Anonymous players spill on what went wrong this year

[dudacek]

Interesting follow-up piece by Lance Lysowski, who says there was a large disconnect between Ruff and the players in the 1st half of the season and internal griping about Adams dating back to the start of the previous season.

"And, according to multiple veteran players, the frustration of losing led to some griping over factors that were out of their control."

Players were griping about and second-guessing the defensive coverage and PP schemes in particular and not connecting with Lindy's sense of humour. They were also upset about and mocking of Adams' palm tree presser.

Dating back to the previous year, some loved Benson, but Adams' choice to keep him, Levi and Ryan Johnson in 2023 instead of acquiring veterans for those roles and using Erik Johnson more wasn't seen internally as being in line with wanting to win.

Lance says Adams focus changed in response — he pushed Granato to stop preaching patience and made the Byram, McLeod, Zucker and Ruff moves. The Cozens move was made to further shake the room. Ruff's connection with the players has improved over the course of the year and his influence with Terry has grown.

"New faces and different personalities will join the Sabres this summer. The defense needs upgrades. Dahlin and Thompson should be surrounded by more experienced leaders. Adams’ annual end-of-season meeting with Pegula will determine and finalize staff changes, one of which may include a new title for the embattled general manager.

The coach isn’t going anywhere, though, and the foundation of the roster will be the same. In some ways, the team’s culture will reset and must be earned again."

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nhl/sabres/article_02242795-b912-4558-9618-34c8990e7ed0.html

Edited 5 hours ago by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

Culture is not earned, it's built. 

[CallawaySabres]

sooooo, 15 years.....

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Culture is not earned, it's built. 

Or it's not built at all (at least not a positive, successful, sustainable one).

Agree that the choice of "earned" seems off.  But in some ways, it's more apt than "buiit."  

You earn what you've worked towards.  If you're foundering around, you haven't earned much, but you also haven't built anything.

And if you haven't earned much, well, that's the culture you end up with: entitled, lazy, confused, etc.  (Wouldn't say the players are lazy; but would say they haven't had a cohesive plan to build upon nor have they had enough successful members showing them how to build and entitled and confused probably are accurate.)  And the entitled and lazy don't BUILD ANYTHING.  Nothing that'll stand even a modest storm at any rate.  But have they earned being where they're at?  Also, probably accurate.

Even if you don't build anything, there is still a culture.  It's simply not one you want.

Personally believe the players DO in fact want to win and want to put in the work to do so.  Don't believe they have 23 Miro Satan's on the roster.  But the "developmental" coaches they've had haven't been able to have them working productively and proactively towards winning.  As an example, they work on the PP a LOT; and the things they do seem to be ingrained (because they work at them).  Well, when you have them work on foolish things, you aren't working towards success.

Combine that with management's insistence on having more than a critcal mass of youth and then the players don't even have the example in front of them of how to do it the right way.

And heck, even the article that led to this discussion shows they haven't built a positive culture.  Positive cultures don't have players anonymously taking to reporters saying the team hasn't bought it.  But, management does seem to have earned the culture they built. 😉 

[dudacek]

I’m reading this as a power shift of sorts from Kevyn toward Lindy, which is a direction many of you wanted.

Guess we’ll find out soon how that manifests itself, but it almost certainly won’t mean sweeping changes.

[Taro T]

Just now, dudacek said:

I’m reading this as a power shift of sorts from Kevyn toward Lindy, which is a direction many of you wanted.

Guess we’ll find out soon how that manifests itself, but it almost certainly won’t mean sweeping changes.

Personally, expect that's been the case since at least the trade deadline.

Adams brought Byram onto the roster to pair with Dahlin.  Ruff said on day one that Dahlin should be paired with Samuelsson &/or Power.  Dahlin and Byram were a pair for a long time.  Muel was Dahlin's partner down the stretch.

They traded out from their core leadership group a player that was supposed to be a strong, solid, smart 2 way player that would contribute significantly at both ends.  They brought in a guy that is that (though only gives you 50 or so games per season.

Both of those moves would seem to be moving away from Adams' vision.

Both Ruff and Adams are constantly saying they themselves need to be better.  Ruff states what he's been doing in season to be better and what he plans to do to continue to get better.  Adams gives platitudes of what he'll do to be better.

