Briere/Drury Update

[X. Benedict]

Close. Flip 2 and 3 and you have it.

Yep.

 

It is from the goal out.

Just look at the multi year contracts.

[jad1]

Yep.

 

It is from the goal out.

Just look at the multi year contracts.

 

Not sure I agree. A concussed Connolly got a bigger contract than Tallinder and Campbell. Would they have signed Lydman if his prognosis was the same as Connolly's last year? I'll bet that it will be a long time before the Sabres pay $4 million for a defenseman. Right now, they would probably gladly sign Drury for $5 million a year.

 

It's close, but the centers create mismatches, which results in wins. I think Regier recognizes that.

[Taro T]

Not sure I agree. A concussed Connolly got a bigger contract than Tallinder and Campbell. Would they have signed Lydman if his prognosis was the same as Connolly's last year? I'll bet that it will be a long time before the Sabres pay $4 million for a defenseman. Right now, they would probably gladly sign Drury for $5 million a year.

 

It's close, but the centers create mismatches, which results in wins. I think Regier recognizes that.

Except Regier is on record as stating on several occassions that his priorities are goaltenders, defensemen, centers, and then wingers in that order.

 

So, although he hasn't had to spend as much on d-men as he has on centers, it doesn't mean that they are a lower priority. It simply means that he has been able to get them locked in cheaper than he has been able to lock in centers.

[deluca67]

What I want or don't want really doesn't apply here. The goal is to continue to roll 4 lines as long as possible, agreed? Briere, a top 3 center, is a key to achieving that goal. Kalinin isn't even a top 4 defensemen. It's easier to replace Kalinin (a #5 Dman) next season with Paetsch, Funk, or Card, than it is to replace Briere. It's a no-brainer really, Kalinin is more easily replaceable than Briere or Drury, so you use his salary to keep Briere and Drury.

 

As to your second point, just about every player is going to leave the Sabres some day. The goal is to prolong their stay here as long as it benefits the team. Miller and Afinogenov are under contract for a couple more years. Two years is a long time in the NHL. The Sabres could win two Cups during that time; the salary cap could increase $4 to $6 million; A rookie could make one of these guys tradebait (like Kotalik this season), or Miller or Afinogenov could bust. It makes absolutely no sense to jeopardize the Sabres chances over the next two seasons, just because the team is worried about paying a guy in '09.

 

Vanek is still an RFA, (with no arbitration rights this year I believe). He won't make the big bucks until he earns arbitration and then UFA rights. The Sabres will continue to use that as a tool to keep the team together. So now they are in the same situation with Vanek as they are with Miller and Afinogenov. His big payday is a couple/few years down the road; a very long time in the NHL.

 

There are not many teams in the NHL that can roll 4 lines. Not many are 5 deep at center (Drury, Connolly, Roy, and Gaustad). This is a competitive edge that is worth keeping. It will result in many wins in the regular season and playoffs over the next couple of seasons, before other big contracts come due. It's worth replacing a #5 defenseman, a 39 year old defenseman, and a 20 goal winger, especially since the Sabres have their replacements already lined up.

 

Kalinin would be a top two defensemen on about 20 teams.

 

I have said this before. I don't like the idea of paying a player big bucks for half a game. Briere is one of the best centers in the league from the center line to the opposing goal. He drops off from the center line to his own goal. With 30 seconds left, a one goal lead and a face off in your own zone? I would rather see Paille or Stafford out there than Briere.

 

Drury is solid at both ends of the ice. That deserves the big contract.

 

And who is to say the Sabres don't have Briere's replacement already lined up. If a player like Vanek continues to progress? Briere may be expendable. He is just one piece of a greater puzzle. A piece they have proven to be able to win with him out of the lineup. ;)

[jad1]

Kalinin would be a top two defensemen on about 20 teams.

 

I have said this before. I don't like the idea of paying a player big bucks for half a game. Briere is one of the best centers in the league from the center line to the opposing goal. He drops off from the center line to his own goal. With 30 seconds left, a one goal lead and a face off in your own zone? I would rather see Paille or Stafford out there than Briere.

 

Drury is solid at both ends of the ice. That deserves the big contract.

 

And who is to say the Sabres don't have Briere's replacement already lined up. If a player like Vanek continues to progress? Briere may be expendable. He is just one piece of a greater puzzle. A piece they have proven to be able to win with him out of the lineup. ;)

 

Uh, yeah, maybe Kalinin would be top two on the Blues, Coyotes, or Flyers, but he will NEVER be top four on the Sabres. You can waste as much bandwith as you want touting this guy, but the fact remains that sacrificing a #5 D man for a top 3 center is a no brainer. Trade him to one of those teams for a #3 draft pick and spend the cap space on Briere/Drury.

