Top Selling Jerseys in the League

[Bmwolf21]

Well if the logo was as bad as everyone says, people wouldn't be buying it. It might not be the best but it isn't as bad as everyone here is making it out to be. Merchandise is selling and that is all that matters.

That's a pretty simplistic view, and I think you know it. There are a lot more factors that go into the purchase of new merchandise than "oooh, logo BAD" or "oooh, me like LOGO." I would bet my house that if the team were coming off a playoff non-qual year and were struggling like the Flyers, Sabres' merchandise sales wouldn't be anywhere near the levels they are at.

 

Dave, you're looking at this from a Buffalo only perspective. I was under the impression that the 85% increase was a league-wide figure. Yes, your points do cover an increase in Buffalo, but but that 85% increase was not covered by Buffalo fans alone. There's a lot of other things going on here:

-the game is more entertaining

-the emergence of new superstars, the Ovechkins and Crosbys of the league

 

I think those are the two major one's, but I could go on and on here listing others. As I said earlier, it's a good sign for the league. Hopefully these number continue to increase (a little extra tv exposure sure as hell wouldn't hurt).

 

Buffalo wasn't the only team coming off a lockout last year, and when the NHL came back, a lot of fans were TICKED and probably didn't bought little, if any merchandise. Your theory about the game is more entertaining and there are more superstars might be a factor, but then why are merchandise sales up and attendance down?

 

Fact is, we will probably never know what context this 85% increase is in, so we can't tell if that is "hey, greta numbers this year, blew away last year's great numbers" or if it's "85% increase- well after last year all we could do was go up."

[shrader]

Didn't Hopelessly already say that the increase is compared to last year at this time? What more context do you need?

[Taro T]

Is this because I mentioned how long winded you tend to be or is it because you think I'm too stupid to read that many words. :o :lol: :unsure: :angry:

It would be the former.

[Taro T]

Dave, you're looking at this from a Buffalo only perspective. I was under the impression that the 85% increase was a league-wide figure. Yes, your points do cover an increase in Buffalo, but but that 85% increase was not covered by Buffalo fans alone. There's a lot of other things going on here:

-the game is more entertaining

-the emergence of new superstars, the Ovechkins and Crosbys of the league

 

I think those are the two major one's, but I could go on and on here listing others. As I said earlier, it's a good sign for the league. Hopefully these number continue to increase (a little extra tv exposure sure as hell wouldn't hurt).

No, I'm not only looking at it from a Buffalo only perspective. Leaguewide, there was no reason for people to go shelling out bucks on merchandise last October. Even though there were people, such as myself, who couldn't stay away from the game, it didn't mean that people wanted to "reward" the league for missing an entire year's worth of play by rushing out and buying merchandise. Especially when nobody knew for certain that the league would remain serious past November with their enforcement crackdown. The odds were better than in the past that they were serious, but the track record wasn't encouraging.

 

I'd be amazed if merchandise sales last October were more than 25% of what they were in October of '03.

 

You are right, overall the league has a more entertaining product and people know what to expect in the speed of play and in the enforcement of rules. This is helping to boost merchandise sales. The league is also FINALLY attempting to market individual players. Hopefully, we will see that outside hockey specific venues. Let's see an Ovechkin Chunky Soup commercial run during Sports Center, etc..

 

But the BIGGEST reason merchandise sales leaguewide are up 85% right now is NO ONE ANYWHERE was buying merchandise last October.

[Robviously]

So people who want to feel a part of the groundswell go out and buy what they can. (Actually, this season I've bought about 7 t-shirts and 3 pucks. But not one has had the abominable snot smear on it.) I will be extremely surprised if when the league / Reebok / Sabres start making this year's 3rd available that it won't outsell the other 2 sweaters combined. I honestly haven't decided whether I think the 3rds aren't available due to incompetence in somebody's marketing department (NHL, Reebok, or Sabres) or if it is part of a CYA scheme to make the abominable snot smear not look like the disaster it is. It actually may be a combination.

I own every Sabres jersey ever made. I have the home and road originals and all three versions of the red and black. And I was really looking forward to the new uniforms because I'd finally have something new to buy and wear to the games (first time since 2000 when the reds came out). And when I saw the leaked banana slug, my heart sank. And when I stood up to cheer the players skating out in the new jerseys last month, I took one look at what Reebok came up with decided there was no way I was buying any of that crap. I'll buy some new blue and gold stuff for sure but I have no interest in owning or wearing the banana slug.

