Rumor mill

[rickshaw]

You must be right :lol:

 

Becasue of Lydman players like Connolly have come into their own. It is because of Lydman that a bunch of kids from the ROC have made a huge impact. It is because of Lydman that Ryan Miller had a great start. It's because of Lydman both Marty and Mika have played well. It is because of Lydman the Sabres PP is at the top of the league.

 

The man is a GOD.

 

You might want to take a closer look at the Islanders and maybe form an opinion based on fact.

 

Let's compare shall we?

 

Goals : Z 3 - Lydman 1

Assists : Z 17 - Lydman 7

Points : Z 20 - Lydman 8

+/- : Z -3 - Lydman +2 (-3 is bad? What is Drury's, Campbell's and Griers -9 each?)

 

And for those who wan to talk money? Lydman makes 46% less the Z and has 60% less production. Z may make more money but you get what you pay for. :rolleyes:

deluca

 

are you a fan of the Sabres??

 

cuz if you are, you sure have a funny way of showing it.

 

either you are with the sabres or you are with the guys that left or were dealt away.

 

zhitnik is not worth the money he makes. he is on a team with some superstar talent yet his team is behind the sabres.

 

i have honestly never read a more negative person than you in my life. either you ARE A SABRES FAN, or you aren't. make up your mind dude.

[rickshaw]

Instead of going around and around over the same old crap. Here is something to ponder.

 

The Sabres made an offer to Z. It was over $3 million a year. Z didn't sign because he didn't think the Sabres could win.

 

Every palyer who was asked, and you can check the WGR Audio Vault if it goes back that far, said what a big loss it was not to have Z.

 

So for all you "assclowns" who think the Sabres didn't want him or the price was too high, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

The fact is Darcy couldn't sell him on the direction the team was going. The same failure he had with Francis and Aucoin.

 

The Sabres are playing well. They can be better.

What team can't play better??

 

Deluca,

 

you are a disturbed, grumpy old man.

 

merry christmas.

[rickshaw]

You used to bash Regier for not signing Satan. Have you finally seen the light on that one?

 

I've already posted my opinions on Lydman on this forum. It's no coincidence that we're, what, 11 games over .500 with him in the lineup? He's as good of a defensman as Zhitnik. He's better positionally, he's a better stickchecker, he's smarter, and he's more disciplined. I'll gladly take group A and save the $1.5 million. I would choose group A if the money was even. Zhitnik was one of the main reason's our powerplay was so bad for so long. He's a horse and a very good d-man, but not worth $3.5 million a year. We're a much better team with Lydman.

 

You wanted to sign Zhitnik and Satan. What players do you get rid of with the $7.755 million you need to clear? Lydman doesn't get traded to us, there's $1.9 million. Connolly probably doesn't get qualified, we're up to $2.9 million. Many fans didn't think Kotalik had a spot in the top 12, $3.7. Maybe this forces Regier to get rid of Biron, $5.9 million. Grier is a valuable player, but our hands are tied, up to $7.2; getting close now DeLuca. But wait, we need 4 replacement players. We still need to clear $2 million. I guess we can't sign Teppo, too expensive.

 

So you've got Satan, Zhitnik, and 4 guys making $450,000.

 

I've got Lydman, Connolly, Kotalik, Biron, Grier, and Teppo.

 

These aren't exagerations either, I'm using the offseason moves thread over at HF. These are consensus decisions made by people like you DeLuca.

 

You've got the core of a team that's missed the playoffs every year since Hasek left.

 

I've got one of the best up and coming teams in the NHL.

 

Keep hating DeLuca, the Sabres are making you look like a fool.

MLH

 

Outstanding posts.

 

You my friend, obviously like your team and also have the knowlege to back up your comments.

 

Well said. Well said.

[Taro T]

This doesn't really qualify as "rumor mill" because it is my own speculation, but does anybody think the Sabres might try to work out a trade w/ Chicago for Aucoin? The Sabres are on record as being interested in him and Chicago does not appear to be going anywhere with him. I'm not sure what the Sabres would have to give up to get him, as Chicago is not looking for a #1 goalie since they have Khabibulin, but Marty or Mika would be an upgrade to Anderson in my opinion. If Buffalo offered Marty, Max, and a highish draft pick (say 2nd or 3rd), would Chicago go for the trade? Chicago's payroll would go down by ~$1MM. I don't have any reason to believe this trade might be in the works but I don't think it is totally outrageous. I don't think Buffalo's payroll going up by ~$1MM is a deal breaker as the Sabres expect to make a slight profit with their current lineup and no playoffs and expect each playoff round to add ~$1MM to the coffers. Having a healthy Aucoin would bolster the Sabres already reasonable playoff chances, IMHO.