Of course, all of this could be simply reading into statements what one wants to hear from them.  (Hope that's not simply the case.)

[quill]

The biggest gripe any of the players should have had for the last year is the fact that they never had a legit number one goalie. No wonder they were so inconsistent. When you're skating your hearts out and the goalie can't keep you in a game by making the big save, then it's only human nature that their play will start to reflect their frustration.

I like Lindy okay but over the last bunch of years if Adams had gotten this team the most important thing any good hockey team needs, a real number one goalie, Don Granato would most likely still be coaching this team and the Sabres would have already been in the playoffs. No goalie + not enough decent veterans  = no playoffs, especially the no goalie part. We need a legit goalie and Adams has failed time and time again to get us one.

[LGR4GM]

20 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Personally, expect that's been the case since at least the trade deadline.

Adams brought Byram onto the roster to pair with Dahlin.  Ruff said on day one that Dahlin should be paired with Samuelsson &/or Power.  Dahlin and Byram were a pair for a long time.  Muel was Dahlin's partner down the stretch.

They traded out from their core leadership group a player that was supposed to be a strong, solid, smart 2 way player that would contribute significantly at both ends.  They brought in a guy that is that (though only gives you 50 or so games per season.

Both of those moves would seem to be moving away from Adams' vision.

Both Ruff and Adams are constantly saying they themselves need to be better.  Ruff states what he's been doing in season to be better and what he plans to do to continue to get better.  Adams gives platitudes of what he'll do to be better.

Of course, all of this could be simply reading into statements what one wants to hear from them.  (Hope that's not simply the case.)

I took Ruffs comments about getting to know his players and some guys were different than he thought (paraphrasing here) to be about Cozens 1st and foremost. I think Ruff was like the entire mainstream hockey world where Cozens is a 25g 65pt 2way center with grit. I think that's why he got an A and Ruff was disappointed in what he really was. 

I'm speculating. I fully agree we're seeing a shift in real time towards Ruff. The press conference has Ruff interject a few times after Adams answered.

[LGR4GM]

33 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Or it's not built at all (at least not a positive, successful, sustainable one).

Agree that the choice of "earned" seems off.  But in some ways, it's more apt than "buiit."  

You earn what you've worked towards.  If you're foundering around, you haven't earned much, but you also haven't built anything.

And if you haven't earned much, well, that's the culture you end up with: entitled, lazy, confused, etc.  (Wouldn't say the players are lazy; but would say they haven't had a cohesive plan to build upon nor have they had enough successful members showing them how to build and entitled and confused probably are accurate.)  And the entitled and lazy don't BUILD ANYTHING.  Nothing that'll stand even a modest storm at any rate.  But have they earned being where they're at?  Also, probably accurate.

Even if you don't build anything, there is still a culture.  It's simply not one you want.

Personally believe the players DO in fact want to win and want to put in the work to do so.  Don't believe they have 23 Miro Satan's on the roster.  But the "developmental" coaches they've had haven't been able to have them working productively and proactively towards winning.  As an example, they work on the PP a LOT; and the things they do seem to be ingrained (because they work at them).  Well, when you have them work on foolish things, you aren't working towards success.

Combine that with management's insistence on having more than a critcal mass of youth and then the players don't even have the example in front of them of how to do it the right way.

And heck, even the article that led to this discussion shows they haven't built a positive culture.  Positive cultures don't have players anonymously taking to reporters saying the team hasn't bought it.  But, management does seem to have earned the culture they built. 😉 

In my mind, you have to build or work at something to earn it. You can earn wins, you can earn goals, you can earn tangible things. How you accomplish that goal is culture and that isn't earned because it's not something that can be given. It is something you build and it takes constant maintenance. 

[Flashsabre]

maybe they should start by correcting this

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

In my mind, you have to build or work at something to earn it. You can earn wins, you can earn goals, you can earn tangible things. How you accomplish that goal is culture and that isn't earned because it's not something that can be given. It is something you build and it takes constant maintenance. 

If you've done nothing, you've earned nothing of value.  BUT you still have a culture.  It may be toxic, it clearly is unproductive, but it is still a culture.  And, you've EARNED that culture you end up with.

IF you've worked hard, and built up something positive, well, you've earned THAT too.

