shrader Posted July 14, 2006 Report Posted July 14, 2006 According to TSN, Shawn Horcoff just signed a 3 year deal worth $3.6 million a year. Horcoff put up 0.92 points per game last year, while Briere scored at a 1.21 points per game pace. I realize that the injury is probably an issue in his contract talks, but looking at this deal from another small market, low spending team, Briere should be looking for at least $4 million a year. This Horcoff deal would be the absolute minimum money that Briere would even consider. A 3 year deal for Briere would be nice, but can they get it done?
SHAAAUGHT!!! Posted July 14, 2006 Report Posted July 14, 2006 According to TSN, Shawn Horcoff just signed a 3 year deal worth $3.6 million a year. Horcoff put up 0.92 points per game last year, while Briere scored at a 1.21 points per game pace. I realize that the injury is probably an issue in his contract talks, but looking at this deal from another small market, low spending team, Briere should be looking for at least $4 million a year. This Horcoff deal would be the absolute minimum money that Briere would even consider. A 3 year deal for Briere would be nice, but can they get it done? You would think that Briere would want to work something out long-term with the team after his comments about hoping that mgmt does everything possible to keep the team intact. In order to do this there are going to have to be sacrificies. Is it going to be losing a player or two? Is Briere willing to accept a long-term contract if it means less money down the road? Briere has mentioned that he liked the fact that the Sabres looked to him for leadership and to be a top 2 center on the team, something Phoenix didn't do. Plus he is a Montreal guy and playing in Buffalo isn't too far from home.
LabattBlue Posted July 14, 2006 Report Posted July 14, 2006 I think Briere is going to cost the Sabres 3.75-4 mil per year for a 3 year deal. That would be the cost before this season starts.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 14, 2006 Report Posted July 14, 2006 You would think that Briere would want to work something out long-term with the team after his comments about hoping that mgmt does everything possible to keep the team intact. In order to do this there are going to have to be sacrificies. Is it going to be losing a player or two? Is Briere willing to accept a long-term contract if it means less money down the road? Briere has mentioned that he liked the fact that the Sabres looked to him for leadership and to be a top 2 center on the team, something Phoenix didn't do. Plus he is a Montreal guy and playing in Buffalo isn't too far from home. That would make perfect sense, except it is never a 2-way street with the players ... they want the commitment to keep the team together, but what that means is "We want to keep the team together as long as we all get what we are worth." It is a rare player who will meet the club halfway or even 3/4 of the way. Please don't think I am attacking Briere or anyone else. These guys only play the game for a short time (compared to other careers) and usually have one big free agent payday in them. They are perfectly within their rights to do what they can to make what they can, especially when we are talking about the average hockey players who might make $10-15 million over their whole career ... (NBA players bitching about wanting $20 million PER YEAR when being offered a $16 milllion/year GUARANTEED contract I have no sympathy for ...). But it is also within the team's rights to say "We can't afford to pay all you guys top dollar. You need to help us keep it together." But I guarantee if we lose Briere or anyone else management will be blamed 100% for not paying up. If Regier spoke at the final team meeting and said "Guys, great season, we were so close, we have everything in we need in this room to win it all next year and maybe even beyond ... but we can't pay you all market value ... how about you all get raises but take 15% under market value and we go win a stanley cup or two!?! Lemme hear ya!" Nothing but crickets would be heard.
LabattBlue Posted July 14, 2006 Report Posted July 14, 2006 But I guarantee if we lose Briere or anyone else management will be blamed 100% for not paying up. Not by me. I fully expect that from the group of Tallinder, Lydman, Drury, Briere, Max, Dumont & Kotalik, at least three of them will nor be with the Sabres in 07-08.
