rickshaw Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 Anyone know what Adam Foote makes? Ooh he'd look good in a Sabres uni.
Bmwolf21 Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 The Sabres are going nowhere in the playoffs if Miller goes down. Despite his play last night, Biron has been average at best throughout his career and will provide no value to the Sabres in the playoffs wehter it be sitting on the bench or in the nets. I even feel that it is questionable to label Marty as a #1 goalie. What is this based on? Him being the starter for the Sabres for 3 years and they missed the playoffs in all 3 of those years? Get a pick, a couple of picks or a prospect, but move Marty prior to the deadline. Agree 100%. If Miller goes down and misses more than one or two games in the playoffs, Marty isn't going to get the job done, IMO. I'd rather move him, get something in return that can help the team's depth & grit up front, and take my chances with someone like Boucher or Esche - guys who have significant playoff experience, and come at a quarter of Marty's price. Biron's numbers dropped significantly in the "new NHL" and he has had several opportunities to claim the no.1 job here, but has never been able to do it. As I mentioned yesterday, I think he is going to be disappointed if he thinks he is going to get a lot of attention on the FA market. I still don't understand the blind loyalty to Marty. Our $2M backup (who is making more $$ than the starter this year) should be a lot better, a lot more consistent and more reliable than he has been. He should be playing well enough to force Lindy's hand, making Lindy say I've got to get him more starts, and I can rest Ryan more often; and he should be treating every game as an audition for free agency, so teams start lining up to talk with him in the FA period. But I think he has settled into the backup mentality, where he plays just well enough to win and nothing more. Foote would cost us more than Marty - his 06/07 salary is $4.6M - so we would be looking at a Marty/Kotalik or Marty/Hecht combo to make cap space for him.
DWarner Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 The latest from Eklund "Another is Bill Guerin, who is also being looked at by the Preds, Sabres, Sens, and Habs." http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=5147
LabattBlue Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 I strongly disagree with you. First off those non playoff Sabres teams were nothing like the team of the past 2 years and that is not a fair comparison. How about last year when Miller got hurt and Marty backed us to that long winning streak which really set the tone for last years team. Miller worries me. Sorry. Maybe that gets me labled as a heretic around here. I understand he is not going to be like Hasek and steal us 2 points on regular basis, but he lets in too many soft goals late in games lately. Hopefuly this is just phase. Biron is a decent goalie who does not get enough respect around here lately IMO. Sure his save% is low this year but could that that be a result of of his lack of consistent play? Last year when he played on a regular basis he came through big for us. IMO we do not need prospects or picks. We do need solid goaltending, If Miller pulls a Gerber on us, I like knowing we have an expierenced, capable back up. Miller worries me too, but keeping Biron isn't an answer to the problem. Talking about last year perfectly illustrates my point. 7 to 8 years into his career and he is still terribly inconsistent. Last year he was hot and ran off the winning streak. This year average at best, maybe even below average. We'll agree to disagree, but I wouldn't trust Marty as far as I can throw him come playoff time. I've never seen Adam Dennis and I'd be just as comfortable with him backing up Miller as I would with Biron.
jad1 Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 Biron can be moved and a guy like Boucher can be had for relatively cheap. Get some picks for Marty and give one of them up for Boucher. Boucher is 1-10-3 this season, with a 3.27 goals against average and a .88 save percentage. Khabibulan is 16-15-4, with a 2.76 gaa, and a .90 save percentage. I know the Hawks aren't setting the league on fire, but that's a huge drop off from starter to backup. So, keeping in mind that 3 of the final 4 teams in last year's playoffs played thier backup goalies extensively, would you really be comfortable with Boucher backing up Miller during a legitimate Cup run?
rickshaw Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 Boucher's played when the Hawks were decimated with key injuries. Good teams can overcome that, the Hawks cannot. He played well in many of those games but the team just didn't perform for him. They were shutout in 3 consecutive games, so not many goalies win those games. They were also on that big road trip that Chicago always has every year. I'd take Boucher. Not concerned over those numbers at all. Comparing the Sabres to the young Hawks with injuries is not a fair comparison. Four of his losses are by shutout. 8 losses are on the road. 6 losses are by one goal. Nick Khab played when his team was relatively healthy and also when the coaching change took place. Check his record out in his past 10 where the team's new coach phase has ended.
