Rookie question: Miller & Kalinin

[Quickdraw]

Hi, sorry for asking such a newbie question, but what is the reason Miller and Kalinin are not signed? Were they both RFA's who did not opt for arbitration? Or were they something else? What would their motivation be for not opting for arbitration. Also, what is a qualifying offer and what does it mean when someone accepts it?

 

Thanks in advance. Perhaps we can make a sticky thread for newbs like me who would like to understand the whole offseason process.

[slapshot1619]

you got it right with the first question... they were RFAs and didn't opt for arbitration. Miller wants a long term deal as does kalinin

[Quickdraw]

you got it right with the first question... they were RFAs and didn't opt for arbitration. Miller wants a long term deal as does kalinin

 

So is this similar to what Peca did when he held out for a contract with the Sabres? Could Miller and Kalinin potentially be hold-outs and sit until the contract disputes are settled?

[shrader]

So is this similar to what Peca did when he held out for a contract with the Sabres? Could Miller and Kalinin potentially be hold-outs and sit until the contract disputes are settled?

 

Anything's possible, but don't expect it. The arbitrations had to be taken care of first, since there was a short window of time for those hearings. Miller's agent has even stated that they were going to let the team take care of those players first and then they'd get to work on a new, long term deal.

[hopeleslyobvious]

Hi, sorry for asking such a newbie question, but what is the reason Miller and Kalinin are not signed? Were they both RFA's who did not opt for arbitration? Or were they something else? What would their motivation be for not opting for arbitration. Also, what is a qualifying offer and what does it mean when someone accepts it?

 

Thanks in advance. Perhaps we can make a sticky thread for newbs like me who would like to understand the whole offseason process.

 

A qualifying offer is the offer that you make to a restricted free agent to keep his rights. The amount of the qualifying offer is set in the CBA. The qualifying offer is the player's salary for last year, or a slight raise (depending on how much he was making before). If a team qualifies a RFA, he can't sign anywhere else. He can either accept his qualifying offer or try to work out a long term deal.

[Stoner]

If a team qualifies a RFA, he can't sign anywhere else. He can either accept his qualifying offer or try to work out a long term deal.

 

Or he can go to arbitration, be awarded a nice deal and become a UFA when the team walks away. Right? Or did we not qualify Dumont, allowing him to choose arbitration? Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave!

[FearTheReaper]

i'm not to worried about millers deal because hes obviously gonna be the starting goaltender,kalinin on the other hand is uncertain

[hopeleslyobvious]

Or he can go to arbitration, be awarded a nice deal and become a UFA when the team walks away. Right? Or did we not qualify Dumont, allowing him to choose arbitration? Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave!

 

Yes, you are right. That's what I get for trying to type in a hurry. I believe the team can also take the player to arbitration under the new CBA.

 

i'm not to worried about millers deal because hes obviously gonna be the starting goaltender,kalinin on the other hand is uncertain

 

 

Please explain. I fail to see how Miller being the starter makes his deal get done any quicker. As for Kalinin, he definately still has a spot in the depth chart. I see a forward being traded before Kalinin being let go.

[FearTheReaper]

well marty is definitly on the move,as for miller,hes young,he has great potential,and his deal will be much less than birons.not to mention biron is alot older.basically we can get alot more longevity with miller

[hopeleslyobvious]

well marty is definitly on the move,as for miller,hes young,he has great potential,and his deal will be much less than birons.not to mention biron is alot older.basically we can get alot more longevity with miller

 

Biron is 3 years older than Miller. That's not a huge difference IMHO. If you think Miller's deal is going to be for much less money than Biron's, you are going to be disappointed.

[shrader]

If a team qualifies a RFA, he can't sign anywhere else. He can either accept his qualifying offer or try to work out a long term deal.

 

This is not entirely true. A RFA can sign with another team, but the original team is given the chance to match that contract. Sure, RFA's almost never sign an offer sheet with another team, but it can happen.

 

Yes, you are right. That's what I get for trying to type in a hurry. I believe the team can also take the player to arbitration under the new CBA.

 

Teams can take a player to arbitration once during his career. It's new to the CBA this year and hasn't happened yet. Teams cannot walk away from the contract if they were the one that called for the arbitration.

[Taro T]

Or he can go to arbitration, be awarded a nice deal and become a UFA when the team walks away. Right? Or did we not qualify Dumont, allowing him to choose arbitration? Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave!

This is probably my last post regarding FA as I have addressed it far too often.

 

There are 6 classes of players. At the end of their current contract they will either become RFA's or UFA's. Teams cannot renegotiate contracts. Teams cannot extend entry level deals.

 

Teams cannot extend contracts until the player is in the final year of the deal. Teams cannot extend 1 year contracts until after January 1. Only players on entry level contracts, injured players (with qualifications), and old vets signing 1 year deals can get bonuses. The length of an entry level deal is based on how old the player is when he signs the contract. They range from 3 years long for 18-20 year olds down to 1 year deals for players that are 24. NA players older than that are not in the entry level system. European players between the ages of 24-27 are in the entry level system for 1 year.

