McKee to St. Louis

[rickshaw]

Deluca, exactly.

 

I very much enjoyed the play of Paetsch in game 7. I have no doubt he can fill in that void.

 

As I live in BC I follow the Canucks as well. They had no chance of landing Jovo, but that's fine. They will replace him with their number 1 pick from a few years ago. Luc Bourdon is the same type of player, but I feel in time he'll be better than Jovo. He'll command much less in the $$ area and the Canucks will have to go through the growing pains.

 

But that's the way it is. Cyclical.

 

The Canucks may have overpaid for Willie Mitchell today, but he's a BC boy and they needed some serious backline help. But the Sabres in no way needed to overpay for McKee. His year was great but I cannot see him ever doing any better than he did this year. Just my opinion.

[Hawerchuk]

I'm mixed about the whole thing. On one hand he was valuable and really showed it this season. On the other, paying him in the range of $16mil was not in the Sabres plan. Tough to see him go, but with the new NHL and free agents, thats they way its gonna be. I really did like McKee. Man, I remember in '99 he was a freakin beast. One of the best plays was when he did a flying missle check against M.Lemiux in the playoffs. We lost that damn series and Jay had a concussion from the check. Woulda been better if he knocked Mario out too.

 

But now? Hey you wanna play "The Blues"? Be our guest. Enjoy your $$$$$$$$$$'s and not your Cup, Jay. C-ya!

[nfreeman]

Here's my 2 cents:

 

1. Is there anyone on this board who, in McKee's shoes, wouldn't have taken $16 million St. Louis was offering over the $6.5 million to $7 million that we offered him? Or anyone here who would have advised his son not to do so? Of course not. This is almost certainly Jay's ONE shot at a big payday for the rest of his life. He had to take the cash, and there is nothing whatsoever wrong with his decision.

 

Instead of sounding like a bunch of jilted schoolgirls making bitchy remarks about him being greedy and not caring about winning, we might wish him well and thank him for giving us everything he had while he was here.

 

2. PAFan is absolutely right about this mooting all of the arguments that we've been having over the past couple of weeks about how much we should pay him. I only detected one person on this board still PO'd at the Sabres about this. sorry Goodfella -- I know you're disappointed, as are we all, but your post just can't be taken seriously.

 

3. There is a lot of crazy $$ flying around. Chara got $7.5 million per year for 5 years!!

 

4. We will be just fine. Darcy will find someone like teppo or lydman to take Jay's place, or maybe Paetsch will step up.

 

5. Speaking of Teppo, it sure would be nice to get him back. I think between his age, his injury problems in the playoffs and his heart surgery a few days ago, other teams might be scared off enough so that his price doesn't get too high.

 

6. Even if we do get Teppo back, though, I think we'll need another veteran defenseman. His health is just too iffy.

 

this is a tough loss, but we'll get through it.

 

Go Sabres.

[Swedesessed]

My 2 cents in the 1st day of free agency:

 

1. Sometimes when you want to win, and win consistently, you have to pay a little more for a guy who really has meant a lot to the organization. What kind of message does this send to the rest of the players who will become free agents next year, or beyond??

 

2. What kind of message does this send to the team after coming 15 minutes away from the Stanley Cup Finals? Cannot be a great one I imagine.

 

It is only Day 1, but I think all of us as Sabres fans have to come to this realization sooner or later: The Buffalo Sabres have to operate like the Oakland A' in baseball to a lesser degree, rely heavily on drafts and player developement, lose at least 1 important player a year, and hope and pray the system can replace that player. The cap will escalate faster in due time, I can promise you that. And things will almost be back to normal in the "new NHL"

[Goodfella25]

nice analysis... not.

 

If Jay's quote was true than he was offered $2M/yr for 3 years. $6M is a long, long, long way from $16M.

 

 

When did I EVER say I wanted McKee back at $4 million/year?? That is ridiculous, obviously. But the point was Regeir seems to wait and wait on things, and I know most of you are advocates of that approach but I continue to say that I'm not. He hasnt even gotten to signing any of the plethora of restricted free agents we have, and yea yea I know some will be up for arbitration.

