All the news that's fit to put under the litter box

[Stoner]

Amazing. By and large, the media has gone from voice of the people to mouthpiece of the Sabres. Another example, this time from the lead paragraph of the New York Times (see link on The Sabres Report):

 

"For months, Buffalo Sabres fans compared the club?s new logo to a slug and a toupee. Now all is forgiven.

 

When the Sabres skated onto the ice at HSBC Arena on Saturday for a scrimmage wearing a new logo and uniform, more than 9,000 fans provided a standing ovation."

 

Uhhh, do you think they were ovating the team and not the logo? But the idea comes directly from LQ, who referenced the standing ovation in remarks after the event.

 

Here's another one right from the horse's mouth:

 

The Times reports that a "hacker" went on sabres.com and "stole" the image of the new jersey. How dramatic can you be! I didn't know if I right-clicked to save an image to my computer that I could end up in Guantanamo Bay with Al Qaeda's webmaster!

 

Finally, this quote:

 

?In retrospect, we couldn?t have done it any better,? said Quinn, who insisted the Sabres were not behind the leaks. ?It?s been a great guerilla marketing campaign.?

 

How stupid does he think we are? Don't answer that question.

 

Again, I realize how utterly lazy, stupid and even corrupt that the media is. All they want is a good story. For some reason, the good story in September is that the fans have forgiven all, accepted the new look and decided it doesn't matter if the Sabres play in (insert ridiculous uniform concept, almost certainly made up by the reporter).

 

Good night and good luck.

 

 

 

 

P.S. Check out the definition of "guerrilla marketing" here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerilla_marketing

 

And tell me LQ's reference to that term doesn't directly contradict the idea they didn't leak the logo and jersey. Of course they leaked it! That's what got them two very strong waves of free publicity at precisely the right time. What a friggen liar. And the B with the sabre through it wasn't going to be part of the final uniform either.

 

Actually, the biggest lie of all occurred on the final day of the regular season in 2003 (99% sure it was that year). The Sabres skated out in the vintage blue and gold. That day, the standing ovation WAS for the uniform, not the team, which sucked. LQ and TG were clearly telling the fans that the team would return to that look. Three and a half years later, we have neither the original colors (not that I am opposed to the new shades; I haven't even seen them in person) nor the original logo.

 

From the beginning, a fiasco. Only the fact that this team is winning has saved the franchise from a real disaster.

 

I'm done. I promise.

[Hsoj25]

1. Who are you to say what the fans were cheering for, I was there and I WAS cheering for the uniform.

 

2. You have made a total misrepresentation of what happened with the website, whatever it takes to get your negativity across I suppose (SHAME ON THEM REPORTERS!)

 

3. About the questionable leak, I'm not convinced it wasnt the sabres who in fact were behind it, but even if it was ... who cares. Its over. Done with. The proverbial spilt milk - what reason is there to keep crying over something so trivial.

 

Larry Quinn is out to get Joe Sabrefan.

 

Oh and if anyone wants to jump in with the always witty "Mrs. Quinn is that you" you can stop right there, because yes, it is.

[Taro T]

1. Who are you to say what the fans were cheering for, I was there and I WAS cheering for the uniform.

 

2. You have made a total misrepresentation of what happened with the website, whatever it takes to get your negativity across I suppose (SHAME ON THEM REPORTERS!)

 

3. About the questionable leak, I'm not convinced it wasnt the sabres who in fact were behind it, but even if it was ... who cares. Its over. Done with. The proverbial spilt milk - what reason is there to keep crying over something so trivial.

 

Larry Quinn is out to get Joe Sabrefan.

 

Oh and if anyone wants to jump in with the always witty "Mrs. Quinn is that you" you can stop right there, because yes, it is.

Obviously Larry Quinn isn't "out to get Joe Sabrefan". I don't think anyone has posted that, even the several posters that have been bashing Larry.

 

But, the reason several people here feel it is important enough to post about (and I don't believe that I've posted on that particular issue, I may have touched on it in one of my rants but don't recall doing it) is the Sabres organization has flat out stated that they did not intentionally leak the logo or the uni. If, in fact they did one or the other, then they have lied to us, the paying customer. That is a really bad way to build goodwill with the fanbase.

