Retiring Numbers

[PTS]

I'm not a big fan of retiring numbers in hockey, or at least with the amount of times the Sabres will have done it.

 

I think three players deserve to have their numbers retired in Buffalo.

 

11 - Gilbert Perreault

39 - Dominik Hasek

2 - Tim Horton

 

I loved LaFontaine but if you are going to retire his number, you could make a case for guys like Mogilny. Gare was great as well, but I still don't think it's feels right.

 

They should have had a "Wall of Fame" like the Bills to honor the other greats, but it's obviously too late for that.

 

Can't wait til the 2050 season when guys will be wearing numbers like 54 and 72 because all the low numbers will be retired.

[Taro T]

I'm not a big fan of retiring numbers in hockey, or at least with the amount of times the Sabres will have done it.

 

I think three players deserve to have their numbers retired in Buffalo.

 

11 - Gilbert Perreault

39 - Dominik Hasek

2 - Tim Horton

 

I loved LaFontaine but if you are going to retire his number, you could make a case for guys like Mogilny. Gare was great as well, but I still don't think it's feels right.

 

They should have had a "Wall of Fame" like the Bills to honor the other greats, but it's obviously too late for that.

 

Can't wait til the 2050 season when guys will be wearing numbers like 54 and 72 because all the low numbers will be retired.

I agree that Robert definitely should not have his number retired and could go either way on Martin. I probably wouldn't have put Martin's up, but believe that it wasn't a huge mistake to retire his.

 

Horton gets his retired strictly for the way his career ended. His best seasons were well past him by the time he was a Sabre. If his number is retired for his quality of play and what he meant to a young, inexperienced team; then Crozier should have his retired as well. (Note: I don't believe Crozier's number should be retired in Buffalo.)

 

Dom's should be retired exactly 1 year after he announces his next retirement from hockey, because I think he will be serious this next time. I know a lot of people didn't like him because of personality issues, but I don't expect to ever see a goalie of that caliber in a Sabres uniform again.

 

I disagree about Lafontaine. I would put his 16 up in the rafters. The guy was absolutely phenomenal both on and off the ice. The things he could do with a puck were ALMOST as magical as #11's. I don't think he should be penalized for being injured. Almost all the injuries he suffered in Buffalo were from blatently cheap shots (even though some were not called, this was the old NHL afterall). The Sabres had him at the absolute peak of his prime and he made the NHL Hall of Fame despite the injuries.

 

I don't see how a case can be made for Mogilny based upon his years as a Sabre. He had one great year and 4 good years. During the great year, he was playing for a contract and every goal he scored increased the base pay of the next contract. The 2 things I remember most about Mogilny are coming back out for the 3 stars wearing the sombrero the night he got the hat trick against the Caps and missing breakaway after breakaway against the Devils in the 7 period game series.

 

I agree about Gare. I'd put him and Schoenfeld in the just miss category. Hawerchuk's Sabres days would be a slight notch lower than those 2.

 

I haven't seen the Sabres do it since the criminals took over, but back in the days of the Aud; they used to give top retired players a silver Sabre and "knight" them. The players that have received that could be the 1st ones in a ring of honor if they decided to start one. I know the Buffalo sports hall of fame honors athletes somewhere in the 100 level. Perhaps the "wall" is included in that. (It's been a long time since I checked the BSHoF out.)

 

Out of curiosity. Was this post brought on by word that Lafontaine's number will be retired, or for some other reason. I hadn't heard about them retiring Patty's number. Thanks.

[Guest Guest]

Apparently at a press conference this afternoon they will announce the retirement of LaLaLaLaFontaine's #16 and Gare's #18.

 

While I can debate both sides of the retiring numbers issue, since these numbers are retired the organization MUST retire #'s 5,6.

[mphs mike]

Apparently at a press conference this afternoon they will announce the retirement of LaLaLaLaFontaine's #16 and Gare's #18.

 

While I can debate both sides of the retiring numbers issue, since these numbers are retired the organization MUST retire #'s 5,6.

Sorry, I thought I was logged in. I'll claim my position.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Yeah there was a story today in the Buffalo News that they are retiring 16 and 18 ...

I have no problem with LaFontaine, especially when you consider what he has done and continues to do in the community.