 

I was thinking I'd buy a Tallinder throwback but now I'm thinking I want a Drury throwback. I may buy both. The throwback looks better 1. every time they wear it and 2. every time they don't wear it and they wear the other things.

 

I love sports uniforms. I'll buy stuff for teams that aren't even my favorite if I think it's cool. I plunked down money for an authentic 2001 Toronto Blue Jays home jersey because it had an awesome sleeve patch commemorating the team's 25th season and another patch for the 100th season of the American League. I own a New Era Detroit Tigers road cap because I decided a few years back that I liked the olde english D. I'm saving up for a Mitchell & Ness Jackie Robinson jersey as we speak. I'm not even averse to buying ugly uniforms for teams that I love. I own a authentic 2001 Anaheim Angels Tim Salmon road jersey. It's gray with blue sleeves and blue pinstripes and "ANGELS" written in big red cartoon Disney letters on the chest but I still paid a bunch of money for it.

 

And yet I never want to own a banana slug jersey. It represents everything that's wrong with sports uniforms. It's tacky. It's trendy. It's way too busy. It offers no connection to the team's history. It does nothing to represent tradition in the city of Buffalo. It looks bad on the players. It looks bad on the people in the crowd. It was created by a massive corporation that did everything but listen to the fans in Buffalo. Against all odds, Reebok came up with a Sabres uniform so terrible that even I won't buy it. That is incredible.

[shrader]

But the BIGGEST reason merchandise sales leaguewide are up 85% right now is NO ONE ANYWHERE was buying merchandise last October.

 

I wish I had some way to back this up, but I don't believe that this is true. Obviously sales were going to be down quite a bit, but I think there is enough of a loyal fanbase out there that was still buying merchandise.

[apuszczalowski]

I have only heard that it was an 85% increase over sales from last year, may be from last year at this time, or last year in general

 

I own every Sabres jersey ever made. I have the home and road originals and all three versions of the red and black. And I was really looking forward to the new uniforms because I'd finally have something new to buy and wear to the games (first time since 2000 when the reds came out). And when I saw the leaked banana slug, my heart sank. And when I stood up to cheer the players skating out in the new jerseys last month, I took one look at what Reebok came up with decided there was no way I was buying any of that crap. I'll buy some new blue and gold stuff for sure but I have no interest in owning or wearing the banana slug.

 

And this is just helping to prove my point that if they were really as bed as everyone says they are on this board, they would not be selling

[Taro T]

I have only heard that it was an 85% increase over sales from last year, may be from last year at this time, or last year in general

And this is just helping to prove my point that if they were really as bed as everyone says they are on this board, they would not be selling

How is SnR, a person that owns several Sabres sweaters, NOT buying an abominable snot smear proving your point that they aren't that bad?

[Bmwolf21]

Didn't Hopelessly already say that the increase is compared to last year at this time? What more context do you need?

To start, the context I would be looking for is where did October 2005 rank in relation to an average month of merchandise/jersey sales. If Oct 2005 was way below average (which is what some of us believe) then does that 85% increase bring Oct 2006 up to an average NHL month, is it below their usual monthly sales, is it more?

 

If you want a truly apples-to-apples comparison of the Sabres new jersey sales, you'd have to see how sales of the new jerseys compare to sales of the B&R in their first month of availability.

 

An abtract from the Sporting Goods Manufacturers Association report:

Of the six major categories (NFL, Major League Baseball, NBA, NHL, NASCAR, and colleges/universities) featured in SGMA?s Sports Licensing White Paper (2006 edition), only sales of NHL products dropped in 2005 compared with 2004. The decline in sales of NHL merchandise was due to the lockout that cancelled the 2004-05 season.

 

http://www.sgma.com/storelistitem.cfm?itemnumber=97

 

(The report is like $525, so I won't be shelling that out to make a point.)

 

We can go in circles all day long on this, but my main point (and others, as well) is that saying sales of something are up 85% is kind of meaningless, unless there is more info to go with it. If someone in baseball is hitting .120, and increases his BA to .222, that's an 85% increase - but it's still a crappy batting average.