 

The Sabres, until the logo fiasco, have done a tremendous job of reaching out to the fans. They have realized that they need to increase the fanbase and have taken steps to do that. The logo fiasco has spent a little bit of that goodwill (not a lot, but some). If management is lying, however, that will flush a lot of goodwill down the toilet. Especially if they are lying about something as stupid / trivial as the unis. Heck if they will lie about something like this to save some embarrassment, would they lie about much more important things such as player payrolls, what their "plan" is, etc.?

 

Personally, I think Golisano is a very straight shooter and won't take liberties with us. I have mentioned before how I was unhappy with Larry Quinn in his 1st go around, primarily for poor decision making and arrogance. I have given Larry a clean slate when he came back. There is no reason to automatically assume he will do a bad job, just because the last attempt was less than exemplary.

 

There are several things that I have liked about the job Larry is doing - the variable ticket pricing, bringing training camp to Ra-cha-cha for a few evenings last year, having a few evening practices this year, and a few other things. I have also liked that Larry has come across as being humbler this go around. But this logo/uni debacle has shown some signs of the old Larry Quinn making a reemergence. If he has lied to us, my opinion of him will be very close to what it was back in '97.

 

There would be no reason for Larry Quinn to lie about this but to try to avoid embarrassment. That isn't a good enough reason in my book to lie to your customers. Especially when he could have simply stated initially that they were looking into the source of the leak and then a few days or a couple of weeks later state that they found out the leak was by design by someone within the organization and they would handle it in an appropriate manner but wouldn't make public what that was as it is a personnel issue and they don't think it's appropriate to release that information to the public.

 

I don't see where handling it in that manner would be particularily embarrassing nor do I see it meaning someone has to be fired. Heck, since the person(s) responsible were likely doing what they were told to do they might even get a promotion.

 

Sorry for the long winded reply.

[Stoner]

2. You have made a total misrepresentation of what happened with the website, whatever it takes to get your negativity across I suppose (SHAME ON THEM REPORTERS!)

 

How have I misrepresented it? The Sabres have claimed that a "hacker" went on the site and "stole" the image. To buy that, you have to believe that one has to be a hacker to copy an image from a web site. And that copying such an image makes one, in the words of Mike Gilbert, a "thief."

 

The guerrilla marketing comment is telling. Guerrilla marketing, by the way, is a marketing campaign that relies largely on "buzz" and word of mouth over more expensive methods of getting your message out, like TV/radio/print advertising and the like. To believe the Sabres' side of things, they decided to have such a campaign, then hoped that someone from a licensee would leak the logo and a "hacker" would "steal" the image of their jersey from their site, the two events that created all the free buzz. Does that make any sense?

[Hsoj25]

From what I have read the website leak was from a flash deal, where the jersey would slowly unveil itself on the site as the scrimmage unveiling event came closer. Somehow this was manipulated early to see the final image before it was intended - certainly much more involved that you would make it sound. Although i also wouldnt call it 'theft'.

 

Yes PA, your description makes sense - I understood it after your first post said the same thing. I am simply asking why you care so much what kind of marketing campaign the sabres use - especially now that it is done with. I dont believe any of these leaks were intentional, though I could understand why it would be done (though in this case I think it likely provided more of a setback than a benefit). I dont think it is right to indict him for lying to the fans based on the fact that he admitted to using a guerilla marketing campaign, and therefore jumping to the conclusion that the leaks were intentional.

 

I dont mean to be towing the company line, I certainly dont agree that this situation was handled in the best manner, I just think that someone needs to represent the other side to the (fairly large) contingent of people on this board who I feel have made their minds up before even looking at what has really happened, who simply twist out of proportion or misrepresent facts to back up their already preconceived notions.

[Stoner]

I have no idea about the technicalities of capturing an image from a Flash presentation, then cleaning it up. PTS? I presume it's not difficult, because the leaked image was out there shortly after the Flash appeared on sabres.com. Either the Sabres had the image ready to be leaked beforehand, or they knew how easily it could be "stolen" and cleaned up.