 

As for Vanek, I would rather give up Kalinin and Kotalik to keep Briere, Drury, AND Vanek. Keep the current forwards, especially these three high-performers, in tact for AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

 

You keep arguing Briere vs. Vanek or Briere vs. Drury or Briere vs. Drury. That's not a decision that Regier has to make this off season. Someday he will probably have to make those choices, but by then, the Sabres could have 200 more wins and a couple of Stanley Cup championships.

 

By the way, were you one of the geniuses that advocated trading Briere for Morrison in off season? Morrison has 7 goals and is a -8. Despite your unconvincing arguments, Briere will not be easily replaced. Hopefully Regier has a better understanding about that than you.

[Alaska Darin]

By the way, were you one of the geniuses that advocated trading Briere for Morrison in off season? Morrison has 7 goals and is a -8. Despite your unconvincing arguments, Briere will not be easily replaced. Hopefully Regier has a better understanding about that than you.

I'm not sure how that pertains. Morrison is playing on a team that can't score to save their lives. He's still a very good player, though not a guy who'd go straight up for Briere if either GM had a clue.

 

Kalinin reminds me of Willis McGahee. All the tools, no toolbox. He has top 2 talent, but the orb on his shoulders will never let him get there. You'd think just being around Teppo would help, but so far...

[jad1]

I'm not sure how that pertains. Morrison is playing on a team that can't score to save their lives. He's still a very good player, though not a guy who'd go straight up for Briere if either GM had a clue.

 

Kalinin reminds me of Willis McGahee. All the tools, no toolbox. He has top 2 talent, but the orb on his shoulders will never let him get there. You'd think just being around Teppo would help, but so far...

 

You could have probably said the same thing about Briere at the beginning of last season, when the conventional wisdom was that the Sabres were no scoring threat. Briere, like Drury, is a guy who can rally his teammates and contribute. My point was that Briere will never be as easy to replace as many assert on this board. Hang on to him, and Drury, Vanek, Max, etc, as long as possible.

 

I agree about Kalinin, and would even say that he's a lot like Pyatt. While the team is waiting for him to come around, other players (who are cheaper) are making strides to take his job.

[Allan in MD]

Kalinin would be a top two defensemen on about 20 teams.

 

I have said this before. I don't like the idea of paying a player big bucks for half a game. Briere is one of the best centers in the league from the center line to the opposing goal. He drops off from the center line to his own goal. With 30 seconds left, a one goal lead and a face off in your own zone? I would rather see Paille or Stafford out there than Briere.

 

Drury is solid at both ends of the ice. That deserves the big contract.

 

And who is to say the Sabres don't have Briere's replacement already lined up. If a player like Vanek continues to progress? Briere may be expendable. He is just one piece of a greater puzzle. A piece they have proven to be able to win with him out of the lineup. ;)

Briere is not expendable. Gratton was expendable.

[deluca67]

Uh, yeah, maybe Kalinin would be top two on the Blues, Coyotes, or Flyers, but he will NEVER be top four on the Sabres. You can waste as much bandwith as you want touting this guy, but the fact remains that sacrificing a #5 D man for a top 3 center is a no brainer. Trade him to one of those teams for a #3 draft pick and spend the cap space on Briere/Drury.

 

As for Vanek, I would rather give up Kalinin and Kotalik to keep Briere, Drury, AND Vanek. Keep the current forwards, especially these three high-performers, in tact for AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

 

You keep arguing Briere vs. Vanek or Briere vs. Drury or Briere vs. Drury. That's not a decision that Regier has to make this off season. Someday he will probably have to make those choices, but by then, the Sabres could have 200 more wins and a couple of Stanley Cup championships.

 

By the way, were you one of the geniuses that advocated trading Briere for Morrison in off season? Morrison has 7 goals and is a -8. Despite your unconvincing arguments, Briere will not be easily replaced. Hopefully Regier has a better understanding about that than you.

 

I usually refrain from this type of response. But I have to say. You're an idiot.

 

The Sabres have what some would say is the best defensive corps in the NHL when all are healthy. To break it up at this point is the dumbest thing I have seen posted since the last time some posters tried to prove Peters was a real hockey player or Loseman is the next Troy Aikman.

 

The Sabres may be a flashy team. But the core of this teams on ice success starts from the goal out. The core of this teams long term success is not putting any one player above all the rest.

 

The Sabres offense is generated by it's defensemen. It's the blueliners ability to make smart quick passes out of the zone which allows Briere, Max and others to do the things they do. To weaken that in order to overpay for a one dimensional players is asinine.

 

Briere may be "the face" of the franchise. Make no mistake. Chris Drury is the heart and soul. Even Briere admits that Drury is the focal point of the locker room. He's the player that the younger guys, even Briere, look up to. He's the player that reminds this team that they just aren't another good team they are a Stanley Cup team. ;)

[jad1]

I usually refrain from this type of response. But I have to say. You're an idiot.