I love Danny Gare, so this is not a knock on him, but personally I think you can make a better case for Craig Ramsay and even Mike Ramsey. yeah they were role players but they played their roles at a consistently high level for much longer in a Sabres uniform than Gare, Schoenfeld, etc., who were essentially also role players, not superstars. always bothered me they have Hawerchuk Rammer's number 10 so fast ...

Overall, I hate all these guys now wearing linebacker numbers, so I'd just as soon not take more numbers out of circulation. But if they are going to do it to show they are in touch with the "glory days" and make the fans have warm and fuzzy memories, I'd somehow feel better if Rammer and Rammer were honored for busting their tails for so long. But whatever ...

Oh, Hasek goes without saying. No brainer.

[TM8-PL16]

I think Mike Ramsey's should be next... LaFontaine's if fine, he's one of my all time fav's, but Gare's 18 shouldn't be... I just don't see it.

 

For me, it's like a slap in the face of Mike Ramsey who gave how many, 13?, years of busting his butt for the organization.

 

But, Gare still works for the team and Ramsey is in Minnesota... if Rammer was in working in Buffalo would his # be retired? I don't think it should matter, but apparently it does.

[Guest Joe in West Seneca]

How young is this board ? Gare is without arguement, the greatest right wing in the history of this franchise. The only Sabre to score 50+ goals twice, plus/minus that is terrific, and fought anybody! He did have some personal problems back then but he did his time. Give him his due.

[Eleven]

Here's my two cents:

 

Absent tragedy, retiring a number should be reserved for the best of the best. Guys who exceed even Hall of Fame status. That's Perreault and Hasek only. Robert's and Martin's numbers are perhaps (but only perhaps) properly retired, but only because they (along with Perreault) built the interest in hockey in this city; that line was the reason Sabres hockey became a phenomenon.

 

Tim Horton, whose days of excellence were spent elsewhere, still should have a retired Sabres number because of the "tragedy" bit.

 

If the Sabres are going to start retiring numbers of those who don't meet the standards of Perreault and Hasek, they will run out of jersey numbers quickly.

 

The only Sabres player not mentioned above who should even be considered for jersey retirement is Mike Ramsey. And after they give it consideration, they should decide not to retire 5.

[TM8-PL16]

I love Gare, not knocking him. Just saying I don't think his number should be retired. many GREAT players don't get their # retired. Will I be pissed when it gets retired? Of course not. Just saying Rammer's #5 should be first.

 

In theory, I agree with Eleven, but if they do what you suggest, it would be hard to get another number retired if your standards are to be as good as Bert and Hasek.

[Taro T]

I think Mike Ramsey's should be next...  LaFontaine's if fine, he's one of my all time fav's, but Gare's 18 shouldn't be... I just don't see it. 

 

For me, it's like a slap in the face of Mike Ramsey who gave how many, 13?, years of busting his butt for the organization. 

 

But, Gare still works for the team and Ramsey is in Minnesota... if Rammer was in working in Buffalo would his # be retired?  I don't think it should matter, but apparently it does.

Both of the Rammers were great hockey players but I don't think either one deserves to have his number retired. I would put both in PTR's Sabres Wall of Honor.

 

I don't think that Gare's should be either, but I would retire his sweater before I retired either Craig's or Mike's.

 

He scored on his 1st NHL shift and was runner up in the Calder balloting.

 

He is the only guy that I can think of that scored 50 goals on a checking line. There may have been one or 2 others in the wide open 80's, but I can't think of any.

 

He led the league in goal scoring in '79-80.

 

For a little guy he was one tough MoFo. He had over 100 PIM's the 1st time he scored 50.

 

Not that any of my next claims have anything to do with having his # retired, they do point toward his value and his love of the Sabres.

 

At least one publication claimed he was one of the league's handful of untradable players due to his value to the Sabres. (Of course the article was actually published about 1 week before he was traded, but oh, well.)

 

He absolutely bled Sabres blue. He cried when he found out he was traded. A lot of fans cried when he was traded.

 

I don't believe that Gare getting chosen ahead of Ramsay and Ramsey has anything to do with him being in Buffalo and the others being in Tampa and Minnesota. When he was in Buffalo he was probably the 2nd most popular Sabre behind Gilbert (w/ Schoenfeld and Martin getting a few votes as well).

[Hawerchuk]

Lafontaine DEFINITELY should be honored and have his # retired. I loved that guy!!