 

Bah, it doesn't matter, except in my opinion and the opinion of others, the Sabres lied to the fans. When asked whether they leaked the images, all LQ had to do was chuckle, wink and say something cryptic. For crying out loud, leaking the logo wasn't channeling state secrets to the enemy.

 

Hsoj, I think the thing you are missing here is how brilliant the leaking of the logo was earlier in the summer. They almost certainly knew they had an unpopular logo on their hands. Leaking it then created a fan and media firestorm when it really didn't matter. The revolt burned itself out as the days got shorter. Think about it. If it hadn't been leaked -- if the first sight of the logo had been on Saturday -- right now the petitions would be starting and the media coverage would be just getting fired up, at the worst possible time.

 

They cut the legs off the anti-slug movement. The Sabres are good at that. :)

[Hsoj25]

that is how it turned out, and its easy to say it was all planned now, but that explanation depends fully on the fact that the organization expected such a publich backlash towards the logo, and I dont believe in a million years they would have decided upon a logo they fully expected to be as divisive as it was.

[Chilly]

From what I have read the website leak was from a flash deal, where the jersey would slowly unveil itself on the site as the scrimmage unveiling event came closer. Somehow this was manipulated early to see the final image before it was intended - certainly much more involved that you would make it sound. Although i also wouldnt call it 'theft'.

 

Not really. For flash animations, you can right click on it and speed up playback. They probably just fast forwarded to the end frame then took a screenshot. Not hard.

[Taro T]

that is how it turned out, and its easy to say it was all planned now, but that explanation depends fully on the fact that the organization expected such a publich backlash towards the logo, and I dont believe in a million years they would have decided upon a logo they fully expected to be as divisive as it was.

Not necessarily. 1st off, I'm not 100% certain that the Sabres were the primary culprit in coming up with the logo. I think that the logo has a very "reebok" stench to it. That apparently there were at least 12 revisions to the abominable snot smearTM indicates that the Sabres were not completely enamored with it. It could be a case of the Sabres being committed to unveiling the new unis this season, heck, they promised they were coming 3 years ago and were probably getting tired of not living up to expectations, and Reebok and the NHL had the lead on the the design and the Sabres for some reason took a back seat on the design.

 

One way that might have been possible is the league might have told the Sabres that they would pay the design costs if the Sabres would be willing to essentially be the guinnea pig for the new style unis that they were having Reebok develop. I've seen $200k thrown around as the cost to roll the new duds out (it sounds high to me, but I have no background in the field so I will accept that figure until I hear something from a reliable source). If the design was that expensive, then I could definitely see the Sabres agreeing to that, especially because the contracts would have been signed during the lockout or very near to it. Remember, at that time the Sabres were expecting to have modest revenue streams in comparison to most other teams and were expecting to (and did) keep payroll much lower than the cap and well below the average as well.

 

In that scenario, there are 2 ways this abomination could have befallen us. The 1st is, there was a drop dead date by which the design would have to be approved. Reebok and their designers could have screwed around with really far out (and lousy) ideas that the Sabres kept nixing. The #79 has been bandied about as to how many designs were rejected. The Sabres may still have not liked the design, but figured there would be enough time to get it modified to something that wasn't abominable. Obviously there wasn't enough time. The thing might actually have grown on them throughout the process, because (although I can't imagine how) it may actually have been the best of a rather sorry bunch. In that scenario, the Sabres would have wanted the logo leaked early so they could find out if their initial instincts were correct (it's an abominable snot smearTM) or if their numbed view was correct (it actually isn't that bad and we're starting to like it). Whether the design firm or the Sabres leaked it in that situation, it did give them time to wear some of the opposition down, but thankfully not all of it. But they may have been able to essentially "suggest" to the designers to "accidentally" unveil the logo. That way, although it's what they wanted, they could honestly say they didn't leak the logo. (They just requested the logo get leaked. ;) )

 

