GAME DISCUSSION THREAD

[hopeleslyobvious]

Marty could/should be starting for 1/3 of the league. Our team is just getting worn down. Too many key injuries...Teppo is still playing 20+ minutes with a tweaked groin. We gave the Sens 6 consecutive full minutes in our zone in the 2nd. That reaks of being tired.

 

Which teams specifically?

[SDS]

It doesn't matter how fast you skate if you make mistakes while doing it and you fail to put the puck in the net. On the whole, we outplayed them, but their breaks went in and ours didn't. That game could have been a blow out either way depending how the rubber bounced.

[nfreeman]

I completely disagree with the notion that Marty would start for any number of teams in the league. Any team that Marty is starting for is looking for a new goalie. I'm a bit calmer now than I was an hour ago, but B-level goaltending wins the game for us tonight. Instead we got C-minus goaltending.

 

Yes, both effort and execution were subpar tonight, but not too bad on either until the 3rd period. Not too surprising given (i) injuries, (ii) increased minutes for top 4 defensemen (30 minutes for Bionic Brian Campbell vs. only 13 for Paetsch and ONE for Card) and (iii) schedule. Then Marty lets in a softie for a 2-2 tie (yes, I think it was a softie, even though it was deflected -- I watched it in slo-mo a bunch of times and the deflection didn't change the puck's direction much at all -- same with the 3rd goal, which he never saw regardless of the deflection), and the team sags. Just like old times, eh Marty? He makes some great saves, but does just enough to make the team lose its momentum and energy and gets you beat.

 

This is 4 games in a row now where Marty hasn't been able to protect a lead in the 3rd period.

 

Who's ready for Dennis if Miller can't go on Friday? I am.

 

Separately, it might be time to reshuffle the Drury-Novotny-Kotalik line. They just seem completely ineffective on 5-on-5 offense.

[SDS]

Who's ready for Dennis Miller...

 

I'll pass... He never struck me as a hockey guy. ;)

[Done]

Which teams specifically?

 

St Louis, Tampa, Columbus, Philly, Boston, Chicago, Phoenix, Florida, Carolina........

[Kristian]

St Louis, Tampa, Columbus, Philly, Boston, Chicago, Phoenix, Florida, Carolina........

 

Marty currently has a GAA of 3.30 and a SV% of .886. That's Bob Essensa numbers :blink:

 

I know stats only tell half the story and some will point out that he saved the game against The Cryers on a 3 on 0 Break. True, he did. But he wouldn't have had to if he hadn't been his usual sieve-self on Umberger's WEAK wrister from the blue line.

 

Fact is Marty puts teams in trouble, when all that is needed from him is to hold the fort. Nobody is asking him to be spectacular.

 

Sorry, there is no way this guy starts for anyone in this league, and it's another season with 2 mill. down the tube for a backup on a team that is currently cap strained.

[Corp000085]

usually i don't get on the "blame so and so" after one loss, but this loss was a long time in the making for marty biron. he didn't play terrible, but he didn't play great. giving up 3rd period leads is inexcusable. I too am ready for dennis if miller is not ready on friday. All we need is for dennis to play decent and stop crosby once and that should make marty think twice about his great chance to lead another team...

[X. Benedict]

 

 

Who's ready for Dennis if Miller can't go on Friday? I am.

 

Separately, it might be time to reshuffle the Drury-Novotny-Kotalik line. They just seem completely ineffective on 5-on-5 offense.

 

I didn't like Dennis Miller on Monday, so I don't think I would like him on Friday.

 

I don't think Biron lost this game. I thought he let in some soft ones in Carolina, but getting beat from the point on deflections - well that's just hockey. If you watch that Neil shot that he got beat on from the goal line , I would say that was a great shot. Marty played well enough to win in my opinion.

 

As far as the loss itself, it is hard to be gnashing teeth too much. More than Marty I think there has to be some focus on the power play. Passing up the good shot for the perfect shot one too many times is not the way to play a goalie that has seen limited action in two weeks. There were about 3 quality shots a period that were passed up - I actually thought Stafford had it right, put it on net - which led to a Vanek goal.

 

The Sens still have a ton of talent. Hard to get too upset about this one, but at the same time, it was the kind of game that does expose the margin between wins and losses.

