Reffing in Bills - Pats Games in Foxboro

[Taro T]

Yes, the Patsies outplayed the Bills in the 2nd half. But if the refs aren't making the calls they are making, I don't know that they would have.

 

I am so tired of phantom holding / blocking in the back calls / etc. in that stadium it isn't even funny.

 

I was really happy overall with how the Bills played, especially considering Takeo left in the 1st Q. Hopefully he will be back and squish some fish.

 

I honestly don't know if I even want to watch the BS next week. I'll never give up on my Bills, but I am this close to giving up on the NFL.

 

Sorry for the non-Sabres post Rick. I do hope your Rams beat the Donkeys. (The Donk's have been on my list ever since Bowlen tried to steal Bruce.)

 

PS - I guess you are this board's honorary LABillzfan. :P (He's the guy on TBD/TSW that always complains about Sabres threads. ;) )

[Corp000085]

Yes, the Patsies outplayed the Bills in the 2nd half. But if the refs aren't making the calls they are making, I don't know that they would have.

 

I am so tired of phantom holding / blocking in the back calls / etc. in that stadium it isn't even funny.

 

I was really happy overall with how the Bills played, especially considering Takeo left in the 1st Q. Hopefully he will be back and squish some fish.

 

I honestly don't know if I even want to watch the BS next week. I'll never give up on my Bills, but I am this close to giving up on the NFL.

 

Sorry for the non-Sabres post Rick. I do hope your Rams beat the Donkeys. (The Donk's have been on my list ever since Bowlen tried to steal Bruce.)

 

PS - I guess you are this board's honorary LABillzfan. :P (He's the guy on TBD/TSW that always complains about Sabres threads. ;) )

 

 

yeah, they make the NHL refs look like boy scouts

[apuszczalowski]

C'mon, Whitner was so out of bounds when he ran down the intersectption 2 yards away from the sidelines :rolleyes:

[Fronz1103]

we lost last year at gillette stadium because of crap freffing and we lose this year because of crap reffing. I know we all saw the same game and it was a load of crap...block in the back?? they should have called vrabel for "flopping like a sack of #%^$#!"(diving). everret BARELY touched him on that LEGAL 3rd down conversion

It would be nice to see a Bills Pats game called fairly for once...I spit on the job the refs did today.

[Stoner]

Wow, I guess I watched a different game. I hate those ticky tacky block in the back calls as much as anyone else, but they were legitimate penalties. The replays don't lie. That is one thing I do like about NFL officiating -- they are consistent, unlike most hockey refs (pre-2006).

 

The out of bounds call was bizarre, but it didn't really matter with the flag on the ground.

 

If you want to point to conspiracy theories again, fine. But don't ignore the probable real reason the Bills lost -- a bonehead coaching call. I heard Dick Jauron was a conservative coach. No one likes the conservative coach, but sometimes the conservative call is the way to go. He definitely betrayed his reputation by unnecessarily going for it on fourth down inside the 10 with a 17-7 lead. Take the points, extend the lead and demoralize the Pats a little more. Risk/reward: reward -- a first down and by no means a sure touchdown; risk -- give the Pats what they desperately needed, momentum. It was a no brainer call. Or should have been.

 

Dropping Losman into the endzone on third and long from his own 10 was also not too bright. Run it up the gut, have Moorman boom one into Pat territory and take your chances!

 

Forget "we're young and improved from last year" -- we should be 1-0 right now!!

[elcrusho]

C'mon guys don't you know we talk about the Rams on this board....

 

Well in Rickshaw's case that is...

 

 

:unsure:

:lol:

[Taro T]

Wow, I guess I watched a different game. I hate those ticky tacky block in the back calls as much as anyone else, but they were legitimate penalties. The replays don't lie. That is one thing I do like about NFL officiating -- they are consistent, unlike most hockey refs (pre-2006).

 

The out of bounds call was bizarre, but it didn't really matter with the flag on the ground.

 

If you want to point to conspiracy theories again, fine. But don't ignore the probable real reason the Bills lost -- a bonehead coaching call. I heard Dick Jauron was a conservative coach. No one likes the conservative coach, but sometimes the conservative call is the way to go. He definitely betrayed his reputation by unnecessarily going for it on fourth down inside the 10 with a 17-7 lead. Take the points, extend the lead and demoralize the Pats a little more. Risk/reward: reward -- a first down and by no means a sure touchdown; risk -- give the Pats what they desperately needed, momentum. It was a no brainer call. Or should have been.