SHAAAUGHT!!! Posted July 14, 2006 Report Posted July 14, 2006 That would make perfect sense, except it is never a 2-way street with the players ... they want the commitment to keep the team together, but what that means is "We want to keep the team together as long as we all get what we are worth." It is a rare player who will meet the club halfway or even 3/4 of the way. Please don't think I am attacking Briere or anyone else. These guys only play the game for a short time (compared to other careers) and usually have one big free agent payday in them. They are perfectly within their rights to do what they can to make what they can, especially when we are talking about the average hockey players who might make $10-15 million over their whole career ... (NBA players bitching about wanting $20 million PER YEAR when being offered a $16 milllion/year GUARANTEED contract I have no sympathy for ...). But it is also within the team's rights to say "We can't afford to pay all you guys top dollar. You need to help us keep it together." But I guarantee if we lose Briere or anyone else management will be blamed 100% for not paying up. If Regier spoke at the final team meeting and said "Guys, great season, we were so close, we have everything in we need in this room to win it all next year and maybe even beyond ... but we can't pay you all market value ... how about you all get raises but take 15% under market value and we go win a stanley cup or two!?! Lemme hear ya!" Nothing but crickets would be heard. I completely agree. I can't really blame the players for trying to make a living. The guys you see making the paycheck sacrifice are the ones with only a couple playing years left and looking to get there name on the cup (and paul kariya)
nfreeman Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 I don't think Briere will sign a 3-year deal for much less than $5 million per year. If he has a 90-point year this year someone will give him in the neighborhood of $6 million per year next year as a UFA. He knows this and is going to have a huge year this year to try to get to that payoff. It doesn't make him a bad guy -- just human nature.
Corp000085 Posted July 15, 2006 Report Posted July 15, 2006 briere is a franchise player. Maybe the "salary dump" of guys like grier, pyatt, and mckee will facilitate the sabres locking briere up long term for a lot of $$. I've got absolutely zero problem overpaying to keep briere.
deluca67 Posted July 16, 2006 Report Posted July 16, 2006 I don't think Briere will sign a 3-year deal for much less than $5 million per year. If he has a 90-point year this year someone will give him in the neighborhood of $6 million per year next year as a UFA. He knows this and is going to have a huge year this year to try to get to that payoff. It doesn't make him a bad guy -- just human nature. Then let him go. He missed almost half the season and the Sabres were able to win without him. Ths Sabres can't pay players $5 million. You pay Briere $5 then Drury, who is a better player, will want $6. It never ends. If Briere is such a great player then that's great. The Sabres should be able to get a lot in return when they trade him.
matter2003 Posted July 16, 2006 Report Posted July 16, 2006 I think Horcoff's signing was closer to setting the bar for Afinigenov, as they had very similar point totals(Horcoff 73, Afinigenov 71)... Briere, will surely command more than either one of them as he is a 1.2 point a game player.... Matter2003
shrader Posted July 16, 2006 Author Report Posted July 16, 2006 I think Horcoff's signing was closer to setting the bar for Afinigenov, as they had very similar point totals(Horcoff 73, Afinigenov 71)... Briere, will surely command more than either one of them as he is a 1.2 point a game player.... Matter2003 Horcoff is a center and can actually play defense. I don't think he's the best comparison for Max.
deluca67 Posted July 16, 2006 Report Posted July 16, 2006 I think Horcoff's signing was closer to setting the bar for Afinigenov, as they had very similar point totals(Horcoff 73, Afinigenov 71)... Briere, will surely command more than either one of them as he is a 1.2 point a game player.... Matter2003 1.2 points a game? Where did you get that number? For his NHL career he is .699 points a game. Which is nice but far from being worth $4-5 million a season. Max is .550 Horcoff is .530
shrader Posted July 16, 2006 Author Report Posted July 16, 2006 1.2 points a game? Where did you get that number? For his NHL career he is .699 points a game. Which is nice but far from being worth $4-5 million a season. Max is .550 Horcoff is .530 As I posted at the start of this thread, Briere put up 1.21 points per game this season. Can he do it again? Can he stay healthy?
SHAAAUGHT!!! Posted July 16, 2006 Report Posted July 16, 2006 Then let him go. He missed almost half the season and the Sabres were able to win without him. Ths Sabres can't pay players $5 million. You pay Briere $5 then Drury, who is a better player, will want $6. It never ends. If Briere is such a great player then that's great. The Sabres should be able to get a lot in return when they trade him. I don't know if I would say Drury is a better player than Briere, I think they are equal but different. As far as I'm concerned Briere is worth upwards of 5 million a year. A player dynamic as that will win you 10 games a year almost by himself.
That Aud Smell Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 the sad irony is this: (i) market value for danny may well be in the order of $5 million and (ii) the sabres as an organization are not in a position to pay him that.
