apuszczalowski Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 I think in a couple years if the Sabres continued to stay at the top of the league while using the plan of letting people go because of money and replacing them with kids from Rochester works out, I would feel alot more confident and comfortable with saying player 'x' can be replaced, or Darcy knows what he is doing. Last year was only one really good year and doesn't prove anything to me. The Sabres had one great run and now everyone is sold on how the team was built last year and believe that its the way a successful team gets built in a salary capped league. Shouldn't the brackets next to upside read (Players who will be gone once they have developped into good players and deserve more money)?
phSabres84 Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 Pyatt, I think, is one of those players that's going to need a change in venue to begin to see his productivity...It might just not work here! Nothing wrong with that, it's just the way it is sometimes. Trade 'em and move on!
LabattBlue Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 How quickly people forget that he's only 24. He'll probably never be what we want him to be, but to say that he's peaked seems like a stretch. I just don't see any upside in Pyatt. He is a 4th liner(borderline 3rd liner) who will probably never score more than 10-15 goals per year. I could be wrong, but a guy who has the talent to score a hat trick in one game and then proceed to only score 3 more goals in 40 games, makes me wonder. I don't think Pyatt is going anywhere for the next year or two as his value is limited and Darcy is still probably in love with the fact that Pyatt was a top 10 draft pick.
X. Benedict Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 I just don't see any upside in Pyatt. He is a 4th liner(borderline 3rd liner) who will probably never score more than 10-15 goals per year. I could be wrong, but a guy who has the talent to score a hat trick in one game and then proceed to only score 3 more goals in 40 games, makes me wonder. I don't think Pyatt is going anywhere for the next year or two as his value is limited and Darcy is still probably in love with the fact that Pyatt was a top 10 draft pick. Just an observation, but I think you and I would just disagree about certain players value to a team. I thought Mike Greir had a great season. I also thought that Pyatt had some great minutes in the playoffs - esp. against Philly and Ottawa. I wonder what you would have thought of Craig Ramsay during the 80's when his offensive production left him. I am not suggesting that Grier and Pyatt are going to be 20 goal scorers every year- although I think Pyatt has the potential to have 20 goal seasons. I thought he was playing very well both offensively and defensively before he broke his wrist in November and just didn't have a great niche when he came back because all the lines were playing so well together on the winning streak. There were so many games this past year that Mike Grier was the best player on the ice in terms of smarts, physical presence, and PK. Those things don't always show up in point production.
jad1 Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 Just an observation, but I think you and I would just disagree about certain players value to a team. I thought Mike Greir had a great season. I also thought that Pyatt had some great minutes in the playoffs - esp. against Philly and Ottawa. I wonder what you would have thought of Craig Ramsay during the 80's when his offensive production left him. I am not suggesting that Grier and Pyatt are going to be 20 goal scorers every year- although I think Pyatt has the potential to have 20 goal seasons. I thought he was playing very well both offensively and defensively before he broke his wrist in November and just didn't have a great niche when he came back because all the lines were playing so well together on the winning streak. There were so many games this past year that Mike Grier was the best player on the ice in terms of smarts, physical presence, and PK. Those things don't always show up in point production. I agree that Grier is invaluable to the team, but when it comes to cashing in, point production counts. There are fewer good goal scorers in the league than role players, and teams rather spend their money on the scorers. This is why I'm optimistic that Grier will return to the Sabres. I can't see many teams offering him much more than $2 million a year. The Sabres should be able to resign him at a modest increase.
SDS Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 I agree that Grier is invaluable to the team, but when it comes to cashing in, point production counts. There are fewer good goal scorers in the league than role players, and teams rather spend their money on the scorers. This is why I'm optimistic that Grier will return to the Sabres. I can't see many teams offering him much more than $2 million a year. The Sabres should be able to resign him at a modest increase. has anyone come across any discussion of him being mentioned as going elsewhere?
X. Benedict Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 has anyone come across any discussion of him being mentioned as going elsewhere? I am betting that Chris Drury weighs in on this. I think it is looking better and better that he'll be back seeing how teams are spending early. Lots of teams have already boxed themselves in and will have to have 5-8 roster players on the league minimum.
shrader Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 has anyone come across any discussion of him being mentioned as going elsewhere? I get the feeling that most teams won't be able to see past his point production. Grier won't be in high demand in this market.
Don Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 has anyone come across any discussion of him being mentioned as going elsewhere? Yep: In French. Greer to San Jose: http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/207631.html
Ogie Oglethorpe Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 Le San Jose???? Sacre bleu!!! Does this clear the way for a Captain Crunch return? Any words on Biron to Florida for Bouwmeester?
