Interesting Article on Buffalo

[topshelfcookies]

I moved back to Buffalo, reluctantly, after a few months post-college in Chicago didn't work out. After being home now for 2 years this month I can say that I'm glad I did so.

 

I have a decent job, and am making comparable money to what most of my other friends in their mid-20's are making in various parts of the country, except my cost of living is probably half of what theirs is. For me to rent a beautiful apartment downtown, with off-street parking, and be close to too many restaraunts/clubs to count is still cheaper than renting a crummy apartment in the South side of Chicago or in a run-down area of DC. Plus, the people in Buffalo are more congenial, and I have the opportunity to follow my Bills and Sabres as much as I want.

 

Finally, I feel like since I've been home, over the past 2 years, there has been a groundswell of support for the rebirth of Buffalo. I absolutely hate to hear that Buffalo is dying. It's already bottomed out people! Truth is, Buffalo is slowly, but somewhat steadily turning the corner. Outside investment in city real estate is up, more and more condos/apartment rehabs are occuring, new buildings are being built (the Gas Works building by the 190, UB Medical Campus, etc) and property values within the city are rising.

 

Is Buffalo back to being a thriving city? NOOOOO way! Is it close? Heck no! Is it getting worse? Not in a long shot!

 

I'll close with a hockey analogy.

I feel like in the grand scheme of things, Buffalo has started to finally string some wins together. We still don't get much respect around the league, but people are beginning to realize that there is some potential here, and people that are here, are beginning to do something about it. Will Buffalo make the playoffs this year? Probably not. But 5 years from now, will the city be in position to contend? I think so

[Kevbeau]

I'll second a lot of what Jeff said. Although I bought my house in the Atlanta area when real estate was a deal.

 

Bad part is, my once half hour commute is now an hour each way as he developers continue to rape the land here for a quick buck. Infrastructure? We don't need no stinkin' infrastructure.

 

As for moving back to Buffalo, I toyed with the idea a few years ago and went so far as to interview with a company in the Southtowns. Pretty much the same job description I had then, possibly a little lore responsibility as it ws a smaller operation. I actually made it to the salary negotiations and that's when it all came to a halt. Again, this is just my experience, but the base salary was roughly half of what I made at the time in Atlanta and there really wasn't any bonus stucture to speak of. Again, not saying that's indicitive of the entire WNY region.

 

I've since expanded my work experience and would probably have a few more options if I chose to look now. Girlfriend (Rochestr born and raised) would never go back, so that might be an issue.

[deluca67]

Rayzor -

 

I love the Buffalo area. If I could find a decent job and an affordable house I'd move back in a second. Most of my friends from WNY that live in Charlotte feel the same.

 

Nice to see Willis posting.

 

Sounds like you and your friends are a bunch of quiters.

 

There are decent jobs and tons of affordable housing here in WNY.

 

I know a bunch of people who have moved to the Carolina's just to move back. They said nobody does anything down there except watch Nascar and hang out at the Walmart.

 

Mike Shoop said it best. There is tons to see and do in WNY if you are smart.

 

We may not have the streets lined with clubs Willis McGahee likes with the 50-1 hooker to NFL player ratio. If you have a brain larger than a small woodlands creature you can have a full and eventful life here in WNY.

[SCSabresFan!]

Nice to see Willis posting.

 

Sounds like you and your friends are a bunch of quiters.

 

There are decent jobs and tons of affordable housing here in WNY.

 

I know a bunch of people who have moved to the Carolina's just to move back. They said nobody does anything down there except watch Nascar and hang out at the Walmart.

 

Mike Shoop said it best. There is tons to see and do in WNY if you are smart.

 

We may not have the streets lined with clubs Willis McGahee likes with the 50-1 hooker to NFL player ratio. If you have a brain larger than a small woodlands creature you can have a full and eventful life here in WNY.

 

Nice to see you know me well - jackass. <_<

 

I worked for NASCAR. Many non-southerners are in the sport. Nice stereotype.

 

Please point me to the decent jobs. And I don't mean selling cars in Amherst. I'll check the Buffalo News again.

[mrjsbu96]

I recently read one of those "you know you're from Charlotte if...." lists and one of the items was 'you know you're from Charlotte if you can recognize what part of Buffalo your neighbor is from by his accent the first time you meet"

 

my oversimplified take is this: most people take the path of least resistance (sort of like water)..if you can avoid shoveling snow, high taxes and can get a decent job, you'll do it. It takes a more complex, perhaps masochisitc person to live and thrive in Buffalo. While it sucks that my adopted city has lost thousands of people, I get the feeling we're better off without the majority of them-- those that have stuck it out, returned or recently moved here will be the backbone of the "new buffalo" -- and things really are changing for the better (currently over THREE BILLION DOLLARS in public and private investment in the city alone). Many have left WNY for valid reasons, but good riddance to the others - I won't miss your negativity and unconstructive criticism! Enjoy watching the Predators, Panthers, Thrashers and Hurricanes.

