Miller

[Seannie34]

does anyone know who is starting in net tonight?

[PTS]

Yes, Miller is playing tonight. Hasek is not.

[Sabresince70]

There is a report that Miller hurt his hand in practice and Biron is starting. It also has Noronen as dressing as back up for the game.

[Saber61]

just an update... BIRON IS SOFT... so much for getting anything back for him... ah well... noronen has been put in.... but were gettin hammered.

[Sabresince70]

And what's going through Noronen's head at this point? I'm not good enough to even dress for 11 games and now I'm supposed to stop this team while everyone in front of me abandonds me? Could anyone blame him if he skated over to Lindy, waved goodbye and went back to Findland? I get the whole "life ain't fair" bit , but put yourself in Mika's skates right now. The person the coach has been telling you is so much better than you that you can't even dress as a backup has (for the second game in a row) gave up a goal on the first shot he faced and to a team that if your defensemen pinch will eat you alive and now you have to go in and hold them? And just to make sure you don't think he feels you are truly NHL caliber he puts Biron back in to start the 3rd. Wouldn't want you to even get 2 periods of a blowout game of work.

 

If you are Edmonton are you really going to pursue this any further? We have now taken two goalies who were very marketable. That had huge upsides and potential to bring in perhaps a defensemen with the same upside and turned them into albatrosses. With all the other postings of how Z wasn't worth 3.5 and how he takes bad pen. can you justify 2.1 for a back up that gives up those kinds of goals? (for 600,000 - I could live with it but for 3 and 1/2 times that amount?) If Biron is worth 2.1 Z wouldv'e been worth 8!

[Taro T]

And what's going through Noronen's head at this point? I'm not good enough to even dress for 11 games and now I'm supposed to stop this team while everyone in front of me abandonds me? Could anyone blame him if he skated over to Lindy, waved goodbye and went back to Findland? I get the whole "life ain't fair" bit , but put yourself in Mika's skates right now. The person the coach has been telling you is so much better than you that you can't even dress as a backup has (for the second game in a row) gave up a goal on the first shot he faced and to a team that if your defensemen pinch will eat you alive and now you have to go in and hold them? And just to make sure you don't think he feels you are truly NHL caliber he puts Biron back in to start the 3rd. Wouldn't want you to even get 2 periods of a blowout game of work.

 

If you are Edmonton are you really going to pursue this any further? We have now taken two goalies who were very marketable. That had huge upsides and potential to bring in perhaps a defensemen with the same upside and turned them into albatrosses. With all the other postings of how Z wasn't worth 3.5 and how he takes bad pen. can you justify 2.1 for a back up that gives up those kinds of goals? (for 600,000 - I could live with it but for 3 and 1/2 times that amount?) If Biron is worth 2.1 Z wouldv'e been worth 8!

We don't know if Edmonton will pursue this further, as Buffalo is NOT in the market to ship a goalie for the next month or so.

 

As I posted in the game thread (sorry for repeating myself), Ryan getting hurt may actually increase the trade value of 1 or both of the other 2 goalies. After they get back into "game shape", assuming they are playing the way I believe they are capable of, they will be showing other GM's that they can play well in today's NHL.

 

Of course, if one or both fall on their face, then they will be worth about a 5th rounder and that 2nd rounder from Atlanta is looking REEAAL nice. I expect at least one of the 2 to play decent to well, but we will find out soon enough. I don't plan on making my evaluation of either goalie for at least 1 week.

 

I would feel much better about the Sabres chances this next month had we not been worrying about BOTH goalies getting the "rust" off.

[Sabresince70]

I thought the trade with Chi (Bartovic) was so we'd have a back up goalie in Roc. to call up incase of an injury? Wouldn't that imply that either Marty or Mika could still be traded?

[Taro T]

I thought the trade with Chi (Bartovic) was so we'd have a back up goalie in Roc. to call up incase of an injury? Wouldn't that imply that either Marty or Mika could still be traded?

They COULD still be traded, but I'd be shocked to see it happen before Miller returns. Marty and Mika now both have the opportunity to audition for an NHL job. They've been in the NHL before and have resumes, but this next month will determine their value a lot more than things that occurred 2 years ago (IMHO). I've never seen Darcy rush playing his hand, I can't see how losing Miller makes Darcy less hesitant to trade one of the others.

[Larry Playfair]

Before it was announced that miller had a broekn thumb, Darcy said in an interview on the radio tonight, when they asked him about the goalie situation, "we arent in the market to trade a goalie rt now cause ryan got hurt and we dont know how long he'll be out."

 

Smugly, i might add. Like he planned for the injury. The guy is an asssssswipe.

[Sabresince70]

Dave, I didn't mean anything personal, only that they seemed to go out of their way to play with Mik'a mind. If they truly think he is better than the guy in Roc. he could have at least dressed for a game before this.

 

If they are making comments like that (Darcy saying that now they aren't looking to trade because Ryan's hurt) they are screaming out other teams that they don't believe either Biron or Noronen can be a full time goalie (it sounds like they need both to = Miller).

 

What will Edmonton want when Miller comes back and we (perhaps) move back into the market? Mika and Marty?

[Sabresince70]

Maybe I'm not getting my thought out correctly. It seems that we want(ed) to get good value back for a goalie. But we want to make sure we don't give up our best goalie (right now I think we agree it is Miller).

