SHAAAUGHT!!! Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Maxim Afinigonov = 3 round pick Daniel Briere = 3 round pick Brian Cambell = 6 round pick Gaustad = 7th round pick Kotalik = 6th round pick Mair = 4th round Ryan Miller = 5th round pick Paestch = 7th round Fatty V = 5th round And my favorite - Andrew Peters was drafted in the 2nd round, 34th overall. Can everyone now stop talking about how only getting a 4th round pick was like getting nothing for a guy that never stepped up to the plate? I would rather have players like Gaustad (7th round ) and Mair (4th round) on my team anyday over Pyatt.
bob_sauve28 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Maxim Afinigonov = 3 round pick Daniel Briere = 3 round pick Brian Cambell = 6 round pick Gaustad = 7th round pick Kotalik = 6th round pick Mair = 4th round Ryan Miller = 5th round pick Paestch = 7th round Fatty V = 5th round And my favorite - Andrew Peters was drafted in the 2nd round, 34th overall. Can everyone now stop talking about how only getting a 4th round pick was like getting nothing for a guy that never stepped up to the plate? I would rather have players like Gaustad (7th round ) and Mair (4th round) on my team anyday over Pyatt. Ya, all this talk about how great Pyatt was is really funny. The guy could barely crack the line up. We have too many young players coming up through the stystem to let Pyatt get in the way. And take up a million leaves of cabbage too boot! Who in the hell is Fatty V?
SHAAAUGHT!!! Posted July 15, 2006 Author Report Posted July 15, 2006 Ya, all this talk about how great Pyatt was is really funny. The guy could barely crack the line up. We have too many young players coming up through the stystem to let Pyatt get in the way. And take up a million leaves of cabbage too boot! Who in the hell is Fatty V? Thomas Vanek. If he could get rid of all that baby fat he could be twice as fast on the ice, or so the theory goes.....
bob_sauve28 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Thomas Vanek. If he could get rid of all that baby fat he could be twice as fast on the ice, or so the theory goes..... Wasn't Vanek a first round pick?
BuffalOhio Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Wasn't Vanek a first round pick? Yeah - First Round, Fifth Overall.
shrader Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 So why couldn't this have gone in the Pyatt traded thread? Oh, and with that logic, what do we say about Pyatt being a 1st round pick?
bob_sauve28 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Oh, and with that logic, what do we say about Pyatt being a 1st round pick? Chalk it up to 'sh!t happens'? :P
slapshot1619 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Hey the Islanders made the pick not us... lol :P
LALALALALALAFONTAINE Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Maxim Afinigonov = 3 round pick Daniel Briere = 3 round pick Brian Cambell = 6 round pick Gaustad = 7th round pick Kotalik = 6th round pick Mair = 4th round Ryan Miller = 5th round pick Paestch = 7th round Fatty V = 5th round And my favorite - Andrew Peters was drafted in the 2nd round, 34th overall. Can everyone now stop talking about how only getting a 4th round pick was like getting nothing for a guy that never stepped up to the plate? I would rather have players like Gaustad (7th round ) and Mair (4th round) on my team anyday over Pyatt. Briere was a 1st round pick. Vanek was 1st round pick. Paetsch hasn't played 5 games in the NHL. If a player's first five games indicated what they'd do over their career, Daren Puppa would have been better than Hasek. The only two things more valuable about Gaustad than Pyatt is his faceoff ability and his ability to fight. Pyatt is better defensively and better along the boards. The probabilities of a 4th rounder panning out is far less than a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder. Pyatt will develop, and unfortunately it is going to be in Vancouver. Just because we won Perreault and stole the Peca trade doesn't mean we have to make it up.