jad1 Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 Bouchers played when the Hawks were decimated with key injuries. Good teams can overcome that, the Hawks cannot. He played well in many of those games but the team just didn't perform for him. They were shutout in 3 consecutive games, so not many goalies win those games. They were also on that big road trip that Chicago always has every year. I'd take Boucher. Not concerned over those numbers at all. Comparing the Sabres to the young Hawks with injuries is not a fair comparison. That's why I compared him to the starter, Khabibulan, who is playing with the same team as Boucher, and as I said, there's a huge dropoff. Even if you take away the three shutouts, he's 1-7-3. And if you can't win on the road, you can't win in the playoffs. And while the Sabres are a better, more experienced team, the style of game they play is not goaltender-friendly. I doubt Boucher's poor numbers would get any better playing on an island for the Sabres.
RayFinkle Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 The same Boucher who choked in the playoffs for Philly? No thanks.
nfreeman Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 The Biron discussion is academic. For all of the reasons mentioned by various posters above, nobody is going to give us anything worthwhile for him. Not gonna happen. He is going to play out the string with us this year and then go to a team that promises him a reasonable shot at the top job. While many of us may think that he's not a #1 NHL goalie, there are at least 15 NHL teams that aren't rock-solid in goal and could potentially give Marty a shot at earning the job. Fortunately, we're not one of them. Based on our roster (including contract status) and Darcy's recent comments, the only trade I can see us making is a forward (either a roster player or a prospect) for a rental defenseman with grit. If Connolly comes back, the player we trade will need to be a roster player b/c of the cap. If he doesn't, we could trade a prospect. The talk of trading Marty for something good has always been and continues to be nonsense.
Knightrider Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 The Sabres are going nowhere in the playoffs if Miller goes down. Despite his play last night, Biron has been average at best throughout his career and will provide no value to the Sabres in the playoffs wehter it be sitting on the bench or in the nets. Let look at stats. For their NHL Careers: Marty and Ryan have identical Sv% at .909. Marty has a slightly better GAA at 2.52 compared to Ryan's 2.71. That, to me, is more than a little misleading, since the rule changes have increased scoring. That leaves last year to compare: Marty played 35 games, won 60% of them, and had a 2.88 GAA and a .905 Sv%. Ryan won 62.5% of his 48 games, and had a 2.7 GAA and a .912 Sv%. The only other stat that might be interesting is their AHL playoff performance: Biron: 13-11 2.47 .925 Miller: 13-13 2.37 .916 Looks like a wash to me. There is a slight drop-off, with Marty, but not enough to base a claim that we're going no where if Ryan goes down on anything other than emotion. Looking at Boucher's stats, he is definitely a downgrade from Biron. If I'm Regier, and I broke the bank in the off-season, I am not going to chance it by dealing Biron as he is a better option than Boucher.
nucci Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 The Sabres seem to be in the same position as Carolina was last year at the deadline (as it turned out the Sabres were in that position last year too. Carolina knew exactly what they needed and got it, even givin up almost nothing for Doug Weight. If the Sabres would have done that, things might have been different in the playoffs. I think we are in the same position this year, except it is not a contract year for Miller so we do not need to keep Biron. This team is practically a defensemen away from the cup and if trading Biron si the way to get there then I am all for it. According to SabresSpace, Biron is a 2.128 cap hit. If we could trabe him for a sturdy 1MM hit defensmen than we have a gain of 1.25 M towards the cap and a shot at going all the way. I would also look at trading Kalinin (2.00M) for someone who is not Kalinin. You can't just throw hypotheticals out there. Who are the 1Mm defensemen out there that could be available?
rickshaw Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 That's why I compared him to the starter, Khabibulan, who is playing with the same team as Boucher, and as I said, there's a huge dropoff. Even if you take away the three shutouts, he's 1-7-3. And if you can't win on the road, you can't win in the playoffs. And while the Sabres are a better, more experienced team, the style of game they play is not goaltender-friendly. I doubt Boucher's poor numbers would get any better playing on an island for the Sabres. Your comparison does not take into affect the team was very injured when Boucher played. Bulin is now looking the same, recordwise over his last 10, on a team much healthier than when Boucher was playing. No matter. Miller will play every game anyway, so why not move Biron, save the money and bring in someone fairly capable? Never EVER should have moved Mika.
