Stoner Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Just a little social note. John Rigas and dozens of other World War II veterans from northern Pennsylvania were honored today in a ceremony at a college down here. For someone with his health and legal problems, he looked very good. He was smiling, shaking hands and moving around spryly. Say what you want about him, but at least his service to his country should be acknowledged, and was. Personally, seeing him brought back some very good memories of Sabres hockey.
Corp000085 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 well, hopefully he won't meet anyone in prison with "the tools to finish the job".
fushetti Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 well, hopefully he won't meet anyone in prison with "the tools to finish the job". heyooooo!
Stoner Posted July 15, 2006 Author Report Posted July 15, 2006 On a day an old, perhaps dying man was honored, with hundreds of others, for almost literally saving the Free World, such a comment is highly disgraceful. As our local representative said, these guys are responsible for our freedom to assemble here and speak English, not German. What is a man's legacy? The keynote speaker got right to the point. If any World War II veteran is ever asked what he did with his life, at the very least he can look the questioner in the eye and say, "I served my country." I was hoping this thread wouldn't turn into a "tool fest," but clearly the tools, like vultures to carrion, have been attracted.
Corp000085 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 I'm not disregarding Rigas' service to this country. All veterans of all wars should be honored for that. Unfortunately for rigas and countless other veterans, other legacies sometimes overshadow the veteran legacy.
Knightrider Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 While I tip my hat and say thank you to all WWII vets, Mr. Rigas does not make me recall good memories. From the death of the Knox brothers to the Patty being let go to Peca, to Hasek, to the near death of the Sabres, I shudder at the thought of him as the Sabres owner...
Duck Farcey Tucker Posted July 16, 2006 Report Posted July 16, 2006 On a day an old, perhaps dying man was honored, with hundreds of others, for almost literally saving the Free World, such a comment is highly disgraceful. As our local representative said, these guys are responsible for our freedom to assemble here and speak English, not German. What is a man's legacy? The keynote speaker got right to the point. If any World War II veteran is ever asked what he did with his life, at the very least he can look the questioner in the eye and say, "I served my country." I was hoping this thread wouldn't turn into a "tool fest," but clearly the tools, like vultures to carrion, have been attracted. Jeez, give it a rest you pompous ass...
Stoner Posted July 16, 2006 Author Report Posted July 16, 2006 While I tip my hat and say thank you to all WWII vets, Mr. Rigas does not make me recall good memories. From the death of the Knox brothers to the Patty being let go to Peca, to Hasek, to the near death of the Sabres, I shudder at the thought of him as the Sabres owner... Do you know something about the death of the Knoxes that the district attorney doesn't? :) You're blaming Rigas for LaFontaine being traded --- a move that turned out to be the correct one? And for "Peca" and "Hasek," whatever that means? Can you be more specific? Do you mean the fact they played hardball with Peca, according to some forcing Hasek to demand a trade? (A really good urban hockey myth BTW.) I prefer to think of Rigas as the guy who made the huge commitment to keep Hasek in Buffalo for a long time. (Where the money to do it came from is another question.) When I think of the years John Rigas had partial or full control of the team, I think of a new building, Ted Nolan, the white buffalo, Dominik Hasek, Mike Peca, Derek Plante, Lindy Ruff, a conference final run in 98, a Stanley Cup final run in 99, the best defense in the league in 2001 and on and on and on, the greatest era of Sabres hockey.
Orange Seats Posted July 16, 2006 Report Posted July 16, 2006 ... the greatest era of Sabres hockey. Yep and it almost cost us the team and did leave the city with a BIG BIG financial and emotional black-eye from which it is just starting to recover. But apparently that only deserves passing parenthetical mention to you: "(Where the money to do it came from is another question.)"
Stoner Posted July 16, 2006 Author Report Posted July 16, 2006 Would you prefer that we didn't have the greatest era in Sabres hockey? I honestly don't care where the money came from -- it is indeed parenthetical in my mind. Rigas turned out to be a crook and got convicted, but it doesn't change a thing that happened on the ice over those wonderful years. Someone else bought the team and now we're embarking on another great era. If Tom Golisano turns out to be a crook and gets convicted, it won't change what happened last season, will it? I guess I don't understand the reference to the financial "black eye" that Rigas gave the city of Buffalo. Are you talking about the loss of the proposed Adelphia jobs?