The other situation is that because the league was paying for the design, they got primary say and the Sabres only got limited veto power and the ability to suggest modifications to the logo but not major revisions to it. I think this scenario is less likely, but think it could be plausible. Again, it was probably in the Sabres best interest to leak the logo and ask the design firm to do so. Remember, Larry Quinn has very deep roots in WNY, he was in tight with Jimmy Griffin and also was in tight with the Knoxes. He has to know how Buffalo reacts to change, it doesn't, and that there could be a lot of ticked off customers. I'm sure Reebok and the NHL were telling the Sabres how great this thing was and that there would be 500 or less people that hate it. Leaking the logo through the design firm would have given him the much needed opportunity to see if a legless and wingless creature could fly. It can't. While he may have suspected it wouldn't fly, (or maybe he suspected it would, after all it appears that the only people that saw the logo prior to it being leaked were the sycophants at GR), he wouldn't know for sure until it had been seen by the public.

 

When the thing went over like a lead zeppelin, that's when the guerrilla marketing campaign would have started.

 

Based on comments made by Larry Quinn in his GR interview and PC the day the vintage unis were unveiled, I have to believe that he thought he could still get modifications done to the logo and unis. The only other possibility is that he lied through his teeth. Since he is a smart guy, I believe he knew how foolish he would look and how much of a hit his reputation would take getting caught in such brazen lies. Obviously, the unis had been set in stone, so I hope that he was mistaken in a belief that they could change and that he didn't lie about it. Because if he did lie, that really stinks.

 

So, the guerrilla marketing campaign could very well have been chosen to get feedback that had been lacking during the design process. Other than Reebok wanting to keep the new, sleek duds under wraps until whatever time they thought would be appropriate for a leaguewide unveiling (which got pushed back at least a year anyhow due to Reebok incompetance), I can't think of 1 legitimate reason to not have at least a small group of fans provide input into the process.

 

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think the uni leak could have been an accident. The Sabres website is horrible. I truly believe that the designers are not in the top 75% of designers. (I hope none of the designers of the site read this board, if they do, sorry but that is my honest opinion of the site.) They might honestly been so poor at the task as to not realize that their "hidden" sweater was actually sitting there for all the world to see. Much like the person who locks his briefcase with the combination of 1234, probably has had his papers rifled.

 

While I do think the leaks were intentional, but not necessarily BY the Sabres, the way this whole process progressed I am not convinced that the people involved at the day to day level were smart enough to run a guerrilla marketing campaign or leak information intentionally.

[Saber61]

well written dave... i hadn't thought of it from that point... but your right... if reebok and the nhl took the reigns it may not be managements fault... interesting... thanks for that point of view!

 

Andy

[Taro T]

... if reebok and the nhl took the reigns it may not be managements fault... interesting... thanks for that point of view!

 

Andy

It's purely speculation, but until I have a preponderence of evidence that management lied to me and the rest of Sabres Nation, I would LIKE to believe they got screwed just as bad as the rest of us did. I'm not 100% there, but I'm not 100% convinced that they did knowingly and with no outside influences choose this absolutely horrible abomination.

 

And I would also LIKE to believe that the Keystone Kop routine / Chinese Firedrill this turned into wasn't entirely the plan from day one. I'm not 100% there on that one either, but hey, a drowning man grabs at any straws available to him.

[hopeleslyobvious]

It's purely speculation, but until I have a preponderence of evidence that management lied to me and the rest of Sabres Nation, I would LIKE to believe they got screwed just as bad as the rest of us did. I'm not 100% there, but I'm not 100% convinced that they did knowingly and with no outside influences choose this absolutely horrible abomination.

 

And I would also LIKE to believe that the Keystone Kop routine / Chinese Firedrill this turned into wasn't entirely the plan from day one. I'm not 100% there on that one either, but hey, a drowning man grabs at any straws available to him.

 

Fair assessment. The exact opposite of PA's everyone is out to get us conspiracy theories. I like it.