LabattBlue Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 Just an observation, but I think you and I would just disagree about certain players value to a team. I thought Mike Greir had a great season. I also thought that Pyatt had some great minutes in the playoffs - esp. against Philly and Ottawa. I wonder what you would have thought of Craig Ramsay during the 80's when his offensive production left him. I am not suggesting that Grier and Pyatt are going to be 20 goal scorers every year- although I think Pyatt has the potential to have 20 goal seasons. I thought he was playing very well both offensively and defensively before he broke his wrist in November and just didn't have a great niche when he came back because all the lines were playing so well together on the winning streak. There were so many games this past year that Mike Grier was the best player on the ice in terms of smarts, physical presence, and PK. Those things don't always show up in point production. I believe you will agree with me that Grier is a disaster offensively and that is where I have my biggest problem with him(or with Lindy). Drury being saddled with Grier as one of his wingers is not doing any favors for one of the teams better offensive players. If he had come back for roughly the same money as last year and was placed on the 4th line, I would have no problem with him. Having him back with a 400k raise...forget about it. I'm sure there are Grier-like players(good checker, PK and locker room guy) out there who can be had for a lot less than 1.75 mil per year. Please don't compare Grier's career to Ramsay's. Ramsay had a string of 20+ goal seasons on top of a stellar career as a checking winger. Hands of stone Grier has had 2 seasons where he just reached 20 and twice as many where he didn't hit 10. On top of that, he was nowhere near the defensive player that Ramsay was. Like I said with Pyatt, I think he is going to be a Sabre in 06-07 and will have plenty of chances again to step up to the next level. With young players coming up behind him like Paille, Stafford and Thorburn though, the clock is ticking on his future as a Sabre. Any words on Biron to Florida for Bouwmeester? Where did you hear this? It would take a hell of a lot more than Biron to get Jay Bouwmeester from Florida.
Eleven Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 Here's the problem with not being overly worried about losing players like McKee and Grier, based on how well last offseason worked out. Losing Satan and Zhitnik, although I didn't agree at the time, turned out to be addition by subtraction. Losing McKee and Grier is just subtraction. Eleven, we didn't win the Cup last year (news flash). Standing pat is not a good option for teams that are serious about winning the Cup. Besides, with McKee, Grier and Biron likely gone, and great uncertainty about what we're going to add, they're not exactly keeping the team in tact, are they? I think we all know the team would have reached the finals even if only two (rather than four) defensemen were out. With a healthy roster all season, who knows what the team would have done--is it a stretch to say they would have caught Ottawa? With one more year of experience, these kids will be great together. If there was a way to keep the whole team together (including Connolly, McKee and Grier), I would not have made a change. (Keep Fitz at 7th D? Maybe Janik instead. Someone has to be the 7th D-man, though, and it won't be a quality player.) Standing pat is an incredibly good option for a team that's on the cusp of winning the Cup. Why mess with success? It's not like they're coming from ninth place again. But McKee was overpaid yesterday, so no standing pat.
LabattBlue Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 I think we all know the team would have reached the finals even if only two (rather than four) defensemen were out. With a healthy roster all season, who knows what the team would have done--is it a stretch to say they would have caught Ottawa? With one more year of experience, these kids will be great together. If there was a way to keep the whole team together (including Connolly, McKee and Grier), I would not have made a change. (Keep Fitz at 7th D? Maybe Janik instead. Someone has to be the 7th D-man, though, and it won't be a quality player.) Standing pat is an incredibly good option for a team that's on the cusp of winning the Cup. Why mess with success? It's not like they're coming from ninth place again. But McKee was overpaid yesterday, so no standing pat. Carolina won it all and I don't see them standing pat? Not making any moves doesn't guarantee squat for the Sabres. There is always room for improvement and that is where Darcy comes into play.
X. Benedict Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 Please don't compare Grier's career to Ramsay's. Ramsay had a string of 20+ goal seasons on top of a stellar career as a checking winger. Hands of stone Grier has had 2 seasons where he just reached 20 and twice as many where he didn't hit 10. On top of that, he was nowhere near the defensive player that Ramsay was. Hey, some love for Ramsay :D . If Grier is going to San Jose for 1.75 mil. a year, I think they are getting a bargain. That is going to be a team with some big size up front. I have always loved Grier's play. Goals or not. Offensive disaster? I think that is a curious idea. This season him and Drury went against the top lines in what I think was Hockey's best division. Ottawa 13 times, Toronto 8, Montreal 8 - and regular season with the playoffs Carolina 11, Philly 10. Matching those Top lines is how he should be evaluated. Oh well. I'll miss Mike.
jad1 Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 Carolina won it all and I don't see them standing pat? Not making any moves doesn't guarantee squat for the Sabres. There is always room for improvement and that is where Darcy comes into play. How is Carolina not standing pat? They've only signed their own players, and have lost Gerber, Cullen, and Weight. They still have to sign Cole, and either sign or replace Ward and Wesley.