X. Benedict Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 the sad irony is this: (i) market value for danny may well be in the order of $5 million and (ii) the sabres as an organization are not in a position to pay him that. We will see. It looks like quite a few teams may paint themselves into a salarycap hell with multiyear deals that don't produce. I don't think revenue will continue to climb at 10% year on year for the entire league. For example look at the Devils: " Lots of people around the league are waiting what kind of magic New Jersey GM Lou Lamoriello can pull off with his remaining free agents. The Devils have less than $2 million in cap room available and still want to bring back center Scott Gomez and their leading goal-scorer Brian Gionta. It's probably going to take between $7 million and $8 million to sign both, although the CBA allows teams to be 10 percent over $44 million cap until training camp starts." (from cbssportsline)
That Aud Smell Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 We will see. It looks like quite a few teams may paint themselves into a salarycap hell with multiyear deals that don't produce. I don't think revenue will continue to climb at 10% year on year for the entire league. For example look at the Devils: " Lots of people around the league are waiting what kind of magic New Jersey GM Lou Lamoriello can pull off with his remaining free agents. The Devils have less than $2 million in cap room available and still want to bring back center Scott Gomez and their leading goal-scorer Brian Gionta. It's probably going to take between $7 million and $8 million to sign both, although the CBA allows teams to be 10 percent over $44 million cap until training camp starts." (from cbssportsline) Great intell. on the Devils, X. My concern in the interim is this: There is a shaking out process that's going on, whereby it may come to light a few years from now that Danny Briere was too dear at 5 mill a year ... but my sense is that, in the meantime, some franchise will be prepared to overspend for him.
nfreeman Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 My concern in the interim is this: There is a shaking out process that's going on, whereby it may come to light a few years from now that Danny Briere was too dear at 5 mill a year ... but my sense is that, in the meantime, some franchise will be prepared to overspend for him. Exactly. Friends, don't kid yourselves: while there will be plenty of franchises that manage the cap poorly, there will always be a few with money burning holes in their pockets for free agents. It only takes one GM to fall in love with a player and make a crazy offer -- like St. Louis and McKee this year. I hate to say it, and I hope I'm wrong, but if Briere becomes a UFA, he is gone.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 Great intell. on the Devils, X. My concern in the interim is this: There is a shaking out process that's going on, whereby it may come to light a few years from now that Danny Briere was too dear at 5 mill a year ... but my sense is that, in the meantime, some franchise will be prepared to overspend for him. I agree ... while the Devils should be a cautionary tale, with a handful of players eating up their cap, there are still going to be several teams out there at the end of next season who are looking for that ONE big money guy ... If i am Briere, I might have a tough time taking $4 million a year now when I might be 12 months from somebody offering me $6 million. Not sure I am explaining that well, but I guess I am saying that while the Devils are in tough shape, and several other teams may be too when Briere hits UFA, all it takes is one or two teams with the room in their budget to put him out of the Sabres price range. Even Edmonton, by all accounts a small-market team, was prepared to pay Pronger $6 million+ before he asked for a trade. If I was Briere's agent, I might not be telling him to wait no matter what, but i certainly would not be telling him to get what he can because the market is going to dry up. If he has a good year, the money will be there from someone.
X. Benedict Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 This is a decent piece on the West and how they are managing the cap: Cap in West Interesting to see who has spent how much of their cap.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 This is a decent piece on the West and how they are managing the cap: Cap in West Interesting to see who has spent how much of their cap. Oh well this explains everything .. in the Canucks section it says they obtained "defensive-minded forward Taylor Pyatt .." no WONDER he didn't score more ... he's just defensive-minded!
X. Benedict Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 Oh well this explains everything .. in the Canucks section it says they obtained "defensive-minded forward Taylor Pyatt .." no WONDER he didn't score more ... he's just defensive-minded! The last 14 games of his career, yes. The first 250 games could be called absent-minded.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 Explaining away Pyatt's career numbers (or lack thereof) by calling him defensive-minded is like saying that Andrew Raycroft had a bad year in Boston because he was too offensive-minded ...
X. Benedict Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 Explaining away Pyatt's career numbers (or lack thereof) by calling him defensive-minded is like saying that Andrew Raycroft had a bad year in Boston because he was too offensive-minded ... Maybe Pat Quinn was a little too football-minded.
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 17, 2006 Report Posted July 17, 2006 :D We'll be here all week! Try the veal! Tip your waitresses ...
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