The blueliners are not cutting it,

[LabattBlue]

It has been clear to me since before the season began, that the current blueliners are not adequate for the Sabres to make the playoffs, let alone make a run in the playoffs. The question is, how long will it be before Darcy attempts to rectify the problem? The only other guy in Rochester worthy of a call up is Janik and I don't think he would be anything more than a temporary stop gap as a 6th or 7th defenseman.

 

Part with any forward(s) except for Vanek or Briere, part with Biron(when Miller comes back), part with a #1 pick or even two, but get a QUALITY defenseman in here ASAP. Waiting until the trade deadline will be too late.

 

 

PS Quinn, Regier & Ruff all should be shown the door. The notion that this team was in perfect position to take advantage of the "new" NHL is a FARCE!!

[deluca67]

It has been clear to me since before the season began, that the current blueliners are not adequate for the Sabres to make the playoffs, let alone make a run in the playoffs. The question is, how long will it be before Darcy attempts to rectify the problem? The only other guy in Rochester worthy of a call up is Janik and I don't think he would be anything more than a temporary stop gap as a 6th or 7th defenseman.

 

Part with any forward(s) except for Vanek or Briere, part with Biron(when Miller comes back), part with a #1 pick or even two, but get a QUALITY defenseman in here ASAP. Waiting until the trade deadline will be too late.

 

 

PS Quinn, Regier & Ruff all should be shown the door. The notion that this team was in perfect position to take advantage of the "new" NHL is a FARCE!!

The head of the nail has been struck.

 

I am starting to believe that the on-ice product is at the bottom of the priority list.

[hopeleslyobvious]

I agree. While we were and still are in pretty good shape up front our defense is not prepared for the new NHL. If we are going to play as aggressively as we would like to on offense, we need some blueliners that can hold their own. Needless to say they fall short.

[DrunkenSabre]

our blueliners totally suck, Lydman is about the only half decent thing back there, and his not fantastic. ruff has even explained how it can work, and STILL they arent intelligent enough to do it. we need some premier defensman (NOT NUMMINEN!) to fill the whole on the top line.

[DoctorDeadly]

Darcy Regier quoting on what is he going to do about our blueliners, "ah...ah..ah let me think fans....sit on my ass and wait till the right deal comes along, it could be awhile so bare with me fans" you know my routine....lol

[nfreeman]

It has been clear to me since before the season began, that the current blueliners are not adequate for the Sabres to make the playoffs, let alone make a run in the playoffs. The question is, how long will it be before Darcy attempts to rectify the problem? The only other guy in Rochester worthy of a call up is Janik and I don't think he would be anything more than a temporary stop gap as a 6th or 7th defenseman.

 

Part with any forward(s) except for Vanek or Briere, part with Biron(when Miller comes back), part with a #1 pick or even two, but get a QUALITY defenseman in here ASAP. Waiting until the trade deadline will be too late.

 

 

PS Quinn, Regier & Ruff all should be shown the door. The notion that this team was in perfect position to take advantage of the "new" NHL is a FARCE!!

 

 

I completely agree that we need another defenseman, but:

 

1. I don't think there are too many good ones on the market -- remember, they have to be able to skate now; and

 

2. I think in order to get one, we'd have to give up something we wouldn't want to lose -- ie briere, vanek, max, kotalik or connelly (yes, I put connelly in this group). No one is going to give us a legit top 4 NHL defenseman for Biron, Noronen, Grier, Dumont, Pyatt, any of our defensemen, or draft picks.

 

That leaves Drury or Roy. I would trade either of those 2 for a very good defenseman, but not for a lesser player. I think for Drury or Roy, we'd only get someone who's about as good as Lydman, Kalinin or Tallinder -- and I wouldn't make that trade.

 

As far as canning Regier and Ruff, let's remember that we were 7 and 3 when Miller got hurt. Miller had started EVERY game of the year! There was a reason for that -- he game the team much more confidence than Biron did, and they played much better in front of him as a result. Since Miller's been out, we are 1 and 5.

 

There aren't many teams that could lose their top goalie and 2 of their top 4 defensemen, play 2 games against Ottawa and 2 against Montreal and not be at a serious disadvantage. I think with Miller playing we would have been at least 3 and 3, which would put us at 10-6, which would be pretty good. When Miller was in there, the team was highly entertaining and well constructed for the new NHL -- and that was before Vanek started scoring.