[Kristian]

usually i don't get on the "blame so and so" after one loss, but this loss was a long time in the making for marty biron. he didn't play terrible, but he didn't play great. giving up 3rd period leads is inexcusable. I too am ready for dennis if miller is not ready on friday. All we need is for dennis to play decent and stop crosby once and that should make marty think twice about his great chance to lead another team...

 

This is what's always puzzled me about Biron - Once he knows he's going to start, his focus seems to drop.

 

Back in the day, if Mika had a good start or two, Marty would come roaring back with some great games and as soon as he was set in goal again, his performance level would drop dramatically.

 

Now, I know Marty is nowhere near the starting job as it is, but with Miller injured he knows he'll be getting the starts, and I think this may be the problem.

 

I don't know what to call it? Complacency?

[Knightrider]

Marty currently has a GAA of 3.30 and a SV% of .886. That's Bob Essensa numbers :blink:

 

I know stats only tell half the story and some will point out that he saved the game against The Cryers on a 3 on 0 Break. True, he did. But he wouldn't have had to if he hadn't been his usual sieve-self on Umberger's WEAK wrister from the blue line.

 

Fact is Marty puts teams in trouble, when all that is needed from him is to hold the fort. Nobody is asking him to be spectacular.

 

Sorry, there is no way this guy starts for anyone in this league, and it's another season with 2 mill. down the tube for a backup on a team that is currently cap strained.

 

Let me preface this with the fact that I did not see the game last night. I only listened to the second and third. But to me, it sounded like Biron was making the saves in the second and third and was playing much better than he did in Carolina. The third period goal shouldn't not have even counted. The other two were PP goals for the Sens. If you want to complain about Marty, that is fine, but the evidence from last night does not support your argument.

 

Drury's line is not producing, and hasn't been for a while. Drury, Kotalik, and Novotny are on a three game pointless streak have only one point in the last six games. There is something to talk about.

 

As for a $2M backup, I see it as a good thing for a contender, and a bad thing for a rebuilding team. Last year's Edmonton, Atlanta and to some extent, Ottawa, are examples why. Atlanta would have had a playoff team if they had depth in goal. Edmonton, well... Ottawa probably would have fared better if they hadn't worn Emery (who I think is pretty solid) out last year.

 

The Sabres are the best team in the east, and arguably in the NHL right now. That means we will be seeing every team's A-game for the foreseeable future. Ottawa played that way last night, and they still needed Toronto to misunderstand physics to win.

[mrjsbu96]

on a side note - and for those who watched TSN coverage on Center Ice - the line of the night came from Pierre McGuire. The play-by-play announcer was mentioning how only single seats remain for the home schedule and then there was a pause...before Pierre chimed in something to the effect, "It doesn't hurt that the football team in town stinks." On a down hockey night, that one-liner along with the Dodge Nitro commercial with the dogs made me remember it is just a game, remember to laugh, and you can't win them all!

[MBD]

Look at it this way: the Ducks lost at home BADLY to the Cryers, the worst team in the NHL. And the Ducks are healthy.

[Done]

Marty currently has a GAA of 3.30 and a SV% of .886. That's Bob Essensa numbers :blink:

 

I know stats only tell half the story and some will point out that he saved the game against The Cryers on a 3 on 0 Break. True, he did. But he wouldn't have had to if he hadn't been his usual sieve-self on Umberger's WEAK wrister from the blue line.

 

Fact is Marty puts teams in trouble, when all that is needed from him is to hold the fort. Nobody is asking him to be spectacular.

 

Sorry, there is no way this guy starts for anyone in this league, and it's another season with 2 mill. down the tube for a backup on a team that is currently cap strained.

 

Maybe you should check the stats of other goalies in the league. Then add in the fact that the Sabres play a run and gun transition offense which leads to many odd man breaks or breakaways against our goalie. Marty came up with 3 saves yesterday and another 3 the night before on breaks.

 

Give Marty Tallinder, Lydman, Afinigenov.....and then let Campbell Teppo and Spacek play 5 less minutes like they are supposed to, and then maybe he looks a little better to you. For the love of sweet Jesus....Biron is like 20-3-1 and everyone wants to connect electrodes to his groin.