rickshaw Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Pyatt will get eaten alive in Vancouver if he doesn't perform. He may very well turn into something special, but if he can't develop under a coach of the year, then maybe he never will. If he turns into a star it doesn't mean anything. Many players turn into something else because of the new situation and players around them, etc. He's gone. The team saved over a million bucks and a younger guy gets to step in. No harm done.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Briere was a 1st round pick. Vanek was 1st round pick. Paetsch hasn't played 5 games in the NHL. If a player's first five games indicated what they'd do over their career, Daren Puppa would have been better than Hasek. The only two things more valuable about Gaustad than Pyatt is his faceoff ability and his ability to fight. Pyatt is better defensively and better along the boards. The probabilities of a 4th rounder panning out is far less than a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder. Pyatt will develop, and unfortunately it is going to be in Vancouver. Just because we won Perreault and stole the Peca trade doesn't mean we have to make it up. Let me ask you this, LALALALALALAFONTAINE ... obviously you like Pyatt ... but put on your GM hat for another team ... if you were GM of any other team in the league, and Regier called you and said Pyatt was on the table ... how high would you be willing to go to get him? Can you honestly say you would have offered more for a guy who has never scored more than 28 points in the league? He's nothing but potential, and the Sabres can't afford to pay that much for unfulfilled potential. And no matter how much you like him, no other GM will give more than a so-so draft pick for it either.
LALALALALALAFONTAINE Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Hey the Islanders made the pick not us... lol :P The Islanders would have won a Stanley Cup if they kept their draft picks around. Let's consider their first round draft picks going back from 2000: 2000 1 G Rick DiPietro 5 L Raffi Torres 1999 5 C Tim Connolly 8 L Taylor Pyatt 10 D Branislav Mezei 28 D Kristian Kudroc 1998 9 L Michael Rupp 1997 4 G Roberto Luongo 5 D Eric Brewer 1996 3 R J.P. Dumont 1995 2 D Wade Redden 1994 9 Brett Lindros 1993 23 L Todd Bertuzzi 1992 5 D Darius Kasparaitis The Isles and Milbury deserve derision, and they deserve a lot of derision for dealing players like Pyatt, Connolly, Bertuzzi, Luongo before they fully developed. See any similarities?
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 The Isles and Milbury deserve derision, and they deserve a lot of derision for dealing players like Pyatt, Connolly, Bertuzzi, Luongo before they fully developed. See any similarities? No, I really don't see any similarities between Bertuzzi and Luongo and Taylor Pyatt. I can't believe you just put them in the same sentence.
LALALALALALAFONTAINE Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Pyatt will get eaten alive in Vancouver if he doesn't perform. He may very well turn into something special, but if he can't develop under a coach of the year, then maybe he never will. If he turns into a star it doesn't mean anything. Many players turn into something else because of the new situation and players around them, etc. He's gone. The team saved over a million bucks and a younger guy gets to step in. No harm done. How did we save over a million dollars? Did the player replacing Pyatt agree to play for free? Salary dumps aren't made with players that are well below the average NHL salary. Even if replaced by someone at the minimum, we'll save a couple of hundred thousand. Meanwhile, the prospect of paying $2.1M for a backup goaltender is very real. Pyatt has progressed very nicely. He was one of our better forwards in the last two rounds of the playoffs. He was better than Afinogenov. He was better than Kotalik. He was better than Gaustad, Mair, Vanek or Hecht. That's why you saw Pyatt playing with Briere later in the playoffs. Perhaps you are younger and don't remember the Sabres of the early 1980s that did well in the regular season and sucked in the playoffs. We have evidence that Pyatt shows up in the playoffs, like a John Tonelli. If he does turn into a star, it does mean something. It means we will be lacking that player. You don't think Chicago regrets not keeping Hasek? Think they miss Dumont? Think the Isles miss Luongo or Bertuzzi? Obviously, they do. Let me ask you this, LALALALALALAFONTAINE ... obviously you like Pyatt ... but put on your GM hat for another team ... if you were GM of any other team in the league, and Regier called you and said Pyatt was on the table ... how high would you be