Paetsch staying in lineup?

[inkman]

Linky

 

I like the idea of keeping Paetsch in the lineup but I really don't like the idea dressing 7 D-men. I know Lindy was floating out the idea of playing Nate on the 4th as a forward and then using him on the PP but I'd rather have Paetsch take a regular shift as a defenseman.

[Bmwolf21]

I agree. He needs to keep taking a regular D shift in order to keep developing his game. And by dressing "only" 6 defensemen, Lindy can reinforce the idea that ice time is earned, not given, and at the same time rotate some guys out so they get a little of a break - Teppo, Dmitri, Soupy...

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

rotate some guys out so they get a little of a break - Teppo, Dmitri, Soupy...

 

or a benching... put Kalinin on the bench. He's such a head case and needs a wakeup call. Then get him back in the lineup, he'll start to play better, and then trade him... so easy.

 

I've been impressed with Paetsch's play. He's come a long way since last season/early this season.

[BuffalOhio]

or a benching... put Kalinin on the bench. He's such a head case and needs a wakeup call. Then get him back in the lineup, he'll start to play better, and then trade him... so easy.

 

I've been impressed with Paetsch's play. He's come a long way since last season/early this season.

 

 

I fully agree! Go Patch, er Pash, er Paytch! Why can't announcers get names right? C'mon!

[Samson's Flow]

or a benching... put Kalinin on the bench. He's such a head case and needs a wakeup call. Then get him back in the lineup, he'll start to play better, and then trade him... so easy.

 

i dont think we'd get much value for kalinin the way hes been playing. but it does get rid of a hefty salary (something like 1.75 this year) :w00t:

[nfreeman]

I don't think anyone said that supporting Paetsch was stupid. I, and others, disagreed with benching/trading Kalinin on the basis of a few glaring mistakes (like the giveaway that resulted in the 1st goal of I believe the boston game).

 

I agree that Paetsch continues to improve and look like a legit NHL defenseman. This of course is a great thing for our team, since we'll need as much depth as possible to make another deep playoff run. Same goes for his effectiveness on the PP -- this is a great thing for our team.

 

However, it doesn't automatically follow that Kalinin should be or is going to be benched or traded. Bottom line is that Lindy has been playing Kalinin 19-21 min. per night, which is the best indicator of how Lindy feels about Kalinin's play. Another good indicator for Kalinin is that Lindy is talking about dressing 7 defensemen (and not benching a defenseman) in order to keep Paetsch in the lineup.

 

I am unhappy about our January too. I just think it's too easy to scapegoat a guy like Kalinin (or Kotalik for that matter) for what is a team-wide problem. I also think we played pretty well, and definitely well enough to win, our last 2 games, but were let down by lousy goaltending in the 3rd period. We might remember that Miller's worst stretch of last season occurred right after the all-star break.

 

This team doesn't quit. We will bear down and work our way out of this rut.

[Mr.Christopher]

Paetsch deserves to stay in the lineup. I would rather have him play on defense. Maybe they could rotate some of the defensemen so Paetsch gets time at defense and on the wing.

[Bmwolf21]

I don't think anyone said that supporting Paetsch was stupid. I, and others, disagreed with benching/trading Kalinin on the basis of a few glaring mistakes (like the giveaway that resulted in the 1st goal of I believe the boston game).

 

I agree that Paetsch continues to improve and look like a legit NHL defenseman. This of course is a great thing for our team, since we'll need as much depth as possible to make another deep playoff run. Same goes for his effectiveness on the PP -- this is a great thing for our team.

 

However, it doesn't automatically follow that Kalinin should be or is going to be benched or traded. Bottom line is that Lindy has been playing Kalinin 19-21 min. per night, which is the best indicator of how Lindy feels about Kalinin's play. Another good indicator for Kalinin is that Lindy is talking about dressing 7 defensemen (and not benching a defenseman) in order to keep Paetsch in the lineup.

I wouldn't use ice time as any indicator of anything good for Dmitri - he is averaging the lowest TOI per game (19:50) outside of Paetsch (13:48.)(LINK)

 

I think the best indicator of how Lindy feels is what he told the Buffalo News before the All-Star break, where he talks about Dmitri's inconsistency and his focus:

(LINK)

This season Kalinin, who has played all 49 games heading into this week's All-Star break, is n pace to finish with five goals and 22 assists for the NHL's highest-scoring club. He's averaging under 20 minutes a game, more than three minutes below what he averaged in 2003-04.

 

"I think he's been hot and cold," Sabres coach Lindy Ruff said. "I think he's had real good stretches where he's played well. I think his recent games he's been into mishandling pucks and careless giveaways."

