When will Darcy make a move to improve the roster?

[LabattBlue]

Assuming the Sabres maintain their current pace(.500 or a few games above or below), when does Darcy make a move to improve the current roster?

 

I think the blueliners have played better of late, but to me this is still the number 1 priority in order to make the playoffs and/or make a run in the playoffs. The blueliner obtained in a trade must be PHYSICAL. Does anyone else feel that our current corp does not put the fear of god into any forward coming into our zone? Opposing players know that they can skate along the boards or in front of the net without being punished.

[blugold43]

i think we all know what to expect from darcy by now.... <_<

[Saber61]

good poll except you forgot the "will never make a trade/good trade" option.

[Larry Playfair]

good poll except you forgot the "will never make a trade/good trade" option.

exactly, i cant even vote b/c the poll asks about a move to "improve" the roster this year, which he is incapable of.

[Eleven]

exactly, i cant even vote b/c the poll asks about a move to "improve" the roster this year, which he is incapable of.

He's made a few good trades. I think it's the retaining and/or signing of free agents where he really shows his weakness.

[Rabbit151]

I know the sabres went through a winless streak, but close to 25 games in, they are above .500 and not looking too bad. If Marty and Mikka keep playing well trade possibilities are much more interesting.

 

There are certainly ways the team could improve, but I'm buying inot Darcy's patient approach.

[Swedesessed]

good poll except you forgot the "will never make a trade/good trade" option.

Thats the option I was looking to vote for myself :D

[nfreeman]

good poll except you forgot the "will never make a trade/good trade" option.

Hold on just a minute. It wasn't so long ago that Darcy allegedly earned a reputation for fleecing other GMs. For example:

 

1. Chris Gratton for Briere

 

2. Mike Wilson for Rhett Warrener

 

3. Warrener for Drury (not a fleece as Warrener was a good player, but still a good trade for the Sabres)

 

4. Michael Grosek for JP Dumont AND Doug Gilmour

 

5. Peca for Connolly and Pyatt (and yes, I am putting that one solidly in Darcy's column as a win)

 

It's worth pointing out that after 20-odd games, the Sabres are four games over .500 despite having lost Miller, Noronen, McKee, Lydman, Kalinin, Dumont, Briere, Max and Pyatt for multiple games with injuries. (Not to mention losing our top scorer and top defenseman from last year, although I think letting both go was absolutely the right move).

 

There are 2 main reasons for our success: Lindy is doing a great job coaching and Darcy has -- without being able to dive into last summer's free agent bonanza due to budgetary constraints -- done a great job putting together a team that is well constructed for the new NHL. The Sabres are fast, highly entertaining, deep although lacking a true superstar, and play with a lot of heart and no quit.

 

It's worth remembering that:

 

4 years ago we lost either the best or 2nd best player the team's ever had (Dominik), and his heir apparent (Marty) crapped the bed for the first but unfortunately not the last time;

 

3 years ago the owner was exposed as a criminal and arrested, putting the team's future in doubt and certainly preventing any major acquisitions;

 

2 years ago the team went bankrupt and was miraculously saved from folding by a new owner, but still under the necessity of maintaining a budget; and

 

last year there was no hockey.

 

So, here we are, in a new league where talented smaller players can be very effective (e.g. Briere and Connolly) and we have a new goalie who seems ready to carry the mail, a bunch of young players who seem to be approaching their potential (Connolly, Kotalik, Max, Campbell), some pretty solid veterans (McKee, Drury, Dumont, Lydman, Numminen) and finally some stable ownership. I like the results so far.

 

I think Darcy deserves to be evaluated on how the team does this year. Yes, I would have liked the past couple of seasons to be better than they were -- who wouldn't? But things were spiraling out of control and it's not fair to hold Darcy responsible for that. It's not realistic to have expected the Sabres to have been in bankruptcy but gone out and spent $20 million on Peter Forsberg and Eddie Belfour. With good goaltending we would have been in the playoffs and probably out in the 1st round. Now, this team is good enough to make a run, and if we do, Darcy and Lindy will deserve the credit.

 

Go Sabres.

[deluca67]

I'm sure you didn't mean to leave out so much?

 

Like?