 

The fact he has a groin injury might temper the Sabres interest in him, but I have not heard how serious it is yet and know he is not on the IR list yet, so I am assuming the injury isn't that serious.

 

Like I said, this is purely speculation on my part. I'd be interested in hearing if people think it is totally off-base or if it might be something worth the Sabres pursuing.

[DrunkenSabre]

50 PIMS? From a physical player? I never heard of such a thing?

 

Better defensive play? Teppo & Lydman are a +4. Z is a -1? Not a huge margin but technically correct.

 

You are right about another thing P. Lydman & Teppo are as good combined as Z. It's because they are each half the player Z is. You stated it just fine. 2 players combined equal the production of Z. Thanks for making my argument. You did it better then I did.

 

How does two players (combined) doing the job one player equal depth? Wouldn't one player doing the job of two be betetr?

 

And of course there is always "the every penalty Zhitnik takes beats his team" posts. They are just like the all of Miro Satan's goals are empty netters or come in Sabres blowouts.

 

I am sure that the 36 minutes (which is kinda high for two soft defensemen) are game saving penalties taken at the best possible time.

 

Back to Z.

 

Did the Sabres win that game 1-0? I don't recall. If not? Wouldn't you have to say that there were many plays in a game the cause a lose? When you lose 6-4 and give up 4 power play goals it falls on one player?

 

Face it P. You're just like the little kid down the street who has a friend move off the block. Instead of saying good bye and being happy for them. You cry and call them names and say how much you hate them.

 

I hope these boards stay around a while. I would like to see how much you hate Lydman and Teppo when they leave and don't live up to your inflated expectations.

I'd rather have Numminen and Lydman than Zhitnik and his bad play. Z is overpaid and not playing as well as he should do. he still takes bad penalties and he may have assists, but i bet the sabres wouldnt be on the run we are now with him rather than lydman and numminen. as far as building a team goes, lydman and numminen were recommended by players already here, and Z isnt missed. what does that tell you?

 

each to their own, but IMHO i like our current team. Z is hated by NYI fans and management and they have him for 4 years. good riddence.

[inkman]

I specifically was watching the D during last nights game and they could desperately use a veteran calming influence right now. I see a lot of panic and chasing in the defensive zone.

 

Don't get me wrong they are playing decent but too many times they have a real problem getting the damn puck out of the zone.

[Guest AT]

I don't see panic on the part of the defense. What you are actually seeing is how to play in your own end under the new rules (i.e. without obstruction.) I have been watching the Sens a bit (when the Sabres are not playing) and they often go 30 or more seconds in there end in a similar fashion to the Sabres before they clear the zone or start a counter rush. As long as the puck-carrier is forced to work along the boards and/or in the corners, with their backs to the net, the D are doing their job.

 

And speaking of D, what a great game McKee had last night! Not only did he have 7 blocked shots (7! -- I wonder if the league has a record stat for this category?), but he also played an amazing defensive game, breaking up plays and -- what he does a lot of too -- taking the puck-carrier out of the play, leaving a team-mate to get control of the puck. He should have been one of the three stars! (I thought he looked really good working with Lydman.)

 

AT

[pwner]

This doesn't really qualify as "rumor mill" because it is my own speculation, but does anybody think the Sabres might try to work out a trade w/ Chicago for Aucoin? The Sabres are on record as being interested in him and Chicago does not appear to be going anywhere with him. I'm not sure what the Sabres would have to give up to get him, as Chicago is not looking for a #1 goalie since they have Khabibulin, but Marty or Mika would be an upgrade to Anderson in my opinion. If Buffalo offered Marty, Max, and a highish draft pick (say 2nd or 3rd), would Chicago go for the trade? Chicago's payroll would go down by ~$1MM. I don't have any reason to believe this trade might be in the works but I don't think it is totally outrageous. I don't think Buffalo's payroll going up by ~$1MM is a deal breaker as the Sabres expect to make a slight profit with their current lineup and no playoffs and expect each playoff round to add ~$1MM to the coffers. Having a healthy Aucoin would bolster the Sabres already reasonable playoff chances, IMHO.

 

The fact he has a groin injury might temper the Sabres interest in him, but I have not heard how serious it is yet and know he is not on the IR list yet, so I am assuming the injury isn't that serious.

 

Like I said, this is purely speculation on my part. I'd be interested in hearing if people think it is totally off-base or if it might be something worth the Sabres pursuing.

Its hilarious that Aucoin chose the Blackhawks over the Sabres for a little more cash and because Peca is a whiner. I'm sure he's happy toiling away there.

 

We've pwned the Blackhawks before on trades, I don't see why we couldn't again.

 

However, I think a trade with the Blue Jackets for Foote is more likely.