 

Dropping Losman into the endzone on third and long from his own 10 was also not too bright. Run it up the gut, have Moorman boom one into Pat territory and take your chances!

 

Forget "we're young and improved from last year" -- we should be 1-0 right now!!

How about the minimum 2 holding calls against guys going against Schobel, the non-call on crushing Moorman, the non-called encroachment before the safety, and the Patsie receiver waves 1st down so we have to run around him and maintain the same angle on measuring whether the 3rd was converted? That's off the top of my head, 10 beers later. We won't include the question about what contact they called on the INT, much less the fact that they blew the whistle when he was never closer than 4' away from the sideline at ANY point during the return.

 

Not that it matters, but I would really like to know if the same zebra that threw the flag on the INT was the same moron that blew the whistle. If it was, I'd like to know how many mortgage payments he had on the game straight up. It had to be at least 10.

 

I would have kicked the field goal at the time, but it wasn't a boneheaded call to go for it.

[Eleven]

Wow, I guess I watched a different game. I hate those ticky tacky block in the back calls as much as anyone else, but they were legitimate penalties. The replays don't lie. That is one thing I do like about NFL officiating -- they are consistent, unlike most hockey refs (pre-2006).

 

The out of bounds call was bizarre, but it didn't really matter with the flag on the ground.

 

If you want to point to conspiracy theories again, fine. But don't ignore the probable real reason the Bills lost -- a bonehead coaching call. I heard Dick Jauron was a conservative coach. No one likes the conservative coach, but sometimes the conservative call is the way to go. He definitely betrayed his reputation by unnecessarily going for it on fourth down inside the 10 with a 17-7 lead. Take the points, extend the lead and demoralize the Pats a little more. Risk/reward: reward -- a first down and by no means a sure touchdown; risk -- give the Pats what they desperately needed, momentum. It was a no brainer call. Or should have been.

 

Dropping Losman into the endzone on third and long from his own 10 was also not too bright. Run it up the gut, have Moorman boom one into Pat territory and take your chances!

 

Forget "we're young and improved from last year" -- we should be 1-0 right now!!

 

Right, right, right, and right.

 

The refs may have missed a holding call on the Pats here or given them an extra yard on third there, but that's NOT what did in the Bills.

 

The "out of bounds" call didn't matter.

 

Stupid blocks in the back for no reason? That was a problem. False starts? Delays of game? Problems. But the kids were alright.

[apuszczalowski]

The "out of bounds" call didn't matter.

Actually it did, because if they didn't blow it dead where they did, the penalty wouldn't have been taken from where it was. They took it from the point where he "ran out of bounds". If it wasn't blown dead, it would have been taken from where the play ended, which would have been MUCH closer to the endzone

[Spandrel]

Yeah, and I think it was the REFS that made Dick Jauron go for it on 4th and 1 on a play other than a QB Sneak thereby shifting the momentum entirely to the Patriots. Luckily, that play had no impact on the final outcome. :rolleyes:

[Taro T]

Yeah, and I think it was the REFS that made Dick Jauron go for it on 4th and 1 on a play other than a QB Sneak thereby shifting the momentum entirely to the Patriots. Luckily, that play had no impact on the final outcome. :rolleyes:

Look, the Patsies did outplay the Bills in the 2nd half, and the Patsies may have won the game in a well called game. The problem is, we will never know if they would have, because it was NOT a well called game. (Unless, of course, you had large sums of money on the Pats straight up.)

 

As it was, the Bills came very close to beating a team that most of the talking heads think is excellent (although I think the team is very overrated). Had they gotten ANY breaks at all, they probaby would have won. They didn't and they didn't, end of story. BUT that won't stop me (and others apparently) from wondering what if.

 

As for the call, Willis typically has a nose for finding the endzone / short yardage needed. I don't mind giving the ball to him, I just would have preferred a quicker developing play.

[Bmwolf21]

Wow, I guess I watched a different game. I hate those ticky tacky block in the back calls as much as anyone else, but they were legitimate penalties. The replays don't lie. That is one thing I do like about NFL officiating -- they are consistent, unlike most hockey refs (pre-2006).

 

The out of bounds call was bizarre, but it didn't really matter with the flag on the ground.