[Robviously]

And this is just helping to prove my point that if they were really as bed as everyone says they are on this board, they would not be selling

How on earth does me not wanting to own a Sabres jersey for the first time in my life prove they aren't bad?

 

(I can't wait to hear this.)

[apuszczalowski]

How is SnR, a person that owns several Sabres sweaters, NOT buying an abominable snot smear proving your point that they aren't that bad?

Because as he said in the quote from my post, He says he will not buy one because the logo is so horrible. I had said that people are buying them (more then any other jersey in the NHL currently)

 

Around here everyone is making it sound like the enitire city of Buffalo hates this logo (along with the rest of the world) Yet if people hate it so much, why are they buying the merchandise with the logo? Maybe the logo haters are the minority and people don't find them as bad as everyone does here?

[Taro T]

Because as he said in the quote from my post, He says he will not buy one because the logo is so horrible. I had said that people are buying them (more then any other jersey in the NHL currently)

 

Around here everyone is making it sound like the enitire city of Buffalo hates this logo (along with the rest of the world) Yet if people hate it so much, why are they buying the merchandise with the logo? Maybe the logo haters are the minority and people don't find them as bad as everyone does here?

Although we have been through this several times, sure I'll play along and try one more time.

 

There are several reasons that the abominable snot smear is selling, none of which have to do with it not sucking. Although few of these reasons stand on their own to get someone to buy an abominable snot smear, taken together they can get someone to pinch their nose and buy it anyhow.

 

1. People haven't bought much, if any, Sabres merchandise in the past 2+ years due to the lockout and the announcement by the Sabres that B&G was on its way.

 

2. There is a real Sabres fever being caught in WNY and people want to be a part of it. 1 way to be a part of it is to buy tix. The Sabres have already sold more tix for this season than they did all of last season. The other way to be a part of the "excitement" is to buy Sabres merchandise.

 

3. Unfortunately, for those that chose option B - buy merchandise, there is NO OPTION C - buy good merchandise. You cannot find Sabres 3rd sweaters currently. They are not available. Whether that is due to a marketing screw up or an intentional ploy to make it look like the abominable snot smear was a good idea is immaterial. If you want to buy Sabres merchandise, you either have to buy the abominable snot smear (or the blue or gold b), leftover R&B, or find the little bit of true "vintage" stuff that is floating around via 3rd channels. You can't walk into the Sabres Store and buy a size 48 proweight Jaroslav Spacek 3rd sweater off the rack. It isn't friggin' there. You also can't buy a Miller, Tallinder, or pick your choice of 19 other players.

 

4. Even when the 3rds do become available, some people will hold off on buying them because Larry Quinn is on record as saying they will change their color in the near future. For the same reason people held off on buying R&B last year, A FEW people may hold off on buying the 3rd when and IF it becomes available.

 

5. You will always have some people that have to be the 1st on their block with any new toy, no matter how useless it is. You are probably too young to remember pet rocks and mood rings, but the fact that a lot of people bought them didn't mean my opinion that they were stupid fads wasn't correct. You were going to sell some new sweaters even if they were a cross between the Vancouver "V"'s AND the Gorton's fisherman.

 

6. There are a few (and until I see evidence otherwise, I will continue to believe it is a FEW) people that truly like the new logo. To those people, I say more power to you and God bless. Our tastes are completely different.

 

If the Sabres weren't on their longest regular season winning streak ever, the team weren't off to one of its 2 best starts ever, people didn't believe they have a very legitimate chance at making it to the Conference Finals or beyond; then the abominable snot smear probably wouldn't sell at all.

 

The way the team is playing and the love affair with the team that has been rekindled is leading people to suck it up and buy stuff even though it has the most ridiculed logo since the Gorton's fisherman on it. That's not just me claiming its being riduculed. Look around at ANY hockey related media outlet (w/ the possible exception of WGR) or website and EVERYONE (note for Shrader, the word everyone is a SLIGHT exaggeration used to connote the vast majority of people) is laughing at the logo. Many are laughing at the rest of the uniforms as well.

 

As well as the abominable snot smears sell, GOOD unis would have sold better. And that is the bottom line.