 

Losing Miller for 25 games or so is a huge blow, but I think we'll play well enough in the 2nd half with him back (as well as Lydman and McKee) to get into the playoffs.

 

Also, one unexpected (by me, anyway) benefit of Lydman and McKee being out has been improved play by Campbell. He seems have responded well to the extra ice time and is playing with more confidence and fewer mistakes.

 

I hate the losing as much as anyone, but I really believe it all comes back to goaltending, and the confidence that a good goalie gives to a young, unaccomplished team.

 

Go Sabres.

[Larry Playfair]

As far as canning Regier and Ruff, let's remember that we were 7 and 3 when Miller got hurt. Miller had started EVERY game of the year! There was a reason for that -- he game the team much more confidence than Biron did, and they played much better in front of him as a result. Since Miller's been out, we are 1 and 5.

 

There aren't many teams that could lose their top goalie and 2 of their top 4 defensemen, play 2 games against Ottawa and 2 against Montreal and not be at a serious disadvantage. I think with Miller playing we would have been at least 3 and 3, which would put us at 10-6, which would be pretty good. When Miller was in there, the team was highly entertaining and well constructed for the new NHL -- and that was before Vanek started scoring.

 

Losing Miller for 25 games or so is a huge blow, but I think we'll play well enough in the 2nd half with him back (as well as Lydman and McKee) to get into the playoffs.

True. But my leash is short for these guys, and if the loses continue to pile up in December and Jnuary, we need to pull the trigger on Ruff and Regier.

 

I expect, unfortunately, that this wouldnt be done by the Sabes in midseason, and that we would have to wait for summer to see any changes.

[Kristian]

Dealing Drury would be a nice idea.

 

As it is, he's sucking up salary, and losing value by the second. Dealing him this season, you'd still be able get something in return.

 

But knowing Regier, Bob Corkum is probably already working out to get in shape for the deadline.

[LabattBlue]

2. I think in order to get one, we'd have to give up something we wouldn't want to lose -- ie briere, vanek, max, kotalik or connelly (yes, I put connelly in this group). No one is going to give us a legit top 4 NHL defenseman for Biron, Noronen, Grier, Dumont, Pyatt, any of our defensemen, or draft picks.

You have to give up something to get something and as I stated in my original post, except for Vanek and Briere, everyone is fair game. Losing Max, Kotalik or Connolly for a "true" top 4 defenseman, would be well worth it.

[hopeleslyobvious]

Dealing Drury would be a nice idea.

 

As it is, he's sucking up salary, and losing value by the second. Dealing him this season, you'd still be able get something in return.

 

But knowing Regier, Bob Corkum is probably already working out to get in shape for the deadline.

Bring back Corkum!!!

[nfreeman]

You have to give up something to get something and as I stated in my original post, except for Vanek and Briere, everyone is fair game. Losing Max, Kotalik or Connolly for a "true" top 4 defenseman, would be well worth it.

 

 

I don't agree that giving up Max, Kotalik or Connelly for a true top 4 defenseman would be well worth it. Would you trade any of those 3 for Zhitnik? or Rhett Warrener? or Lydman? Those 3 are all true top 4 NHL defensemen. While each is a good player that I would be glad to have on the Sabres, I wouldn't trade Max, Kotelik or Connelly for any of them as each is capable of scoring 40 goals in the new NHL.

 

Now, if you're talking about a true #1 defenseman, ie a guy who can be an intense team leader and intimidator as well as contribute a hard, accurate shot from the point, then I might think about it. But not just a top 4 guy.

[Taro T]

 

I don't agree that giving up Max, Kotalik or Connelly for a true top 4 defenseman would be well worth it.  Would you trade any of those 3 for Zhitnik?  or Rhett Warrener?  or Lydman?  Those 3 are all true top 4 NHL defensemen.  While each is a good player that I would be glad to have on the Sabres, I wouldn't trade Max, Kotelik or Connelly for any of them as each is capable of scoring 40 goals in the new NHL. 