[Stoner]

"Out to get us" is a pretty weak interpretation about what I'm saying. Hey, Dave's the one with the conspiracy theories -- remember the one about the uni being deliberately bad so revenues could be suppressed? :)

 

Hey... Larry again used the term "guerilla marketing" in an ArtVoice interview (link on the home page) when talking about the "leak" of the logo. I think a lot of you are overanalyzing this.

 

Long story short, it's a duck!

[Stoner]

Add Buffalo's irrelevant alternative newsweekly to the media Hall of Shame:

 

"...one guy with way too much time on his hands got some crazy online petition going to challenge the new team logo."

 

Crazy?

 

You'd think an alternative paper would be interested in getting the alternative view out there, not printing the company line. Clearly, LQ has ArtVoice in his back pocket. :)

[shrader]

I think crazy is a good description of any online petition, especially when it's about a logo. There are far more important issues in the Buffalo area (or anywhere else) that these people deserve that kind of treatment.

[hopeleslyobvious]

I think crazy is a good description of any online petition, especially when it's about a logo. There are far more important issues in the Buffalo area (or anywhere else) that these people deserve that kind of treatment.

:lol:

[Taro T]

1. Who are you to say what the fans were cheering for, I was there and I WAS cheering for the uniform.

 

...

Josh,

 

You have called the "haters" out on several occasions to explain what they don't like about the logo / uni. You obviously are a supporter of the abominable snot smear TM. I am curious, what is it about that logo that you like? Please be specific, as we have been specific on the other side.

 

I don't recall seeing you pointing out just what it is you like about it, although I will admit you may have stated it somewhere down the line, but I just missed it among all the chaff.

 

I understand that your opinion is that it's wonderful, otherwise you wouldn't be cheering for it. But I honestly I don't understand WHY you were cheering for it. If you could please clue me in, I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

Thanks.

[hopeleslyobvious]

Josh,

 

You have called the "haters" out on several occasions to explain what they don't like about the logo / uni. You obviously are a supporter of the abominable snot smear TM. I am curious, what is it about that logo that you like? Please be specific, as we have been specific on the other side.

 

I don't recall seeing you pointing out just what it is you like about it, although I will admit you may have stated it somewhere down the line, but I just missed it among all the chaff.

 

I understand that your opinion is that it's wonderful, otherwise you wouldn't be cheering for it. But I honestly I don't understand WHY you were cheering for it. If you could please clue me in, I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

Thanks.

 

I'll throw in my opinion. I didn't really like the logo at first. Still not a huge fan, but it is tolerable to me now. I really like the blue uniform. I am not a huge fan of the white uniform, but in general I am a bigger fan of darker colored uniforms.

[Hsoj25]

I am kind of in the same boat as hoplesslyobvious, when the leaked logo came out in that I generally didnt like it (though i was nowhere near as vehement in my dislike as the outspoken masses), though I held my opinions back until seeing the final product rather than what I feel most people did in jumping to conclusions. I went to the unveiling with what I felt was an open mind, and after seeing it I truly believe that the whole package looks sharp - which is not to say that it couldnt be better, but I think it is acceptable. I certainly do not, nor have ever, thought that it was nearly as bad as many make it out to be. As i've said before I think its about in the mid-upper range of designs in the NHL.

 

Also, when I said that I went and was cheering for the logo, really I was cheering for the whole new look in general (as well, of course, for the team).

 

Just to make it clear, I don't have any problem with people who have a legitimate dislike of the logo design, and I've never asked anyone to explain their dislike, all I ask is that people give it a chance. I feel that some people pre-maturely made up their mind on it, and are absolutely unwilling to even consider even warming up to it for a second. I also believe that many people have, like me and hopeless, had the design grow on them at least a little. But I think there is such a bandwagon attitude around this message board that this opinion did not get represented enough.

 

It also doesnt help when every chance they get people like PA will exploit every piece of news to further their sore rhetoric.

[Stoner]

The final logo is exactly the same as the leaked logo, so I don't see how disliking it on Day One can be viewed as "premature." I am open to warming up to it -- I haven't yet. I definitely warmed up to the Demonic Goathead. It was such a dramatic change for the franchise, it was a shock at first. I soon began to like it, because it had qualities that represented what a hockey team should be about -- a fierce spirit, an anger almost, a face with character, symbolic of Buffalo yada yada yada. I really doubt I will ever like the slug because, as I've said, it represents nothing.