Were culture necessarily a positive thing, would agree it necessarily is built.  But culture can vary widely and what you get is what you've earned.

[JustOutsideChicago]

I can’t imagine being one of these guys meeting with Kevyn and being told that I need to look in the mirror and be “accountable.” If he’s not gone, I’m calling my agent and getting out of dodge.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Interesting follow-up piece by Lance Lysowski, who says there was a large disconnect between Ruff and the players in the 1st half of the season and internal griping about Adams dating back to the start of the previous season.

"And, according to multiple veteran players, the frustration of losing led to some griping over factors that were out of their control."

Players were griping about and second-guessing the defensive coverage and PP schemes in particular and not connecting with Lindy's sense of humour. They were also upset about and mocking of Adams' palm tree presser.

Dating back to the previous year, some loved Benson, but Adams' choice to keep him, Levi and Ryan Johnson in 2023 instead of acquiring veterans for those roles and using Erik Johnson more wasn't seen internally as being in line with wanting to win.

Lance says Adams focus changed in response — he pushed Granato to stop preaching patience and made the Byram, McLeod, Zucker and Ruff moves. The Cozens move was made to further shake the room. Ruff's connection with the players has improved over the course of the year and his influence with Terry has grown.

"New faces and different personalities will join the Sabres this summer. The defense needs upgrades. Dahlin and Thompson should be surrounded by more experienced leaders. Adams’ annual end-of-season meeting with Pegula will determine and finalize staff changes, one of which may include a new title for the embattled general manager.

The coach isn’t going anywhere, though, and the foundation of the roster will be the same. In some ways, the team’s culture will reset and must be earned again."

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nhl/sabres/article_02242795-b912-4558-9618-34c8990e7ed0.html

What a mess but no one should be surprised by any of  this.   

Of course the better players want more from Adams, they know they need help right now.  If I was a player I would have been pissed about the prior off-season and especially by the Adams presser too.  No one wants to mocked by the national media.  Adams should be fired for that clown show of a press conference.  

I kept saying that they started the past season playing like they didn't even know each other.  It now makes sense now to hear they didn't understand or believe in the Lindy system(s).  Why would they not prefer the Granato system, it didn't ask for as much.   No one should be surprised that any coach after Granato would have big issues to overcome when putting a system in place.  

This organization is a complete mess.   It's no wonder that players leave and then thrive.  I am not encouraged by this, even if it means more change, and certainly change is needed.  

From top to bottom, and in every aspect they have been doing the wrong things and hiring the wring people ever since Terry and Kim showed up. 

I am completely discouraged.  

[Freeezo]

8 minutes ago, JustOutsideChicago said:

I can’t imagine being one of these guys meeting with Kevyn and being told that I need to look in the mirror and be “accountable.” If he’s not gone, I’m calling my agent and getting out of dodge.

That player was j.j....

[sabremike]

The players realizing that the coaching was absolute dogcrap:

[Archie Lee]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Interesting follow-up piece by Lance Lysowski, who says there was a large disconnect between Ruff and the players in the 1st half of the season and internal griping about Adams dating back to the start of the previous season.

"And, according to multiple veteran players, the frustration of losing led to some griping over factors that were out of their control."

Players were griping about and second-guessing the defensive coverage and PP schemes in particular and not connecting with Lindy's sense of humour. They were also upset about and mocking of Adams' palm tree presser.

Dating back to the previous year, some loved Benson, but Adams' choice to keep him, Levi and Ryan Johnson in 2023 instead of acquiring veterans for those roles and using Erik Johnson more wasn't seen internally as being in line with wanting to win.

Lance says Adams focus changed in response — he pushed Granato to stop preaching patience and made the Byram, McLeod, Zucker and Ruff moves. The Cozens move was made to further shake the room. Ruff's connection with the players has improved over the course of the year and his influence with Terry has grown.

"New faces and different personalities will join the Sabres this summer. The defense needs upgrades. Dahlin and Thompson should be surrounded by more experienced leaders. Adams’ annual end-of-season meeting with Pegula will determine and finalize staff changes, one of which may include a new title for the embattled general manager.

The coach isn’t going anywhere, though, and the foundation of the roster will be the same. In some ways, the team’s culture will reset and must be earned again."