[Stoner]

Long-time lurker starting to post a little more here... I can't believe these attacks on a fellow fan. You might not like what DeLuca is saying or how he says it, but how anyone can say he doesn't want the Sabres to win, or isn't a "real fan," is beyond me. (Not to mix the dead serious with the totally trivial, but it reminds me of the debate about the War in Iraq. Many people seem to think if you oppose the war or the president's conduct of the war, you are against the troops. That's totally unfair.)

 

Like me (and the 6,000 fans dressed as blue seats last night), DeLuca is just sick of the losing. I'd be very careful about throwing the Sabres' relatively brief winning ways in his face as a vindication of Darcy's "plan." Let's talk in June. So far, so good.

[inkman]

Its hilarious that Aucoin chose the Blackhawks over the Sabres for a little more cash and because Peca is a whiner. I'm sure he's happy toiling away there.

 

We've pwned the Blackhawks before on trades, I don't see why we couldn't again.

 

However, I think a trade with the Blue Jackets for Foote is more likely.

Could you explain the "pwner" thing?

[nfreeman]

This doesn't really qualify as "rumor mill" because it is my own speculation, but does anybody think the Sabres might try to work out a trade w/ Chicago for Aucoin? The Sabres are on record as being interested in him and Chicago does not appear to be going anywhere with him. I'm not sure what the Sabres would have to give up to get him, as Chicago is not looking for a #1 goalie since they have Khabibulin, but Marty or Mika would be an upgrade to Anderson in my opinion. If Buffalo offered Marty, Max, and a highish draft pick (say 2nd or 3rd), would Chicago go for the trade? Chicago's payroll would go down by ~$1MM. I don't have any reason to believe this trade might be in the works but I don't think it is totally outrageous. I don't think Buffalo's payroll going up by ~$1MM is a deal breaker as the Sabres expect to make a slight profit with their current lineup and no playoffs and expect each playoff round to add ~$1MM to the coffers. Having a healthy Aucoin would bolster the Sabres already reasonable playoff chances, IMHO.

 

The fact he has a groin injury might temper the Sabres interest in him, but I have not heard how serious it is yet and know he is not on the IR list yet, so I am assuming the injury isn't that serious.

 

Like I said, this is purely speculation on my part. I'd be interested in hearing if people think it is totally off-base or if it might be something worth the Sabres pursuing.

 

daveb -- I initially balked at the idea of parting with Max for anyone, but then I saw the following about Aucoin on Chicago's website:

 

 

2003-04: Finished 5th in voting for the Norris Trophy...Played in his first NHL All-Star Game...Set a career high in points with 44...Second on the team with a career best 31 assists...Tied for third among NHL blueliners and ranked seventh overall with a team-best plus-29 rating...Third in the NHL in total time on ice (2,157:05)...Fourth in the NHL in TOI/game (26:37)...Named NHL Defensive Player of the Week for the week of Nov. 3

 

 

Pretty impressive -- he could be the true #1 defenseman I have been craving. He's also had 23 goals in a season (in 98-99; last year he had 13 for the Isles). A few concerns:

 

1. he's 32 and high-mileage -- and currently injured

 

2. not much career playoff experience

 

3. I have no idea about leadership qualities

 

Frankly, I just haven't watched enough non-sabres hockey to say whether I like him or not. If he's healthy, a good skater and a good leader I would probably make the trade you propose (although I'd rather part with Roy than Max, and Vanek and Kotalik are NFW). Also, since Aucoin plays so much, Chicago might want a good defenseman in return rather than a forward -- and I'd give them any of ours plus Marty and Roy for him.

 

Let me talk to Darcy and see what I can work out.

 

Go Sabres.

[MLH]

I can't believe these attacks on a fellow fan. You might not like what DeLuca is saying or how he says it, but how anyone can say he doesn't want the Sabres to win, or isn't a "real fan," is beyond me. (Not to mix the dead serious with the totally trivial, but it reminds me of the debate about the War in Iraq. Many people seem to think if you oppose the war or the president's conduct of the war, you are against the troops. That's totally unfair.)

 

Like me (and the 6,000 fans dressed as blue seats last night), DeLuca is just sick of the losing. I'd be very careful about throwing the Sabres' relatively brief winning ways in his face as a vindication of Darcy's "plan." Let's talk in June. So far, so good.

DeLuca is not a Sabre fan, at least not right now. I'm sure at some point he liked the Sabres, but he's become blinded by his hatred for our general manager. He would prefer to have his ridiculous preseason claims justified than having the team he supposedly roots for succeed. Every time we win a game, it makes DeLuca look a little more foolish. I have no problem with critiicizing those in charge, but when it's pathetic when it gets to the point that your hatred for the "President" gets in the way of you supporting your "country". DeLuca is a downer, the kind of person that no one wants to hear especially when things are going well.

