Nagy vs. Briere

[Alaska Darin]

Anyone who thinks Briere wouldn't get $5,000,000 for a number of years on the open market is nuts. While the arbitrator's ruling sucks for the Sabres, it's definitely realistic as far as what Briere would make as a free agent.

[Top Shelf]

Anyone who thinks Briere wouldn't get $5,000,000 for a number of years on the open market is nuts. While the arbitrator's ruling sucks for the Sabres, it's definitely realistic as far as what Briere would make as a free agent.

 

Alaska... I agree with you on the Briere thing... The number I was guessing was a little lower than the 5 mil, but not too far off... I think he's a great player, and I'm sure he'll give us our money's worth...

 

The point I was trying to make was the difference between similar/almost similar players, and that magic "flip of the coin" to come up with 3 vs. 5 million is huge...

 

I'm wondering how popular arbitration will be next year after the owners/players will have a chance to see how the "roll of the dice" works... As of now, it's obviously benefitted the players. I really haven't seen them tell a guy he was overpaid, and cut his salary... I think it will be interesting to see how frequently teams/players will put their fate in the hands of the "third party". At this point, there really hasn't been anything done to encourage a player from accepting his qualifying offer and avoid arbitration...

 

I think someone mentioned the timing factor earlier in this thread... What would have happened if Briere went last, and a guy like Nagy went first??? If the 3 mil is dished out at the beginning of arbitration, does Briere's award go down?

 

In the meantime, I hope Tommy G has in fact committed to keeping most of the guys that are under contract at this point... I can't wait for the season to start, and think about hockey instead of the salary cap... I don't ever remember an offseason quite like this one, where I've been plastered to the web to see if a move has been made... put me out of my misery, and let's fast forward to October 4th...

[deluca67]

Anyone who thinks Briere wouldn't get $5,000,000 for a number of years on the open market is nuts. While the arbitrator's ruling sucks for the Sabres, it's definitely realistic as far as what Briere would make as a free agent.

 

Please define "open market".

 

I don't think "open market" should be define by what the NY Rangers or Toronto Maple Laughs do. Just because teams that fail season after season and make mistakes season after season. Those teams shouldn't have those mistakes set the standard.

 

Briere is no more worthy of a $5 million contract then Havlett is his $6 million contract. Neither player has ever come close to 50 goals or 100 points. They are both average players who have showed a flash here and there but never over a complete season. ;)

[Taro T]

Alaska... I agree with you on the Briere thing... The number I was guessing was a little lower than the 5 mil, but not too far off... I think he's a great player, and I'm sure he'll give us our money's worth...

 

The point I was trying to make was the difference between similar/almost similar players, and that magic "flip of the coin" to come up with 3 vs. 5 million is huge...

 

I'm wondering how popular arbitration will be next year after the owners/players will have a chance to see how the "roll of the dice" works... As of now, it's obviously benefitted the players. I really haven't seen them tell a guy he was overpaid, and cut his salary... I think it will be interesting to see how frequently teams/players will put their fate in the hands of the "third party". At this point, there really hasn't been anything done to encourage a player from accepting his qualifying offer and avoid arbitration...

 

I think someone mentioned the timing factor earlier in this thread... What would have happened if Briere went last, and a guy like Nagy went first??? If the 3 mil is dished out at the beginning of arbitration, does Briere's award go down?

 

In the meantime, I hope Tommy G has in fact committed to keeping most of the guys that are under contract at this point... I can't wait for the season to start, and think about hockey instead of the salary cap... I don't ever remember an offseason quite like this one, where I've been plastered to the web to see if a move has been made... put me out of my misery, and let's fast forward to October 4th...

A big part of the reason for that is there were no team elected arbitrations. Most players that would have "lost" in an arbitration weren't given qualifying offers at all, and the handful that were given them were smart enough to sign the QO.

[nfreeman]

Briere / Drury has nothing to do with it, but I'll bet that if Drury had been in arbitration this summer, his award would have been closer to $5M than to $3M.

 

Definitely. 30 goals, a co-captain, clutch, etc. etc. I'm thinking $4.5 million or so.

 

My 2 cents on Briere/Nagy this is that the big difference between the 2 is that Danny was a co-captain on a team that clearly had a great attitude. The Sabres showed nonstop hustle and a refusal to quit on an amazingly consistent basis. We had an amazing season, with a great playoff run. Danny, the co-captain, gets a lot of credit for team attitude and performance. And it wasn't just the intangibles -- he was a force when he returned from injury. He also had a great playoffs.

 

Is that worth $2 million more than Nagy?

 

Well -- would you rather have Danny next year at $5 million or, say, Miro at $3 million? (For the record, Miro made $4.25 million last year and had 35-31-66). While I know what DeLuca will say, I personally would take Danny. I'm not saying that Nagy is a floater like Miro who mails it in consistently and inevitably inspires his teammates to do the same, but Danny most assuredly is not. He's tough, dynamic, clutch and a leader.