 

The Sabres have what some would say is the best defensive corps in the NHL when all are healthy. To break it up at this point is the dumbest thing I have seen posted since the last time some posters tried to prove Peters was a real hockey player or Loseman is the next Troy Aikman.

 

The Sabres may be a flashy team. But the core of this teams on ice success starts from the goal out. The core of this teams long term success is not putting any one player above all the rest.

 

The Sabres offense is generated by it's defensemen. It's the blueliners ability to make smart quick passes out of the zone which allows Briere, Max and others to do the things they do. To weaken that in order to overpay for a one dimensional players is asinine.

 

Briere may be "the face" of the franchise. Make no mistake. Chris Drury is the heart and soul. Even Briere admits that Drury is the focal point of the locker room. He's the player that the younger guys, even Briere, look up to. He's the player that reminds this team that they just aren't another good team they are a Stanley Cup team. ;)

 

And in kind, you're a dumbass. Got that out of our systems? Good.

 

And I don't need a lesson in hockey 101. Obviously I know that defense is important, but we're talking about Kalinin here. K-A-L-I-N-I-N. Not Tallinder; Not Campbell; Not Spacek; and not even Lydman. We're talking about the Taylor Pyatt of the defensive corps.

 

90% of your arguments against Briere are full of your own personal bullsh#t conclusions about the guy, so I'm not going even attempt to defend a scoring center who is a +9, not even half-way through the season. And I'll add that leadership is going into a building where the Sabres hadn't won in in 4 seasons, with Captain Clutch out of the lineup, and setting all three of the team's goals. Oh yeah, that's a guy I can't wait for the Sabres to get rid of.

 

But I will point out to you, yet again, that the decision next offseason isn't Briere vs. Drury. It's Paetsch, Sekera, Funk, or Card vs. Kalinin and Numminem. It's Paille, Stafford, or Ryan vs. Kotalik. It's Just like the decision this past offseason wasn't Dumont vs. Briere; it was Pomminstein vs. Dumont.

 

So tell me Deluca, if the Sabres are built from the net out, how come the Sabres have won so many games with Miller on the bench? What's their record during Tallinder's injury this season? How did they manage to win games without Tallinder and Lydman in the lineup? I guess that just means that Miller, Tallinder, and Lydman are all expendable. Dump them all now so the Sabres have money to spend on Vanek's big contract three years from now! (See how stupid that argument sounds?) <_<

[balz2walz]

Anyone who watches the games on a regular basis can see who's a playmaker and who is not. Briere, Max, Vanek, Drury, Campbell, even Roy although he should be putting up more points - these guys make plays. When's the last time Kotalik or Novotny have made a play or even scored? And Kalinin is getting worse every year. Every team in the league has a core group of players they rely upon, even Buffalo. Briere is one of those players. To take the position that Briere should be allowed to walk because the Sabres might have to pay someone else more in 3 years is like not dating the prettiest girl in the school because the other girls might get jealous. If necessary and within reason, dump the fringe players who can be replaced and sign Briere and Drury. Jad's got it right.

[deluca67]

And in kind, you're a dumbass. Got that out of our systems? Good.

 

And I don't need a lesson in hockey 101. Obviously I know that defense is important, but we're talking about Kalinin here. K-A-L-I-N-I-N. Not Tallinder; Not Campbell; Not Spacek; and not even Lydman. We're talking about the Taylor Pyatt of the defensive corps.

 

90% of your arguments against Briere are full of your own personal bullsh#t conclusions about the guy, so I'm not going even attempt to defend a scoring center who is a +9, not even half-way through the season. And I'll add that leadership is going into a building where the Sabres hadn't won in in 4 seasons, with Captain Clutch out of the lineup, and setting all three of the team's goals. Oh yeah, that's a guy I can't wait for the Sabres to get rid of.

 

But I will point out to you, yet again, that the decision next offseason isn't Briere vs. Drury. It's Paetsch, Sekera, Funk, or Card vs. Kalinin and Numminem. It's Paille, Stafford, or Ryan vs. Kotalik. It's Just like the decision this past offseason wasn't Dumont vs. Briere; it was Pomminstein vs. Dumont.

 

So tell me Deluca, if the Sabres are built from the net out, how come the Sabres have won so many games with Miller on the bench? What's their record during Tallinder's injury this season? How did they manage to win games without Tallinder and Lydman in the lineup? I guess that just means that Miller, Tallinder, and Lydman are all expendable. Dump them all now so the Sabres have money to spend on Vanek's big contract three years from now! (See how stupid that argument sounds?) <_<

 

Leadership?