[Bmwolf21]

I didn't like Dennis Miller on Monday, so I don't think I would like him on Friday.

 

I don't think Biron lost this game. I thought he let in some soft ones in Carolina, but getting beat from the point on deflections - well that's just hockey. If you watch that Neil shot that he got beat on from the goal line , I would say that was a great shot. Marty played well enough to win in my opinion.

 

As far as the loss itself, it is hard to be gnashing teeth too much. More than Marty I think there has to be some focus on the power play. Passing up the good shot for the perfect shot one too many times is not the way to play a goalie that has seen limited action in two weeks. There were about 3 quality shots a period that were passed up - I actually thought Stafford had it right, put it on net - which led to a Vanek goal.

 

The Sens still have a ton of talent. Hard to get too upset about this one, but at the same time, it was the kind of game that does expose the margin between wins and losses.

I gotta disagree with you here, X. There is no way you can honestly say Marty played well enough to win, nor did he play well enough to steal a point. I just watched the highlights on Yahoo sports, and there is no way that Neil goal should have gone in. Good shot by Neil, yes - but there was no pass fake, Marty just tried to guess at the pass and whiffed. Then he commits a standard-issue Marty-puck misplay, turning it over to set up the 3rd goal.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not laying the blame for this game solely at Marty's feet. I agree that there should be more focus on the ST's and the fact that we took way too many penalties last night, or that we stopped skating for a while, or that we had too many passengers. Whatever other factor you want to point to is probably true, but it doesn't absolve Marty of his clockwork efficiency of letting in a couple soft goals, and then making a couple tough saves to try to balance it out. Bottom line was, this team blew another third period lead last night.

 

It is one game, and I don't want to focus too much on it, but at the same time, I am concerned that this team has blown significant leads in 4 of the last 5 games, and all with Marty manning the crease and giving up soft goals.

[nfreeman]

Maybe you should check the stats of other goalies in the league. Then add in the fact that the Sabres play a run and gun transition offense which leads to many odd man breaks or breakaways against our goalie. Marty came up with 3 saves yesterday and another 3 the night before on breaks.

 

Give Marty Tallinder, Lydman, Afinigenov.....and then let Campbell Teppo and Spacek play 5 less minutes like they are supposed to, and then maybe he looks a little better to you. For the love of sweet Jesus....Biron is like 20-3-1 and everyone wants to connect electrodes to his groin.

 

Nobody's looking to zap his undercarriage. Speaking for myself only, I'm just frustrated because:

 

1. watching Marty the past few games brought back awful memories of the 3 years post-Dominik, where we kept hoping he would step up and he kept disappointing us. While it was certainly a difficult position Marty was in (ie having to replace Dom), that team was built around goaltending, and the huge dropoff from Dom to Marty just killed us, every year.

 

With top-10 goaltending, that team was a playoff team -- not a final 4 team unless it had top-3 goaltending, but still a playoff team. With Marty, it was unbearable to watch. We are good enough on offense now so that we can still win most nights despite Marty. Last night, with the injuries, schedule, crappy PP & PK catching up to us, we needed solid (but not great) goaltending -- just like we needed post-Dominik. And, just like those 3 years, we didn't get it.

 

2. the constant repetition by lots of Sabres fans that Marty is great, he's as good as Miller, we should bench Miller for Marty whenever Miller lets in 4 goals, we should trade Marty for XYZ great player or top 5 draft pick, etc., makes me think people just aren't paying attention. I've said it before, and I'll repeat it: no one is going to give us anything good for Marty. No one is going to give him the keys to a playoff team. He's not good enough. He's a solid #2 -- ie he can get the job done when the pressure is off. He has consistently failed to produce when the pressure is on.

 

3. I think Darcy has done a great job, but it's possible we should've traded Marty last year and kept Mika, who was cheaper and maybe better. (On the other hand, this could very well be grass-is-always-greener thinking since Mika was given several chances to win the job in Vancouver and didn't do so).

 

Just my opinion.

[hopeleslyobvious]

St Louis, Tampa, Columbus, Philly, Boston, Chicago, Phoenix, Florida, Carolina........

 

I'd take Cam Ward over Marty.

Auld is having a similar year to Marty, Belfour is having a better year.