 

Kalinin, who signed a two-year contract in August, is making $1.75 million this season. That's $500,000 more than All-Star Brian Campbell and $150,000 more than Henrik Tallinder.

 

The 18th overall pick in the 1998 draft has been used on the power play recently. "It's great to play out there and feeling the trust of everybody on the team and the coaches," Kalinin said. But he's endured offensive struggles. He has one goal in his last 42 games, including a 34-game blight. Twice he has gone seven games without a point.

"As a coach you look in a lot of directions," Ruff said of dealing with Kalinin's ups and downs. "Some of it maybe is off-ice preparation. There's a lot that goes into that. There's the mental. There's the hour and a half before the game, getting ready to play. Sometimes that little lack of focus leads to, in Dmitri's case, a slow start in games.

 

When Dmitri is playing well, he is as good as any defenseman in our lineup (or in most lineups in the league, for that matter) and deserves all the ice time we can give him. But when he's playing poorly, I'd rather see Paetsch or Card or Funk on the ice, so they can at least get the game experience and make the same type of mistakes. It's just so frustrating to watch him make the type of mistakes he makes in his 7th NHL season, especially when he is the 2nd highest-paid defenseman and most-tenured D on the roster (time with the Sabres.) I just don't know how long to wait for him to fully develop into the steady defenseman we know he has the potential to be.

[Samson's Flow]

having paetsch playing well is a good problem to have imo. i think we all remember what happened last year when we needed d-men. i may be one of the few people that think kalinin will work out his problems and get back to playing the way he used to, so lets not do anything rash...

 

maybe spelling teppo would help him to not look so old and tired. just a thought :o

[nfreeman]

I wouldn't use ice time as any indicator of anything good for Dmitri - he is averaging the lowest TOI per game (19:50) outside of Paetsch (13:48.)(LINK)

 

I think the best indicator of how Lindy feels is what he told the Buffalo News before the All-Star break, where he talks about Dmitri's inconsistency and his focus:

(LINK)

When Dmitri is playing well, he is as good as any defenseman in our lineup (or in most lineups in the league, for that matter) and deserves all the ice time we can give him. But when he's playing poorly, I'd rather see Paetsch or Card or Funk on the ice, so they can at least get the game experience and make the same type of mistakes. It's just so frustrating to watch him make the type of mistakes he makes in his 7th NHL season, especially when he is the 2nd highest-paid defenseman and most-tenured D on the roster (time with the Sabres.) I just don't know how long to wait for him to fully develop into the steady defenseman we know he has the potential to be.

 

Good points, Bmwolf. In response:

 

1. Although you are correct that he ranks #6 in average ice time, he's only 56 seconds per game behind #3 -- so it's fair to say that #s 3, 4, 5 and 6 are all averaging pretty close to an equal amount of ice time.

 

2. Campbell's ice time is inflated b/c when Tallinder and Lydman were both out, Campbell was playing 30 min. per night. My point is that Lindy likes to play his top 6 all more or less the same amount of time, with Tallinder and Lydman maybe a little above average. Dmitri wouldn't be getting the ice time he gets if Lindy were really dissatisfied with his play.

 

3. As to the quotes, and your points, about Kalinin's inconsistency: I can't dispute these. However, I will point out that Dmitri is only 26, a full 14 months younger than Campbell. Campbell didn't turn into a legit NHL defenseman until last year. I'm certainly glad we hung with him, and I suspect you are too.

 

4. Kalinin is just entering his prime. I too would like to see more out of him, but I think he's been a pretty solid (although not great) player this year, and I think it would be crazy to dump him in a trade right now. If you want to bench him for a game or 2 in order to send a message, fine, but these decisions have to be made by the guys inside the locker room who really understand the psychology involved. I don't think he's played markedly any better or worse than any of our other defensemen lately.

 

Just my opinion.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I fully agree! Go Patch, er Pash, er Paytch! Why can't announcers get names right? C'mon!

 

Ya, how nauseating were the Isles announcers? It was like two dopes sitting at a bar telling stories and suddenly a hockey game broke out. Nothing is worse than listening to them and watching your team play in Nassau Coliseum... ugh.

 

The all around bonus to dressing Paetsch as a 7th D-man is that most likely Petey will be up in the press box.

[Doohicksie]

As much as I get on Kalinin as a D-man, I would love to see Lindy put him up on the forward line. He's not the best "last man back" passer, but he does have some good puck handling skills and seems comfortable going to the net. I'd make him a fourth line forward, at least as an experiment.

[Bmwolf21]

1. Although you are correct that he ranks #6 in average ice time, he's only 56 seconds per game behind #3 -- so it's fair to say that #s 3, 4, 5 and 6 are all averaging pretty close to an equal amount of ice time.