 

I've never seen a person be more wrong about everything they say than DeLuca. I wouldn't really care that he was so inaccurate if he would just admit when he's wrong. However, he just won't stop bashing. He can't see that we're doing very well with Darcy's plan. He's living in some idealistic wonderworld where we could be doing better if we signed Zhitnik and Satan, completely disregarding the butterfly effect that would accompany those signings.

 

DeLuca isn't sick of losing, he's sick of Regier. We're not losing now and DeLuca is unhappy. He'd be in a much better mood if we were 10-18-1 because then we wouldn't look like the moron he currently does. At this point, he's actually a fan of the opposition. He wants us to lose. I'm sure he'll say the only reason that he wants us to lose is because it will ultimately lead to Regier's dismissal, but that (in my opinion) is no excuse. You root for your team, that's the definiton of a fan. I'm not sure why people keep referencing the seats when we're going to make more than $15 million more than in years past. Attendance has been better than usual and revenues are higher.

 

I agree that it's still too early. I said as much in my previous posts. That still doesn't change the fact that all signs point to us heading in a very positive direction under the leadership of Darcy Regier. DeLuca can't handle that. He's very depressed, perhaps we should leave him alone.

[shrader]

Other than the fact that Aucoin is a damn good defenseman, I'd also love to see him play here because that would give us another BU guy.

[Stoner]

He can't see that we're doing very well with Darcy's plan.

What is Darcy's plan? Not your interpretation of what he is doing, but his actual plan, in his own words? What has he said on the record? Is there a statement of this plan at sabres.com? I remember back in 95 in the wake of a high-priced team getting bounced from the playoffs in the first round that John Muckler came out and addressed the fans and very honestly told them his plan was to get younger and quicker and hungrier -- and cheaper, for the time being. I appreciated that. Other than Darcy's infamous statement about the fans needing an "education," I don't remember any communication with us about what his plan is. I'm afraid some people are mistaking a lack of a plan, or a plan merely to get younger and cheaper, and stay that way, for a plan. I hope I'm wrong. I hope what we are seeing now is the plan, and that the plan is to add talent (and thus payroll) if approaching the trade deadline the Sabres look like a team that can not only make the playoffs and make a little noise, but actually advance a round or two. That will be the real test of the plan, and Golisano's desire to win. And, of course, how they do in the free-agent market during the offseason.

[MLH]

He was on the record as saying he wanted to bring in smart puck-moving defensemen that could skate. He brought in Lydman, Teppo, and kept Campbell around when everone wanted him gone.

 

He was planning for this lockout three years ahead of time, builing a young, cheap, fast nucleus that grew together in years prior to the lockout. He had the foresight to see what was going to happen and put his stock into the owners winning the CBA war. He was right. We had the lowest turnover of any team in the NHL. Teams with extremely high turnover (Bruins, Penguins, etc) that were forecasted to be good have flopped.

 

He didn't give up on the players that everyone wanted out of town. If the fans had their way we would have gotten rid of Campbell, Connolly, Kotalik, Grier, and Biron. I don't know if you've realized, but these players are making significant impacts.

 

I hate to break it to you, but having a plan isn't about spending money via trades and free agent acquisitions. We have already seen the team he wanted to build, we're not going to see Buffalo go out and go crazy on free agents (nor would I want us to). He's dealing with a $28.6 millon cap and he's got a team that can both compete and make a profit. This isn't fantasy hockey.

 

We're going to see Darcy's plan based on how we fare in the standings, not the free agent market.

[Taro T]

He was on the record as saying he wanted to bring in smart puck-moving defensemen that could skate. He brought in Lydman, Teppo, and kept Campbell around when everone wanted him gone.

 

He was planning for this lockout three years ahead of time, builing a young, cheap, fast nucleus that grew together in years prior to the lockout. He had the foresight to see what was going to happen and put his stock into the owners winning the CBA war. He was right. We had the lowest turnover of any team in the NHL. Teams with extremely high turnover (Bruins, Penguins, etc) that were forecasted to be good have flopped.

 

He didn't give up on the players that everyone wanted out of town. If the fans had their way we would have gotten rid of Campbell, Connolly, Kotalik, Grier, and Biron. I don't know if you've realized, but these players are making significant impacts.

 

I hate to break it to you, but having a plan isn't about spending money via trades and free agent acquisitions. We have already seen the team he wanted to build, we're not going to see Buffalo go out and go crazy on free agents (nor would I want us to). He's dealing with a $28.6 millon cap and he's got a team that can both compete and make a profit. This isn't fantasy hockey.

 

We're going to see Darcy's plan based on how we fare in the standings, not the free agent market.

He definitely was planning for the lockout well before it occurred.