 

There were players to be had today, at a price that's affordable for this organization, that would have helped and they are gone.

 

Keith Carney signed with Minnesota, 2 years, 2.1 million

Brian Pothier signed with Washington, 4 years, 2.5 million

 

There are still some decent defensemen out there, I just hope we get it going because I'm not comfortable with Jillson and Janik as regulars.

[Swedesessed]

When did I EVER say I wanted McKee back at $4 million/year?? That is ridiculous, obviously.

 

 

Why is that ridiculous?

 

In today's NHL, having quality defenceman is CRITICAL, more then EVER, especially a guy that blocked more shots then any defenceman in the NHL.

 

 

The market value on d-men and goaltenders has shot up, and that will not change for a long time.

 

 

McKee is a big loss, and just closes the gap on the division even more, especially if you look at what Toronto and Boston are doing.

[Goodfella25]

Here's my 2 cents:

 

1. Is there anyone on this board who, in McKee's shoes, wouldn't have taken $16 million St. Louis was offering over the $6.5 million to $7 million that we offered him? Or anyone here who would have advised his son not to do so? Of course not. This is almost certainly Jay's ONE shot at a big payday for the rest of his life. He had to take the cash, and there is nothing whatsoever wrong with his decision.

 

Instead of sounding like a bunch of jilted schoolgirls making bitchy remarks about him being greedy and not caring about winning, we might wish him well and thank him for giving us everything he had while he was here.

 

2. PAFan is absolutely right about this mooting all of the arguments that we've been having over the past couple of weeks about how much we should pay him. I only detected one person on this board still PO'd at the Sabres about this. sorry Goodfella -- I know you're disappointed, as are we all, but your post just can't be taken seriously.

 

3. There is a lot of crazy $$ flying around. Chara got $7.5 million per year for 5 years!!

 

4. We will be just fine. Darcy will find someone like teppo or lydman to take Jay's place, or maybe Paetsch will step up.

 

5. Speaking of Teppo, it sure would be nice to get him back. I think between his age, his injury problems in the playoffs and his heart surgery a few days ago, other teams might be scared off enough so that his price doesn't get too high.

 

6. Even if we do get Teppo back, though, I think we'll need another veteran defenseman. His health is just too iffy.

 

this is a tough loss, but we'll get through it.

 

Go Sabres.

 

That's right nfreeman, keep singing Darcy's praises. Like I said, $16 million for Mckee is outrageous....but that could have been avoided LAST OFFSEASON, if you recall, when we had a chance to sign him long term, but Darcy opted instead to sign him for one year, knowing full well that we could lose him. That's what pisses me off the most.

 

I mean as someone else said, sometimes you have to pony up the dollars to keep an important player in the fold, and it seems like we never ever do that. How far would you like this to go? How about next year if Briere bolts to another team, what's your excuse for Darcy then?

[scottnc]

That's right nfreeman, keep singing Darcy's praises. Like I said, $16 million for Mckee is outrageous....but that could have been avoided LAST OFFSEASON, if you recall, when we had a chance to sign him long term, but Darcy opted instead to sign him for one year, knowing full well that we could lose him. That's what pisses me off the most.

 

And what if McKee didn't adapt to the speed of the new NHL? It's easy to say this now, but if he signed him long term and Jay flopped people would have been complaining about that too. It's very easy to be critical of a GM through the 20/20 vision of hindsight. Why don't we see what our roster looks like in September rather than get all up in arms on the first day of free agency.

[shrader]

Why is that ridiculous?

 

In today's NHL, having quality defenceman is CRITICAL, more then EVER, especially a guy that blocked more shots then any defenceman in the NHL.

The market value on d-men and goaltenders has shot up, and that will not change for a long time.

McKee is a big loss, and just closes the gap on the division even more, especially if you look at what Toronto and Boston are doing.

 

Why is it ridiculous? If we paid McKee that much, we'd have to pay Lydman, Talinder, and Kalinen even more. We're talking about putting over $16 million a year into 4 players. Thanks but no thanks. I'll take my chances with a move or two like Darcy made last year.