[mphs mike]

Here's my two cents:

 

Absent tragedy, retiring a number should be reserved for the best of the best. Guys who exceed even Hall of Fame status. That's Perreault and Hasek only. Robert's and Martin's numbers are perhaps (but only perhaps) properly retired, but only because they (along with Perreault) built the interest in hockey in this city; that line was the reason Sabres hockey became a phenomenon.

 

Tim Horton, whose days of excellence were spent elsewhere, still should have a retired Sabres number because of the "tragedy" bit.

 

If the Sabres are going to start retiring numbers of those who don't meet the standards of Perreault and Hasek, they will run out of jersey numbers quickly.

 

The only Sabres player not mentioned above who should even be considered for jersey retirement is Mike Ramsey. And after they give it consideration, they should decide not to retire 5.

I really agree with you Eleven BUT since the organization does not, and has begun retiring numbers I think that Shoney, Mike and Craig Ramsey meet the criteria. From what I can tell the criteria is a really good NHL player who was popular during the portion of his career spent in a (blue/gold) Sabres uniform.

[cesna]

Finally! The Sabres are respecting players from the past. I am sure this is just the beginning. Look at the Bills... they honor a player each year. Good Job Sabres!

 

Wow, can't believe I am actaully praising them!

[BetweenThePipes00]

I like that they are honoring players from the past, but you can't reture too many numbers or it takes some of the meaning out ... the Bills have a happy medium, they honor lots of guys, but when they retired Kelly's #12 it meant something big time.

 

I am still conflicted about Gare ... I love the guy, dave_b makes good arguments ... the only reason I suggested Ramsay and Ramsey over him was because of length of service, though it wasn't Gare's fault he left ... longevity counts for something as long as you are playing at a high level ...

 

To say Gare scored 50 goals on a checking line is a BIT misleading because that was not your average checking line ... the other two guys on the line both scored 70+ points that season and I believe he saw PLENTY of PP time with the Connection because Robert often played the point ... either way, the Luce-gare-Ramsay line was 4th-5th-6th on the team in scoring behind the Connection, so essentially they were the second scoring line ...

But that is just semantics because I can't seem to stop typing ... :rolleyes:

[Taro T]

Finally!  The Sabres are respecting players from the past.  I am sure this is just the beginning.  Look at the Bills... they honor a player each year.  Good Job Sabres! 

 

Wow, can't believe I am actaully praising them!

I like the idea of honoring them. I just feel there should be 2 levels of honor (very similar to what the Bills do). There should be a Wall of Fame/Honor like PTR suggested for very good / great players. I know the Sabres used to do this, but haven't seen them do something like it since the Knox's lost control of the team.

 

Players that should receive consideration for this honor (but not necessarily receive the honor) should include: Perrault, Crozier, Schoenfeld, Horton, Ramsay, Luce, Martin, Robert, Korab, Gare, Edwards, Sauve, Barrasso, Foligno, Hajt, Ramsey, Housley (although I hated him), Hawerchuk, Lafontaine, Audette, Andreychuk, Mogilny, Peca, McKee, Warrener, Patrick, Dom, Ray, Miro, and Zhitnik. I'm sure I forgot a couple that might deserve consideration, but that should cover most all of them. (Me, I'd probably include 20 of the 30.)

 

I would also honor the Knox brothers, Imlach, Floyd Smith, Muckler, and Lindy.

 

Having the sweater retired should be limited to very special athletes or very special circumstances. Considering they are already retired, I would not "unretire" Horton, Martin, or Robert, but I never would have retired Robert's # and Martin is extremely iffy in my book. Horton gets in under "special circumstances". I absolutely would retire #11 and #39. I put Lafontaine's 16 in the rafters but agree that it isn't as much of a slam dunk as the other 2.

 

The Bills only have 1 retired # - that is #12. Even OJ's isn't officially retired although no one else has worn it since.

[BetweenThePipes00]

dave_b, we may disagree sometimes, but I'll buy you a beer any time for the Housley comment ... by far the most maddening player in Sabres history.

For every pretty play it seemed two ended up in the back of our net.

[Taro T]

dave_b, we may disagree sometimes, but I'll buy you a beer any time for the Housley comment ... by far the most maddening player in Sabres history.