 

 

dude, i love that post. best thing i ever read on here. i don't want to throw everyone in that bucket of taking the path of least resistance, but i'm sure there is a majority that do fall in this category.

 

it seems to be a way of society though today - the path of least resistance. hell, i was a mall this weekend in new jersey that had valet parking....are you sh!tting me? no wonder the savings rate is in negative terroritory and an overwhelming part of the population is overweight! not enough people that want to work hard enough anymore....

 

obligatory hockey part of the thread - anyway, good first half of the season. we are 2nd in the league despite not playing our best hockey the past month or so. i can't wait for the 2nd half!

[SCSabresFan!]

Why do think we quit Buffalo? Because we moved to get a job? Please explain that one.

[Rayzor32]

dude, i love that post. best thing i ever read on here. i don't want to throw everyone in that bucket of taking the path of least resistance, but i'm sure there is a majority that do fall in this category.

 

it seems to be a way of society though today - the path of least resistance. hell, i was a mall this weekend in new jersey that had valet parking....are you sh!tting me? no wonder the savings rate is in negative terroritory and an overwhelming part of the population is overweight! not enough people that want to work hard enough anymore....

 

obligatory hockey part of the thread - anyway, good first half of the season. we are 2nd in the league despite not playing our best hockey the past month or so. i can't wait for the 2nd half!

 

 

I don't want to scare you from moving back, but they just launched valet parking at the Walden Galleria!

 

Here's my (again probably oversimplified) take on the job situation: there are jobs here, but Buffalo is an old-school city where networking is KEY. Most jobs are filled before an ad is placed in the news or on Monster. You need to know people who know people here...good jobs won't beat a path to your door here, but they definitely do exist, and a lot of companies have a hard time filling positions, because they can't get people to move to Buffalo

[SCSabresFan!]

Rayzor - lets agree to disagree. You are right, networking is the key to finding any good job in any field in any part of the world.

[SDS]

There are decent jobs and tons of affordable housing here in WNY.

 

ambiguous terminology does not make for a good argument. "Decent" to you does not mean decent to someone else. After my 1st layoff a couple years ago - I asked TSW what constituted a "good salary" in their minds. The responses ranged from $25k to $200k.... That is a WIDE definition of "good", or should I say "decent".

 

and what does "affordable housing" mean? Does it mean you can make a payment? A payment for what? A condo? A two-story colonial on 5 acres of land in a good school district?

 

The generalizations do not add anything meaningful to the discussion.

[Rayzor32]

Rayzor - lets agree to disagree. You are right, networking is the key to finding any good job in any field in any part of the world.

 

From my experience in larger markets, networking seems to be more important in Buffalo (in the business world anyway, not sure about other fields)

[Knightrider]

ambiguous terminology does not make for a good argument. "Decent" to you does not mean decent to someone else. After my 1st layoff a couple years ago - I asked TSW what constituted a "good salary" in their minds. The responses ranged from $25k to $200k.... That is a WIDE definition of "good", or should I say "decent".

 

and what does "affordable housing" mean? Does it mean you can make a payment? A payment for what? A condo? A two-story colonial on 5 acres of land in a good school district?

 

The generalizations do not add anything meaningful to the discussion.

 

If "affordable housing" includes sales, property and and income taxes, it's flat out wrong. I tried to move back in 2004, only to find that my Boston sized mortgage payment would reallocated to

 

reduced salary,

 

property tax, (MA "country town" prop tax is ~1.2%, NY "country town" prop tax is ~3.75%),

 

sales tax (NY 7%+, MA 5%), and

 

income tax (NY 6.85% (7.375 for >100k), MA is 5% regardless of salary). Throw in stagnant real estate, and after really looking at the numbers, being closer to family just didn't make sense. :(

 

As far as Hillary is concerned, nope, it's not her fault. However, it is her party's fault, and she is not the lower taxes type that NY desperately needs.

[McJeff215]

I'll second a lot of what Jeff said. Although I bought my house in the Atlanta area when real estate was a deal.

 

Bad part is, my once half hour commute is now an hour each way as he developers continue to rape the land here for a quick buck. Infrastructure? We don't need no stinkin' infrastructure.