[Robviously]

Because as he said in the quote from my post, He says he will not buy one because the logo is so horrible. I had said that people are buying them (more then any other jersey in the NHL currently)

To be clear, I won't buy a jersey because both the logo and the uniform itself are completely horrible. I won't buy other merchandise because I hate the logo so much.

 

Why is this stuff selling at all?

1. It's new. Nothing ever happens in Buffalo and people are desperate for something to be exciting about. The weather sucks. The economy sucks. The city skyline has been the same for decades. We've had an empty stadium downtown for 10 years and we're going to tear it down to put up a fishing store (maybe). The waterfront is always 10 years away from being developed. Weren't we supposed to build a new bridge to Canada? Whatever. I remember people waiting in line for hours the day Krispy Kreme donuts came to town. Why? Because we'd never had those donuts before. It doesn't mean anything because years later that same KK is out of business now.

 

2. It's blue and gold. Even if you hate the logo and the convoluted jersey design, you like the colors. Like I said before in this thread, the new logo could be Larry Quinn's face and people would buy it if it was blue and gold.

 

3. The team is incredible. There was a huge rush to the souvenir stands last night during the second intermission. Even I walked over to check things out (though I was looking for classic logo stuff).

 

And even if you still somehow think the banana slug designs are really cool and everyone likes them, there's no way you can say that the John Slabyk designs wouldn't have still been more cool and more popular and would sell much better in the long run.

[shrader]

To start, the context I would be looking for is where did October 2005 rank in relation to an average month of merchandise/jersey sales. If Oct 2005 was way below average (which is what some of us believe) then does that 85% increase bring Oct 2006 up to an average NHL month, is it below their usual monthly sales, is it more?

 

If you want a truly apples-to-apples comparison of the Sabres new jersey sales, you'd have to see how sales of the new jerseys compare to sales of the B&R in their first month of availability.

 

I'm not talking about the Sabres jerseys at all here. League-wide, sales are up, on average. This is a good thing.

 

Why is it more meaningful to you to compare October sales to, say, March sales? October is most directly comparable to October. I think we'll all agree that the sales as a whole will increase over the course of the season, so when December and March roll around, let's compare those numbers to previous December's and March's.

 

As for your point about numbers being very poor last year due to the lockout, at this point, we might as well treat that season as a new begining. The league is essentially starting over. An 81% growth may not bring them up to a figure they want to see, but you have to start somewhere. You're not going to see an instantaneous leap up the NFL sales levels.

[inkman]

I remember people waiting in line for hours the day Krispy Kreme donuts came to town. Why? Because we'd never had those donuts before. It doesn't mean anything...

 

I think it means Buffalo is full of fat, bored people. As is Rochester, we had the KK buzz as well. At least our fat person gathering place is still there. :rolleyes:

[Bmwolf21]

I guess we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, because in my experience, percentages make it very easy to hide the true numbers. An 85% increase is great, but what is the 85% an increase from? Go back before Oct 2005, if you want to throw out the first post-lockout season - how does Oct 2006 compare to Oct 2003, 2002, 2001?

 

Yes, sales are up, 85%, and that's good. But we don't know how good, since we have no basis for comparison, save one month from last year. To be honest, it sounds like a number you would hear a politician throw out in an interview, and I have seen only this blog that talks about the jersey sales increase:

Also note that, from Sept. 23-Oct. 16, sales of Buffalo Sabres merchandise was up almost 900% compared to the same period a year ago. Which either tells you that lots of people in WNY got high-speed Internet connections within the past year, or that team executives loaded up on Christmas presents in an attempt to boost early sales figures, or that virtually any new logo will move product (a theory that Agent Zero proferred in arguing the Wiz should go back to red, white and blue unis), or that the Sabres Slug isn't really that bad after all. Or maybe a combination thereof. Personally, I love the return to the old colors, and find the slug charmingly ambiguous, but then I never thought Gunston was that bad of a mascot either.

 

I think Jerry Sullivan has a better reason, IMO:

Just in time for Tuesday's national TV game, the NHL announced that the Sabres have the top-selling jerseys on the league's Web site. That's nice, but it's hardly earth-shattering to know that a franchise with three new jerseys would be peddling more gear than any other team in hockey.