For every pretty play it seemed two ended up in the back of our net.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I will never forget Housley setting up Stephane Richer on clear breakaways at least 6 times in the '90 playoffs.

[mphs mike]

The one I could never stand was "King Kong" Korab

[Hawerchuk]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I will never forget Housley setting up Stephane Richer on clear breakaways at least 6 times in the '90 playoffs.

:( GULP! I remember it well.

[deluca67]

You guys are killing me :angry:

 

How can you question Gare. If he wasn't traded he would have the third greatest Sabres after Dom #1 and Bert #2. The guy scored fifty playing with Luce and Ramsey for god sake. He finished his career a Plus 161 +/- against the leagues best. Can anyone name another checking line winger who scored fifty? How many would he have if he played with Bert and Martin? 100?

 

Oh yeah. He was a Captain to. A real Captain, earned on the ice and voted by his teammates. He wasn't the coach's shill which was why he got traded. He stood up for his teammates on and off the ice.

 

He was also tough as f***ing nails. 1200+ PIMS. They were not all 2 minute hooking minors.

 

Arrrggggg :angry:

[BetweenThePipes00]

I'm not questioning Gare's character or the way he played the game, I loved it, but i feel there is a lot of "could have been" ... IF he hadn't been traded, IF he stayed healthy (his back was never right after he was traded) ... as for the IF he hadn't played with Luce and Ramsay, he really only played with them a couple years, and again they were pretty decent offensive players ... then Seiling took over with them on the checking line and he got a lot of time with Bert, especially on the PP, and he had his 56 goal year after Robert was gone and split time between Bert's line and playing a lot of it with Derek Smith and Tony McKegney ... maybe that makes your argument stronger, just saying he was not out there with a bunch of plumbers all the time.

I think longevity and durability needs to count for something, and I think it can be argued that Craig Ramsay had every bit the career Gare did if not a better one in a Sabres uniform. It's not all about offense, and I'm not saying Gare was undeserving, just that Rammer is also deserving.

[deluca67]

I'm not questioning Gare's character or the way he played the game, I loved it, but i feel there is a lot of "could have been" ... IF he hadn't been traded, IF he stayed healthy (his back was never right after he was traded) ... as for the IF he hadn't played with Luce and Ramsay, he really only played with them a couple years, and again they were pretty decent offensive players ... then Seiling took over with them on the checking line and he got a lot of time with Bert, especially on the PP, and he had his 56 goal year after Robert was gone and split time between Bert's line and playing a lot of it with Derek Smith and Tony McKegney ... maybe that makes your argument stronger, just saying he was not out there with a bunch of plumbers all the time.

I think longevity and durability needs to count for something, and I think it can be argued that Craig Ramsay had every bit the career Gare did if not a better one in a Sabres uniform. It's not all about offense, and I'm not saying Gare was undeserving, just that Rammer is also deserving.

Rammer? Without question.

 

Who knows in time he may be. It seems like the Sabres are trying to connect with their past in an attempt hold on to their long time hard core fans.

 

As far as Robert. The thing I remember most about Robert was a story by Dave Schultz. It might have been in his book 'Hammer'. Schultz had just been traded to the Sabres I think. A couple of former teammates decided to make a run at him. A scrum started and Robert came off the bench and was the first new teammate to come to his rescue. Not that he needed any. I wish I had the exact story I am pretty sure it's in the book. But that story tells me all I need to know about Robert. Plays like that earn my respect for a lifetime.

[shrader]

Pat LaFontaine is arguably the greatest American born hockey player of all time. Couple that with his involvement in the community and he's more than deserving of this honor. The only mistake here was ever allowing Chris Taylor to wear #16.

 

Someone mentioned the wall of fame for the Bills. The difference here is that on a hockey team, you have maybe 30 players, including those in Rochester. There's more than enough numbers to go around. After Hasek, you won't see another number retired for a long time. The only reason they're doing this now is to start a little buzz and sell a few tickets.

[Guest Guest]

the new question will be what type of Banner will Hasek get, a vintage blue and gold one, or one with the black, silver and red?

 

Hopefully, we will be going back to the Blue and Gold next season anyway, and we can forget about this black, silver and red non-sense. If they give Hasek a black one, and then go back to the blue and gold, Hasek will probably be the only banner ever with the black color scheme.

[TM8-PL16]

sorry, that was me ^