 

If Nagy has those qualities as well (I will freely admit that since I had no idea who Nagy was before reading this thread, I'm not qualified to opine fully) , then the 2 compensation figures should have been closer. If Nagy is just another skilled guy who floats around but puts up decent numbers, then the spread is justified.

[X. Benedict]

Anyone who thinks Briere wouldn't get $5,000,000 for a number of years on the open market is nuts. While the arbitrator's ruling sucks for the Sabres, it's definitely realistic as far as what Briere would make as a free agent.

 

I think it was on the highest end of the spectrum. Realistic yes, but a high end deal for someone that could have gone between 4.25 - 5.00.

[Rabbit151]

Yes, the results of early arbitration awards can be used in hearings. RFA signings that didn't go to arbitration are also potential comparables. To help "clarify" things, I have listed below the items that may and may not be presented to the arbitrator.

What "evidence" parties may bring before the arbitrator:

 

Official stats (basically any stat the league keeps tabs on);

 

Games played by player and illnesses / injuries;

 

How long a player has played in the league and on a particular team;

 

How much the particular player contributed to his team's overall success (a VERY subjective item);

 

Special leadership or public appeal qualities (again, a VERY subjective item);

 

Performance of "comparable" players (subjective, but not nearly AS subjective);

 

Compensation of "comparable" players (again subjective).

 

Note that "comparable" players can only be considered by the Arbitrator IF the player or team presents him as a comparable player. The Arbitrator can't choose his own set of comparables from the entire league, he can only choose his comparables from the lists submitted to him. Also, the league and NHLPA put together a listing of "comparables" prior to this whole procedure. This listing essentially includes all Group 2 players that have a signed contract. The team and player then choose the data from that to support their positions.

What "evidence" is inadmissible:

 

Player contracts for anyone who wasn't a group 2 (RFA) free agent at the beginning of that contract;

 

A slew of items that pertain primarily to past negotiations between the team and player;

 

Any arbitration decision the team walked away from; and

 

Arbitration awards from the old CBA and arbitration awards from '05-'06. (This year's arbitration awards will be fair game for future arbitration hearings.)

Also, as a side note, I have no idea how the team and player present arguments for or against his leadership abilities, public qualities, and how much he contributed to the team's success. The reason I don't know this is, although the team or player may bring in witnesses to support their case; testimonials, videotapes, newspaper clippings, press game reports, and "other such materials" are not allowed to be presented. If the player wears an A or a C, I can see that as an indication of "leadership abilities", but how would a guy that is a leader but doesn't wear a letter PROVE it? Also, what's the point of being allowed to bring in a witness if "testimonials" are not allowed?

 

 

So for all us cynics out here, we can now consider the "good guys " on the team who seem to work tirelessly for the community, charity, etc. to be nothing more than smart business men who plan on using their community service as arbitration leverage.

 

The business side of hockey has been sucking the life and integrity out of the sport for years. Now we can't even hold up the "good guys" as shining examples of decency and honor. Instead, they are presented to us as rat-finks looking for an edge to make the bucks. Oh what a world we live in.

[X. Benedict]

So for all us cynics out here, we can now consider the "good guys " on the team who seem to work tirelessly for the community, charity, etc. to be nothing more than smart business men who plan on using their community service as arbitration leverage.

 

The business side of hockey has been sucking the life and integrity out of the sport for years. Now we can't even hold up the "good guys" as shining examples of decency and honor. Instead, they are presented to us as rat-finks looking for an edge to make the bucks. Oh what a world we live in.

 

You can be a cynic - but if you need an example of decency and honor look to the

Sabres Alums - those guys have been giving back for years.

[Eleven]

Definitely. 30 goals, a co-captain, clutch, etc. etc. I'm thinking $4.5 million or so.

 

My 2 cents on Briere/Nagy this is that the big difference between the 2 is that Danny was a co-captain on a team that clearly had a great attitude. The Sabres showed nonstop hustle and a refusal to quit on an amazingly consistent basis. We had an amazing season, with a great playoff run. Danny, the co-captain, gets a lot of credit for team attitude and performance. And it wasn't just the intangibles -- he was a force when he returned from injury. He also had a great playoffs.

 

Is that worth $2 million more than Nagy?

 

Well -- would you rather have Danny next year at $5 million or, say, Miro at $3 million? (For the record, Miro made $4.25 million last year and had 35-31-66). While I know what DeLuca will say, I personally would take Danny. I'm not saying that Nagy is a floater like Miro who mails it in consistently and inevitably inspires his teammates to do the same, but Danny most assuredly is not. He's tough, dynamic, clutch and a leader.

 

If Nagy has those qualities as well (I will freely admit that since I had no idea who Nagy was before reading this thread, I'm not qualified to opine fully) , then the 2 compensation figures should have been closer. If Nagy is just another skilled guy who floats around but puts up decent numbers, then the spread is justified.

 

You articulated my opinion better than I did.