 

I don't know if it was foresight though, or just an acceptance of reality: the Sabres highest probability of being viable in a post-lockout world was one in which there was a salary cap. Since the Sabres likely would have been on their way out of town in a "luxury tax" system or at a minimum on the road to 2nd class status due to the high probability that they simply would not have been able to compete with the Detroits and Philadelphias unless they lucked into another Hasek-like player, there was little reason to try to build a team that would be set up to exist in a different competitive landscape. The Sabres did not have the resources to be competitive in that scenario, so they would necessarily have had a high probability of not being successful in that situation. Since the Sabres only chance to remain viable in a post-lockout world was with a salary cap, it made sense for management to plan as if it was a given that there would be a salary cap.

 

Long term, losing the '04-'05 season may end up being the best thing that could have happened for the Sabres. Had Goodenow not been so stubborn and actually come around to the idea of a cap, it likely would have ended up somewhere in the mid-40's, not 39. That would have put the Sabres at more of a competitive disadvantage because they still would have been targeting ~$29MM to try to be economically viable. I don't know if the team could have remained viable long term in a league where they were spending ~2/3 as much as the "top" teams vs. the current 3/4 (with the distinct possibility that they will be slightly closer to the top spenders next year due to either or both a lowered cap or expectations of more revenue generation next year as fans (hopefully) come back to the team (the SJ crowd was very encouraging)). Additionally, the league probably wouldn't have felt the need to "radically" change the rules and enforcement of the rules. That would have led to a less exciting product on the ice and would have led to the Sabres smallish forwards having more difficulty creating scoring chances than they are currently experiencing. A less exciting product would likely have had lower revenues than the team will have this year.

 

Having a relatively low priced young roster that can skate very well has been a major factor in the Sabres success this season. As the team only lost 2 top players to free agency and only signed 2 rostered free agents, it is obvious that the team was hoping the landscape to be roughly what it is. The interesting question is: how would the team have fared if clutching and grabbing weren't reined in? They would likely not be as successful as they are as their smaller forwards would be having much more difficulty generating scoring chances, they would likely have far fewer power play opportunities, and only McKee and Fitzpatrick seem to play physically on the blueline. That is where Darcy showed the most prescience, he built a team that would be well suited for the "freewheeling" NHL we are currently seeing.

 

Hindsight shows that the league finally appears to have gotten the message that it could not continue to do business as it always did - neither in the structure of teams nor in the on-ice product. While this now appears to be a no-brainer, it was not a given that either would necessarily occur - this is the NHL we're talking about after all. That there would be a salary cap would have been a no-brainer to an NHL insider because they would have been privy to the development of the negotiating strategies, but it was not a no-brainer that all teams would be held to the cap this season. Teams like Toronto expected to have at least a 1 year window where they could exceed the the cap as the league "transitioned" to a salary cap.

 

I still will reserve passing judgement on Darcy until after the next off-season, but it does appear that he did have a pretty good idea of how the landscape would look post lockout. Although he did misjudge how much top players would be offered coming out of the lockout. How much of it was luck and how much skill is fodder for a different thread. How he performs over the rest of the season will have a huge impact in how the team does in the playoffs (assuming they make them).

[deluca67]

DeLuca is not a Sabre fan, at least not right now. I'm sure at some point he liked the Sabres, but he's become blinded by his hatred for our general manager. He would prefer to have his ridiculous preseason claims justified than having the team he supposedly roots for succeed. Every time we win a game, it makes DeLuca look a little more foolish. I have no problem with critiicizing those in charge, but when it's pathetic when it gets to the point that your hatred for the "President" gets in the way of you supporting your "country". DeLuca is a downer, the kind of person that no one wants to hear especially when things are going well.

 

I've never seen a person be more wrong about everything they say than DeLuca. I wouldn't really care that he was so inaccurate if he would just admit when he's wrong. However, he just won't stop bashing. He can't see that we're doing very well with Darcy's plan. He's living in some idealistic wonderworld where we could be doing better if we signed Zhitnik and Satan, completely disregarding the butterfly effect that would accompany those signings.

 

DeLuca isn't sick of losing, he's sick of Regier. We're not losing now and DeLuca is unhappy. He'd be in a much better mood if we were 10-18-1 because then we wouldn't look like the moron he currently does. At this point, he's actually a fan of the opposition. He wants us to lose. I'm sure he'll say the only reason that he wants us to lose is because it will ultimately lead to Regier's dismissal, but that (in my opinion) is no excuse. You root for your team, that's the definiton of a fan. I'm not sure why people keep referencing the seats when we're going to make more than $15 million more than in years past. Attendance has been better than usual and revenues are higher.

 

I agree that it's still too early. I said as much in my previous posts. That still doesn't change the fact that all signs point to us heading in a very positive direction under the leadership of Darcy Regier. DeLuca can't handle that. He's very depressed, perhaps we should leave him alone.

You have done a nice job of proving you don't read my posts.

 

You know nothing about me or what my posts say. I don't have to defend myself or my status as a "fan" to you or anyone. But I will give you this.