 

It's not the sweaters, folks. It's the guys inside them. The Sabres could put that hideous new logo on white muscle undershirts and Nehru jackets and they'd be flying off the shelves in record numbers. The fans love this team, and who can blame them?

 

Either way, if fans like the logo and are buying stuff they like to support the team, good for them and for the Sabres. I can only hope that the vintage sales make enough of an impact that the Sabres tweak the logo and sell even more stuff next year. It is funny though, and I have to go back to this - average league attendance is down approx. 500 fans per game - yet Bettman says it's too early to start worrying about attendance - but not too early to start celebrating merchandise sales, I guess. <_<

[shrader]

I guess we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, because in my experience, percentages make it very easy to hide the true numbers. An 85% increase is great, but what is the 85% an increase from? Go back before Oct 2005, if you want to throw out the first post-lockout season - how does Oct 2006 compare to Oct 2003, 2002, 2001?

 

I wasn't saying we should throw away last season. I said that should be the new starting point. The pre-lockout game/revenue structure is gone. They're starting over from scratch (ie: last season). Sales have gone up (league-wide) compared to this time last year. That's progress.

 

And if you don't like using percentages, you better stay away from any kind of research. It's the basis for essentially everything.

 

Yes, sales are up, 85%, and that's good. But we don't know how good, since we have no basis for comparison, save one month from last year. To be honest, it sounds like a number you would hear a politician throw out in an interview, and I have seen only this blog that talks about the jersey sales increase:

 

I think Jerry Sullivan has a better reason, IMO:

Either way, if fans like the logo and are buying stuff they like to support the team, good for them and for the Sabres. I can only hope that the vintage sales make enough of an impact that the Sabres tweak the logo and sell even more stuff next year. It is funny though, and I have to go back to this - average league attendance is down approx. 500 fans per game - yet Bettman says it's too early to start worrying about attendance - but not too early to start celebrating merchandise sales, I guess. <_<

 

If we're talking about a league-wide increase in sales, the Sabres jerseys are only a very small part of that figure. What was it, 10% of the entire sales on the website are Sabre related? I don't understand why you're using this to shoot down the 85% increase in sales. Even if those numbers drop off, total sales league-wide still stay up.

[Bmwolf21]

I wasn't saying we should throw away last season. I said that should be the new starting point. The pre-lockout game/revenue structure is gone. They're starting over from scratch (ie: last season). Sales have gone up (league-wide) compared to this time last year. That's progress.

This will be my last post on this debate, b/c you don't seem to either understand or concede that any of my points have merit, even though I have conceded some of yours. You can't say the NHL is completely starting over from scratch, because they aren't a brand new league in all new markets with brand-new fanbases. If the NHL had completely rebranded itself, with new teams, new markets, new names, etc., then you could make a point for excluding pre-lockout sales, but since the fans buying stuff in 2006 are mostly the same fans that bought merchandise before the lockout, you have to include previous years' numbers in order to properly gauge whether the 85% increase is significant.

And if you don't like using percentages, you better stay away from any kind of research. It's the basis for essentially everything.

Having worked in both retail management and public relations, I know exactly how percentages can be spun to make it seem more significant than they a really are. Thanks for that tip, but I don't plan on doing any scientific research anytime soon.

If we're talking about a league-wide increase in sales, the Sabres jerseys are only a very small part of that figure. What was it, 10% of the entire sales on the website are Sabre related? I don't understand why you're using this to shoot down the 85% increase in sales. Even if those numbers drop off, total sales league-wide still stay up

I guess I am not exactly excited about seeing a vague number like 85% without seeing it in context, but some people are. And if you don't think that 1 small-market team out of 30 accounting for 10% of the league's merchandise sales is significant, then that explains our disconnect on this topic.

[Raelity]

I can't recall the announcer's name, but I was pretty surprised when I tuned into ESPN news after the Carolina game and he started off with "... despite having unquestionably the ugliest uniforms in the league, the Buffalo Sabres continued their dominating play..."

 

So it's not just people in Buffalo that notice the slug is fuggly.

 

That said - as said by many so far, the Sabres are starting out hot - and were a hot team in the playoffs last year - so ANY Sabre jersey would sell.

 

Like many, I wish they were better, but I'd rather see an ugly jersey hoisting the cup than a great one missing the playoffs!