 

Who is the only player on the Sabres roster that went through with arbitration? That's a great way to show the younger players how to put the team first. That's not leadership. That's a player who decided "I have to get mine". And don't give the pity party of "he needs to feed his family". His kids wouldn't have starved at $3.5 - $4 million a year.

 

Pomminstein vs. Dumont? Are you serious? Do you have a radon detector or a carbon monoxide detector in your home? You should get one.

 

I feel like I am talking to kindergarten kids some times. The Sabres win with players out of the lineup because they are a TEAM. When a player goes down others pick up the slack. It's like when Briere was out for all those games and the Sabres winning percentage went up. It because of the depth. You start losing that depth when you lose your mind and start dumping players just to sign one.

 

Let's note. Drury has yet to be out for any extended period of time with the Sabres. So we don't know what adverse affects it would have on the team over a period of time.

[wjag]

Leadership?

 

Who is the only player on the Sabres roster that went through with arbitration? That's a great way to show the younger players how to put the team first. That's not leadership. That's a player who decided "I have to get mine". And don't give the pity party of "he needs to feed his family". His kids wouldn't have starved at $3.5 - $4 million a year.

 

 

 

Briere is no different from anyone else. That is the system he works in and that is the remediation available to him. I don't question a guys heart because he takes his team to arbitration. I'd take my employer to arbitration if I could. I suspect most people would. I want more money. If I could get it, I would. That doesn't mean I'd work less, it just means I'd be a bit happier.

 

He isn't compromising his values and isn't showing less leadership. Leadership is earned. It isn't bestowed by us and can't be judged by us because we only see the on-ice stuff. You rarely see the locker room, team practice, etc, where leadership is earned. Our view of leadership is what the papers and news media feed us jumbled in with our own life experiences and emotions.

 

Danny has no guarantee that the next time OV comes up behind him and checks him into the boards he doesn't get a concussion and is forced to leave the game. The system gives him a mechanism for it. And by-the-by, he could have lost in arbitration.

 

His effort on the ice speaks for itself this year.

 

Sabres need some playmakers and Danny is a playmaker. So is Drury, so is Vanek, so is Max.

[deluca67]

Briere is no different from anyone else. That is the system he works in and that is the remediation available to him. I don't question a guys heart because he takes his team to arbitration. I'd take my employer to arbitration if I could. I suspect most people would. I want more money. If I could get it, I would. That doesn't mean I'd work less, it just means I'd be a bit happier.

 

He isn't compromising his values and isn't showing less leadership. Leadership is earned. It isn't bestowed by us and can't be judged by us because we only see the on-ice stuff. You rarely see the locker room, team practice, etc, where leadership is earned. Our view of leadership is what the papers and news media feed us jumbled in with our own life experiences and emotions.

 

Danny has no guarantee that the next time OV comes up behind him and checks him into the boards he doesn't get a concussion and is forced to leave the game. The system gives him a mechanism for it. And by-the-by, he could have lost in arbitration.

 

His effort on the ice speaks for itself this year.

 

Sabres need some playmakers and Danny is a playmaker. So is Drury, so is Vanek, so is Max.

 

I don't dislike Briere. It's great that he is a Sabre and he is a big reason the Sabres are the top scoring team in hockey. I just hate how some forget what it took to get the team to this point. At the first sign of success some are willing to throw everything out the window and put the Sabres back on the same course that almost killed this franchise.

 

If the Sabres have a 'sign at all cost' player it's Ryan Miller not Briere.

[jad1]

Leadership?

 

Who is the only player on the Sabres roster that went through with arbitration? That's a great way to show the younger players how to put the team first. That's not leadership. That's a player who decided "I have to get mine". And don't give the pity party of "he needs to feed his family". His kids wouldn't have starved at $3.5 - $4 million a year.

 

Pomminstein vs. Dumont? Are you serious? Do you have a radon detector or a carbon monoxide detector in your home? You should get one.

 

I feel like I am talking to kindergarten kids some times. The Sabres win with players out of the lineup because they are a TEAM. When a player goes down others pick up the slack. It's like when Briere was out for all those games and the Sabres winning percentage went up. It because of the depth. You start losing that depth when you lose your mind and start dumping players just to sign one.

 

Let's note. Drury has yet to be out for any extended period of time with the Sabres. So we don't know what adverse affects it would have on the team over a period of time.

 

And have you had an MRI lately, because I seriously doubt you have a brain.

 

I'm really trying to figure how much more I want to get into this with you, because I feel like I'm feeding your assinine crusade against Briere, which I decided was total bullsh#t 3 months ago.

 

So I'll reiterate my position.

 

-- I never stated that the Sabres should choose to sign Briere over Drury, or Vanek, or Miller. I've consistently argued that the Sabres could free up cap space in other areas.