buckeyebrian Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 Anyone know what Adam Foote makes? Ooh he'd look good in a Sabres uni. Foote makes $4.5 mil/yr
shrader Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 Miller worries me too, but keeping Biron isn't an answer to the problem. Talking about last year perfectly illustrates my point. 7 to 8 years into his career and he is still terribly inconsistent. Last year he was hot and ran off the winning streak. This year average at best, maybe even below average. We'll agree to disagree, but I wouldn't trust Marty as far as I can throw him come playoff time. I've never seen Adam Dennis and I'd be just as comfortable with him backing up Miller as I would with Biron. Goaltending is not winning us games. Scoring more goals than any other team in the league is winning us games. If Miller were to get hurt, the backup wouldn't need to step up and steal games. All you really need is someone who can step in and maybe steal the random game where the team lays an egg. Marty is capable of that, but can we say the same thing about any of these potential names being thrown around? Adamn Dennis and his 0 NHL experience shouldn't even enter into the discussion.
Larry Playfair Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 pretty good numbers: http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&pa...layerId=8456464 do we need another forward? The latest from Eklund "Another is Bill Guerin, who is also being looked at by the Preds, Sabres, Sens, and Habs." http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=5147
jad1 Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 Your comparison does not take into affect the team was very injured when Boucher played. Bulin is now looking the same, recordwise over his last 10, on a team much healthier than when Boucher was playing. No matter. Miller will play every game anyway, so why not move Biron, save the money and bring in someone fairly capable? Never EVER should have moved Mika. Let's see, Biron has won 30 games the last two years, has beaten Carolina, Ottawa, and Montreal on the road. Is a valued member of the team, and knows the Sabres system. From what you claim, Boucher is a great goalie if nobody on the team is injured, and the team doesn't have to play on the road. 3 of the final 4 teams in last year's playoffs used their backup goalies. The two goalies in the finals started the playoffs as backups. Anyway, Biron isn't going anywhere. Regier isn't going to gamble the money saved on his contract against the season on a guy like Boucher.
Kristian Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 So, keeping in mind that 3 of the final 4 teams in last year's playoffs played thier backup goalies extensively, would you really be comfortable with Boucher backing up Miller during a legitimate Cup run? Yes, quite simply because we were the one team NOT to play their backup. Barring injury, Miller is the real deal. He'll stop what he needs to stop, the question is - Can we score enough? Truth be told, I'm a lot more worried about the creampuffs in front of him.
ko12010 Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 Yes, quite simply because we were the one team NOT to play their backup. Barring injury, Miller is the real deal. He'll stop what he needs to stop, the question is - Can we score enough? Truth be told, I'm a lot more worried about the creampuffs in front of him. yah, their real creampuffs.
Bmwolf21 Posted January 31, 2007 Report Posted January 31, 2007 yah, their real creampuffs. How many of the Sabres' "tough guys" will play regularly in the playoffs and strike any sort of physical fear in their opponents? Mair, Gaustad...anyone else? Our forwards & defensemen are littered with finesse, skill (read: soft/"creampuff") type players. ------ And the Miller crap has to stop. He will be fine in the playoffs. He's also NOT going to give it all up to play in a band, smoke the ganja with Ricky Williams, or follow some punk band around on the road. He was fine last year, for the most part, aside from a couple bad goals here & there, which all goalies go through from time to time. Aside from a fluke injury last year, he's been generally healthy and he isn't some sort of head case that can't handle the pressure. Come playoff time, Lindy will find some button to push to light his fire, and he'll get hot, trying to prove that last year wasn't a fluke. All I am saying is Biron is an awfully expensive insurance policy for the playoffs, especially when the team has other needs that they can't fill, due to the salary cap.