Phoenix I will give you.

Boston is close. I think I would still take Thomas over Biron.

Nittymaki has slightly better numbers than Marty, he's playing with a muscle tear and on in front of one of the worst defenses in hockey. I'd take Nittymaki.

Khabibulin is older and seems injury prone. But I think he's a better goaltender. I will still give you that one.

Leclaire is putting up slightly better numbers on a bad team, and he just turned 24. He still could develop further.

Denis and Biron are about even.

Both St. Louis goalies have the problem of playing for St. Louis. I think Legace is a better goalie than Marty. I like what I have seen from Sanford as well.

[Kristian]

Nobody's looking to zap his undercarriage. Speaking for myself only, I'm just frustrated because:

 

2. the constant repetition by lots of Sabres fans that Marty is great, he's as good as Miller, we should bench Miller for Marty whenever Miller lets in 4 goals, we should trade Marty for XYZ great player or top 5 draft pick, etc., makes me think people just aren't paying attention. I've said it before, and I'll repeat it: no one is going to give us anything good for Marty. No one is going to give him the keys to a playoff team. He's not good enough. He's a solid #2 -- ie he can get the job done when the pressure is off. He has consistently failed to produce when the pressure is on.

 

Just my opinion.

 

I was one of the people who thought Miller should've been yanked against Toronto, but not becuase he was having a bad game. It's quite simply a way of saying to the team, "ok, since you won't play for this guy, let's see if you'll play for this guy".

 

In other words, you send a message to the team, not the goalie.

 

However I have never, and never will appreciate Marty for his goaltending, as he is simply not good enough and never will be. I am tired of people telling me how many games he wins. Marty doesn't win these games, the team wins these games for him - not the other way around. Games are not won because of Marty, but in spite of him.

 

I'm not expecting him to steal games. It's Marty for Christ sakes. However, I do expect him to make simple saves, I do expect him not to assist on opposition goals, and most important of all - I expect him to learn from his mistakes. He does neither, and he makes 2 mill. a year to boot.

[X. Benedict]

 

However I have never, and never will appreciate Marty for his goaltending, as he is simply not good enough and never will be.

Good enough for what?

 

He is a back up goaltender. He gives the team a chance to win. Marty did not lose that game - the powerplay did. We'll call the Neil goal soft, okay, but the guy also stopped 3 breakaways when Ottawa got behind the defense.

 

I'm not saying the guy stood on his head. The guy is the backstop for a high risk - high reward style of play and the number 2. Overpaid or not that is another matter. I don't think he has been at the top of his game in the last week, or beyond critique, he hasn't been seeing the puck particularly well, but he has given the team chances to win.

 

What would you want as a number 2? Some malcontent that divides a locker room. Most of the Sens admit that they had a divided locker room last year with Hasek/Emery.

 

Keeping Mika last year wasn't the answer, that is pretty obvious from the value that Vancouver got out of the guy - he wasn't going to compete for the job - he voted with his feet.

[shrader]

I can't wait to get Lydman back. Even without Talinder, we can roll 6 ice time eaters out there when Toni's back. That's going to make a whole world of difference over rolling 4 guys like we have been lately. Plus, it's pretty obvious that the PK needs those two back. Yeah, Talinder's still out for a while, but a healthy Lydman helps a whole hell of a lot.

[Done]

Let's play guess the goalie..........

 

From 2003-current

 

 

W-L-T GAA SV%

 

Goalie#1 53-27-5 2.51 .909

 

Goalie#2 45-26-1 2.71 .908

 

 

Your choices are:

 

Marty Biron

 

Ryan Miller

[BetweenThePipes00]

Nobody's looking to zap his undercarriage. Speaking for myself only, I'm just frustrated because:

1. watching Marty the past few games brought back awful memories of the 3 years post-Dominik, where we kept hoping he would step up and he kept disappointing us. While it was certainly a difficult position Marty was in (ie having to replace Dom), that team was built around goaltending, and the huge dropoff from Dom to Marty just killed us, every year.

With top-10 goaltending, that team was a playoff team -- not a final 4 team unless it had top-3 goaltending, but still a playoff team. With Marty, it was unbearable to watch. We are good enough on offense now so that we can still win most nights despite Marty. Last night, with the injuries, schedule, crappy PP & PK catching up to us, we needed solid (but not great) goaltending -- just like we needed post-Dominik. And, just like those 3 years, we didn't get it.