willing to go to get him? Can you honestly say you would have offered more for a guy who has never scored more than 28 points in the league? He's nothing but potential, and the Sabres can't afford to pay that much for unfulfilled potential. And no matter how much you like him, no other GM will give more than a so-so draft pick for it either. You could make the argument that Lundmark was fair benchmark value, but that begs the question of us and Phoenix....why make the trade? And unlike Lundmark, Pyatt had a very nice playoff before he was dealt. Lundmark scored 10 pts in 12 games with the Flames. If he gets time with Iginla (doubtful now with Tanguay), I think he could have kept that up. Putting on my GM hat, I would have been looking for trades like this when we were on the verge of the playoffs. Now, what do we need, as a Stanley Cup? At this time of the year, we need to concentrate our talent, which involves trading 2 or 3 players and getting one better one in return. Or, we can do trades which give us cheaper players. We did neither here. I am not opposed to dealing Pyatt per se. I am opposed to getting nothing for him. And at the deadline, we need to add to our depth - something that Regier also missed the boat on. No, I really don't see any similarities between Bertuzzi and Luongo and Taylor Pyatt. I can't believe you just put them in the same sentence. Aside from the fact that they are Isles first rounders who were dealt, they are players who are huge and dealt from impatience, I can't either. Pyatt works much harder and players much better defense and skates much better than Bertuzzi.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 If he does turn into a star, it does mean something. It means we will be lacking that player. You don't think Chicago regrets not keeping Hasek? Think they miss Dumont? Think the Isles miss Luongo or Bertuzzi? Obviously, they do. Pyatt has done NOTHING to indicate that he will develop into anything close to Bertuzzi or a player on the level of Lungo, let alone Hasek. The guy played like ge gave a crap for once for a couple weeks in the playoffs and all of a sudden you are comparing trading him to Chicago dealing the greatest goalie of all time?!?! He didn't even score a goal in the playoffs!!! Look, obviously you like Pyatt and wish the Sabres could have kept him. That's fine, but just say that and leave it at that. Don't try to sell him as something he is not. You have no fact to support your contention that is is going to be a star other than pointing to what other guys like Bertuzzi have done. Pyatt's own track record is a MUCH better indicator of future performance. For every Bertuzzi or Hasek who gets traded for draft picks and turns into something, there are 15 guys you never heard of who got traded and faded away. Ever hear of Pat Falloon? Alexangre Daigle? Not everyone blossoms like Bertuzzi, sometimes they just keep sucking. Again, he may break out but for that money the Sabres could not wait any more. And as I asked above, if you were another GM and Regier offered him, would you really have given any more in return?
deluca67 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 How did we save over a million dollars? Did the player replacing Pyatt agree to play for free? Salary dumps aren't made with players that are well below the average NHL salary. Even if replaced by someone at the minimum, we'll save a couple of hundred thousand. Meanwhile, the prospect of paying $2.1M for a backup goaltender is very real. Pyatt has progressed very nicely. He was one of our better forwards in the last two rounds of the playoffs. He was better than Afinogenov. He was better than Kotalik. He was better than Gaustad, Mair, Vanek or Hecht. That's why you saw Pyatt playing with Briere later in the playoffs. Perhaps you are younger and don't remember the Sabres of the early 1980s that did well in the regular season and sucked in the playoffs. We have evidence that Pyatt shows up in the playoffs, like a John Tonelli. If he does turn into a star, it does mean something. It means we will be lacking that player. You don't think Chicago regrets not keeping Hasek? Think they miss Dumont? Think the Isles miss Luongo or Bertuzzi? Obviously, they do. You could make the argument that Lundmark was fair benchmark value, but that begs the question of us and Phoenix....why make the trade? And unlike Lundmark, Pyatt had a very nice playoff before he was dealt. Lundmark scored 10 pts in 12 games with the Flames. If he gets time with Iginla (doubtful now with Tanguay), I think he could have kept that up. Putting on my GM hat, I would have been looking for trades like this when we were on the verge of the playoffs. Now, what do we need, as a Stanley Cup? At