 

So the season starts and Miller plays what, 9 out of 10? So it seems we are looking at a starter/back up as opposed to the 2 goalie system from before. So... either Mika or Marty needs to be a back up. If this is to play 1 out of every 10 or even 7 games shouldn't it be cheaper one?

 

But we kept all three because one might get hurt? Doesn't that sound to you like Miller can handle being a starter, but if he gets hurt we will need BOTH Mika and Marty to make up for it? If I'm looking at it from another teams perspective I have to believe that the Sabres don't believe Mika and Marty are NHL Starting goalie caliber so I'm not going to give up that much up in return.

 

When we had Dom and (fill in Shields, Roloson or whoever) we didn't need a third goalie on the roster. Rollie or Shields would have stepped in. So I guess what I am taking so long to say is I guess Marty and Mika aren't looked at as being as capable as Shields and Roloson were in there days here. We shouldn't expect to get that much for them in return if we don't believe it ourselves.

 

For the record I believe both Mika and Marty could be starters at some point in this league. I just don't think it will ever happen here.

[Saber61]

not with the defense they have in front of them now... that was horrid tonight... just horrid...

[Taro T]

Dave, I didn't mean anything personal, only that they seemed to go out of their way to play with Mik'a mind. If they truly think he is better than the guy in Roc. he could have at least dressed for a game before this.

 

If they are making comments like that (Darcy saying that now they aren't looking to trade because Ryan's hurt) they are screaming out other teams that they don't believe either Biron or Noronen can be a full time goalie (it sounds like they need both to = Miller).

 

What will Edmonton want when Miller comes back and we (perhaps) move back into the market? Mika and Marty?

Nothing personal taken. I have stated quite often that I think Lindy (intentionally or not) sends goalies through head trips. That said, I don't think they necessarily believe that either Marty or Mika can't be a full time goalie. I think they will be hesitant to trade either one right now because they are not certain which one will get the rust off quicker without a change of scenery. Also, oftentimes when you want to trade a player, you like to showcase him to let the other GM's see just how good the guy is. Neither goalie has been showcased to this point, but one or both definitely will now.

 

We all know Darcy has been, shall we say, a CAUTIOUS trader in the past. With Miller actually hurt and out, vs being in a position where he could get hurt and then go out, there is more risk to the Sabres involved in trading Marty or Mika away. I don't expect to see Darcy make a trade in the near future because of the increased probability of seeing the downside of a trade (having 1 or more of your backups injured along with your starter). His comments to the media, I take as either being a reflection of the increased risk involved or as irrelevant media blather. Darcy is not going to play his hand in the papers, but someone who is desperate for a goalie may now actually believe that Darcy is serious when he says he wants a defenseman (or whatever) for a goalie and not just a 2nd rounder.

 

If Mika and or Marty play well these next few weeks, Edmonton or any other potential trading partner will know that they are getting a goalie that can still play at the NHL level and that haven't suffered irreparable harm in the circus known as Jim Corsi's Goaltender Bonanza. The goalie will be worth more, possibly much more, than a 2nd rounder. If the guy the Sabres are offering in trades plays poorly, well then the Sabres will not get even a 2nd rounder for him.

 

Miller's injury moves the discussion of what M or M is worth from conjecture to hard fact. Right now either guy can be good, bad, or indifferent. After they play, we will know which path's probability has increased significantly and we will know more accurately what their true value is.

Maybe I'm not getting my thought out correctly. It seems that we want(ed) to get good value back for a goalie. But we want to make sure we don't give up our best goalie (right now I think we agree it is Miller).

 

So the season starts and Miller plays what, 9 out of 10? So it seems we are looking at a starter/back up as opposed to the 2 goalie system from before. So... either Mika or Marty needs to be a back up. If this is to play 1 out of every 10 or even 7 games shouldn't it be cheaper one?

 

But we kept all three because one might get hurt? Doesn't that sound to you like Miller can handle being a starter, but if he gets hurt we will need BOTH Mika and Marty to make up for it? If I'm looking at it from another teams perspective I have to believe that the Sabres don't believe Mika and Marty are NHL Starting goalie caliber so I'm not going to give up that much up in return.

 

When we had Dom and (fill in Shields, Roloson or whoever) we didn't need a third goalie on the roster. Rollie or Shields would have stepped in. So I guess what I am taking so long to say is I guess Marty and Mika aren't looked at as being as capable as Shields and Roloson were in there days here. We shouldn't expect to get that much for them in return if we don't believe it ourselves.

 

For the record I believe both Mika and Marty could be starters at some point in this league. I just don't think it will ever happen here.

The Sabres definitely don't want to trade their best goalie, but if the proper trade were out there even Miller would be gone. (I'd have a hard time justifying holding onto Ryan if Datsyuk and Legacy were what the Sabres would get back.)

 

I don't think we kept all 3 because the Sabres were afraid of one getting hurt, all 3 were kept because the best offer (apparently a 2nd rounder offered by Atlanta) was not valued as highly by the Sabres as the 3rd goalie insurance policy. Had a top 4 defenseman been available, I expect Buffalo would have pulled the trigger, but we now have no way of determining whether that opinion is correct or not.

 

I think we are keeping all 3 for the time being because Miller (or backup even) getting hurt has gone from a 5-10% probability of occuring to a 100% probability of occuring.

 

If a team ups the ante on what is offered for M or M, a trade could still happen before Ryan comes back. Based upon past goalie trades (such as Kiprusoff) and Darcy's past history, I would be extremely surprised to see it happen.

 

For the record, I agree with your final statement.