 

Darcy failing to sign Ron Francis because he didn't want to give a fourth year.

 

Letting Gary Galley and Donald Audette(twice) go without any type of return.

 

Trading Hasek to Detroit for very little(Koslov who became Hecht) They won the Cup didn't they?

 

Letting Andreychuk go even thought he wanted to stay. He has a Cup ring now? Didn't he also have the 'C'?

 

Drury for Rhett. Who played in the last Finals? Chris or Rhett?

 

How did they get Gratton? Holzinger and Sarich right? How did their team do last year?

 

The prospects lost by broken or late faxes?

 

When is the last time Regier signed his own free agent?

 

Also,

 

Regier got the best of the Peca trade? I guess the South really did win the Civil War. I'd take Peca over Connolly or Pyatt any day even with the injuries.

[nfreeman]

I'm sure you didn't mean to leave out so much?

 

Like?

 

Darcy failing to sign Ron Francis because he didn't want to give a fourth year.

 

Letting Gary Galley and Donald Audette(twice) go without any type of return.

 

Trading Hasek to Detroit for very little(Koslov who became Hecht) They won the Cup didn't they?

 

Letting Andreychuk go even thought he wanted to stay. He has a Cup ring now? Didn't he also have the 'C'?

 

Drury for Rhett. Who played in the last Finals? Chris or Rhett?

 

How did they get Gratton? Holzinger and Sarich right? How did their team do last year?

 

The prospects lost by broken or late faxes?

 

When is the last time Regier signed his own free agent?

 

Also,

 

Regier got the best of the Peca trade? I guess the South really did win the Civil War. I'd take Peca over Connolly or Pyatt any day even with the injuries.

 

Deluca -- those are generally reasonable points, although I completely disagree on the Peca trade. As I've said before on these boards, he was and is a decent player with average offensive skills -- nothing more. I think he was the best of a very average group of forwards on Dominik's teams, so he received a lot of publicity when those teams made playoff runs. He "captained" the sabres right out of the playoffs the year after the stanley cup hangover, then sat out an entire season b/c he thought he was worth $4 million. He didn't do anything for the Islanders, got himself traded again and is now riding the bench. He's overrated and overpaid.

 

Here's an item from today's Buffalo News about Peca:

 

"Michael Peca, kicked down to the fourth line with the Oilers, had just one goal and six points in his first 20 games. He was benched for nearly 15 minutes last week after coughing up the puck, leading to a goal against Minnesota. Playing between Georges Laraque and Todd Harvey isn't likely to help his production."

 

As to your other points:

 

Ron Francis -- I don't think it's fair to put this one on Darcy. It's not his money that was being spent and I'd guess that the Adelphia criminals set the limits on how much could be allocated for new free agents. Darcy was smart enough to identify Francis as a difference-maker and take a good run at him.

 

Galley and Audette -- I don't remember for sure, but is it possible this took place under Muckler?

 

Hasek -- we really had no choice in the matter. Everyone knew Dominik wasn't coming back, so we had no leverage to get more for him.

 

Andreychuk -- yes, he wanted to come back, but he was an expensive older player. Again, it wasn't Darcy's money and likely he didn't have final say.

 

Warrener -- A good player, but you have to give up value to get value. I think Drury is a good player too. As far as who made the finals last season, I'm sure you don't think that if we hadn't made the trade we would have been in the finals.

 

Holzinger & Sarich -- In looking at Holzinger's stats, he hasn't done much since leaving and doesn't seem to have much longer in the NHL, even with the new rules. Sarich is a good player, but effectively we traded him for Briere, which I think is a good trade for us.

 

Lost prospects -- I'm aware of only one, but it was certainly a blunder.

 

Signing own free agents -- again, it's not Darcy's money. Furthermore, I'm not sure who you're referring to specifically, but I'm glad to be rid of Satan. I think it's a huge morale deflater when the team's highest paid player is just mailing it in every night. I would have been happy to keep Zhitnik but not at $3.5 million or whatever he got -- he's just not that good.

 

One item you didn't mention is Darcy's poor 1st round picks, which are almost uniformly washouts. He deserves to be held accountable for those.