this time of the year, we need to concentrate our talent, which involves trading 2 or 3 players and getting one better one in return. Or, we can do trades which give us cheaper players. We did neither here. I am not opposed to dealing Pyatt per se. I am opposed to getting nothing for him. And at the deadline, we need to add to our depth - something that Regier also missed the boat on. Aside from the fact that they are Isles first rounders who were dealt, they are players who are huge and dealt from impatience, I can't either. Pyatt works much harder and players much better defense and skates much better than Bertuzzi. The player replacing Pyatt is already on the roster. They may not "save" a million dollars but it will be a million dollars better spent. Pyatt works harder? One night a week maybe. I think former Sabres #1 pick Steve Patrick will reach his full potential before Pyatt does. ;)
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 You could make the argument that Lundmark was fair benchmark value, but that begs the question of us and Phoenix....why make the trade? And unlike Lundmark, Pyatt had a very nice playoff before he was dealt. Lundmark scored 10 pts in 12 games with the Flames. If he gets time with Iginla (doubtful now with Tanguay), I think he could have kept that up. Putting on my GM hat, I would have been looking for trades like this when we were on the verge of the playoffs. I asked you to be GM of the OTHER team, not what you would have asked for if you were regier ... would you have offered a 1st round pick for Pyatt based on his blessed potential? Aside from the fact that they are Isles first rounders who were dealt, they are players who are huge and dealt from impatience, I can't either. Pyatt works much harder and players much better defense and skates much better than Bertuzzi. So actually, you are claiming Pyatt is BETTER than Bertuzzi?!?!? IAnd OK they were drafted by the islanders ... geez so were Mike Bossy and Brian Trottier ... Pyatt MUST be great too! Your arguments are getting worse.
Taro T Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Briere was a 1st round pick. Vanek was 1st round pick. Paetsch hasn't played 5 games in the NHL. If a player's first five games indicated what they'd do over their career, Daren Puppa would have been better than Hasek. The only two things more valuable about Gaustad than Pyatt is his faceoff ability and his ability to fight. Pyatt is better defensively and better along the boards. The probabilities of a 4th rounder panning out is far less than a 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder. Pyatt will develop, and unfortunately it is going to be in Vancouver. Just because we won Perreault and stole the Peca trade doesn't mean we have to make it up. You are correct that Briere was a 1st rounder (24th in '96), in Shaaaaauuught's defense, the Sabres Media Guide has it wrong. I think if Pyatt were at a lower $ value the Sabres would have given him 1 more year to try to pan out. Unfortunately, the Isles overpaid for him initially and the Sabres inherited his base salary and couldn't do too much about that (QO's in the old system had to be for raises for pretty much all players). The Sabres are (to a degree) in a tough spot at forward, they have a problem that almost any other team in the league would love to have - too many NHL quality forwards. We knew at least 1 or 2 of them would not be back next year, and we still may see 1 more end up in a package with Marty. I think the Sabres believe that Taylor could still become a legitimate 2nd line power forward. I just don't believe that they thought it would happen in Buffalo. It oftentimes takes a change of scenery for power forwards to truly come into their own. He may blossom for the Canucks. Even if he does, it doesn't mean that it would have happened in Buffalo. (But if he does, the Darcy bashers will be in full force, and I don't know that the criticism on that particular trade would be justified.) I personally would have expected Taylor to be worth a 3rd rounder from someone, I don't see any way that another GM would give more than that at this time. So a 4th rounder isn't totally out of reason. He seems like a good kid, I wish him well out west. As for Pyatt being better than Gaustad in the corners and Gaustad being better at faceoffs, neither is terribly surprising and I doubt that those skill sets factored into the decision to move Taylor. If Gaustad is in fact a better fighter, that could have been a factor as the team would like to have someone who doesn't have a history of concussions that can mix it up if necessary in the 50+ games that Andrew is in the buffet line. I still think $'s was the driving force in this decision.