 

If you want to point to conspiracy theories again, fine. But don't ignore the probable real reason the Bills lost -- a bonehead coaching call. I heard Dick Jauron was a conservative coach. No one likes the conservative coach, but sometimes the conservative call is the way to go. He definitely betrayed his reputation by unnecessarily going for it on fourth down inside the 10 with a 17-7 lead. Take the points, extend the lead and demoralize the Pats a little more. Risk/reward: reward -- a first down and by no means a sure touchdown; risk -- give the Pats what they desperately needed, momentum. It was a no brainer call. Or should have been.

 

Dropping Losman into the endzone on third and long from his own 10 was also not too bright. Run it up the gut, have Moorman boom one into Pat territory and take your chances!

 

Forget "we're young and improved from last year" -- we should be 1-0 right now!!

I was all set to throw a "I completely agree with PA 100%" post up here until you mentioned the "bonehead coaching call." It was absolutely the right call to go for it on 4th & 1 - but the play they called wasn't the right one. Nevertheless, after watching Malarkey & co. wimp out time after time and show no confidence in the O, I am glad Jauron went aggressive and went for a knockout blow against one of the NFL's top teams in their home stadium. I'd rather go down swinging than playing it conservative. This time it didn't work, we'll know better for next time, but I love the call.

 

Personally my beef with the coaching was when the Bills had the ball right before the half - and forgot what the hurry-up offense was. We ended up giving Brady the ball with about a minute on the clock, and that's too much time for BRady, Belichek and the Patsies...

 

Right, right, right, and right.

 

The refs may have missed a holding call on the Pats here or given them an extra yard on third there, but that's NOT what did in the Bills.

 

The "out of bounds" call didn't matter.

 

Stupid blocks in the back for no reason? That was a problem. False starts? Delays of game? Problems. But the kids were alright.

I still cannot fathom how NE ended up with only one penalty for the whole game. ONE PENALTY in 60 minutes of football?

 

Actually it did, because if they didn't blow it dead where they did, the penalty wouldn't have been taken from where it was. They took it from the point where he "ran out of bounds". If it wasn't blown dead, it would have been taken from where the play ended, which would have been MUCH closer to the endzone

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the block in the back is a spot foul in the sense that even if he runs it back, the penalty is marched off from the spot of the foul, not from where the run ends. If the penalty had been on the Pats, then the yardage would have been tacked on to the end of the run, but I think they got the spot riught - but I still have no idea why they blew the whistle.

[Eleven]

 

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think the block in the back is a spot foul in the sense that even if he runs it back, the penalty is marched off from the spot of the foul, not from where the run ends. If the penalty had been on the Pats, then the yardage would have been tacked on to the end of the run, but I think they got the spot riught - but I still have no idea why they blew the whistle.

 

You are not wrong. The "bad call" did not matter.

 

Plus, as Sabres fans, we all know you have to beat the referee sometimes. Bitching about the refs in this game is pointless, though.

[Bmwolf21]

Listening to Jauron's comments now, and he just said the same word I said to my wife today - consistency. We have some really good young players, but they aren't consistent enough as a team to beat a real good team - yet. I think they will continue to develop and grow and for the first time in a few years, I am actually looking forward to the rest of the season.

[Goodfella25]

I don't understand how anyone could be surprised. Being a Bills fan, aren't you used to one of these two scenarios playing out each and every Sunday:

 

A) The Bills blow the game/the lead

 

B) The refs screw Buffalo over

[inkman]

I will not succumb to the rally cry about poor officiating. I don't get this mentality. I don't care how bad the calls were.

[siket]

More pathetic? How 'bout the ref calls/non-calls in the Sabres playoff run last year. The NHL made a joke of itself and its' reffing when they didn't make the same calls in the playoffs as they did in the regular season. JOKE. Unfortunately, we all expected it to be that way and it was. :angry:

[shrader]

You are not wrong. The "bad call" did not matter.

 

Which still doesn't make such an atrocious call any less disturbing. How can any professional ref make that call?

[Eleven]

Which still doesn't make such an atrocious call any less disturbing. How can any professional ref make that call?

 

Agreed & I hope the league addresses it. I just don't think the loss can be blamed on officiating.

[Knightrider]

 

If you want to point to conspiracy theories again, fine. But don't ignore the probable real reason the Bills lost -- a bonehead coaching call. I heard Dick Jauron was a conservative coach. No one likes the conservative coach, but sometimes the conservative call is the way to go. He definitely betrayed his reputation by unnecessarily going for it on fourth down inside the 10 with a 17-7 lead.