[nfreeman]

That's right nfreeman, keep singing Darcy's praises. Like I said, $16 million for Mckee is outrageous....but that could have been avoided LAST OFFSEASON, if you recall, when we had a chance to sign him long term, but Darcy opted instead to sign him for one year, knowing full well that we could lose him. That's what pisses me off the most.

 

I mean as someone else said, sometimes you have to pony up the dollars to keep an important player in the fold, and it seems like we never ever do that. How far would you like this to go? How about next year if Briere bolts to another team, what's your excuse for Darcy then?

 

Yes, we could've re-signed McKee long term before last season. Leaving aside the very reasonable questions about whether McKee would be able to survive in the new, speed-oriented NHL, that would've meant risking probably $2 million or more per year in guaranteed money on a guy who had just missed 39 games with injuries in 03-04, and 23 games with injuries the season before that.

 

Do you really think Darcy failed to sign McKee long-term due to laziness or stupidity? ie he was too busy eating donuts or faxing pictures of his butt to Roby? Or maybe he determined based on the above that this was a risk that the sabres couldn't afford to take? Maybe he understands, since after all he works there, that the sabres can only spend a certain amount on payroll, and once they hit that number, there's no more?

 

You invited me to keep singing Darcy's praises. I intend to do exactly that. I think he is an excellent GM. It's not a coincidence that we've made the conf. finals 3 out of the last 8 years with a low-revenue, controlled-budget setting. He got Briere for Gratton, Warrener for Wilson, Connelly and Pyatt for Peca, Dumont and Gilmour for Grosek, etc. etc. He built this team and chose and stuck with Lindy (did you want to can him too before this year? please tell the truth.)

 

I'm unhappy that we lost McKee. I'm unhappy that as someone else said we're probably going to lose an important player every year b/c of budgetary constraints. I'm unhappy that there is a real risk that Briere, knowing he's a year away from at least $6 million per year as a UFA, will probably not sign a long-term deal with us this year for much less than that -- and that this means it's quite likely we'll lose him next year as you suggest.

 

But guess what: that's life as a Buffalo sports fan. And it's not Darcy's fault, or Golisano's, or Ralph Wilson's. Darcy after all is just working within the parameters given to him by his boss. And those parameters are reasonable. No one is going to throw away millions of dollars on a money-losing sports franchise just b/c the fans want to sign expensive players. If you're PO'd about that, I'd invite you to consider the alternative of the teams packing up and moving. Don't kid yourself: those are the only 2 choices.

[jad1]

Yes it's always about the money. I don't think it's fair for anyone to criticize Jay one iota. It cuts both ways, you know. Teams are not shy about trading or waiving players when it's in the team's best interest. It's just business.

 

Four million a year certainly makes the argument moot we've been having about McKee lately. I think that's on the high end of what most people expected, and there's no way the Sabres were going to, or should have, paid that. How's that for waffling? Not really, because what I've been saying is that McKee would not be out of place getting Chris Drury money.

 

The question I have now the "pecking order" advocates is why Henrik Tallinder and his agent won't just point to McKee in St. Louis at 4 million and ask for... 4 million?

 

Actually, it's not that suprising. St. Louis needed a #1 defenseman and a leader. $4 million is a bargain considering what McCabe, Lindstrom, and Pronger are being paid.

 

And if Tallinder goes to arbitration, McKee's contract is going to cause all kinds of hell for Regier and the Sabres.

[Larry Playfair]

4 mil this year was a reach for us, and 4 mil for 3 additional years was never a possibility. Good for you Jay - you deserved that kind of money, we just couldnt strategically afford to give it to you. Thanks for your hard work and dedication. Hope it works out for you, and I also hope you will be rooting for us when we make another cup run w/ a balanced lineup!

 

Regarding our missed chance to sign him last year - we didn't sign him, or just about anyone else last year, b/c our plan was to wait to see how the new NHL panned out. Its a risk reward decision, but was the right move. Based on our success and learnings this year, I'd like to see some multi year deals for our current players, at reasonable prices. I think it will happen.