 

I enjoy what the Sabres are doing. And for the 20th or so time, I'll be happier then anyone when they prove me wrong. I've given credit for what has been going on. But even if the Sabres make to the playoffs and even win a round it still doesn't excuse what I feel are mistakes.

 

Not resigning Peca was a bad move even if the Sabres make the playoffs this season.

 

Zhitnik is a quality blueliner no matter what people want to try and believe.

 

and

 

Satan, even with all the garbage that went on, is still a quality NHL scorer.

 

Maybe you can explain why what the Sabres are doing this season equals "Zhitnik Sucks"? Or how what some of what the younger players are doing now takes away from what Satan has done for this franchise. And how easy it is to forget what Peca meant to this city or franchise.

 

The Sabres on the current roster are doing well right now. But they are far from gaining my respect as a "fan" at this point because they haven't done a thing in a Sabres uniform. The only player I respect is McKee because he's earned it in a Sabre uniform. He's given this franchise his heart, his blood and his body.

 

It used to be respect was earned. But I guess you can add that to the long list of things you know nothing about

 

 

 

;)

[inkman]

I always get a chuckle reading your posts but this one I actually agreed with for the most part.

 

Not resigning Peca was a bad move even if the Sabres make the playoffs this season.

 

I think the biggest problem with the Peca negotiations was how it was handled. The organ-eye-zation didn't look good but 4 mil a year for Peca was too much. I said it then and I'll say it again.

 

Zhitnik is a quality blueliner no matter what people want to try and believe.

 

Sure, he's good but I have no problem not paying him either. I think this organ-eye-zation has a financial philosophy that they won't tie up too much $ into one player, goaltenders aside.

 

Satan, even with all the garbage that went on, is still a quality NHL scorer.

 

Yes, but same as above. Let's just say Peca, Zhitnik and Satan were all Sabres, here is what our team might look like.

 

1st line: Satan-Briere-Dumont Nothing wrong with this

2nd line: Afinogenov-Novotny-Kotalik Not enough $ to make Drury trade

3rd line: Mair-Peca-Grier Introducing your $6 mil checking line

4th line: Thorburn-Gaustad-Peters Similar to today's rendition

 

1st pair: Zhitnik-Talinder :unsure:

2nd pair: Kalinen-Fitzpatrick Not enough $ to keep Mckee

3rd pair :Campbell-Janik No $ to sign any quality FA

 

Goaltending: Miller/Kalinen Biron surley would have been traded ($)

 

Who's missing? Vanek. The Sabres never finished poorly enough to draft him.

 

All in all, not a terribly different team. A powerhouse first line followed by no scoring what-so-ever. (Kotalik isn't going to thrive with Jiri)

 

No defensive depth what-so-ever. Jillson/Paetch are only guys worth mentioning.

 

If Miller is hurt like this year. We are stuck with Noronen, who has seemed shakey at best.

 

I'll take what we have now. The roster is younger, hungrier and loaded with potential.

 

 

p.s. Roy and Pominville are not included. Maybe sud Roy with Novotny. Pominville with Thorburn but he's not a checker.

[Stoner]

I hate to break it to you, but having a plan isn't about spending money via trades and free agent acquisitions. We have already seen the team he wanted to build, we're not going to see Buffalo go out and go crazy on free agents (nor would I want us to). He's dealing with a $28.6 millon cap and he's got a team that can both compete and make a profit. This isn't fantasy hockey.

 

We're going to see Darcy's plan based on how we fare in the standings, not the free agent market.

Are you discounting the role of trades and free-agent signings in the building of a team? If the Sabres make it to the conference finals this year, and various shortcomings are revealed, would you not want Golisano to pry open his wallet a crack and address those needs in trades/free agency? Isn't the plan to win the Stanley Cup? Larry Quinn said as much. As a fan, if that's not how you think, I would be worried about you, not DeLuca. For the vast majority of fans, it IS fantasy hockey, and the fantasy with a multibillionaire owner in a league where the playing field has been leveled dramatically is to win the Stanley Cup.

 

You have to sell hope to that fan base, a fan base that wants a championship, not a rag-tag bunch that you hope overachieves. Sure, the current approach will draw 12,000 folks. You'll always get the minority of fans in a market who will support a team no matter what, the teenage girls with their Vanek jerseys, the blue and gold Kool Aid drinkers on the Internet. But to really energize the base, fill the joint, sell tons of advertising and merchandise and concessions -- to really turn a profit -- you had better be grabbing for the brass ring, or at least appear to the fans to be doing exactly that. (See One Bills Drive.)