 

It's interesting that none of the people who say they like the slug can say what qualities it has that you think represent our team. While the anti-slug faction has been accused of being nattering-nabob obstructionists, I think it is the few in the pro-slug camp who just like to be different, to be different. I will believe that until one of you can explain why you like the logo. (Actually, Hsoj said he didn't like the logo, so maybe we agree!)

 

I can take the uniform design or leave it, but I can see how it's attractive enough that it makes the slug tolerable. But people who say that are missing the big point: our logo has to function in many different media, on its own, and it just falls flat on its slimy face.

[Bmwolf21]

The final logo is exactly the same as the leaked logo, so I don't see how disliking it on Day One can be viewed as "premature." I am open to warming up to it -- I haven't yet. I definitely warmed up to the Demonic Goathead. It was such a dramatic change for the franchise, it was a shock at first. I soon began to like it, because it had qualities that represented what a hockey team should be about -- a fierce spirit, an anger almost, a face with character, symbolic of Buffalo yada yada yada. I really doubt I will ever like the slug because, as I've said, it represents nothing.

 

It's interesting that none of the people who say they like the slug can say what qualities it has that you think represent our team. While the anti-slug faction has been accused of being nattering-nabob obstructionists, I think it is the few in the pro-slug camp who just like to be different, to be different. I will believe that until one of you can explain why you like the logo. (Actually, Hsoj said he didn't like the logo, so maybe we agree!)

 

I can take the uniform design or leave it, but I can see how it's attractive enough that it makes the slug tolerable. But people who say that are missing the big point: our logo has to function in many different media, on its own, and it just falls flat on its slimy face.

Good post, PA, especially the last part about the slug having to function in many different forms and media. The AFL-style cowardly "charging"/diving buffalo looks as out of place among the league's logos as the Blue Jackets, Thrashers and Wild logos.

 

As for the first part of your post -- I 100% agree. When the initial leak happened, although I hated the idea of that slug being the final logo, I desparately wanted to believe LQ in his statements that the final product would be different, that Sabres would be incorporated into the final logo, or a wordmark would be present. He begged with us to "wait until the final product comes out and see it in context" (I'm paraphrasing here) and he was sure the Sabres fans would love it. Well, I tried to keep an open mind, but when the unveiling came and the logo was EXACTLY the same thing that had been leaked, I was pissed, disappointed, frustrated, etc.

 

In the context of the blue jersey, the slug is average at best, while the yellow A.S.S. (abominable snot smear [TM]) logo on the white jersey is horrific IMO. Myself and a couple others noted in another thread that several small changes could have made this an acceptable logo - from slight changes in color (cowardly lion yellow?) to a slight change in the angle of the buffalo (tilted upwards instead of nosediving into the ice) and the addition of one (or two crossed) Sabre(s) would have made this an acceptable logo, and I would have been calling the Sabres store with my credit card number to order two - one for me and one for the wife. I won't rehash all the details, but the way the release of the new uniforms was handled (leaks, impromptu press conferences, starnge vague comments from Sabres creative services directors) coupled with LQ's flippant, arrogant comments, disregarding the unhappy Sabres' fans reaction to the slug, have made me want to distance myself from that logo, by not purchasing or wearing anything with the snot smear on it.

 

You guys, like Hsoj25, who are somewhat neutral about the logo - do what makes you feel good. If you want to order merchandise and jerseys to "support the team," knock yourselves out. I am not going to bash your decision. I only ask that you:

A) don't buy merchandise out of some twisted logic that says you aren't a true fan unless you drop thousands of dollars each year in traveling to games (no matter where you live) or by buying the latest line of crap they put out as merchandise and wearing it everywhere, no questions asked (again, because you're a real fan)

B) Respect OUR rights as true Sabres fans to dislike, ridicule and even scorn the new slug logo, because after all it is our team as much as it is yours. I, Dave, and a few others in the anti-slug faction (sounds like a bad WWE wrestling stable) won't drag the logo into every discussion about the team and its play, injuries, etc., provided we don't see a stream of "witty" and "insightful" comments like "Briere must have been laughing too hard at his slug logo to see the open net" or "Miller couldn't stop that shot b/c he couldn't take his eyes off the slug" or "The Sabres must be skating slower b/c the yellow on the slug reminds them of a yellow traffic light." Thanks, we get it, your sarcasm needs work, and you can't add anything of substance to the conversation.