 

As for moving back to Buffalo, I toyed with the idea a few years ago and went so far as to interview with a company in the Southtowns. Pretty much the same job description I had then, possibly a little lore responsibility as it ws a smaller operation. I actually made it to the salary negotiations and that's when it all came to a halt. Again, this is just my experience, but the base salary was roughly half of what I made at the time in Atlanta and there really wasn't any bonus stucture to speak of. Again, not saying that's indicitive of the entire WNY region.

 

I've since expanded my work experience and would probably have a few more options if I chose to look now. Girlfriend (Rochestr born and raised) would never go back, so that might be an issue.

 

My wife is actually from the Altanta area, although she would move up north for a good opportunity. I've had a few discussions with some shops up there and you're right, salary and bonus structure usually equate to about half of what I'm earning here. However, from what I've heard, benefits such as health insurance are slightly better up there. Cost of living is lower, but taxes are higher. Commute is shorter, but I pay tolls and it's in the snow... the whole thing can be argued back and forth.

 

The other problem I have is that here in Atlanta, the places I work for, their core competancy is IT and computer systems. Contrast that with blue collar towns where IT is a necessary support component to their core business. That equals less opportunity for me personally.

 

All that said, I'd move back in a heartbeat for the right opportunity. It's got to be the *right* one though. I wouldn't move back and take on a tape-backup-changer-guy position just to move back.

 

I keep thinking that it ought to be possible to run some serious on-shore staff augmentation services using Buffalo as a homebase. There's so much cheap real estate up there and the payscales are lower than high-tech locations. Lease an abandoned warehouse, fill it with desks, and handle technical support or some such commonly outsourced piece. It has the added benefit of creating local jobs.

 

-Jeff

[deluca67]

ambiguous terminology does not make for a good argument. "Decent" to you does not mean decent to someone else. After my 1st layoff a couple years ago - I asked TSW what constituted a "good salary" in their minds. The responses ranged from $25k to $200k.... That is a WIDE definition of "good", or should I say "decent".

 

and what does "affordable housing" mean? Does it mean you can make a payment? A payment for what? A condo? A two-story colonial on 5 acres of land in a good school district?

 

The generalizations do not add anything meaningful to the discussion.

 

Decent? Let's sum it up as being able to live a comfortable life with your wife and kids in a nice home. And that can be in what ever range you want it to be. You can find a nice home in the city. A luxury apartment downtown. Or a spacious 5 acre home in one of the surrounding areas. It's all here in WNY if you are willing to work for it.

 

As far as the Jobs go? Read Business First. While some tend to cling to the magic bullets of Bass Pro and a Casino. There is real development going on. It was posted earlier and it's true. There is millions of private dollars being pumped into downtown businesses and apartments. New Era is opening shop in the old Federal Resever and if you look at the website they have jobs listed, well paying jobs. The medical corridor is adding well paying specialty jobs every day as it grows and grows. GM is pumping $10,000,000 in to the plant in Tonawanda.

 

It's here. You just have to take the blinders off.

[deluca67]

Why do think we quit Buffalo? Because we moved to get a job? Please explain that one.

 

You quit like Doug Gilmour against the Pens in game 7.

 

There are jobs here. Maybe not for the hillbilly merry-go-round you call NASCAR. But there are jobs.

From the food service industry to high paying medical specialist and all points in between. I should say if

the person is qualified.

 

I have found in the past that most people who complain that there are no jobs tend to be those without the college degree or if they have one it's a degree in nothing useful.

 

And you are a quiter. There are those who stay and fight to make their homes a better place. And those who run off to what they think are greener pastures. Good for those people and good for you.

 

Let me put it in sports terms. You left the field of play before the game was over. You took your ball and you left your teammates to carry on without you. Good job Doug. ;)

[SCSabresFan!]

You quit like Doug Gilmour against the Pens in game 7.

 

There are jobs here. Maybe not for the hillbilly merry-go-round you call NASCAR. But there are jobs.

From the food service industry to high paying medical specialist and all points in between. I should say if

the person is qualified.

 

I have found in the past that most people who complain that there are no jobs tend to be those without the college degree or if they have one it's a degree in nothing useful.

 

And you are a quiter. There are those who stay and fight to make their homes a better place. And those who run off to what they think are greener pastures. Good for those people and good for you.

 

Let me put it in sports terms. You left the field of play before the game was over. You took your ball and you left your teammates to carry on without you. Good job Doug. ;)

 

Aren't you the same genius who thought the Bills were better off with Kelly Holcomb behind center over at TBD? You seem to be an expert on everything. A modern day Stephen A Smith. Ignoring the fact you have no idea what you are talking about, but yelling anyway.

 

I hope in my next visit back you'll be taking my food order. ;)

[SDS]

I have found in the past that most people who complain that there are no jobs tend to be those without the college degree or if they have one it's a degree in nothing useful.