 

The status of the various player groups follows.

 

Group 1 - guys on entry level contracts, the team OWNS them

 

Group 2 - Standard RFA's

 

Group 3 - Standard UFA's

 

Group 4 - "Defective" players - basically guys that play in Europe rather than play in NA. For the most part they are RFA's

 

Group 5 - Basically 10 year vets making below the league average. They are UFA's

 

Group 6 - Basically career minor leaguers whose contracts have expired. They are UFA's.

 

For a guy in Group 2 (or Group 4), the team retains their rights to match an offer by making a QO. If a Group 2 player signs a contract with someone else, the team can elect to match the offer. If they don't match, the team gets compensation ranging from a 3rd rounder to 4 1sts. (Players that sign for less than $660k and Group 4 FA's don't bring anything back in compensation.)

 

If the team does not make a QO to a Group 2 or Group 4 FA, that player becomes an UFA (I guess, to keep everyone covered under a category they should be "Group 7" FA's, but the league decided 6 categories was enough.) McMorrow fits this classification.

 

If an RFA signs his QO by the deadline (QO's are good for ~2 weeks) then he is signed. Roy and Paetsch are examples. If an RFA doesn't sign his QO, he can file for arbitration (if he has enough pro experience (minimum 1 year), it varies by age and max's out at needing 4 years) or he can try to negotiate a contract with the team or any other team (although it is extremely rare for a RFA to get an offer from another team).

 

If a player files for arbitration and he has more than 1 more year to play to reach UFA status, the team can elect to have the arbitrator choose a 1 or 2 year deal. Guys that are 1 year away from UFA status get 1 year arbitration deals. The league and union choose the date and arbitrator for each player. They also compile the list of "comparable" players and update the list daily.

 

If a player or team has chosen arbitration, the team and player can negotiate with each other up until the arbitrator issues his decision (56 of the players that filed for arbitration signed with their team before a ruling was issued). If the arbitrator issues a decision, the player must abide by it. The team can walk away from 50% (rounded up) of the decisions for more than $1.042MM that are awarded to its players. If a team walks away, the player is immediately an UFA. The team has 48 hours after the last arbitration related action it will face to decide whether to walk away from any awards. The team and player may not modify the arbitrator's decision. The player must sign it and the team must sign it or walk away from it.

 

A team can initiate arbitration against up to 2 players as well. They don't have to give a QO to players they take to arbitration if the player made $1.5MM or more in the previous season, but no player will get an award of less than 85% of what he did the previous season. If they gave a player a QO and he didn't accept it and they take the player to arbitration, they have to give the player at least as much as he made the previous season. No player can face team initiated arbitration more than once in his career. The player chooses arbitration term in team initiated arbitration with the same caveots the team faces. Teams can't walk away from team initiated arbitration.

 

Players that get 2 year awards that would qualify for Group 5 status entering the 2nd year can void the 2nd year of the award after the 1st year and become a Group 5 FA.

 

RFA's that don't sign their QO and don't go to arbitration have until December 1 to get a contract worked out or they cannot play that season.

 

I don't know why it took the NHL and the union over 40 pages to say this. :P

[Bmwolf21]

That post should be pinned somewhere, so all Dave has to do is link to it whenever there is a question...

[shrader]

That post should be pinned somewhere, so all Dave has to do is link to it whenever there is a question...

 

No, dave has to be available 24/7 so that our questions can be answered. :angry:

[Bmwolf21]

No, dave has to be available 24/7 so that our questions can be answered. :angry:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Just trying to make dave's life a little easier. Its bad enough he has to answer the questions of us regular idiots; now he has to deal with new idiots who don't believe him too...

[shrader]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Just trying to make dave's life a little easier. Its bad enough he has to answer the questions of us regular idiots; now he has to deal with new idiots who don't believe him too...

 

Well I'm starting to read a bit of the CBA, so hopefully I can answer some basic questions eventually. I'll never get to dave status, but it can't hurt.

[hopeleslyobvious]

This is not entirely true. A RFA can sign with another team, but the original team is given the chance to match that contract. Sure, RFA's almost never sign an offer sheet with another team, but it can happen.

Teams can take a player to arbitration once during his career. It's new to the CBA this year and hasn't happened yet. Teams cannot walk away from the contract if they were the one that called for the arbitration.

 

Yes, you are right. Ugh, I am botching up some easy stuff today.

[hopeleslyobvious]

Well I'm starting to read a bit of the CBA, so hopefully I can answer some basic questions eventually. I'll never get to dave status, but it can't hurt.

 

I decided to start reading the CBA today as well. Just a quick note on this discussion is that if another team makes a bigger offer to a RFA, and it is not matched, they have to compensate with draft picks.