kingcongkorab Posted February 1, 2007 Report Posted February 1, 2007 I agree with you about biron, but you seriously sound like an idiot when you talk about Miller. Head Case? Where do you get that? All goalies have to go through phases in terms of developing supreme confidence, but he is no where near a head case. What are you talking about when you say "if miller pulls a Gerber on us." Did you not watch the playoffs last year? Miller is a prime time goalie and he played phenomenal in the playoffs and was one of the main reasons for the success. Why would you expect any less of him this year. He was a rookie last year and did what he did! As for the soft goals, a lot of it is break downs in the D and he also has more to learn. Also, all the Carolina fans should be down on their knees for Gerber because he was the reason they got to the finals in the first place. In game three when we were about to rout them, undeserving Conn Smythe winner Cam Ward gets pulled and Gerber steps in and stops a Grier breakaway about 20 seconds later. I believe he shut us out in game four and only got pulled in game five because of some good goals by us. Point is Gerber did not deserve to be treated like he did, because we would have won in 5 games if not for him. He swung that series plain and simple. Also, how do you know Miller will not be the next Hasek? He is only a second year starter in this league and is only 26. He may not be Hasek now but he has "stolen" us 2 points many times already in his career and especially this year. Please watch the actual games before you comment on Ryan Miller. It didn't take long for the name calling did it? Try reading this in depth article from the Buffalo News which talks about concerns about Millers pshyce and how he is his own worst enemy. I have to wonder if you watched hockey last year with some of your comments. Gerber collapsed near the end of last season and almost got Carolina eliminated from the playoffs. He lost the first 2 home playoff games and was pulled for Cam Ward. I live in NC and belive me no one here is on their knees for him. I do not think Ottawa fans are either. Miller was brilliant in last years playoffs, especially against Ottawa, but this year he does not even crack the top 10 in GAA or Save%. My point is that goalies can go bad, just liker Gerber last year and struggle to regain form. Miller is struggling now (or haven't you seen him play the last month?) and that is why he is being "rested" (benched?) for a couple of games. My whole point is that we are fortunate that we have an experienced, capable backup, should we need to call on him for whatever reason. With a team built to contend for the cup this year, trading Biron for picks and prospects, or for a cheaper and perhaps less capable player would be absurd. The time to trade Marty was in the offseason. He is not going anywhere now.
Kristian Posted February 1, 2007 Report Posted February 1, 2007 Miller was brilliant in last years playoffs, especially against Ottawa, but this year he does not even crack the top 10 in GAA or Save%. Millers numbers : 2005-2006 : GAA 2.60 SV% .914 2006-2007 : GAA 2.70 SV% .912 The difference there isn't quite enough to make me nervous yet. Does this mean he can't have a meltdown in the playoffs? Of course not. But Miller having a meltdown AND Marty catching fire at the same time just isn't likely to happen IMHO, so why keep Marty around with that salary of his? Like I said in another post, I'm a lot more worried about our skaters. They're the ones losing us games this year, not our goaltenders.
jad1 Posted February 1, 2007 Report Posted February 1, 2007 Yes, quite simply because we were the one team NOT to play their backup. So that means that Miller's guaranteed not to be injured in the playoffs this year? Barring injury, Miller is the real deal. He'll stop what he needs to stop, the question is - Can we score enough? Truth be told, I'm a lot more worried about the creampuffs in front of him. No doubt Miller is the real deal. I don't believe he's injury prone either, but if he does go down, I'd like to believe that the season doesn't automatically end because we have a bargain basement goalie in net. As for the creampuffs argument, let's all understand that there's a huge difference in intensity level of a January game and a playoff game. The majority of players on this team proved in last year's playoffs that they were not 'creampuffs.' I wouldn't call players like Roy, Campbell, Tallinder, Briere, Hecht, and Pomminstein intimidators, but they are completely capable of playing with a tenacity and intensity that will always be more valuable than a rent-a-player knuckle dragger.
Bmwolf21 Posted February 1, 2007 Report Posted February 1, 2007 I wouldn't call players like Roy, Campbell, Tallinder, Briere, Hecht, and Pomminstein intimidators, but they are completely capable of playing with a tenacity and intensity that will always be more valuable than a rent-a-player knuckle dragger. So you think that Roy, Briere and Pommer are just as intimidating and tenacious as someone like Guerin, Foote, Sean Hill, etc? Although most of us realize that the team is not tough/gritty/physical enough, I don't think any of us are advocating bringing guys on that have no skill. We don't want "knuckle draggers" - we want guys who play physical and can skate with our speed guys.