 

I have a B.S. and M.S. in Optics and develop next generation optical encryptors for the secure communication of financial, medical, and military data. In my previous job, I developed biological triggers for real time detection of anthrax and other bio-aerosols...

 

of course, your "findings" are about as absurd as they come. College grads are fleeing left and right after graduation. They cite the lack of jobs, but don't let stop you from making crap up. Not that anything really stops you from your daily fact free rant...

[Knightrider]

 

I have found in the past that most people who complain that there are no jobs tend to be those without the college degree or if they have one it's a degree in nothing useful.

 

 

My degrees are BSEE SUNY Buffalo, MSEE UMASS Amherst. Last time I checked electrical engineering was useful. Maybe not as useful as New Era or Geico, but hey... Graduated Summa Laude from UB. Couldn't find a job in WNY though. Company in Massachusetts gave me a full ride plus half salary to get my Masters. As for the medical "industry", it may be a high tech industry, but it is not driven by market forces.

[HurlyBurly51]

Nice to see Willis posting.

 

Sounds like you and your friends are a bunch of quiters.

 

There are decent jobs and tons of affordable housing here in WNY.

 

I know a bunch of people who have moved to the Carolina's just to move back. They said nobody does anything down there except watch Nascar and hang out at the Walmart.

 

Mike Shoop said it best. There is tons to see and do in WNY if you are smart.

 

We may not have the streets lined with clubs Willis McGahee likes with the 50-1 hooker to NFL player ratio. If you have a brain larger than a small woodlands creature you can have a full and eventful life here in WNY.

 

Ahh, winning friends and influencing people wherever you go :doh:

[Sweet Baboo]

I have found in the past that most people who complain that there are no jobs tend to be those without the college degree or if they have one it's a degree in nothing useful.

BS and MS in Chemical Engineering from UB

PhD in Chemical Engineering from UR

 

I was hellbent on staying in WNY. My wife who's originally from Jersey also wanted to stay, but there weren't any jobs. All I did was look for jobs in WNY and didn't get a single bite. After 9 months of futile searching, I sent some resumes out of state and got offers right away.

 

Fast forward to the present: I live in NH, have a high paying job, pay no state income taxes or sales tax. I miss the hell out of the Bills, Sabres and Buffalo food but do not miss inept NY politicians and high NYS taxes. Yeah, housing is cheap in WNY but the taxes are ridiculous! I pay nearly the same amount in taxes on my NH home which cost 3x as much as I did for my Rochester home.

 

All that said, if there's a job for me in WNY in the future, I'd love to return.

[Two or less]

It's simple.

 

The money is better down south and majority of the people who move down get good jobs or get quick promotions because western nyers are blue collar, hard working.... so we do good work and we work hard... unlike our friends down south. Lazy b@stards.

[SCSabresFan!]

I have a B.S. and M.S. in Optics and develop next generation optical encryptors for the secure communication of financial, medical, and military data. In my previous job, I developed biological triggers for real time detection of anthrax and other bio-aerosols...

 

of course, your "findings" are about as absurd as they come. College grads are fleeing left and right after graduation. They cite the lack of jobs, but don't let stop you from making crap up. Not that anything really stops you from your daily fact free rant...

 

 

That's pretty smart...

 

BS and MS in Chemical Engineering from UB

PhD in Chemical Engineering from UR

 

 

He's no dummy either...

[inkman]

I have a BS in BS. :unsure:

[Kevbeau]

I have a BS in BS. :unsure:

 

Sometimes that's the BS to have.

[SDS]

BS and MS in Chemical Engineering from UB

PhD in Chemical Engineering from UR

 

I was hellbent on staying in WNY. My wife who's originally from Jersey also wanted to stay, but there weren't any jobs. All I did was look for jobs in WNY and didn't get a single bite. After 9 months of futile searching, I sent some resumes out of state and got offers right away.

 

Fast forward to the present: I live in NH, have a high paying job, pay no state income taxes or sales tax. I miss the hell out of the Bills, Sabres and Buffalo food but do not miss inept NY politicians and high NYS taxes. Yeah, housing is cheap in WNY but the taxes are ridiculous! I pay nearly the same amount in taxes on my NH home which cost 3x as much as I did for my Rochester home.

 

All that said, if there's a job for me in WNY in the future, I'd love to return.

 

 

Ahhh... a fellow alum. We are UR! :beer:

[X. Benedict]

Ahhh... a fellow alum. We are UR! :beer:

 

Garbage Plates all around.

 

I moved back to WNY in 2002.

 

Net salary loss: $40,000 per year

Years I'll probably add to my life: 10-15