 

And that's the crux of the issue for me. Some fans have bought into the idea that we are a small-market team with limited financial resources. That we have to stay on the cheap, hope for young players to develop quickly before they cost too much and pray that the fans come back in droves. But don't you have to spend money to make money? Maybe this is fantasy hockey after all. The fantasy is that the Sabres can stay young and cheap and still win big -- maybe the whole enchilada. I for one pray that the Sabres indeed are blazing a new trail to success in professional sports. It would be refreshing.

 

Back to the plan. Again, why wasn't this plan explained to the fans? Why was the fan base allowed to believe that we were going to go out and make a splash in free agency before the season? dave I think acknowledged that Darcy underestimated the cost of free agents. Darcy said as much, I believe. Well, if he loved his team he has been building for years so much, why was he even thinking free agency?

[deluca67]

I always get a chuckle reading your posts but this one I actually agreed with for the most part.

 

Not resigning Peca was a bad move even if the Sabres make the playoffs this season.

 

I think the biggest problem with the Peca negotiations was how it was handled. The organ-eye-zation didn't look good but 4 mil a year for Peca was too much. I said it then and I'll say it again.

 

Zhitnik is a quality blueliner no matter what people want to try and believe.

 

Sure, he's good but I have no problem not paying him either. I think this organ-eye-zation has a financial philosophy that they won't tie up too much $ into one player, goaltenders aside.

 

Satan, even with all the garbage that went on, is still a quality NHL scorer.

 

Yes, but same as above. Let's just say Peca, Zhitnik and Satan were all Sabres, here is what our team might look like.

 

1st line: Satan-Briere-Dumont Nothing wrong with this

2nd line: Afinogenov-Novotny-Kotalik Not enough $ to make Drury trade

3rd line: Mair-Peca-Grier Introducing your $6 mil checking line

4th line: Thorburn-Gaustad-Peters Similar to today's rendition

 

1st pair: Zhitnik-Talinder :unsure:

2nd pair: Kalinen-Fitzpatrick Not enough $ to keep Mckee

3rd pair :Campbell-Janik No $ to sign any quality FA

 

Goaltending: Miller/Kalinen Biron surley would have been traded ($)

 

Who's missing? Vanek. The Sabres never finished poorly enough to draft him.

 

All in all, not a terribly different team. A powerhouse first line followed by no scoring what-so-ever. (Kotalik isn't going to thrive with Jiri)

 

No defensive depth what-so-ever. Jillson/Paetch are only guys worth mentioning.

 

If Miller is hurt like this year. We are stuck with Noronen, who has seemed shakey at best.

 

I'll take what we have now. The roster is younger, hungrier and loaded with potential.

 

 

p.s. Roy and Pominville are not included. Maybe sud Roy with Novotny. Pominville with Thorburn but he's not a checker.

Your 100% right.

 

It's not as much that they are not here it's the fact that they get villified for no reason. From Hasek to Peca, Zhitnik and Satan they were all a part of this franchise's Cup run. One of two in the 30+ year history.

 

I would be more then happy to let it go and concentrate on the team at hand. But when other posters want to take shots at them I feel the need to respond. These players have my respect because they all gave soemthing to this franchise. They may not have won a Cup. IMO they have done enough to gain my respect as a fan. I am glad they have gone on to do well and I'm saddened that Peca has been hit with injuries.

 

It's funny how some say I don't enjoy or I hate what the Sabres are doing :lol: I love it. It's those posters who are not getting the full enjoyment of this season. They are more worried about being proven wrong or being justified. I really don't care about that stuff. Right or wrong I love talking hockey and I can't wait for the Bills season to be over so many more will enjoy (and buy tickets) what is turning into a season for the books. :)

[inkman]

I find it boring and sour grapes, griping about players thataren't here anymore. They are gone, this is who we have for whatever reason so lets see what they got. :)

[MLH]

Are you discounting the role of trades and free-agent signings in the building of a team? If the Sabres make it to the conference finals this year, and various shortcomings are revealed, would you not want Golisano to pry open his wallet a crack and address those needs in trades/free agency? Isn't the plan to win the Stanley Cup? Larry Quinn said as much. As a fan, if that's not how you think, I would be worried about you, not DeLuca. For the vast majority of fans, it IS fantasy hockey, and the fantasy with a multibillionaire owner in a league where the playing field has been leveled dramatically is to win the Stanley Cup.

 

You have to sell hope to that fan base, a fan base that wants a championship, not a rag-tag bunch that you hope overachieves. Sure, the current approach will draw 12,000 folks. You'll always get the minority of fans in a market who will support a team no matter what, the teenage girls with their Vanek jerseys, the blue and gold Kool Aid drinkers on the Internet. But to really energize the base, fill the joint, sell tons of advertising and merchandise and concessions -- to really turn a profit -- you had better be grabbing for the brass ring, or at least appear to the fans to be doing exactly that. (See One Bills Drive.)