 

One thought that is a little bit contradictory to my first thought - w/ the cap likely increasing every year, will 4 mil a year be considered cheap in 4 years for a top D man? Based on some of the numbers being throw around, I think teams believe that the cap is only going up, so some of these "outrageous" deals may be bargains at towards the end of tehir contract terms. But the other end of that shaft is the position Philly is in - locked into long term deals with aging players.

 

Go Sabes!

[Eleven]

Again: The mistake wasn't failing to sign McKee for $4M x 4yrs this summer. The mistake was failing to sign him for $2M x 3yrs LAST summer. IMO, Regier's big mistake last offseason, but a big mistake that sticks out because Regier also made so many good decisions.

[joshjull]

Yes, we could've re-signed McKee long term before last season. Leaving aside the very reasonable questions about whether McKee would be able to survive in the new, speed-oriented NHL, that would've meant risking probably $2 million or more per year in guaranteed money on a guy who had just missed 39 games with injuries in 03-04, and 23 games with injuries the season before that.

 

Do you really think Darcy failed to sign McKee long-term due to laziness or stupidity? ie he was too busy eating donuts or faxing pictures of his butt to Roby? Or maybe he determined based on the above that this was a risk that the sabres couldn't afford to take? Maybe he understands, since after all he works there, that the sabres can only spend a certain amount on payroll, and once they hit that number, there's no more?

 

You invited me to keep singing Darcy's praises. I intend to do exactly that. I think he is an excellent GM. It's not a coincidence that we've made the conf. finals 3 out of the last 8 years with a low-revenue, controlled-budget setting. He got Briere for Gratton, Warrener for Wilson, Connelly and Pyatt for Peca, Dumont and Gilmour for Grosek, etc. etc. He built this team and chose and stuck with Lindy (did you want to can him too before this year? please tell the truth.)

 

I'm unhappy that we lost McKee. I'm unhappy that as someone else said we're probably going to lose an important player every year b/c of budgetary constraints. I'm unhappy that there is a real risk that Briere, knowing he's a year away from at least $6 million per year as a UFA, will probably not sign a long-term deal with us this year for much less than that -- and that this means it's quite likely we'll lose him next year as you suggest.

 

But guess what: that's life as a Buffalo sports fan. And it's not Darcy's fault, or Golisano's, or Ralph Wilson's. Darcy after all is just working within the parameters given to him by his boss. And those parameters are reasonable. No one is going to throw away millions of dollars on a money-losing sports franchise just b/c the fans want to sign expensive players. If you're PO'd about that, I'd invite you to consider the alternative of the teams packing up and moving. Don't kid yourself: those are the only 2 choices.

 

Yet Darcy signed Broken Jochen to a 3 year deal with a similar per year numbers to what Jay wanted. I would have had an easier time excepting this lack of deal for Jay had Jochen not been given that deal. Hecht isn't exactly an ironman. He hasn't played a full season since 01'-02'

 

Also Darcy can be blamed. He chose not to sign Jay long term, he also refused to negotiate with Briere prior to this past season. Briere was looking for a longer deal and not a qualifier but said he understood the team wanted to get another season out of him as a RFA. But no Briere has leverage he didn't have prior to this past year. My point is Regier can't get a free pass when decisions he makes leads directly to the Sabres losing players. He has to realize at some point that he needs to take a chance occasionally. I'm not talking about crazy chances like some of these current UFA deals being signed. I'm talking about identifying core players and locking them up before they have increase bargaining power. Its easy to find excuse as Regier does to not do things. How about if he is alittle bolder.

 

Don't give me he built 3 teams that went to the conference finals. The first two teams core were built by Muckler not Regier. Hasek carried those teams on his back and when he left so did the winning. Regier did have a chance to improve the team by moving Peca and get some help for the playoffs and chose, as he usually does, to do nothing. That decision was if you recall one of the things Hasek pointed to as the team wasn't commited to winning and he wanted out.