 

Now, if you're talking about a true #1 defenseman, ie a guy who can be an intense team leader and intimidator as well as contribute a hard, accurate shot from the point, then I might think about it.  But not just a top 4 guy.

I would not mind trading Max for a Zhitnik. My gut feel is that he will max out at roughly a 30 gpy player even with the new rules. If I thought he could advance to consistantly be a 40 gpy man, then I would want more for him; but I just don't see it happening.

 

I would not be surprised to see the Sabres trade either Connolly or Roy at the trade deadline this year as I don't know that the Sabres have room on the roster for both of them. Either one could probably get a decent defenseman or be included in part of a bigger package.

 

I know people want to see Drury gone, but at his salary it will take some creativity on the part of Darcy to work a trade. I also don't think he has been nearly the disaster people on this board make him out to be.

 

If others are right and he is / will be a disaster, I don't see him moving because no other team will want a $3MM disaster. If I'm right and he is a good hockey player, why would you want to get rid of him as he does some things (like win faceoffs) that become really important at crunch time. (The Sabres went many years without a faceoff man after they let Peterson get away.) Either way, I don't see him moving.

[Larry Playfair]

If Drury is too costly to move, based on his play, then Darcy made a mistake.

[LabattBlue]

 

I don't agree that giving up Max, Kotalik or Connelly for a true top 4 defenseman would be well worth it. Would you trade any of those 3 for Zhitnik? or Rhett Warrener? or Lydman? Those 3 are all true top 4 NHL defensemen. While each is a good player that I would be glad to have on the Sabres, I wouldn't trade Max, Kotelik or Connelly for any of them as each is capable of scoring 40 goals in the new NHL.

 

Now, if you're talking about a true #1 defenseman, ie a guy who can be an intense team leader and intimidator as well as contribute a hard, accurate shot from the point, then I might think about it. But not just a top 4 guy.

I was wrong in stating that the Sabres need a top 4 defenseman. They really need a top 2 defenseman and if one could be had, the Sabres should do whatever they can to obtain them.(combination of current players, prospects and/or draft picks)

 

I think you are making a huge leap of faith to assume that Max, Kotalik or Connolly could hit the 40 goal mark. I know that the "new" NHL is wide open, but Max and Kotalik have hit 20+ plateau once each(21 goals) and Connolly has a career high of 14.

 

PS If I could get a defenseman of Zhitnik's caliber in return for any one of these guys, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[nfreeman]

I was wrong in stating that the Sabres need a top 4 defenseman. They really need a top 2 defenseman and if one could be had, the Sabres should do whatever they can to obtain them.(combination of current players, prospects and/or draft picks)

 

I think you are making a huge leap of faith to assume that Max, Kotalik or Connolly could hit the 40 goal mark. I know that the "new" NHL is wide open, but Max and Kotalik have hit 20+ plateau once each(21 goals) and Connolly has a career high of 14.

 

PS If I could get a defenseman of Zhitnik's caliber in return for any one of these guys, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

 

Now we are getting closer to agreeing. I don't think any of them will hit 40 this year (although I wouldn't be shocked if Kotelik did so), but I think Kotelik will get 30 and the other 2 will be above 25. If we didn't lose Miller for such a big chunk of the season, I'd predict 40 for Kotelik and 30 for Max.

 

Connelly really is the wild card. You certainly wouldn't be shocked if he didn't even reach 20, but I wouldn't be too surprised if he came in with 35 this year. He is so talented and it seems like his effort, conditioning and intensity are 100% better this year. I think Lindy thinks so too, which is why Connelly is getting lots of ice time, including on the penalty kill.

 

I completely agree that what the Sabres really need is a top 2 defenseman, but I'd really like a true #1. This team has been dying for 2 things: goaltending and leadership. I think we finally have a real goalie that the team can count on in Miller, but we still need leadership, esp. on D. I've been hoping that McKee would turn into that guy, but I don't think this is in his personality.

 

We need someone who plays with some fire (like Gaustadt or Mair) back there -- a punishing hitter who can skate so that the other team's forwards know they are going to pay a price on the forecheck. Our defensemen are all good skaters and are all pretty technically sound, but none of them ever really nails anyone except when McKee gets someone in his sweet spot along the left boards.

 

As far as Zhitnik -- I have to disagree. I'd like him back, but I wouldn't trade any of those 3 for him. While his conditioning and ability to log a ton of ice time are great, he adds zero value on offense (can't hit the net from the point to save his life) and, IMHO, is no better in the defensive zone than McKee, Kalinin or Lydman.

 

This might actually make an interesting poll question -- would the respondent trade Connelly, Max or Kotelik for Zhitnik? If I knew how to set up the poll I would do so.

[deluca67]

 

I don't agree that giving up Max, Kotalik or Connelly for a true top 4 defenseman would be well worth it. Would you trade any of those 3 for Zhitnik? or Rhett Warrener? or Lydman? Those 3 are all true top 4 NHL defensemen. While each is a good player that I would be glad to have on the Sabres, I wouldn't trade Max, Kotelik or Connelly for any of them as each is capable of scoring 40 goals in the new NHL.

 

Now, if you're talking about a true #1 defenseman, ie a guy who can be an intense team leader and intimidator as well as contribute a hard, accurate shot from the point, then I might think about it. But not just a top 4 guy.

Lydman? :lol:

 

Top Four? :lol:

 

Really? :lol:

 

Your jokeing right? :lol:

[Taro T]

Lydman? :lol:

 

Top Four? :lol:

 

Really? :lol:

 

Your jokeing right? :lol:

I won't try to speak for Nfreeman (don't know if he meant on Sabres or overall), but I'd have to say on this team he is one of the top 4 defensemen. Kalinin and McKee would be the Sabres best 2 (especially if healthy). I would then probably put Lydman third while acknowledging that Campbell has had some strong games in the last week or so. Zeppo would be next. And then I would keep Rory as 6th and move Henrik to the press box, but wouldn't be surprised to see it go the other way when McKee is healthy.

[DrunkenSabre]

offensively our D are great. its when their in their own end their not great.

 

Mckee is a good and stable defensman, now we need Kalinin, Lydman and numinen to be as good as they can in their own zone as well as in the oppositions. their all putting up loads of points tho.

[deluca67]

offensively our D are great. its when their in their own end their not great.

 

Mckee is a good and stable defensman, now we need Kalinin, Lydman and numinen to be as good as they can in their own zone as well as in the oppositions. their all putting up loads of points tho.

Great :huh: Maybe a tad overstated.

 

Kalinin is a #2.

McKee is a #4

Campbell? If his play continues as is? Is a good #5.

The rest you can toss away.

 

This team needs a #1 blueliner bad. Kalinin was supposed to take that

role but can't until healthy.

[DrunkenSabre]

Great :huh: Maybe a tad overstated.

 

Kalinin is a #2.

McKee is a #4

Campbell? If his play continues as is? Is a good #5.

The rest you can toss away.

 

This team needs a #1 blueliner bad. Kalinin was supposed to take that

role but can't until healthy.

ok, great is too much, but they are good offensively. Kalinin can be a no.1, but his got to start playing better defensively. his putting points up, but thats not enough.

 

Mckee's been stellar defensively, his the only one though. as i say the rest need improvement badly.

[nfreeman]

Lydman? :lol:

 

Top Four? :lol:

 

Really? :lol:

 

Your jokeing right? :lol:

 

 

Actually, not joking at all. Lydman is a legit top 4 NHL defenseman. We got him from Calgary, where he averaged over 20 min. per game in '03-'04 for a team that went to the FINALS. Here are his stats from that year: http://www.nhl.com/players/gbg/20032004/8465042.html

 

I think he's a very sound, solid player. He consistently gets more ice time than any of our other defensemen -- including last night, with 23 min. I don't think it's a coincidence that we were 0 and 4 in the 4 games he missed due to injury.

 

I'm not saying that I'm happy he's our #1 defenseman, because I think our biggest need by far is a true #1 defenseman. However, I also think McKee, Lydman, Tallinder, Kalinin and at this point Campbell and Numminen are legit top 4 NHL defensemen, although Tallinder, Kalinin and Numminen each makes enough mistakes that I wouldn't be unhappy with any of them in the 5-6 spots (last night was another game in which I didn't see Campbell make any big mistakes). I'm ready to make Fitzpatrick be the regular healthy scratch when McKee comes back.