 

-- The Sabres could find that cap space by replacing mid-range under-performing or aging players with strong prospects from Rochester. They could replace Kalinin, Numminem and Kotalik from a pool of players that include Paestch, Sekera, Funk, Card, Stafford, Paille, Ryan, etc. Since the number of replacees is larger than the pool of replacements, the Sabres will still have strong depth at each position. Darcy did this last season when he let Dumont walk because he had Pomminstein, Paille, Novotny in the pipeline.

 

-- Biron is a UFA, so he will be leaving, and the Sabres will most likely replace him with a more moderately priced backup. The salary cap is also rumored to increase.

 

So when you put all these things together, I believe the Sabres could bring back BOTH Drury and Briere, and not suffer any issues with depth, outside of finding a backup goaltender (which has to happen whether they re-sign Briere and/or Drury or not).

 

So why not let Briere or Drury walk, like some in this thread are debating? Because the team would have a harder time replacing those two than a guy like Kalinin or Kotalik. That would impact the Sabres overall team depth more than replacing a guy like Kalinin with Paestch next season.

 

Now if somebody wants challenge the math here, that's cool. But I'm finished responding to one idiot's pointless and factless crusade against a player he just doesn't like.

[slapshot1619]

 

Drury is solid at both ends of the ice. That deserves the big contract.

 

 

Funny, Peca had that same argument and look where he ended up...

 

Of course that was the old NHL but, while Peca who doesn't really have much to give on offense as Drury didn't earn the same pay day as a more offensive Centerman.

 

I want to believe the more complete player deserves money, but reality is that offense = $$$. I don't think Drury is on par with Briere offensively but, He can get ya 30G 20 - 30A a year. I forsee a contract starting at 4.5 mil for Drury and Briere Looking for an extension finishing in upwards of 7mil... (Depending on the remainder of the season plays out of course)

 

Personally I'd like to see both back, but If one had to go I'd wave goodbye to danny His offense can be replaced and would be a bigger relief on the cap.

[jad1]

Funny, Peca had that same argument and look where he ended up...

 

Of course that was the old NHL but, while Peca who doesn't really have much to give on offense as Drury didn't earn the same pay day as a more offensive Centerman.

 

I want to believe the more complete player deserves money, but reality is that offense = $$$. I don't think Drury is on par with Briere offensively but, He can get ya 30G 20 - 30A a year. I forsee a contract starting at 4.5 mil for Drury and Briere Looking for an extension finishing in upwards of 7mil... (Depending on the remainder of the season plays out of course)

 

Personally I'd like to see both back, but If one had to go I'd wave goodbye to danny His offense can be replaced and would be a bigger relief on the cap.

 

If they could get Drury at $4.5 million, I'd run a victory lap around my block. I think it's going to be more, but I got my fingers crossed.

 

When Drury first joined the Sabres he made a comment that he thought he had a pretty good career going until he realized that he was being traded to his third team. That bugged him. Hopefully he's decided that Buffalo is where he wants to finish his career, because we'd love to have him do that.

[Bmwolf21]

If the Sabres feel they can continually scout, draft, sign & develop the type of young, fast, skilled players who can constantly push the regulars for spots on the roster, then I have no problem with them signing Briere AND Drury to long-term, fairly large deals. IMO, both bring a specific set of skills, qualities and talents to the team, and they are very complementary pieces of the puzzle.

 

I am just getting tired of people trying to pit them against each other - if I were the GM I would try to keep both, but otherwise I would concentrate on Drury and look to deal Danny if I knew I couldn't re-sign him. If Danny signs somewhere for $6.5- 7M, then we can use those savings on a couple players to offset his loss of offense.

 

My concern is this - if Jay McKee got 4yrs, $16M on the FA market last year - what is Danny going to command? $6, $6.5M, maybe $7M for 4 years? How about Drury? He's at $3.154M this year - what's his resume worth on the open market? $4.5, $5, $5.5M? The thought of either of them actually hitting the FA market scares the hell of out of me.

 

Again, like I said before, if the young guys coming up can truly replace guys like Kotalik, Teppo, Kalinin, Novotny, then I have no problem with them retaining both.

[jad1]

If the Sabres feel they can continually scout, draft, sign & develop the type of young, fast, skilled players who can constantly push the regulars for spots on the roster, then I have no problem with them signing Briere AND Drury to long-term, fairly large deals. IMO, both bring a specific set of skills, qualities and talents to the team, and they are very complementary pieces of the puzzle.

 

I am just getting tired of people trying to pit them against each other - if I were the GM I would try to keep both, but otherwise I would concentrate on Drury and look to deal Danny if I knew I couldn't re-sign him. If Danny signs somewhere for $6.5- 7M, then we can use those savings on a couple players to offset his loss of offense.