 

Having said all of the above, I don't disagree that Darcy certainly has made multiple moves that didn't work out well. However, I also think that the Hasek departure, the Biron washout, the Rigas debacle and the subsequent bankruptcy were all crippling blows to a franchise that was competing on the wrong end of an increasingly tilted playing field.

 

It's fair to blame Darcy for Biron, since Biron was the heir apparent and just couldn't carry the mail, but on the other hand Biron's junior and minor credentials were outstanding. It was reasonable to hope/expect that he would develop into a quality NHL starter. Since most prospects do not pan out though, it was also reasonable to draft Noronen and Miller to protect against the possibility that Biron couldn't cut it. I wish we had had a solid veteran in the meantime, and that's also Darcy's fault. But even if we had had one, I doubt if we could have overcome the Rigas debacle and the bankruptcy in 2002 and 2003.

 

In any event, we just polished off the caps for our 5th win in 6 games. It was a pretty convincing win against an inferior team. We are looking pretty damn solid right now, and I think Darcy deserves a lot of credit.

 

Go Sabres.

[Hsoj25]

great posts nfreeman, thanks for something other than the status-quo reactionary bs :)

[deluca67]

Here's an item from today's Buffalo News about Peca:

 

"Michael Peca, kicked down to the fourth line with the Oilers, had just one goal and six points in his first 20 games. He was benched for nearly 15 minutes last week after coughing up the puck, leading to a goal against Minnesota. Playing between Georges Laraque and Todd Harvey isn't likely to help his production."

 

As to your other points:

 

Ron Francis -- I don't think it's fair to put this one on Darcy. It's not his money that was being spent and I'd guess that the Adelphia criminals set the limits on how much could be allocated for new free agents. Darcy was smart enough to identify Francis as a difference-maker and take a good run at him.

 

Peca fall is due to some nasty injuries. Can you say he would have gotten the same injuries playing in buffalo? I doubt it. The same for Varada. Nobody trades thinking a player will get hurt. A healthy Peca is light years ahead Connolly and Pyatt. Will he ever return to form? I don;t think so. I hate seeing young guys forced out due to injuries. Didn't Deadmarsch retire this season.

 

As far as Francis? That was a hockey decision not a money problem. This was back before the 98-99 season. Francis chose Carolina because they were willing to give the fourth year. Regier decided Francis wouldn't be a value in a fourth year. Francis's numbers that fourth year? 27 G's 50 A's. That was on Regier 100%. With Francis's leadership and production combined with Hasek who knows what could have happened.

 

Also,

 

For last night. It was a great 2 points. But they didn't over power Washington. There were points in the game were the Sabres refused to skate and let the Caps stay in the game. A stronger opponent and we could be talking a different result. Which lies the problem with this team. Too many nights off. They took 13 of 14 (could have been 14 of 14 but Ruff threw Drury out there) and are only in 7th place. History would show they are due for a long down streak. If it happenes it will be because they don't skate. I hope ruff can get it into their heads.

[DrunkenSabre]

disagree with the physical bit, todays game is much more positional defensively. someone like hamlrik (or that sort of defensman) i think will be needed. also a good 5/6 defensman is also necessary.

 

trade deadline, obvious. lol

[Knightrider]

Peca fall is due to some nasty injuries. Can you say he would have gotten the same injuries playing in buffalo? I doubt it. The same for Varada. Nobody trades thinking a player will get hurt. A healthy Peca is light years ahead Connolly and Pyatt. Will he ever return to form? I don;t think so. I hate seeing young guys forced out due to injuries.

 

As far as Francis? That was a hockey decision not a money problem. This was back before the 98-99 season. Francis chose Carolina because they were willing to give the fourth year. Regier decided Francis wouldn't be a value in a fourth year. Francis's numbers that fourth year? 27 G's 50 A's. That was on Regier 100%. With Francis's leadership and production combined with Hasek who knows what could have happened.

First you say no one could make the prediction that Peca would wear out, so he doesn't get credit for his "foresight"...

 

Then you say that same "foresight" should have been better with Francis...

 

If Connolly continues to play like he has this year, I may take him over a healthy Peca... (shudder)

[Taro T]

One item you didn't mention is Darcy's poor 1st round picks, which are almost uniformly washouts.  He deserves to be held accountable for those.