jad1 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 Regier qualified Pyatt, so that means he's getting a raise, right? What the hell did Pyatt do this year to deserve a raise? Sign autographs in the press box while he was a healthy scratch? The guy was outperformed by rookies last year. Honestly, you have to give Regier credit for getting something for this slacker, rather than just cutting his ass, because that's what he deserved. When the Sabres were the snowplow of the league they had no choice but to wait for these guys to develop. But the attitude and and effort is much improved in the guys coming up from Rochester these days. These guys want to play every night. After watching Roy, Pominville, and Gaustad play this year, I've got no stomach left for slow-learners like Pyatt. Hell of a trade Darcy, a 4th round pick for Chris Gratton Jr. I'll take that in a heartbeat.
rickshaw Posted July 16, 2006 Report Posted July 16, 2006 Perhaps you are younger and don't remember the Sabres of the early 1980s that did well in the regular season and sucked in the playoffs. We have evidence that Pyatt shows up in the playoffs, like a John Tonelli. If he does turn into a star, it does mean something. It means we will be lacking that player Perhaps I am not younger. Thanks though. I remember more about hockey than you've had hot meals my friend. You say IF he turns into a star. I can tell you this. He won't. Pyatt, whom I like, could not crack the lineup when healthy on a regular basis. This tells me that others are better than you. So they don't save the million dollars. Sorry for the wording. They can now spend it more wisely. How's that? The guy had his chances. He may do very well in Vancity. But if he floats around like he did in Buffalo on many nights, he'll be parked upstairs their too. Van fans don't put up with much crap either. Trades happen. Some work out, some don't. But you seem to want to compare this one to deals made for Bertuzzi and other guys who have broken out. Bertuzzi had one really good year. One! And that was playing with Naslund who was at the top of his game at the time. Bert has been average since and he certainly has more ability than Pyatt does. It's over. He's gone. Get over it! And remember, IF is a big word.
Done Posted July 16, 2006 Report Posted July 16, 2006 I don't blame taking a 4th for him, but I stick to my guns saying he was a top 6 foreward in the Carolina series for us. I understand people saying that he's had plenty of time to show himself....but the kid just turned 24? He is a big boy, and 23-26 is the time in life where your physical strength really develops. Skill players can contribute early because they rely on speed and hand-eye co-ordination. A guy like Pyatt can become a big-time grinder in this league once he is filled out. They couldn't move him along the boards in the playoffs. Once he realizes this, he will become a PP specialist as well and probably pop in 10-20 garbage goals a year just because of his size.
X. Benedict Posted July 16, 2006 Report Posted July 16, 2006 I don't blame taking a 4th for him, but I stick to my guns saying he was a top 6 foreward in the Carolina series for us. I understand people saying that he's had plenty of time to show himself....but the kid just turned 24? He is a big boy, and 23-26 is the time in life where your physical strength really develops. Skill players can contribute early because they rely on speed and hand-eye co-ordination. A guy like Pyatt can become a big-time grinder in this league once he is filled out. They couldn't move him along the boards in the playoffs. Once he realizes this, he will become a PP specialist as well and probably pop in 10-20 garbage goals a year just because of his size. The playoffs for Pyatt were indeed eye-opening. Seeing him play some physical hockey and using the huge body that nature gave him was nothing more than what everybody always wanted from the guy. The downside of Pyatt in the past years were considerable. Occaisionally you could watch him skate an entire shift, and if not for the uniform, you wouldn't know what team he was on. What was that? Perhaps a number of factors - one being that he never had regular line-mates. I enjoyed his play in the playoffs - and his periodic flashes of potential, but the reality is I don't think he was going to develop in Buffalo. This move is the best for him, and without his work in the Playoffs, Pyatt was probably not worth a 6th round pick with his salary. Aslo keep in mind that even in the playoffs, Pyatt was only getting between 7-12 minutes on 8-12 shifts. His future is not here. I hope he helps Vancouver.
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