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nhl/sabres/article_02242795-b912-4558-9618-34c8990e7ed0.html

This has been my point on Benson all along. It wasn't that he was unable to play in the NHL (he clearly has been able to play an effective role), but by leaving a spot open for a player on an ELC when he had $10 million in unused cap, Adams set the tone of complacency.  If your GM lacks urgency to win, how can you expect the players to approach their jobs with urgency?  It starts at the top.  Adams looked at the improved results in 21-22 (from 54 to 75 points) and 22-23 (from 75 to 91 points) and concluded he was smart and that if he just stayed the course the next step would be 100 points and the playoffs. He completely neglected to consider that the single biggest factor in those improvements was Tage Thompson unexpectedly transforming from a  borderline NHLer to a legit-star. Adams's off-season prior to 23-24 set this team back 3-4 years.

Edited 3 hours ago by Archie Lee

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

maybe they should start by correcting this

I don’t think I’d be remiss in suggesting that the coaching change was a major factor in the regression of Owen Power.

This is a kid who had only played under Granato and who was not only being asked to learn a completely new system, but also being asked at the same time to revamp his own personal style.

It created a need for him to be constantly be thinking instead just reacting, and is just another parallel with Dahlin’s struggles at the same point in his career.

Hopefully short-term pain for long-term gain.

Edited 1 hour ago by dudacek

[That Aud Smell]

I thought there were several intriguing tidbits in Lance Lysowski's article - especially the item about how core young vets resented Adams' reliance on Benson as an 18 year-old NHL regular.

That said, I struggled to get through the thing. The piece desperately needed a strong editor's hand.

[Pimlach]

47 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I took Ruffs comments about getting to know his players and some guys were different than he thought (paraphrasing here) to be about Cozens 1st and foremost. I think Ruff was like the entire mainstream hockey world where Cozens is a 25g 65pt 2way center with grit. I think that's why he got an A and Ruff was disappointed in what he really was. 

I'm speculating. I fully agree we're seeing a shift in real time towards Ruff. The press conference has Ruff interject a few times after Adams answered.

I am surprised that Ruff let Cozens and Muel wear A's.   Something tells me he was following Adams.  Nothing that Muel did this season indicates he shoudl wear an A next season.   

If they really need a 3rd A then give it to Zucker.   

[LabattBlue]

I no longer subscribe to the BN due to outrageous price increases, but any player who didn’t respond to the question with “we have a buffoon for an owner”, has their head in the sand.  

[inkman]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

I no longer subscribe to the BN due to outrageous price increases, but any player who didn’t respond to the question with “we have a buffoon for an owner”, has their head in the sand.  

You realistically think the players are going to say that ?

[inkman]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I am surprised that Ruff let Cozens and Muel wear A's.   Something tells me he was following Adams.  Nothing that Muel did this season indicates he shoudl wear an A next season.   

If they really need a 3rd A then give it to Zucker.   

It’s more of an indictment of the roster construction than what those players exuded to earn letters. A roster full of snot nose kids isn’t leading you to the promise land.  Get actual men who know how to play professional hockey. The ***** daycare is closed. Time to put men on the roster.  

[JP51]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I’m reading this as a power shift of sorts from Kevyn toward Lindy, which is a direction many of you wanted.

Guess we’ll find out soon how that manifests itself, but it almost certainly won’t mean sweeping changes.

This is not the first I have read this mentioned as a thing. It would not surprise me... I mean Lindy does have about 900 wins as an NHL coach.. not sure this makes him a GM but he certainly has more credentialled experience then KA...  I could see TP leaning on Lindy. 

[inkman]

7 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I thought there were several intriguing tidbits in Lance Lysowski's article - especially the item about how core young vets resented Adams' reliance on Benson as an 18 year-old NHL regular.

That said, I struggled to get through the thing. The piece desperately needed a strong editor's hand.

I struggled to read it as well. Sounded like gobbledy *****.  It was way too wishy washy, the players don’t want to take accountability so they just point to the nearest most obvious thing.  One thing I did learn, if the roster isn’t overhauled, we will be in the same boat again a year from now.  Blow this franchise up. 

[Doohickie]

29 minutes ago, sabremike said:

The players realizing that the coaching was absolute dogcrap:

Especially special teams.  Realistically with better-than-average special teams we're in the playoffs right now.