 

My concern is this - if Jay McKee got 4yrs, $16M on the FA market last year - what is Danny going to command? $6, $6.5M, maybe $7M for 4 years? How about Drury? He's at $3.154M this year - what's his resume worth on the open market? $4.5, $5, $5.5M? The thought of either of them actually hitting the FA market scares the hell of out of me.

 

Again, like I said before, if the young guys coming up can truly replace guys like Kotalik, Teppo, Kalinin, Novotny, then I have no problem with them retaining both.

 

Amen. How much these guys are going to be offered as UFAs is the big wildcard here. Anything over $6 million will force Regier to choose between the two. The question is who has the cap space to sign them to a contract that size. Most teams are up against the cap this year. Will a team like the Canadiens clear out space to sign Briere to a 'franchise-player' contract? Will Drury or Briere be willing to take more money to play for a lousy team, like McKee did with the Blues?

 

I join you in having the hell scared out of me by these guys' UFA status.

[nfreeman]

Wow. Great thread, except, IMHO, for the name-calling, which is beneath you.

 

Here's my 2 cents:

 

1. I agree with DeLuca that Miller is the only "retain at all costs no matter what" player.

 

2. Having said that, I've thought since last year that Briere is our best forward. Yes, Connolly, Drury and Max are great, but Briere is better. He's relentless, he's clutch (2 OT winners this year and 5-for-7 in the shootout), he's a good scorer, a good passer, he's good around the net, he's tough and he's a leader. It's an oversimplification to say he stinks in the defensive zone -- he's a plus-9, for one thing -- probably more accurate to say we have other forwards who are better and thus get the PK and end-of-game ice time.

 

3. I completely reject DeLuca's proposition that Briere is not a team player because he went through arbitration. Wjag is absolutely right on this -- Briere's career could be over in a heartbeat. He has to get what he can while he can. McKee taking STL's offer didn't make him a selfish guy either.

 

4. While there are some players I would jettison if it meant keeping both Briere and Drury, these do not include any of our defensemen. Frankly I would be amazed if we voluntarily did so with any of them. Darcy and Lindy have repeatedly asserted that they value goaltending 1st, then defense, then forwards.

 

5. Teppo might retire, but I doubt it. He's playing well and does not at all look too old out there. I expect Teppo to come back again next year and play well again.

 

6. Kalinin has had a solid year, with moments of greatness as well as lousy moments. While I think it's an exaggeration to say he's a top 2 defenseman on 20 teams in the NHL, I do think he's top 4 on 20 teams. He certainly fits our system to a T and has played well and consistently enough to stay out of Lindy's doghouse -- which is an improvement over last year. He's 26 -- a year younger than Campbell, who didn't really step it up until the latter part of last year. He's locked in at $2 million per year for 2 more years after this season, which is a pretty good price for a good defenseman.

 

7. Another good reason to hang onto Kalinin is that the cupboard isn't nearly as well stocked with defensemen as it is with forwards. I think Paetsch will likely turn out to be a good player, but we certainly haven't seen anything out of Card, Funk or Sekera yet. If we were to unload Kalinin, that would put Paetsch in at #6, a 40-year-old Teppo at #5 and an utterly unproven Card/Funk/Sekera at #7. I'd be amazed if Darcy was comfortable with that depth chart on D.

 

8. That leaves us with the question of whether we unload a forward or 2 in order to keep both Briere and Drury. Here the only possibility is Kotalik, since Max is untouchable, Hecht is pretty close to the same and no one else makes enough $$ to make dumping him worthwhile. I like Kotalik, but I would unload him in favor of Stafford or Paille if it meant keeping Briere and Drury.

 

9. This in turn brings us to the big unknown: would the Kotalik savings, plus Biron savings, plus the cap increase, give us enough cap room to sign Drury and Briere (not to mention Vanek, who will probably cost at least $2.5 million in cap space)? Will they sign with us before the season ends and they go on the market? Would they be crazy to do so? Aren't there 29 other teams watching us and thinking they can buy a big chunk of sabres magic for the right price, and it only takes 1 bozo GM to make a crazy offer?

 

The combined cap hit for Briere, Drury and Vanek this year is $9 million. Let's assume Vanek, who is still restricted, can be signed for a $2.5 million cap hit (I could be totally out to lunch on that). If Drury makes $4 million next year, that's a 33% raise for a 30-year-old team captain who projects to score about 78 points this year. Might somebody offer him $5 million? Absolutely, but I don't see a bidding war for him at that number. Should we offer him $5 million to lock him up? That's a tough one. Let's call it $4.5 million. So that's $7 million for Drury and Vanek.