Darcy's 1st round picks:

 

1997 - Noronnen

1998 - Kalinen

1999 - Heisten

2000 - Kriukov

2001 - Novotny

2002 - Ballard & Paille

2003 - Vanek

2004 - Stafford

2005 - Zagrapan

 

Out of the 10 picks, I would say there are 4 definite good picks (Noronnen, Kalinen, Ballard, Vanek), 3 that the jury is still out on (Paille, Stafford, Zagrapan), and 3 busts (Heisten, Kriukov, Novotny).

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I don't think the criminals wanted to get goal scorers with their draft picks so I am very interested in seeing how the forwards from Vanek --> present fare over the next few seasons.

[Guest Guest]

Darcy's 1st round picks:

 

1997 - Noronnen

1998 - Kalinen

1999 - Heisten

2000 - Kriukov

2001 - Novotny

2002 - Ballard & Paille

2003 - Vanek

2004 - Stafford

2005 - Zagrapan

 

Out of the 10 picks, I would say there are 4 definite good picks (Noronnen, Kalinen, Ballard, Vanek), 3 that the jury is still out on (Paille, Stafford, Zagrapan), and 3 busts (Heisten, Kriukov, Novotny).

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I don't think the criminals wanted to get goal scorers with their draft picks so I am very interested in seeing how the forwards from Vanek --> present fare over the next few seasons.

 

 

Good post Dave B. I hope you're right on Mika and Kalinin (and Vanek for that matter). Each has shown flashes of excellence, although you couldn't call any of them a great player yet.

 

Further to the Warrener/Drury point made by DeLuca, I went back and figured out what happened to Ballard, who is now a top 6 (if not top 4) defenseman for Phoenix. We traded him for Steve Reinprecht (whom I don't remember at all), and subsequently traded Reinprecht, along with Warrener, for Drury. So we effectively gave up TWO top 4 defensemen (Ballard and Warrener) for Drury. When you combine the value given up in trade with Drury's fat contract, it adds up to paying quite a bit for #23. I like Drury, but I'm not sure he's worth that much.

 

In any event, I'm still happy with Darcy at GM. The month of December will present a fairly stiff test for the team he's put together, especially as regards depth. Although we're not playing the top echelon teams, we're playing a lot of games -- a bunch of back-to-backs, 3 games in 4 nights and 4 games in 6 nights. Our 3rd and 4th lines, 5th & 6th defensemen, and both goalies are going to have to show up strong. Given all of the injuries, the depth in the system will be tested as well.

 

I like what I've seen from our 3rd and 4th lines so far. The Vanek-Roy-Max line has been producing well in the last couple of games, and the Gaustadt-Mair-Peters/whoever line holds up well also.

 

If all goes well, by the end of december, Miller, Briere and Dumont will be back 100% and we will have racked up a bunch of wins against average teams, putting us right in the middle of the 3-4-5 competition in the Eastern Conference. Marty will have played well and raised his trade value, so we can unload him and his contract for something worthwhile. In the meantime, Vanek, Roy and Pominville will have gotten valuable experience.

 

Go Sabres.

[nfreeman]

 

Good post Dave B. I hope you're right on Mika and Kalinin (and Vanek for that matter). Each has shown flashes of excellence, although you couldn't call any of them a great player yet.

 

Further to the Warrener/Drury point made by DeLuca, I went back and figured out what happened to Ballard, who is now a top 6 (if not top 4) defenseman for Phoenix. We traded him for Steve Reinprecht (whom I don't remember at all), and subsequently traded Reinprecht, along with Warrener, for Drury. So we effectively gave up TWO top 4 defensemen (Ballard and Warrener) for Drury. When you combine the value given up in trade with Drury's fat contract, it adds up to paying quite a bit for #23. I like Drury, but I'm not sure he's worth that much.

 

In any event, I'm still happy with Darcy at GM. The month of December will present a fairly stiff test for the team he's put together, especially as regards depth. Although we're not playing the top echelon teams, we're playing a lot of games -- a bunch of back-to-backs, 3 games in 4 nights and 4 games in 6 nights. Our 3rd and 4th lines, 5th & 6th defensemen, and both goalies are going to have to show up strong. Given all of the injuries, the depth in the system will be tested as well.