 

Revisionist history. The year after Hasek left, Marty played 72 games and had a GAA of 2.21 and a SvPCT of .915? Funny, according to the stats on NHL.com Marty was in the top 10 in GAA and SVpct. Top 10 goaltending and that team did not make the playoffs. We were just so used to Hasek stealing game after game, it looked worse than it was.

 

I agree, Marty got worse the following year, but so did the team. They scored a whopping 190 goals, fewer than they ever scored with Hasek. The team sucked.

 

The year before the lockout, you can hang that one on Marty, no argument, the offense was starting to come around at the end and he (and Noronen) dug them way to big a hole.

 

(BTW, it's time to let Noronen go. he sucked in Vancouver and then could not run home fast enough to be with his girlfriend. His head was never in playing over here.)

 

Biron is never going to be what many thought he could be. (although I think it is very interesting that his best season, by far, was when he was never looking over his shoulder and no one was calling for his head).

 

He's a great BACKUP, and in fact the perfect backup for a team like this with a real chance to win the Cup. His experience is a luxury. But you guys are not treating him as a backup. Any other backup, and it would be "just give us a chance to win." Well, he stopped 3 breakaways and gave up one whole goal that was not deflected. Even if he stops the soft one that you are all dwelling on, all that does is get them to overtime. Now., if they had lost in Philly, you could say he lost them that game, and I would agree 100%. That should not have gone to OT, and it was soft goals on Biron to blame.

 

But the calls for Dennis are ridiculous. We have NEVER seen the guy play! He has NEVER played an NHL game, and has played 5 whole games as a pro. FIVE! Marty has won more games this season in the NHL and he hasn't even played well. You have all the evidence in the world that if the team plays well in front of him, Biron wins. He's not perfect, but he wins more often than not ... isn't that the textbook definition of a backup goalie?

 

Yet you want to throw a rookie out there against Crosby and Malkin who you have no idea what you are getting and maybe lose a 6-5 game? Really? In the process screwing with Marty's head and maybe making Miller rush back, and if he gets hurt again all of a sudden you NEED Marty again?

 

YES, that's all B.S. speculation, I don't think ANY of that would happen. But hey, if you guys can assume based on nothing that Dennis is better than a guy who has been a pro for 10 years, I can assume the worst possible scenario.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

Let's play guess the goalie..........

 

From 2003-current

W-L-T GAA SV%

 

Goalie#1 53-27-5 2.51 .909

 

Goalie#2 45-26-1 2.71 .908

Your choices are:

 

Marty Biron

 

Ryan Miller

Interesting people forget how well Marty played during the time Ryan was out last year. there is no debate about who is the guy I want in net when its crunch time and thats miller but marty provided that good backup scenario.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Let's play guess the goalie..........

 

From 2003-current

 

W-L-T GAA SV%

 

Goalie#1 53-27-5 2.51 .909

 

Goalie#2 45-26-1 2.71 .908

 

Your choices are:

 

Marty Biron

 

Ryan Miller

 

C'mon, even as a Marty supporter I have to say that is unfair. Biron played most of his career in the old NHL on a team that was very responsible defensively. Plus, his numbers have pretty much gotten worse. On the other hand, Miller keeps getting better. I would never suggest they are the same guy right now, Miller is the better player. But that doesn't change anything i said in my previous diatribe.

[Done]

The good thing is, I don't think this is even a debate at the rink. If Ruff saw this thread, he'd probably almost break out into a laugh.

 

I'm not saying Marty should be starting over Miller....I just think that some here have a valuation problem. By me saying Marty should be starting for 1/3 of the teams in the league doesn't mean I am saying he is the MVP.....it means that by starting for 33% of the league, he would be a BELOW AVERAGE STARTING GOALTENDER.

 

He is a top backup, and I have no problem paying him $2 million. Marty is Marty....Miller's peak is still unkown. He may be a top 3 goalie, or he may retire in 2 years ala Ricky Williams. He's one out there cat.

[X. Benedict]

Revisionist history. ....... scenario.

 

Very well said. I concur on every point.