[hopeleslyobvious]

When did I EVER say I wanted McKee back at $4 million/year?? That is ridiculous, obviously. But the point was Regeir seems to wait and wait on things, and I know most of you are advocates of that approach but I continue to say that I'm not. He hasnt even gotten to signing any of the plethora of restricted free agents we have, and yea yea I know some will be up for arbitration.

 

There were players to be had today, at a price that's affordable for this organization, that would have helped and they are gone.

 

Keith Carney signed with Minnesota, 2 years, 2.1 million

Brian Pothier signed with Washington, 4 years, 2.5 million

 

There are still some decent defensemen out there, I just hope we get it going because I'm not comfortable with Jillson and Janik as regulars.

 

Last time I checked Janik was a UFA. The Sabres may not bring in the big name free agent to appease you, but they will bring in the right players to make the team better.

[frisky]

Well, I don't blame McKee for leaving. This could be his last big contract and that's alot of money which if he uses it wisely (what's left after everyone takes their cut of it) could last him the rest of his life. But, I think that he will be missed back there and I think at this point it could be something that could have a ripple effect in the future for the guys that will stay this year. Eventually, I think we'll be back to fighting tooth and nail to get that last 8th spot to make it into the playoffs to make the cash for the playoff games. They will have to be overachievers even in this new NHL. With that it would be hard to expect the same amount of success like we had this year consistently. At this point it looks to be that the message will be...at least we have a team to watch and the rest is gravy.

[inkman]

Yes it's always about the money. I don't think it's fair for anyone to criticize Jay one iota.

 

The question I have now the "pecking order" advocates is why Henrik Tallinder and his agent won't just point to McKee in St. Louis at 4 million and ask for... 4 million?

 

I can't fault Jay or Darcy. Jay wanted to do what was best for his family/future and Darcy wanted to do what was best for the Buffalo Floating Bisons/future.

[deluca67]

That's right nfreeman, keep singing Darcy's praises. Like I said, $16 million for Mckee is outrageous....but that could have been avoided LAST OFFSEASON, if you recall, when we had a chance to sign him long term, but Darcy opted instead to sign him for one year, knowing full well that we could lose him. That's what pisses me off the most.

 

I mean as someone else said, sometimes you have to pony up the dollars to keep an important player in the fold, and it seems like we never ever do that. How far would you like this to go? How about next year if Briere bolts to another team, what's your excuse for Darcy then?

 

 

And at that point you knew how McKee would react to the rule changes? McKee was able to take advantage of the long layoff to get healthy and what a suprise he had a great year right before becoming a UFA.

 

I am going to guess your idea of important is far different then Regier's. I'm sure Regier is more concerned with getting Ryan Miller signed long term then a role playing fourth defensemen.

 

If Brier bolts? Then someone else will take his place. The Sabres are about building depth so if one player prices himself out of Buffalo then someone else will take his place. The Quinn/Regier plan has already been proven successful.

 

Neither McKee, Briere or anyone else is greater then the team. They are just one small piece. All easily replaced when the time comes.

[LabattBlue]

And at that point you knew how McKee would react to the rule changes? McKee was able to take advantage of the long layoff to get healthy and what a suprise he had a great year right before becoming a UFA.

 

I am going to guess your idea of important is far different then Regier's. I'm sure Regier is more concerned with getting Ryan Miller signed long term then a role playing fourth defensemen.

 

If Brier bolts? Then someone else will take his place. The Sabres are about building depth so if one player prices himself out of Buffalo then someone else will take his place. The Quinn/Regier plan has already been proven successful.

 

Neither McKee, Briere or anyone else is greater then the team. They are just one small piece. All easily replaced when the time comes.