No argument here. I think it is telling, however, that with all the talent we have on our blueline, we are relying way too much on a 36-year-old defenseman with a history of heart problems. He's getting way too much ice time, IMO, and I think that is a direct result of Lindy not being totally comfortable with the play of most of his defenseman, Kalinin included.

 

2. Campbell's ice time is inflated b/c when Tallinder and Lydman were both out, Campbell was playing 30 min. per night. My point is that Lindy likes to play his top 6 all more or less the same amount of time, with Tallinder and Lydman maybe a little above average. Dmitri wouldn't be getting the ice time he gets if Lindy were really dissatisfied with his play.

With Tallinder out, it was a huge chance for guys like Kalinin and Campbell to jump up and grab more ice time and become more of a leader out there - Campbell has done it, while Dmitri has struggled to establish any sort of consistency.

 

One other note on the ice time - Teppo, Dmitri and Lydman are the clear-cut leaders in SH ice time (excluding Hank's 16 GP) and the unit is ranked 21st in the league. Since it is a group of forwards considered to be more than reliable in their own end (Drury, Hecht, Roy, Pommer and Gaustad) are the PK woes the result of having too many defenseman on the PK who avoid physical play, and don't block enough shots?

 

3. As to the quotes, and your points, about Kalinin's inconsistency: I can't dispute these. However, I will point out that Dmitri is only 26, a full 14 months younger than Campbell. Campbell didn't turn into a legit NHL defenseman until last year. I'm certainly glad we hung with him, and I suspect you are too.

The main difference is that last year was Campbell's 4th full season with the big club, while Dmitri is in his 6th full season (I excluded the partial-season callups for both.) If he hasn't picked it up or gotten it together by now, he might not ever do it.

 

And I am glad we were patient with Campbell, but if moving Dmitri means we get the big winger or physical defenseman that gets us over the top, then I'll drive Dmitri to the airport myself.

 

4. Kalinin is just entering his prime. I too would like to see more out of him, but I think he's been a pretty solid (although not great) player this year, and I think it would be crazy to dump him in a trade right now. If you want to bench him for a game or 2 in order to send a message, fine, but these decisions have to be made by the guys inside the locker room who really understand the psychology involved. I don't think he's played markedly any better or worse than any of our other defensemen lately.

Considering the makeup of the d-corps, I think he is the most likely to be traded, simply because he has the most value (reasonable salary, NHL & playoff experience, good skills) and has been the most inconsistent player of them all. Spacek (salary) Teppo (age + salary) and Lydman (just not as valued as Kalinin or a prospect, IMO) wouldn't net us nearly as much in return; and Campbell & Tallinder are untouchable, IMO.

[Goodfella25]

I fully agree! Go Patch, er Pash, er Paytch! Why can't announcers get names right? C'mon!

 

Hahah even Rick J. can't seem to get Spacek down correctly..he says "Spachuck" when it's "Spacheck." Close but no cigar :D

 

Anyway, I like Paetsch's game as of late and I wouldn't mind seeing him in there over, say, Kalinin, or to spell Numminen from time to time since he seems to be showing his age lately. I was really down on Paetsch but I am starting to like the way he's playing and wouldn't mind seeing more of him. Although we still need to pick up a defenseman :wallbash:

[inkman]

Hahah even Rick J. can't seem to get Spacek down correctly..he says "Spachuck" when it's "Spacheck." Close but no cigar :D

He seems to want to make him Canadian, with all the "chuk" brothers. Hawerchuk, Andreychuk, etc. :lol:

[DWarner]

The announcers of the Toronto game I listened to on XM kept calling him "Patch."

[Bmwolf21]

I fully agree! Go Patch, er Pash, er Paytch! Why can't announcers get names right? C'mon!

Don't get me started on opposing announcers...the Bruins' guys seem to deliberately mispronounce names, just to piss us off. Guhs-tad?

[Hawerchuk]

I like Paetsch alot. He is very solid and skates great. Put him on wing, put him on PP, who cares just play the guy. Look no further than to bench Peters. The guy does ZERO out there. Yeah, he fights, but who really gives a #%^$#!. Nate is 100xs better than Andro.

[nfreeman]

No argument here. I think it is telling, however, that with all the talent we have on our blueline, we are relying way too much on a 36-year-old defenseman with a history of heart problems. He's getting way too much ice time, IMO, and I think that is a direct result of Lindy not being totally comfortable with the play of most of his defenseman, Kalinin included.

 

With Tallinder out, it was a huge chance for guys like Kalinin and Campbell to jump up and grab more ice time and become more of a leader out there - Campbell has done it, while Dmitri has struggled to establish any sort of consistency.