 

Briere is going to cost more than $5 million, but how much more? I don't see the sabres going above $6 million. If Briere and the Sabres agree on $6 million, that's $13 million for the 3 of them, as compared with $9 million now. Can we get $4 million of cap space via Marty's departure, unloading Kotalik, and the cap itself increasing? Probably, but it's gonna be close, and if my #s above on Vanek and/or Drury are off, it'll be that much trickier.

 

I think the Sabres are going to try, and I think they are going to go up to $6 million for Briere.

[Bmwolf21]

I agree with most of your points, but there are a couple things I wanted to add.

 

2. Having said that, I've thought since last year that Briere is our best forward. Yes, Connolly, Drury and Max are great, but Briere is better. He's relentless, he's clutch (2 OT winners this year and 5-for-7 in the shootout), he's a good scorer, a good passer, he's good around the net, he's tough and he's a leader. It's an oversimplification to say he stinks in the defensive zone -- he's a plus-9, for one thing -- probably more accurate to say we have other forwards who are better and thus get the PK and end-of-game ice time.

Briere and Max are our top-2 dynamic forwards, with Vanek a close third, IMO. (Connolly as well, but not right now.) They'll get the crowd up out of their seats, and get hot more often; Briere is more consistent than Max, but both are pretty one-dimensional in the sense that they are completely offensive-minded, and neither is worth much in their own end. Danny is a career -13, which admittedly comes from two horrible years with Phoenix (-21) and Buffalo (-7), but even though his defensive play has improved, it really had nowhere to go but up and he still makes some bad plays in his own end.

 

5. Teppo might retire, but I doubt it. He's playing well and does not at all look too old out there. I expect Teppo to come back again next year and play well again.

 

6. Kalinin has had a solid year, with moments of greatness as well as lousy moments. While I think it's an exaggeration to say he's a top 2 defenseman on 20 teams in the NHL, I do think he's top 4 on 20 teams. He certainly fits our system to a T and has played well and consistently enough to stay out of Lindy's doghouse -- which is an improvement over last year. He's 26 -- a year younger than Campbell, who didn't really step it up until the latter part of last year. He's locked in at $2 million per year for 2 more years after this season, which is a pretty good price for a good defenseman.

Teppo and Kalinin have both looked good and bad this year. For Teppo, his play has been more consistent, but lately he has looked old, slow and tired, and I think that is a result of how much ice time they are giving him. Teppo will look better once Tallinder comes back, as he won't have to play so much on the PK and even strength.

 

Kalinin, OTOH, is a mystery to me. All the talent in the world, but never consistent enough to be a top-2 guy on the Sabres. If we face an injury attacke like last year's playoffs, and a rookie is pressed into significant time and responds well, you may see the team start quietly shopping Dmitri. He still has a lot of upside and a lot of teams out west would love to make him a top-4 guy.

 

7. Another good reason to hang onto Kalinin is that the cupboard isn't nearly as well stocked with defensemen as it is with forwards. I think Paetsch will likely turn out to be a good player, but we certainly haven't seen anything out of Card, Funk or Sekera yet. If we were to unload Kalinin, that would put Paetsch in at #6, a 40-year-old Teppo at #5 and an utterly unproven Card/Funk/Sekera at #7. I'd be amazed if Darcy was comfortable with that depth chart on D.

I'd be surprised if the Sabres brought back Teppo for another year, and if they did, I think he would be the no. 6 D (at age 39, that is ;) ) In reality I think you'll see us lose one, maybe two defensemen before training camp next year (Teppo and/or Dmitri) and in turn, I think you'll see the team swing some sort of deal for defensive depth.

 

8. That leaves us with the question of whether we unload a forward or 2 in order to keep both Briere and Drury. Here the only possibility is Kotalik, since Max is untouchable, Hecht is pretty close to the same and no one else makes enough $$ to make dumping him worthwhile. I like Kotalik, but I would unload him in favor of Stafford or Paille if it meant keeping Briere and Drury.

 

9. This in turn brings us to the big unknown: would the Kotalik savings, plus Biron savings, plus the cap increase, give us enough cap room to sign Drury and Briere (not to mention Vanek, who will probably cost at least $2.5 million in cap space)? Will they sign with us before the season ends and they go on the market? Would they be crazy to do so? Aren't there 29 other teams watching us and thinking they can buy a big chunk of sabres magic for the right price, and it only takes 1 bozo GM to make a crazy offer?

Fortunately, the most likely bozo GM is no longer at the helm of the Flyers, but I wouldn't be surprised to see someone (maybe the Habs) throw a ridiculous salary at Briere, or the Sens throw a huge offer at Drury to see if that player can get them over the hump. That's why it is ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE that neither of them get to the open market , IMO - if Darcy & co want them back, then they NEED to be locked up before any team has any shot whatsoever.