Deluca you make it sound way too easy to replace Briere. A prospect that you want to replace Briere with could just as easily turn out to be the next Morris Titanic. I had no problem letting McKee go(especially seeing the salary he got), but Briere needs to be signed to a new contract ASAP.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

Well, I don't blame McKee for leaving. This could be his last big contract and that's alot of money which if he uses it wisely (what's left after everyone takes their cut of it) could last him the rest of his life. But, I think that he will be missed back there and I think at this point it could be something that could have a ripple effect in the future for the guys that will stay this year. Eventually, I think we'll be back to fighting tooth and nail to get that last 8th spot to make it into the playoffs to make the cash for the playoff games. They will have to be overachievers even in this new NHL. With that it would be hard to expect the same amount of success like we had this year consistently. At this point it looks to be that the message will be...at least we have a team to watch and the rest is gravy.

 

^^^^^^^^I agree

[DR HOLLIDAY]

Like anyone of you would take a job with half the paycheck, he is doing what is best for him and his family, if the numbers were closer I think things could have been different, but they were not even close.

[Stoner]

DeLuca, that's insane. Wow, have you changed your tune in one year. Like they say, defeat is an orphan and winning has a thousand fathers. You're one proud papa, eh?

 

Keeping payroll down in the name of the "team," getting rid of expensive players because "no one is more important than the team" is what dozens upon dozens of losing franchises in all sports have done for years. And it almost never results in success, just like it generally hasn't been successful here.

 

We are back to "The Plan." Did it work here last season? Yes. Can it be the basis for consistent success? I don't think so. For the millionth time, though, it's too early to excoriate Golisano and Regier. It's Offseason 1, Sabres 0, but we expected to give up an early goal. Let's see how the rest of the game unfolds.

[hopeleslyobvious]

DeLuca, that's insane. Wow, have you changed your tune in one year. Like they say, defeat is an orphan and winning has a thousand fathers. You're one proud papa, eh?

 

Keeping payroll down in the name of the "team," getting rid of expensive players because "no one is more important than the team" is what dozens upon dozens of losing franchises in all sports have done for years. And it almost never results in success, just like it generally hasn't been successful here.

 

We are back to "The Plan." Did it work here last season? Yes. Can it be the basis for consistent success? I don't think so. For the millionth time, though, it's too early to excoriate Golisano and Regier. It's Offseason 1, Sabres 0, but we expected to give up an early goal. Let's see how the rest of the game unfolds.

 

PA, you don't see any merits to the plan as teams waste cap money on a few players?

[deluca67]

Deluca you make it sound way too easy to replace Briere. A prospect that you want to replace Briere with could just as easily turn out to be the next Morris Titanic. I had no problem letting McKee go(especially seeing the salary he got), but Briere needs to be signed to a new contract ASAP.

 

I guess you are missing the bigger picture here. McKee, Briere or whoever won't be repalced by one single player. If Briere leaves then players like Roy, Pominville, Pialle and Stafford will all have a role in replacing him.

Briere missed a bunch of games this season and the Sabres still won 50+. That should tell you something.

 

The Sabres play as a team. With McKee gone it doesn't fall on whoever the Sabres sign to fill his role. It goes to the defensive unit as a whole. Tallinder, Kalinin, Lydman, Campbel along with the rookies and free agents the Sabres bring to camp. All will fill any void you think McKee leaves. The same with Briere.

[deluca67]

DeLuca, that's insane. Wow, have you changed your tune in one year. Like they say, defeat is an orphan and winning has a thousand fathers. You're one proud papa, eh?

 

Keeping payroll down in the name of the "team," getting rid of expensive players because "no one is more important than the team" is what dozens upon dozens of losing franchises in all sports have done for years. And it almost never results in success, just like it generally hasn't been successful here.

 

We are back to "The Plan." Did it work here last season? Yes. Can it be the basis for consistent success? I don't think so. For the millionth time, though, it's too early to excoriate Golisano and Regier. It's Offseason 1, Sabres 0, but we expected to give up an early goal. Let's see how the rest of the game unfolds.

 

I havn't changed. The factors involved in my decision making have. It's silly to hold on to arguements when they have been proven baseless.

 

The Sabres were the best team in hockey this season. I doubt losing a fourth defensive will cause a downward spiral. The Sabres lost players throughout last season and they just kept on plugging away.

 

At this point I haven't seen one contract to a player I thought the Sabres should have been involved in.