X. Benedict Posted July 16, 2006 Report Posted July 16, 2006 On a day an old, perhaps dying man was honored, with hundreds of others, for almost literally saving the Free World, such a comment is highly disgraceful. As our local representative said, these guys are responsible for our freedom to assemble here and speak English, not German. What is a man's legacy? The keynote speaker got right to the point. If any World War II veteran is ever asked what he did with his life, at the very least he can look the questioner in the eye and say, "I served my country." I was hoping this thread wouldn't turn into a "tool fest," but clearly the tools, like vultures to carrion, have been attracted. I am never sure when you are joking. Surely Riga's lifelong legacy is a mixed one. I am close enough to Coudy to have heard just about every opinion about the man from lauds to damnations. So is he a convicted felon and war hero, or a war hero and convicted felon? Both perhaps. A man that saved and ruined lives.
jad1 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 Would you prefer that we didn't have the greatest era in Sabres hockey? I honestly don't care where the money came from -- it is indeed parenthetical in my mind. Rigas turned out to be a crook and got convicted, but it doesn't change a thing that happened on the ice over those wonderful years. Someone else bought the team and now we're embarking on another great era. If Tom Golisano turns out to be a crook and gets convicted, it won't change what happened last season, will it? I guess I don't understand the reference to the financial "black eye" that Rigas gave the city of Buffalo. Are you talking about the loss of the proposed Adelphia jobs? You could also argue that due to his poor business plan and shading dealings, the Rigases brought, without a doubt, the darkest days of the franchise. It's hard to sit here and heap praise on the guy who drove the franchise into bankruptcy, and needed the league to bail the team out. I appreciate the successful years, but I'd rather that the franchise doesn't sell its soul to achieve them.
Stoner Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Posted July 17, 2006 People should remember that the Sabres were in big trouble financially before John Rigas arrived on the scene. Dark days? I guess. The team was still pretty competitive in 02-03 and 03-04, as competitive as some high spending big market teams, and I'm probably the only one who had no worries about the team being moved. It was more a bump in the road than anything else.
Don Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 well, hopefully he won't meet anyone in prison with "the tools to finish the job". Classic.
Stoner Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Posted July 17, 2006 Classic indeed. I think I've heard that line a couple hundred times. It never gets old though.
Corp000085 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 Classic indeed. I think I've heard that line a couple hundred times. It never gets old though. it is classic and overused, but not as overused as an "OJ slashes his way through the defense" joke.
LabattBlue Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 Do you know something about the death of the Knoxes that the district attorney doesn't? :) You're blaming Rigas for LaFontaine being traded --- a move that turned out to be the correct one? And for "Peca" and "Hasek," whatever that means? Can you be more specific? Do you mean the fact they played hardball with Peca, according to some forcing Hasek to demand a trade? (A really good urban hockey myth BTW.) I prefer to think of Rigas as the guy who made the huge commitment to keep Hasek in Buffalo for a long time. (Where the money to do it came from is another question.) When I think of the years John Rigas had partial or full control of the team, I think of a new building, Ted Nolan, the white buffalo, Dominik Hasek, Mike Peca, Derek Plante, Lindy Ruff, a conference final run in 98, a Stanley Cup final run in 99, the best defense in the league in 2001 and on and on and on, the greatest era of Sabres hockey. Hands down, the greatest era in Sabres hockey by far was the first 7 or 8 years of this franchise. PS Acknowledge him for his service to the country, but the guy got caught with his hand in the cookie jar of one of the biggest corporate scandals in recent time. The only reason that he will probably not do jail time is because of his age and health. He is a corporate crook who deserves the criticism he gets.
Stoner Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Posted July 17, 2006 I'll still go with 1996 to 2001 vs. 1970-75 (or 78). While the early 70s were fun because everything was new, there was not much success on the ice, individual accomplishments aside. After 75, in fact, it was a succession of playoff disappointments matched only by the decade before May Day. And 96-01 kind of felt like an expansion era as well, except with more winning -- rebuilding team; new coaches; new building; new logo; new owner; etc. While Rigas does deserve everything he is getting, I tend to give him credit for the commitment he made to the Sabres. I do believe he wanted to bring a Cup to Buffalo. Does Golisano share the same commitment? We're in the process of finding out. But you wonder where Golisano was in the early to mid 90s when the Sabres were desperate for investment in the team. I guess he hadn't run for governor yet. The cookie jar? The man founded the company from scratch. Who could begrudge him an oatmeal raising cookie or two or three? Oh yeah, the feds, who needed a corporate scandal bust and found a little white haired chap from politically disconnected rural Pennsylvania to do the perp walk for the cameras. Viva Rigas!