I want to believe the more complete player deserves money, but reality is that offense = $$$. I don't think Drury is on par with Briere offensively but, He can get ya 30G 20 - 30A a year. I forsee a contract starting at 4.5 mil for Drury and Briere Looking for an extension finishing in upwards of 7mil... (Depending on the remainder of the season plays out of course)

Steve, I definitely agree that Danny is the more complete player, but I have to argue that we don't know what kind of offensive player he truly can be, simply because over the last two years, he has been saddled with some offensively-challenged line mates (see Griere, Mike and Kotalik, Al.) Meanwhile Briere has enjoyed playing alongside Hecht and Dumont for nearly one full year and this year gets Hecht and Pominville most nights. Its not an excuse, a complaint or whatever, just a simple observation - Drury hasn't tended to play with the most offensively creative players over the last two years. When has (last year's PP comes to mind) he did pretty well.

[deluca67]

 

3. I completely reject DeLuca's proposition that Briere is not a team player because he went through arbitration. Wjag is absolutely right on this -- Briere's career could be over in a heartbeat. He has to get what he can while he can. McKee taking STL's offer didn't make him a selfish guy either.

 

 

You know how I hate rejection :cry:

 

Couldn't the career of the other 12 or so players who decided to sign contracts be over in a heart beat? Let's be realistic here. We are not talking about making $40,000 and not being able to afford health care. Briere could have signed a contract like Max did. 3 years at $3 million. Even if he gets hurt he gets every penny. Both B-Rod and McKee went for the cash grab. Good for them. But don't tell me they are "team palyers" and have the best interests of the team at heart.

 

The difference between Drury and Briere is simple. Drury is 100% about the Cup. Briere is about market value. While Briere is around town shaking hands and kissing babies. Drury is hanging up pictures of the Stanley Cup in the locker room. That is leadership. Drury doesn't care if he is the most popular player. All he cares about is getting another ring. That's why I'll take Drury over Briere anyday and everyday. :thumbsup:

[nfreeman]

You know how I hate rejection :cry:

 

Couldn't the career of the other 12 or so players who decided to sign contracts be over in a heart beat? Let's be realistic here. We are not talking about making $40,000 and not being able to afford health care. Briere could have signed a contract like Max did. 3 years at $3 million. Even if he gets hurt he gets every penny. Both B-Rod and McKee went for the cash grab. Good for them. But don't tell me they are "team palyers" and have the best interests of the team at heart.

 

The difference between Drury and Briere is simple. Drury is 100% about the Cup. Briere is about market value. While Briere is around town shaking hands and kissing babies. Drury is hanging up pictures of the Stanley Cup in the locker room. That is leadership. Drury doesn't care if he is the most popular player. All he cares about is getting another ring. That's why I'll take Drury over Briere anyday and everyday. :thumbsup:

 

Any evidence for this statement?

 

If Drury leaves as a UFA and goes to a crappy team for big money, will you re-evaluate this statement?

 

I think you can be a team player AND try to maximize your contract. In other words: once every few years, you have to negotiate, but once that's done, you will go through a wall to win. It doesn't mean you're not a leader and a team player.

 

Just my opinion.

[deluca67]

Any evidence for this statement?

 

If Drury leaves as a UFA and goes to a crappy team for big money, will you re-evaluate this statement?

 

I think you can be a team player AND try to maximize your contract. In other words: once every few years, you have to negotiate, but once that's done, you will go through a wall to win. It doesn't mean you're not a leader and a team player.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Evidence? Going through with arbitration is all I need.

 

If Drury pulls a Jay McKee I will lose a lot of respect for him. The only "crappy team" I could imagine him going to is Boston. I don't have a problem with a player wanting to play at home. I didn't have a problem with Grier wanting to play closer to his family in San Jose. I won't if Briere wants to go to Montreal.

[Bmwolf21]

If Drury pulls a Jay McKee I will lose a lot of respect for him. The only "crappy team" I could imagine him going to is Boston. I don't have a problem with a player wanting to play at home. I didn't have a problem with Grier wanting to play closer to his family in San Jose. I won't if Briere wants to go to Montreal.

It makes me feel dirty to say this, but I sort of agree with DeLuca on this.

[rant]I have no problem with players going "home" to play, but to take a bigger offer from crappy team just for the sake of the bigger contract gets under my skin. Before any of you start with the usual comments - I know its a business, their careers are short, blah blah blah - but don't tell me how much you want to win the Cup, be on a winner, etc., then sign a bigger contract with freaking Philly, the Panthers, Blues, Coyotes, all the while telling me "its not about the money"...at least McKee had the decency to tell us that yes, it WAS about the money. [/rant]

 

I feel better now. :thumbsup: