Big game tonight.

[Saber61]

Seriously. He/she can post like crazy but not take the one minute to register? And the posts don't exactly add anything.

 

But your Canadian comment, c'mon, was it necessary?

haha im canadian as well and proud to be... it must have been mistaken.... im just not wanting him to openly admit it so that he won't disgrace our great nation.

[Rayzor32]

Zhitnik was an UFA. The Sabres could not have traded him for picks, as they did not have any contractual rights to him. The Sabres did not have any say in the matter of where he went. They made him an offer at the end of '03-'04 and also this year. Z turned both offers down.

 

Yes, the Sabres should have re-signed Satan and then traded him. They appear to have miscalculated what salaries would be this season. I say appeared because I read somewhere (sorry, I don't have a link) that even if league revenues come in where they were supposed to this year, the players will still lose some of their escrow money because overall league salaries are above 54% of what league revenues are expected to be.

Zhitnik would have been a fine "rent-a-player" for someone down the stretch in '04 (before he got hurt) -- UFA or not, we could have at least gotten SOMETHING in return -- I remember the Wings were interested in him, as were a few other teams..

[Rayzor32]

 

Oh BTW, the above is not directed at you Rayzor32, just a general outburst rather.

no offense taken - 95% of my posts are just general outbursts (as well as 95% of what I scream at the TV/RADIO/ICE during a game)...this board is the closest thing to a support group that I know of...we need to implement a 12 step program of some kind

[Taro T]

Zhitnik would have been a fine "rent-a-player" for someone down the stretch in '04 (before he got hurt) -- UFA or not, we could have at least gotten SOMETHING in return -- I remember the Wings were interested in him, as were a few other teams..

Buffalo was 6 points out of a playoff spot at the trade deadline. They had missed the playoffs the previous 2 years. How well would it have gone over if the team had traded away Zhitnik and Satan at the deadline? They could not afford from a public relations standpoint to throw in the towel at that time.

[Rayzor32]

Buffalo was 6 points out of a playoff spot at the trade deadline. They had missed the playoffs the previous 2 years. How well would it have gone over if the team had traded away Zhitnik and Satan at the deadline? They could not afford from a public relations standpoint to throw in the towel at that time.

Personally speaking, I would have been pissed had they traded Z at that point (assuming he was healthy), b/c I thought he was going to re-sign...but I was all for dumping Miro, since he was obviously not coming back -- I thought we could have improved the team with a Miro deal at the deadline, and help us out in the future...as it stands, we got nothing..

[Knightrider]

Seriously. He/she can post like crazy but not take the one minute to register? And the posts don't exactly add anything.

 

But your Canadian comment, c'mon, was it necessary?

Actually he has registered Previous Post. I think he must have fogotten his password, though.

 

<_<

[Taro T]

Personally speaking, I would have been pissed had they traded Z at that point (assuming he was healthy), b/c I thought he was going to re-sign...but I was all for dumping Miro, since he was obviously not coming back -- I thought we could have improved the team with a Miro deal at the deadline, and help us out in the future...as it stands, we got nothing..

We seem to agree that they "couldn't" have traded Z.

 

As for Miro, I don't think they could trade him at the deadline for the same PR reasons that they couldn't trade Z. I do agree that they should have re-signed him this offseason and then traded him. They didn't because they thought salaries were going to come down more than they did and they didn't think they'd be able to trade him at his tender price. In hindsight, it definitely was a mistake.

[deluca67]

This might be the dumbest thing I have ever read. of COURSE you  are in the majority when you don't sign a free agent. The guy can only sign with one team! I'm not sure when DeLuca wanted them to sign Francis, so I can't speak to that one, but count me in with him on Aucoin. Just because he is hurt now doesn't mean he isn't a good player. (That said, the market for defensemen did get out of hand and they got more expensive than I thought they would ... I am a little more understanding of the Sabres budget than Deluca I think  ;) )

They could have had Zhitnik signed before he was a free agent.

 

Lydman isn't in the same class as a Z. Z is a true #1 blueliner. Lydman is a true 5 or 6 blueliner.

 

As most of you say. "It's too early." We'll compare what Lydman and Z have done at the end of the year. IMO that $1.6 million they "saved" is going to look less and less like a bargin <_<

[Taro T]

They could have had Zhitnik signed before he was a free agent.