SCSabresFan! Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 I'll still go with 1996 to 2001 vs. 1970-75 (or 78). While the early 70s were fun because everything was new, there was not much success on the ice, individual accomplishments aside. After 75, in fact, it was a succession of playoff disappointments matched only by the decade before May Day. And 96-01 kind of felt like an expansion era as well, except with more winning -- rebuilding team; new coaches; new building; new logo; new owner; etc. While Rigas does deserve everything he is getting, I tend to give him credit for the commitment he made to the Sabres. I do believe he wanted to bring a Cup to Buffalo. Does Golisano share the same commitment? We're in the process of finding out. But you wonder where Golisano was in the early to mid 90s when the Sabres were desperate for investment in the team. I guess he hadn't run for governor yet. The cookie jar? The man founded the company from scratch. Who could begrudge him an oatmeal raising cookie or two or three? Oh yeah, the feds, who needed a corporate scandal bust and found a little white haired chap from politically disconnected rural Pennsylvania to do the perp walk for the cameras. Viva Rigas! Are you joking? Yes - great he served his country, but lets not forget the people who lost jobs and money because of his corrupt antics. I am still waiting to get money back from my thousands of dollars of Adelphia stock I lost. Not to mention family members in Coudersport who lost jobs. This isn't some poor little guy doing a perp walk... As the government complaint alleges, the defendant intentionally submitted false information to lenders and made false statements to the public in order to maintain their failing company's stock price. Adelphia had grown enormous through an aggressive acquisition strategy during the late 1990s. Beginning in 1999 the complaint alleges that the defendants caused the company to borrow more than $2.28 billion that it concealed from the public by intentionally omitting it from its required SEC filings. The complaint also alleges that the defendants fraudulently reported the company's operating results by creating millions of dollars in fake management fees, entering into sham transactions with other companies and outright falsifying the numbers of cable television and Internet subscribers. The complaint also alleges that the defendants repeatedly lied to the banks that were lending money to the company by submitting false information about Adelphia's financial performance. Now, in addition to this massive securities fraud and bank fraud scheme, the complain alleges that the defendants victimized Adelphia shareholders through a wide variety of, quite frankly, brazen thefts. PA - did you lose any money in the Rigas scam?
Stoner Posted July 17, 2006 Author Report Posted July 17, 2006 Let's not forget the thousands of people he employed and families he supported for decades and the people who are still employed today because of the company that he built. See... these stories are always more complicated than people want to make them out to be. Do you think he and his sons plotted to destroy their own company? Mistakes were made and crimes committed, but why it all happened it probably more shades of gray than black and white. No, I didn't lose any money, although the Adelphia scandal had a ripple effect on a region I call home, so it did affect me. I'm sorry you lost money. It doesn't change the fact that he invested in the Sabres, perhaps saving the team before Golisano did, kept Dominik Hasek in Buffalo and won a ton of games and playoff series. That's all I really care about as a Sabre fan, and yes, I guess I'm a creep for saying that.
BuffalOhio Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 The moment Adelphia went public, it ceased to be his company. Everything he did after that point was subject to Federal scrutiny, and he lost that fight. It wasn't his money to play with.
LabattBlue Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 But he was a great veteran!!! I guess there are no veterans to honor other than ones who decided to put an exclamation point on their life by embezzling millions of dollars from the company they ran into bankruptcy. What a great role model. His children should be proud of him. Oops...I forgot. His children are crooks too!
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 We truly are gluttons for punishment ... man do we need hockey season ... talk about time wasted on old wounds ... in the past week we have re-opened the Flutie-Johnson debate (no one more vocal than me, I am as guilty of it as anyone) and now we are re-living the Adelphia scandal ... Any other fun Buffalo memories we can talk about? Nicole Simpson getting murdered? Bethlehem Steel leaving? McKinley getting shot? I think they burned the city down in the War of 1812... ;)
SCSabresFan! Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 The moment Adelphia went public, it ceased to be his company. Everything he did after that point was subject to Federal scrutiny, and he lost that fight. It wasn't his money to play with. Excellent point...
LabattBlue Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 We truly are gluttons for punishment ... man do we need hockey season ... talk about time wasted on old wounds ... in the past week we have re-opened the Flutie-Johnson debate (no one more vocal than me, I am as guilty of it as anyone) and now we are re-living the Adelphia scandal ... Any other fun Buffalo memories we can talk about? Nicole Simpson getting murdered? Bethlehem Steel leaving? McKinley getting shot? I think they burned the city down in the War of 1812... ;) Plenty of things to rehash before the season starts... -No new Peace bridge...still :o -WNY population continues to shrink! ;) -City and county under control board rule. :angry: -NFTA trying to get in the waterfront development business? That's right folks...our agency responsible for buses and a subway that goes nowhere wants to be a waterfront developer! :blink: That's just for starters. Maybe we can have a non-hockey topic of the day. B-)
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