 

And instead Brady wouldn't have taken a knee for the last 1:50 and we'd have lost by a FG or TD and we'd hear fans cursing DJ for not going for the kill. I'm mean come on, we'd just marched right down the field... <_<

[Stoner]

I just read that Willis McGahee said he didn't know the play was fourth down. WTF! More disturbing to me than Willis not knowing it was fourth down is that he actually admitted it! There's only one plausible reason for admitting such a huge mistake, if it's even true -- he wants out of Buffalo. His absence from the optional camp (or camps) over the summer is another clue. I hope the Bills oblige his wishes soon. This team lacks character, has lacked it since the Super Bowl years IMHO. I just can't stand London Fletcher-Father-Baker making an average tackle (with a strong assist from a teammate), jumping up, separating himself from the afore-mentioned teammate and going into histrionics. Can you imagine a hockey player doing that?

 

Returning to the subject of the officiating, maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention, but what huge officiating blunder are we talking about that screwed the Bills out of a win? The inadvertent whistle? It didn't matter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a block in the back penalty is stepped off from the spot of the foul. Where the player was when the whistle blew is irrelevant.

 

As for the Pats getting just one penalty, that's just an indication of how good they are how well coached they are. Where's it written that the calls have to even out?

 

God, I hate the NFL. I hate the Nike football commercials where Jimmy Johnson and Don Shula coach some high school game with NFL players. It's so dark and disturbing on so many levels.

 

Rant over.

[shrader]

Returning to the subject of the officiating, maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention, but what huge officiating blunder are we talking about that screwed the Bills out of a win? The inadvertent whistle? It didn't matter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a block in the back penalty is stepped off from the spot of the foul. Where the player was when the whistle blew is irrelevant.

 

I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. Like I said earlier, the fact that any ref in the NFL would rule Whitner OB on that run back is very disturbing. Just imagine if that happens on a play without the "block in the back".

 

As for the Pats getting just one penalty, that's just an indication of how good they are how well coached they are. Where's it written that the calls have to even out?

 

Were we watching the same game? They looked horrible. I don't think anything from that game is and indication of how good they are supposed to be.

[Bmwolf21]

I just read that Willis McGahee said he didn't know the play was fourth down. WTF! More disturbing to me than Willis not knowing it was fourth down is that he actually admitted it! There's only one plausible reason for admitting such a huge mistake, if it's even true -- he wants out of Buffalo. His absence from the optional camp (or camps) over the summer is another clue. I hope the Bills oblige his wishes soon. This team lacks character, has lacked it since the Super Bowl years IMHO. I just can't stand London Fletcher-Father-Baker making an average tackle (with a strong assist from a teammate), jumping up, separating himself from the afore-mentioned teammate and going into histrionics. Can you imagine a hockey player doing that?

I'm not a big fan of Willis (haven't been since he torched my Seminoles while he was at "Duh U") and I still believe he is angling his way out of the door after this year. Pre-knee injury, Willis would have been a stud back, and I just don't see him back to the level he was at before his knee was destroyed. I think your comment about character is somewhat accurate - it is something they have sorely lacked in recent years, but I think Marv & Jauron are starting to bring in some high-character talent. Personally I am not a big fan of Fletcher or Clements, but until some of the younger guys are ready to go, we'll have to keep them around.

 

As for the Pats getting just one penalty, that's just an indication of how good they are how well coached they are. Where's it written that the calls have to even out?

I know you can't really think that any football team is mistake and error-free in the first game of a new season, especially since most teams have a handful of new faces on the field. I don't want to say conspiracy, but it seems there were quite a few holdings, roughing the kickers, and other fouls that NE got away with. I don't believe in evening the calls either, but just calling whatever penalties each team commits, and Sunday I didn't see that.

I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. Like I said earlier, the fact that any ref in the NFL would rule Whitner OB on that run back is very disturbing. Just imagine if that happens on a play without the "block in the back".

Were we watching the same game? They looked horrible. I don't think anything from that game is and indication of how good they are supposed to be.

On top of that, it would seem that if the ref wasn't 100% positive that he was OB, the better route to go would have been to let the play finish, then let replay decide if he actually went out of bounds.

 

As for the refs overall, well I guess there is a good reason that some don't get to do playoff & championship games...