Kristian Posted February 1, 2007 Report Posted February 1, 2007 So that means that Miller's guaranteed not to be injured in the playoffs this year? No doubt Miller is the real deal. I don't believe he's injury prone either, but if he does go down, I'd like to believe that the season doesn't automatically end because we have a bargain basement goalie in net. As for the creampuffs argument, let's all understand that there's a huge difference in intensity level of a January game and a playoff game. The majority of players on this team proved in last year's playoffs that they were not 'creampuffs.' I wouldn't call players like Roy, Campbell, Tallinder, Briere, Hecht, and Pomminstein intimidators, but they are completely capable of playing with a tenacity and intensity that will always be more valuable than a rent-a-player knuckle dragger. In the case of injury we're most likely screwed either way, cause there is no way Marty plays well enough for us to win, unless we score 4 a night. I'm pretty sure we can get goaltending like that way cheaper than 2 million. Which is my only real gripe with him. His salary. A waste of cash on a cap strained team. They proved they weren't creampuffs? Let's recap here. We skated circles around The Cryers when we wanted to, but we pretty much got bullied around by The Sens and later The Canes physically. That was WITH Grier and McKee in the lineup, I hate to think what will happen WITHOUT them in a tough 7 game series against a team that CAN and DOES play physical. To add further insult to injury, the effort was very rarely lacking last season. This season it's been lacking since mid October. This may be the same players, but this is a very different team. Confidence levels are way higher, and many players on this team apparently aren't experienced or mature enough to handle it. I don't want a knuckle dragger here, we already have one too many of those. However, I would like a player who doesn't mind finishing a check once in a while, as opposed to a player who ends up in his own bench because he's off-balance from trying to AVOID a check, though.
jad1 Posted February 1, 2007 Report Posted February 1, 2007 In the case of injury we're most likely screwed either way, cause there is no way Marty plays well enough for us to win, unless we score 4 a night. I'm pretty sure we can get goaltending like that way cheaper than 2 million. Which is my only real gripe with him. His salary. A waste of cash on a cap strained team. Regardless of what we think, or how we spin it, Biron has 30 wins for the Sabres as a backup the last two seasons. The goal of this team shouldn't be to throw up their hands if the starting goalie goes down. They should do everything they can to put in a backup that gives them a fighting chance. Biron's record and experience with the team makes him the best candidate for the job, and so Regier will not move him. They proved they weren't creampuffs? Let's recap here. We skated circles around The Cryers when we wanted to, but we pretty much got bullied around by The Sens and later The Canes physically. That was WITH Grier and McKee in the lineup, I hate to think what will happen WITHOUT them in a tough 7 game series against a team that CAN and DOES play physical. Kind of a slanted representation here, and one I really don't accept. The Senators bullied the Sabres? Okay, but they lost the series by 3 games. I guess I don't define toughness as throwing a rabbit punch into a guys head after he knocks you into the bench. Toughness is coming back time after time to win a game 7-6 in the opponents rink. Toughness is grinding out 1 goal wins on the road. Toughness is being 20 minutes away from winning the ECF on the road, even though you're missing your top 4 defensemen. To add further insult to injury, the effort was very rarely lacking last season. This season it's been lacking since mid October. This may be the same players, but this is a very different team. Confidence levels are way higher, and many players on this team apparently aren't experienced or mature enough to handle it. Well you're flat-out wrong here. Last year, even with the vaunted McKee and Grier in the lineup, the Sabres suffered 3 slumps. One in October, January, and March. If you compare last year's team on February 1st to this year's team, this year's team is better at this time of the year. I don't want a knuckle dragger here, we already have one too many of those. However, I would like a player who doesn't mind finishing a check once in a while, as opposed to a player who ends up in his own bench because he's off-balance from trying to AVOID a check, though. So the Sabres should skate around looking to get hit? In the neutral zone? I'd rather have a player who looks to retailiate on the scoreboard. The current Sabres are perfectly capable of doing that. So you think that Roy, Briere and Pommer are just as intimidating and tenacious as someone like Guerin, Foote, Sean Hill, etc? Although most of us realize that the team is not tough/gritty/physical enough, I don't think any of us are advocating bringing guys on that have no skill. We don't want "knuckle draggers" - we want guys who play physical and can skate with our speed guys. I don't know, who was on the ice when the Sabres knocked the Senators out of the playoffs with a short-handed, overtime goal? How'd Guerin and Hill do in the playoffs last season?
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