[Hsoj25]

This is not 'us vs them', I speak for myself, just as you do. My original post was not to say how much I love the jersey and how much everyone else should, but rather to call out PA on his terribly hypocritical way of presenting his point of view.

 

Second, I DO respect your right to ridicule/scorn/think of new amazing metaphors and acronyms for the logo, but as long as it happens on what seems to be every thread on this board, I am going to feel free to continue to add my ill conceived sarcastic comments in the same vein. Though I would prefer neither happened because, as you said, it doesnt add any substance to the conversation.

 

Like I thought i've already made clear, I dont have a problem with people legitimately disliking the logo, nor have I ever made any argument even close to saying people werent supporting the team if they didnt buy the new jersey.

[Stoner]

Hypocritical?

[FogBat]

I don't know how many of you guys listen to Home Ice on XM 204, but I did have something to say about the new Banana logo in an email. I made it clear to Hockey This Morning hosts Scott Laughlin and Cam Stewart that the Front Office needs to bring back the demonic Goathead. There was a certain meanness about it which another poster here talked about, and it certainly had a special appeal about it.

 

I hate to say this, but we don't grow bananas in western New York. Never have, never will. They get imported to us. Same attitude toward the new unis -- although, for some odd reason, my Dixie Girl wife seems to like them.

[Taro T]

I am kind of in the same boat as hoplesslyobvious, when the leaked logo came out in that I generally didnt like it (though i was nowhere near as vehement in my dislike as the outspoken masses), though I held my opinions back until seeing the final product rather than what I feel most people did in jumping to conclusions. I went to the unveiling with what I felt was an open mind, and after seeing it I truly believe that the whole package looks sharp - which is not to say that it couldnt be better, but I think it is acceptable. I certainly do not, nor have ever, thought that it was nearly as bad as many make it out to be. As i've said before I think its about in the mid-upper range of designs in the NHL.

 

Also, when I said that I went and was cheering for the logo, really I was cheering for the whole new look in general (as well, of course, for the team).

 

Just to make it clear, I don't have any problem with people who have a legitimate dislike of the logo design, and I've never asked anyone to explain their dislike, all I ask is that people give it a chance. I feel that some people pre-maturely made up their mind on it, and are absolutely unwilling to even consider even warming up to it for a second. I also believe that many people have, like me and hopeless, had the design grow on them at least a little. But I think there is such a bandwagon attitude around this message board that this opinion did not get represented enough.

 

It also doesnt help when every chance they get people like PA will exploit every piece of news to further their sore rhetoric.

OK, you didn't call people out to explain why they disliked the logo. My bad. You simply stated that they are crybabies who will never give the team credit for anything. That strikes me as "having a problem with people who have a LEGITIMATE dislike of the logo design".

 

I don't understand how not liking the logo for several legitimate reasons AFTER seeing the logo is prematurely making up my mind. (I'm not going to reiterate the litany of things I don't like about the logo and why I don't like them. I've posted far too often on what I don't like about them.) Perhaps you could explain how that is "pre-mature"?

 

You say you want people to give it a chance. I am willing to do that, but I see nothing about this logo that is favorable. Perhaps if you would tell me what it is that you see in it that warrants it receiving another look, then I could give it that chance. I've asked you to help me out here, and you came back with nothing. If the supporters of the abominable snot smear will not, or more accurately cannot, give me an explanation about what is good about it, there is no point in continuing the discussion. So far, Clay is the only supporter of the abominable snot smear that has posted what it is he likes about it.