 

Part of the problem is that these defensemen, other than McKee, are all so similar -- good skaters and technically pretty sound but very little in the way of hitting and leadership. But I think with the addition of a true #1 defenseman -- which if it ever happens will probably be in the offseason, since from what I read there should be a pretty active free agent market again -- I'd be pretty happy with our defense as a group.

[deluca67]

 

Actually, not joking at all. Lydman is a legit top 4 NHL defenseman. We got him from Calgary, where he averaged over 20 min. per game in '03-'04 for a team that went to the FINALS. Here are his stats from that year: http://www.nhl.com/players/gbg/20032004/8465042.html

 

I think he's a very sound, solid player. He consistently gets more ice time than any of our other defensemen -- including last night, with 23 min. I don't think it's a coincidence that we were 0 and 4 in the 4 games he missed due to injury.

 

I'm not saying that I'm happy he's our #1 defenseman, because I think our biggest need by far is a true #1 defenseman. However, I also think McKee, Lydman, Tallinder, Kalinin and at this point Campbell and Numminen are legit top 4 NHL defensemen, although Tallinder, Kalinin and Numminen each makes enough mistakes that I wouldn't be unhappy with any of them in the 5-6 spots (last night was another game in which I didn't see Campbell make any big mistakes). I'm ready to make Fitzpatrick be the regular healthy scratch when McKee comes back.

 

Part of the problem is that these defensemen, other than McKee, are all so similar -- good skaters and technically pretty sound but very little in the way of hitting and leadership. But I think with the addition of a true #1 defenseman -- which if it ever happens will probably be in the offseason, since from what I read there should be a pretty active free agent market again -- I'd be pretty happy with our defense as a group.

The Sabres are 20th out of 30 in shots allowed.

 

23rd in goals against.

 

18th on the Penalty Kill.

 

If you're happy with these stats and this defense. You're going to be really happy watching 8 other teams from the East in the playoffs.

 

This team is also 10th in Goals For and 5th in Power Play percentage. Just think were this team could be if Darcy would have gone out and gotten some quality players on the blueline.

[nfreeman]

The Sabres are 20th out of 30 in shots allowed.

 

23rd in goals against.

 

18th on the Penalty Kill.

 

If you're happy with these stats and this defense. You're going to be really happy watching 8 other teams from the East in the playoffs.

 

This team is also 10th in Goals For and 5th in Power Play percentage. Just think were this team could be if Darcy would have gone out and gotten some quality players on the blueline.

 

 

No question that we need another good defenseman. However, I think the stats you quote have to be considered in light of the fact that we lost our goaltender for almost half of the games played to date. The goalie is the most important penalty killer as well as the most important player in driving the GAA.

 

We've also lost 3 of our top 4 defensemen (Lydman, Kalinin and McKee) for a number of games.

 

No one wants us to sign a true #1 defenseman more than I do. But I also don't think it's fair to say that Tallinder and Lydman are not NHL defensemen. Lydman wouldn't have gotten as much ice time as he did for a Stanley Cup finalist if he weren't a good player. Tallinder makes more mistakes than he should but he also makes a lot of good plays. He is rangy and covers a lot of space -- Lindy's scheme is all about disrupting the passing and shooting lanes.

 

Numminen is probably coming to the end of his career but is still pretty valuable on the power play. Darcy probably overpaid for him, but we needed another live body who wouldn't be lost out there -- as we have seen already with the injuries. With Campbell stepping up and Kalinin hopefully doing the same, I am fine with Numminen as the 6th defenseman.

 

Yes, we needed to upgrade our defense. Darcy went out and got Lydman, whom I think is a good player, and Numminen, who he probably overpaid for. We're also seeing Campbell start to approach his potential -- if this happens, Campbell will be a very nice asset and a legit top 4 defensemen. Darcy would deserve credit for this too.

 

Bottom line is we need don't have the star defenseman that would, if coupled with very good to great goaltending, make us into contenders for top 2 in the East. I still think this team is well constructed to compete in the new NHL. If Miller is as good as I think he is and if our other young, homegrown players like Campbell, Kotalik, Kalinin, Max and Vanek play like they are capable of, then this will be a very entertaining team in the 3-6 group in the East -- which would be a huge improvement over the past few years.