 

Lydman isn't in the same class as a Z. Z is a true #1 blueliner. Lydman is a true 5 or 6 blueliner.

 

As most of you say. "It's too early." We'll compare what Lydman and Z have done at the end of the year.  IMO that $1.6 million they "saved" is going to look less and less like a bargin  <_<

They made him an offer before he was a free agent, IIRC about $4.5MM/yr for 3 years. He turned it down.

[deluca67]

They made him an offer before he was a free agent, IIRC about $4.5MM/yr for 3 years. He turned it down.

I know about that offer.

 

I was thinking they should have signed him long term a couple of years ago.

 

It's funny how some like to point out the Sabres are saving $1.6 million by having Lydman. But no one mentions them signing Teppo at twice the vaule any other team had offered him. As reported by the Sabres own radio station, WGR. The only other team to offer a contract to Teppo was Dallas @ $1 million. Together, Teppo and Lydman don't add up to what Zhitnik brings to the ice.

[Guest pwner]

I know about that offer.

 

I was thinking they should have signed him long term a couple of years ago.

 

It's funny how some like to point out the Sabres are saving $1.6 million by having Lydman. But no one mentions them signing Teppo at twice the vaule any other team had offered him. As reported by the Sabres own radio station, WGR. The only other team to offer a contract to Teppo was Dallas @ $1 million. Together, Teppo and Lydman don't add up to what Zhitnik brings to the ice.

I'll repost what I posted above to give you another chance:

 

Speaking of DeLuca's bad ideas, check out these stats:

 

Zhitnik - 11GP 2G 9A 22PIM +/- 0 3.5 million dollars

 

Lydman - 10GP 1G 4A 8PIM +/- 0 1.9 million dollars

 

 

Yeah, we are really hurting because we didn't sign Zhitnik. I wish we were paying 1.6 million dollars more for 6 more points and 3 times the stupid penalties.

 

You want to add Numminen to the equation? Here you go:

 

Numminen - 11 GP 0G 7A 10PIM +/- -1 2.0 million dollars

 

You say the two of them together don't come close to Zhitnik?

 

L and N - 10.5 GP 1G 11A 18PIM +/- -1 3.9 million dollars

Z - 11GP 2G 9A 22PIM +/- 0 3.5 million dollars

 

For the price of one Russian crybaby that consistently takes stupid penalties, we have TWO top 4 D-men that are chewing up minutes and producing at a higher level than Zhitnik.

[Guest Guest]

You say the two of them together don't come close to Zhitnik?

 

L and N - 10.5 GP 1G 11A 18PIM +/- -1 3.9 million dollars

Z - 11GP 2G 9A 22PIM +/- 0 3.5 million dollars

 

For the price of one Russian crybaby that consistently takes stupid penalties, we have TWO top 4 D-men that are chewing up minutes and producing at a higher level than Zhitnik.

I am not defending DeLuca necessarily, because I think Z did get too expensive to keep given their budget for the season, but it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

You can't just compare the production of 2 guys to 1, because of course they are going to pruduce when they are playing 40 minutes per game combined to Z's 20 or 25. Plus someone else would be in the lineup with Zhitnik who might be producing something too. If you're going to count both Lydman and Numminen, you need to figure in the production for both lineup spots. It's not 10.5 games, its 21 games.

For instance, maybe if they keep Z, Campbell needs to take a regular shift. Using his numbers playing part time and his salary it looks like this:

 

L and N - 21 GP 1G 11A 18PIM +/- -1 3.9 million dollars

Z and C - 18 GP 3 G 10 A 24PIM +/- +1 3.9 million dollars

 

I'm not saying that the Z and C combo is better necessarily, but it can be argued that having a workhorse like Zhitnik who can eat up minutes means less time guys like Campbell, Tallinder and Fitzpatrick are on the ice against the other team's best players. I can add up 4 guys with 4 points each who make less than McCabe and say their 16 points are better than his 15, it doesn't mean the leafs would be better off without McCabe.

 

Now, depth-wise and big picture, I also see where tying up $3.5 million in one guy can be dangerous for a club with a budget (especially when it is a guy who takes bad penalties at bad times). But you can't just add up two guys who are on the ice combined twice as long as Zhitnik and say their numbers equal him either.

[BetweenThePipes00]

ooops that was me ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Guest pwner]

Blame it on DeLuca. He said that together Numminen and Lydman don't add up to Zhitnik. It's his fault he is too dumb to construct an argument.

 

Your analysis is of course correct, but like you said, tying 3.5 million up in a aging D-man who has had injury problems before is a questionable way to spend 10% of the salary cap.

[Saber61]

Blame it on DeLuca. He said that together Numminen and Lydman don't add up to Zhitnik. It's his fault he is too dumb to construct an argument.

 

Your analysis is of course correct, but like you said, tying 3.5 million up in a aging D-man who has had injury problems before is a questionable way to spend 10% of the salary cap.

i would have given Z the extra 1.5 million or 1 million he wanted and left numminen and lydman to the wayside. maybe still sign lydman but for less money if do-able

[hopeleslyobvious]

I never was a Zhitnik fan, but I'm definately missing him right now, especially with Lydman out. Time to deal Biron Darcy...now!

[nfreeman]

My 2 cents:

 

1. Zhitnik was a nice player but not a #1 defenseman. Your #1 should be a scott stevens/darien hatcher type -- ie a leader and an intimidator who raises the whole team (or at least the entire D). Zhitnik is a workhorse, a good skater and a pretty solid defenseman, but he also has a terribly inaccurate shot, takes dumb penalties, does not intimidate the other team and does not lead or inspire his teammates. Frankly I don't think there is much difference between Zhitnik and Kalinin or Lydman other than Zhitnik's ability to play more minutes due to superior physical conditioning.

 

2. He was definitely not worth $3.5 million per year -- that would've made him our highest paid player! I think it was the better move to spend that cash on 2 solid defensemen in Lydman and Numminen. I'm not that impressed with Numminen, but Lindy knows more than I do and he gives Teppo a lot of ice time. Lydman seems pretty solid to me.

 

3. I don't think Darcy should be faulted for not trading Biron for a good defenseman yet. It's not like there are a bunch of them floating around. The new rules have made capable defensemen who can skate and defend without taking penalties into valuable commodities. Darcy will wait for the right offer and then jump on it. I think time is on our side in this situation.

 

4. Separate issue -- if we keep winning, sooner or later Dominik is going to have to play in HSBC.

 

5. Does anyone know what the ticket sales are like for tonight? A good crowd would be nice.

 

Go Sabres. I'm not scared of the Senators. We are going to take them out. Watch out for the Gaustad-Peters-Mair line against their tough guys.

[BetweenThePipes00]

My 2 cents:

 

1. Zhitnik was a nice player but not a #1 defenseman. Your #1 should be a scott stevens/darien hatcher type --

Are there 30 of these guys? It's like saying your #1 quarterback should be a Jim Kelly ... if there were enough of those kind of guys to go around you wouldn't have to overpay for one. Like you said later in your post, it's not like there are a bunch of good solid defensemen out there for the taking, so when one hits the open market he's going to make some cash. If someone was willing to give Zhitnik $3.5 million, that's what he is worth. Again, it probably didn't make sense for the Sabres to tie up that kind of cash in him at this point, so I understand why they let him go, but that doesn't mean he's not a good player and of value in this league.

[Taro T]

I know about that offer.

 

I was thinking they should have signed him long term a couple of years ago.

 

It's funny how some like to point out the Sabres are saving $1.6 million by having Lydman. But no one mentions them signing Teppo at twice the vaule any other team had offered him. As reported by the Sabres own radio station, WGR. The only other team to offer a contract to Teppo was Dallas @ $1 million. Together, Teppo and Lydman don't add up to what Zhitnik brings to the ice.

There is NO WAY the team was going to put forth ANY long term offers before '03-'04. The criminals had serious cash flow issues and were not interested in long term deals, and then when the team was in receivership, the NHL was not going to lock the next owner into long term deals either.

 

With the CBA having been due to expire and the uncertainty that brought with it, I think it would have been foolhardy to offer Z more $ or a longer term contract (see Yashin for reference).

[Kristian]

Look, bottom line is that Zhitnik's tendency to take stupid penalties at crucial times, paired with his inability to hit the net was more than enough reason to move him.

 

Yes he sucked up tons of minutes, yes he was playing against the top lines, but he STILL couldn't hit the net, and he STILL took moronic penalties.

 

Would it have been nice to get something for him? Of course! Can we do anything about it? Not really.