I also would prefer Teppo to be playing less. However, I don't agree with other posters who have said he looks old and slow -- he looks fine to me.

 

I also agree with what I think your main point is on the ice time -- ie Kalinin has had multiple chances, including this year, to seize a leading role, play 25+ minutes, and just step up and be a major force out there. He hasn't done so and this is disappointing. All I'm saying is that just b/c he hasn't stepped up like Campbell has doesn't mean he hasn't been a pretty solid defenseman overall. I think he has, and I think Lindy thinks he has.

One other note on the ice time - Teppo, Dmitri and Lydman are the clear-cut leaders in SH ice time (excluding Hank's 16 GP) and the unit is ranked 21st in the league. Since it is a group of forwards considered to be more than reliable in their own end (Drury, Hecht, Roy, Pommer and Gaustad) are the PK woes the result of having too many defenseman on the PK who avoid physical play, and don't block enough shots?

I think we have to remember that 3 of our top 4 penalty killers from last year (Tallinder, Connolly and Grier) haven't been there this year. While Roy, Pommer and Gaustad are decent at this role, I think the 3 that are missing were significantly better.

The main difference is that last year was Campbell's 4th full season with the big club, while Dmitri is in his 6th full season (I excluded the partial-season callups for both.) If he hasn't picked it up or gotten it together by now, he might not ever do it.

True, he might not. But 26 is 26. And he was probably rushed into NHL service before he was ready b/c we really sucked after Dominik left. Who among us was solid as a rock at age 26?

And I am glad we were patient with Campbell, but if moving Dmitri means we get the big winger or physical defenseman that gets us over the top, then I'll drive Dmitri to the airport myself.

 

Considering the makeup of the d-corps, I think he is the most likely to be traded, simply because he has the most value (reasonable salary, NHL & playoff experience, good skills) and has been the most inconsistent player of them all. Spacek (salary) Teppo (age + salary) and Lydman (just not as valued as Kalinin or a prospect, IMO) wouldn't net us nearly as much in return; and Campbell & Tallinder are untouchable, IMO.

And if it's the right guy we get back, I'll fill up the car for you.

[Bmwolf21]

I also would prefer Teppo to be playing less. However, I don't agree with other posters who have said he looks old and slow -- he looks fine to me.

I think his overall play has been OK, but there have been some noticeable instances where he has been a step late or gotten beat to pucks he used to get to. He certainly can't keep a 23 minutes/game pace up for the rest of the regular season and through the playoffs.

 

I also agree with what I think your main point is on the ice time -- ie Kalinin has had multiple chances, including this year, to seize a leading role, play 25+ minutes, and just step up and be a major force out there. He hasn't done so and this is disappointing. All I'm saying is that just b/c he hasn't stepped up like Campbell has doesn't mean he hasn't been a pretty solid defenseman overall. I think he has, and I think Lindy thinks he has.

I don't think he's a bad defenseman, but I just don't know how much longer we can wait for him to get his act together, figure out the mental side, whatever.

 

I think we have to remember that 3 of our top 4 penalty killers from last year (Tallinder, Connolly and Grier) haven't been there this year. While Roy, Pommer and Gaustad are decent at this role, I think the 3 that are missing were significantly better.

You forgot McKee, who was a huge part of the PK. Anyway I think Hank being hurt, and Lydman not playing the same without him, has pressed Teppo & Dmitri into roles they aren't comfortable with (especially on the PK) so maybe we need to look at someone else when we are shorthanded.

 

True, he might not. But 26 is 26. And he was probably rushed into NHL service before he was ready b/c we really sucked after Dominik left. Who among us was solid as a rock at age 26?

I guess I would ask who among us has had nearly six years of on-the-job training and a salary of nearly $2M at age 26?

And if it's the right guy we get back, I'll fill up the car for you.

My truck has a 24-gallon tank, so it gets a little pricey... :thumbsup:

 

I think we could go back and forth and eventually come to the same conclusion - that he is a good defenseman who could use some edge, consistency and focus to his game, but he could be quite valuable in the trade market. The question is whether the team is better off by holding onto him or trading him to address the team's other needs.

[Samson's Flow]

I think we could go back and forth and eventually come to the same conclusion - that he is a good defenseman who could use some edge, consistency and focus to his game, but he could be quite valuable in the trade market. The question is whether the team is better off by holding onto him or trading him to address the team's other needs.

 

the answer to that lies in who we get offered in return for his services. if its to land bowmeester then im all for it, but if we get fitzy back then its a no go. (sorry for the extreme examples but you get the point)