 

I like what I've seen from our 3rd and 4th lines so far. The Vanek-Roy-Max line has been producing well in the last couple of games, and the Gaustadt-Mair-Peters/whoever line holds up well also.

 

If all goes well, by the end of december, Miller, Briere and Dumont will be back 100% and we will have racked up a bunch of wins against average teams, putting us right in the middle of the 3-4-5 competition in the Eastern Conference. Marty will have played well and raised his trade value, so we can unload him and his contract for something worthwhile. In the meantime, Vanek, Roy and Pominville will have gotten valuable experience.

 

Go Sabres.

 

 

Oops. Forgot to log in. The above is from me (don't want to tick anyone off with an anonymous post).

[Taro T]

Further to the Warrener/Drury point made by DeLuca, I went back and figured out what happened to Ballard, who is now a top 6 (if not top 4) defenseman for Phoenix.  We traded him for Steve Reinprecht (whom I don't remember at all), and subsequently traded Reinprecht, along with Warrener, for Drury.  So we effectively gave up TWO top 4 defensemen (Ballard and Warrener) for Drury.  When you combine the value given up in trade with Drury's fat contract, it adds up to paying quite a bit for #23.  I like Drury, but I'm not sure he's worth that much.

 

In any event, I'm still happy with Darcy at GM.  The month of December will present a fairly stiff test for the team he's put together, especially as regards depth.  Although we're not playing the top echelon teams, we're playing a lot of games -- a bunch of back-to-backs, 3 games in 4 nights and 4 games in 6 nights.  Our 3rd and 4th lines, 5th & 6th defensemen, and both goalies are going to have to show up strong.  Given all of the injuries, the depth in the system will be tested as well.

 

I like what I've seen from our 3rd and 4th lines so far.  The Vanek-Roy-Max line has been producing well in the last couple of games, and the Gaustadt-Mair-Peters/whoever line holds up well also. 

 

If all goes well, by the end of december, Miller, Briere and Dumont will be back 100% and we will have racked up a bunch of wins against average teams, putting us right in the middle of the 3-4-5 competition in the Eastern Conference.  Marty will have played well and raised his trade value, so we can unload him and his contract for something worthwhile.  In the meantime, Vanek, Roy and Pominville will have gotten valuable experience.

 

Go Sabres.

I would agree that Warrener AND Ballard for Drury is not a good trade. However, if the Sabres still had Steve Begin, I think it would be a fairly even trade as Reinprect and Warrener definitely helped Calgary and Drury was/is a leader on the Sabres and Begin is one heck of a hockey player.

 

Unfortunately, the Sabres lost Begin in the now defunct waiver draft. I've always hated the waiver draft as it penalizes teams that are in Buffalo's situation, i.e., teams with a lot of 2nd / 3rd line quality players. It especially penalizes Buffalo, which is a team with a lot of 2nd / 3rd liners and no / few real top liners.

 

As for Darcy, I will wait until after this season and into next season to decide whether he is good, bad, or indifferent. I think all the distractions of working for criminals followed by working under receivership do not allow for a fair evaluation of his efforts. I am leaning toward him being a good but not great GM, but will wait to pass judgement.

[deluca67]

First you say no one could make the prediction that Peca would wear out, so he doesn't get credit for his "foresight"...

 

Then you say that same "foresight" should have been better with Francis...

 

If Connolly continues to play like he has this year, I may take him over a healthy Peca... (shudder)

You can't predict injuries. Which is way different from making a call on the long term production of a player. Francis was a player who had everything the Sabres needed at that time. Expierence, production, leadership and respect.

 

And if Connolly plays like he has been all year I might agree. Peca was a player who could bring it every night. Connolly has yet to show he could do that. He is prone to take many nights off. We'll have to see.

[deluca67]

Darcy's 1st round picks:

 

1997 - Noronnen

1998 - Kalinen

1999 - Heisten

2000 - Kriukov

2001 - Novotny

2002 - Ballard & Paille

2003 - Vanek

2004 - Stafford

2005 - Zagrapan

 

Out of the 10 picks, I would say there are 4 definite good picks (Noronnen, Kalinen, Ballard, Vanek), 3 that the jury is still out on (Paille, Stafford, Zagrapan), and 3 busts (Heisten, Kriukov, Novotny).