LabattBlue Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 How is Carolina not standing pat? They've only signed their own players, and have lost Gerber, Cullen, and Weight. They still have to sign Cole, and either sign or replace Ward and Wesley. Unless my definition of standing pat is not correct, I would assume it means that you bring back the same team as the year before. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if Gerber, Cullen, Weight and Ward(as it stands today) are not part of their 06-07 roster, they did not "stand pat".
jad1 Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 Unless my definition of standing pat is not correct, I would assume it means that you bring back the same team as the year before. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if Gerber, Cullen, Weight and Ward(as it stands today) are not part of their 06-07 roster, they did not "stand pat". Right, one could argue that they are actually regressing. That by tripling the contracts of many of their RFAs, they are forced to let players who contributed to last season's success leave.
Eleven Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 Carolina won it all and I don't see them standing pat? Not making any moves doesn't guarantee squat for the Sabres. There is always room for improvement and that is where Darcy comes into play. Making moves doesn't guarantee anything either. If the Sabres started '06-'07 with exactly the same team as 05'-'06, would you be disappointed? (I know that's no longer possible, but my point was that the Sabres don't need to do a whole lot of "buying" this year, IMO.)
LabattBlue Posted July 3, 2006 Report Posted July 3, 2006 Making moves doesn't guarantee anything either. If the Sabres started '06-'07 with exactly the same team as 05'-'06, would you be disappointed? (I know that's no longer possible, but my point was that the Sabres don't need to do a whole lot of "buying" this year, IMO.) I would not have been disappointed, but I also would not have been upset if they packaged Biron and a forward(Kotalik or Dumont) for a defenseman to replace McKee.
Swedesessed Posted July 5, 2006 Author Report Posted July 5, 2006 Ok I am back to admit something: I was wrong. Dead wrong. Wrong about Darcy and wrong about the Sabres. What a signing by the Sabres. Spacek is a great addition. SDS I apologize for the way I acted and I know how good of a job you do on both this site and twobills. Emotions get the best of me with the Sabres and I truly care about this team and I think I had a delayed reaction to Game 7 till July 1st and it boiled over.
nfreeman Posted July 5, 2006 Report Posted July 5, 2006 Ok I am back to admit something: I was wrong. Dead wrong. Wrong about Darcy and wrong about the Sabres. What a signing by the Sabres. Spacek is a great addition. SDS I apologize for the way I acted and I know how good of a job you do on both this site and twobills. Emotions get the best of me with the Sabres and I truly care about this team and I think I had a delayed reaction to Game 7 till July 1st and it boiled over. Good man, Czechmate. Well said. Hopefully some of your naysaying colleagues will follow your lead. Everyone is welcome on the bandwagon.
Stoner Posted July 5, 2006 Report Posted July 5, 2006 I have followed Czech's lead and applauded Darcy's moves on defense. But I will not follow his or her lead and apologize and admit I was wrong. There's too much offseason to go. While things look brighter than they did a few days ago, we still have a ton of critical players to get under contract. And please scrap the word bandwagon. I don't think that applies to any fans here, be they optimists, pessimists or realists.
apuszczalowski Posted July 5, 2006 Report Posted July 5, 2006 Finally Darcy did something, good pick up, things are starting to look brighter. Although this was a good move, I too will wait until the season to start applauding Darcy because he still has ALOT of work ahead of him and one good move isn't going to take away from that. But I would say this is definitly a good sign that just maybe I was wrong (which like I had said earlier I hoped would happen)
nfreeman Posted July 5, 2006 Report Posted July 5, 2006 I have followed Czech's lead and applauded Darcy's moves on defense. But I will not follow his or her lead and apologize and admit I was wrong. There's too much offseason to go. While things look brighter than they did a few days ago, we still have a ton of critical players to get under contract. And please scrap the word bandwagon. I don't think that applies to any fans here, be they optimists, pessimists or realists. More than fair enough. You are absolutely right about the term bandwagon -- it is loaded with a negative connotation. I simply meant that the more support the team gets from its true fans, the better. Now, if we lock up the core before training camp, perhaps you'll reconsider on the far-reaching apology? Go Sabres.
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