 

And that's the crux of the issue for me. Some fans have bought into the idea that we are a small-market team with limited financial resources. That we have to stay on the cheap, hope for young players to develop quickly before they cost too much and pray that the fans come back in droves. But don't you have to spend money to make money? Maybe this is fantasy hockey after all. The fantasy is that the Sabres can stay young and cheap and still win big -- maybe the whole enchilada. I for one pray that the Sabres indeed are blazing a new trail to success in professional sports. It would be refreshing.

 

Back to the plan. Again, why wasn't this plan explained to the fans? Why was the fan base allowed to believe that we were going to go out and make a splash in free agency before the season? dave I think acknowledged that Darcy underestimated the cost of free agents. Darcy said as much, I believe. Well, if he loved his team he has been building for years so much, why was he even thinking free agency?

The plan is to win the Stanley Cup with a $28.6 million payroll. We can make trades and FA acquisitions that will keep us under that ceiling. We're not going to sign Niedermayer. We're not going to trade for Federov. Our approach is going to average more than 15,000 people per game this season. And believe it or not, we're going to turn a profit this year. So you couldn't be more wrong about how to "really turn a profit". As much as you want to believe that your asinine fantasy hockey approach is the best, the real key to making money in professional sports is winning. We are winning. We are on pace to make a profit. We have a chance to win the Stanley Cup. You're whining about nothing. It's funny you mention One Bills Drive and fail to see the irony. Oh well, you can never get through to some people.

 

The plan was expressed to the fans. Darcy was on WGR numerous times and said as much. The fans to believe we were going to overpay for FA's. If they made that assumption, they did from their own inferences. There were a few pieces that needed to be acquired and we were able to find Teppo for a reasonable price and trade for Lydman. Everything else could come from within.

 

We weren't expecting teams to overpay for FA's. That will only help us in the future.

 

I'm not sure exactly for what you're looking for. You and Deluca should go root for the Bruins, they have a "plan" that doesn't discount the role of trades and free-agent signings in the building of a team. Jacobs pried open his wallet a crack and addressed needs in trades/free agency. You guys can have fun dpending $15 million on 3 players and see how far it gets you.

 

We have a profitable, likable, winning hockey club. Our attendance figures have exceeded expectations. We have a legitimate chance to win the Stanley Cup. Real fans ask for nothing more than that. Tom Golisano has a right to set a budget and Darcy has to work within that budget. He's done a helluva job.

 

But, hey, chalk it up to luck or whatever you and DeLuca like to call it when the team you "root" for does well. The Anaheim game had to be a disapointment for you and DeLuca. Looked like it was going to be a loss until the end.

[Taro T]

Yes, but same as above.  Let's just say Peca, Zhitnik and Satan were all Sabres, here is what our team might look like. 

 

1st line:  Satan-Briere-Dumont              Nothing wrong with this

2nd line: Afinogenov-Novotny-Kotalik      Not enough $ to make Drury trade

3rd line:  Mair-Peca-Grier                      Introducing your $6 mil checking line

4th line:  Thorburn-Gaustad-Peters          Similar to today's rendition

 

1st pair:  Zhitnik-Talinder                        :unsure:

2nd pair: Kalinen-Fitzpatrick                    Not enough $ to keep Mckee

3rd pair :Campbell-Janik                        No $ to sign any quality FA

 

Goaltending:  Miller/Kalinen                    Biron surley would have been traded ($)

 

Who's missing?  Vanek.  The Sabres never finished poorly enough to draft him. 

 

All in all, not a terribly different team.  A powerhouse first line followed by no scoring what-so-ever.  (Kotalik isn't going to thrive with Jiri) 

 

No defensive depth what-so-ever.  Jillson/Paetch are only guys worth mentioning.

 

If Miller is hurt like this year.  We are stuck with Noronen, who has seemed shakey at best. 

 

I'll take what we have now.  The roster is younger, hungrier and loaded with potential. 

 

 

p.s.  Roy and Pominville are not included.  Maybe sud Roy with Novotny.  Pominville with Thorburn but he's not a checker.

Obviously, you never know what other trades would have been made, but Ballard would likely be one of the top 4 d-men, as he wouldn't have been traded to land Drury. I also would expect Warrener to still be on the team.

[inkman]

Ballard would probably be but I think Warrener signed a contract between the trade and now. I doubt the Sabres would have offered it to him. :huh:

[shrader]

Not to mention the fact that you don't know how future drafts would've played out without making the Peca deal. If I remember the timing correctly, we drafted Novotny, Roy, Pominville, and Thorburn that same year (a day or two after the trade, right?). If Peca had been with the team the previous season, the outcome would've been different and we most likely wouldn't have had the same draft position. Ballard was taken the next year. With Peca, we probably don't land that pick either. There are way too many variables that could screw up this kind of projection. We are too far removed from the trade now to say what the lineup would be if it never happened.