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I don't think the criminals wanted to get goal scorers with their draft picks so I am very interested in seeing how the forwards from Vanek --> present fare over the next few seasons.

Any idea on how many of the Sabres draft picks under Regier the team signed? It doesn't seem like they sign many.

[nfreeman]

You can't predict injuries. Which is way different from making a call on the long term production of a player. Francis was a player who had everything the Sabres needed at that time. Expierence, production, leadership and respect.

 

And if Connolly plays like he has been all year I might agree. Peca was a player who could bring it every night. Connolly has yet to show he could do that. He is prone to take many nights off. We'll have to see.

 

No question that you can't predict injuries. However, Peca was a small guy who played a high-contact game, so maybe his wearing down was somewhat foreseeable. I also don't know that the injuries are what has caused his downfall. He was a good skater when he was a Sabre -- has he slowed down? He never had much in the way of offensive skills. His game was always built on checking -- and that is a much tougher task in the new NHL.

 

I can't agree that Peca brought it every night -- not after his last 2 years here. He mailed it in the entire year after we got hosed in the finals and took the team -- his team, b/c he was the captain -- down the drain with him. Then he sat out the next year b/c he thought he was worth $4 million per year.

 

IMHO, his 16 to 22 goals per year and that kind of crappy departure just doesn't get him into the French Connection/Danny Gare/Jim Schoenfeld/Dominik pantheon.

 

As far as Connolly, while he certainly failed to show up plenty of times in '02 and earlier, he has been solid as a rock this year. You're right, he has to prove himself over a longer period of time, esp. after dogging it earlier in his career. But I think he's turned the corner and will have a much better year (and future years) than Peca. For that matter I wouldn't be surprised if Pyatt had a better year than Peca, notwithstanding Pyatt's injury.

[Taro T]

Any idea on how many of the Sabres draft picks under Regier the team signed? It doesn't seem like they sign many.

No data, but the only 2 that I can think of that they WANTED to sign but couldn't / didn't were Heisten and Zigomanis.

[Larry Playfair]

I am leaning toward him being a good but not great GM, but will wait to pass judgement.

Youre willing to wait into next year to pass judgment on Regier??? Are you nuts, or is this Golisano posting????

 

The guy has this year to make it. If the sabes fail to make the playoffs, his failure to make moves after the new contract was signed (which I could understand), coupled with his failure to make any moves during the season when the sabes were still in the hunt, should be enough rope to hang himself.

 

Sabes have to make the playoffs this year, or else he is a collosal failure and must go.

 

But at 1/4 point, his non-moves seem to be working out nicely. Other teams will improve themselves, and if the sabes dont and fall short of a playoff seed, then he is at fault.

[deluca67]

Youre willing to wait into next year to pass judgment on Regier??? Are you nuts, or is this Golisano posting????

 

The guy has this year to make it. If the sabes fail to make the playoffs, his failure to make moves after the new contract was signed (which I could understand), coupled with his failure to make any moves during the season when the sabes were still in the hunt, should be enough rope to hang himself.

 

Sabes have to make the playoffs this year, or else he is a collosal failure and must go.

 

But at 1/4 point, his non-moves seem to be working out nicely. Other teams will improve themselves, and if the sabes dont and fall short of a playoff seed, then he is at fault.

A sane voice in the wilderness ;)

[Knightrider]

You can't predict injuries. Which is way different from making a call on the long term production of a player. Francis was a player who had everything the Sabres needed at that time. Expierence, production, leadership and respect.

 

And if Connolly plays like he has been all year I might agree. Peca was a player who could bring it every night. Connolly has yet to show he could do that. He is prone to take many nights off. We'll have to see.

With the hits Peca delivered despite his size, I think you probably could make that prediction. Mind you, I most certainly did not, but, given his eroneous estimation of Francis's longevity, don't you think he may have pulled out similar logic regarding Peca?

 

The reason I loved Peca was that he did bring it every night. Hopefully Connolly can step up...