Let's talk Zach Benson....

[Drag0nDan]

14 hours ago, Taro T said:

Would like to see a GM brought in that can come up with a F lineup that a 20 year old Benson slots into the lineup as a 3rd liner when all are healthy and if necessary climbs the ladder some when injuries do hit.

Would like to see

New Guy - Norris - Thompson

Zucker - McLoud - Tuch

Benson - Kulich - Greenway

Malenstyn - Krebs - Lafferty

as the starting 12.  Don't want Peterka gone, nor is it desired to have Lafferty back.  Would rather have a UFA taking Lafferty's spot, but don't expect it.  And am expecting Peterka will be part of the package to fix the D and that Byram will be part of the package to find that guy that plays a large chunk of the season in Norris' spot and plays with him and Tage when Norris is healthy.  Especially if they bring in a guy that makes Lafferty the 13th or 14th F, then when Norris is out they have options of bumping up any of Tuch, Zucker, Benson, or Kulich.  And they'd probably still have Quinn around or could give Östlund, Kozak, Rousek, or Rosen looks to backfill depending upon who else is out.

(Actually, would really like to see a 2nd new guy sliding Zucker down to play with Benson and Kulich, bumping Greenway onto a really good 4th line and Lafferty into the press box with Quinn.  (Nobody is giving anything of value to take Quinn at this point.  Might as well keep him around and see if his stightly improved play down the stretch can be a starting point to his living up to his draft pedigree.)  But, with also needing to fix the D and ideally have more certainty between the pipes, not sure that 2nd top 6 guy is a luxury we'll get to see.  (IF 2 of Norris, Greenway, and Power look like they'll start the year on IR; would REALLY like to see them try to make that 2nd new top 6 guy a reality.)

And if Benson forces his way into a bigger role than 3L, cool.  But good teams have good players actually showing up on the 3rd line.

 

Top 6 players are tough to find.  Makes it way tougher when you have to factor in the trade protection clauses that the majority of veterans have.  Then you have to filter out the 22-25 year old cornerstone players who won't be moved.  

The only like bonafide stud who might be available with no trade protection is Robertson just because they're up against the cap and he's likely to get 10M AAV on his next deal.  JJP probably can't be moved in that deal because his contract will likely cost just as much as Robertson.  So then you're looking at probably moving Tuch, Rosen/Östlund/Kulich/Benson, and probably a 1st.  

12 Players scored more points than JJP that have no clauses and are under contract for next year: Hagel, Suzuki, Necas, Strome, Robertson, Raymond, Stutzle, Marchenko, Boldy, Johnston, Hughes, Caufield.  Even in that next window, the majority of players are in their early 20's with outliers like Rust, and keep scrolling and you hit cozens - then you know you cannot scroll any further.  

[quill]

Even though I think Benson is a little overrated by some people on this board, I love the way he hustles out there 100% of the time. He's quicker than just about anyone to a loose puck, he sets up players with some excellent passes, he's tough for his size, he's got good vision for the game, and his stamina is up there with the best. On the same token, he just can't seem to finish on enough of the opportunities he gets to score, and he's often flat on the ice which takes him out of the play for too long. Just the same, with the right coaching, I think there's a chance that he could develop into somewhat of a Theo Fleury type player. Maybe. Hopefully.

[Porous Five Hole]

Man, this hand wringing about Benson’s production is weird to me.  Here are the list of players 19 years old (his age) or younger who outproduced Benson offensively in the NHL this season:

Maclin Celebrini (first overall), Will Smith (fourth overall), Connor Bedard (first overall).  That’s it.  
 

To be able to develop all this time in the NHL will be a godsend down the road. He may never be a sniper, but he will always be a core player on this team.  
 

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-zach-benson-fights-jason-zucker-jordan-greenway

Edited 7 hours ago by Porous Five Hole

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

If you say so.

• Patrice Bergeron 68 games in the minors (lockout)
• Charlie McAvoy 4 games in the minors
• David Pastrnak 25 games in the minors
• Brad Marchand  113 games in the minors
• David Krecji 94 games in the minors
• Pavel Zacha 7 games in the minors
• Jake Debrusk 68 games in the minors
• Hampus Lindholm 44 games in the minors
• Charlie Coyle 47 games in the minors
• Taylor Hall 26 games in the minors (lockout)

 

• Tage Thompson 80 games in the minors
• JJ Peterka 70 games in the minors
• Rasmus Dahlin 0 games in the minors
• Alex Tuch 60 games in the minors
• Ryan McLeod 91 games in the minors
• Owen Power 0 games in the minors
• Jack Quinn 60 games in the minors
• Zach Benson 0 games in the minors
• Jiri Kulich 123 games in the minors
• Mattias Samuelsson 65 games in the minors

 

Looks to me like Benson is an outlier, but otherwise, how is the minor league experience of these Sabres different than the core of a 135-point hockey team?

Looks like the Bruins screwed up McAvoy's development.  

[The Jokeman]

I didn't like putting Benson in the NHL straight from the draft. I'm not sure he'll ever be a top 6 guy. He just feels like another Krebs. I hope I'm wrong.

[mjd1001]

56 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I didn't like putting Benson in the NHL straight from the draft. I'm not sure he'll ever be a top 6 guy. He just feels like another Krebs. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm somewhat there with you, at least for how good he is right now, I'm not as high on his game currently as some are on this board, but I think he has time to develop into a top 6 guy, but I think he needs more 'finish'.

I'll feel better about his development if next season he plays a full season, gets at least 160-180 shots, and shoots 10% or over.  I think those are reasonable goals for him to have to show he will eventually be a legit 2-way top 6 guy.  

[FrenchConnection44]

Benson is a fan favorite and really smart player with great instincts. 

I don’t see the comp to O’Reilly who is bigger and stronger. He can hang in front of the net.

Nor the comp to Marchand who is much more physical and tougher. And has a real edge to his game with dirty play. He’s mean. And an agitator not afraid to rough it up. Marchand also probably really goes only 5’7 and still around 180. Dude is a small bowling ball. 

The challenges for Benson are multiple: he doesn’t skate really fast; he doesn’t have a powerful shot; doesn’t have really strong hands or handle or ability to rocket passes; and he doesn’t really have size or strength or power for the corners, or the mean / angry streak to match up. 

He’s got great hockey sense. Tricky good defensive stick skills (except for a shot and strong hands). Now, if he gained 10-15 pounds of muscle, developed his shot and stronger passing, improved his skating speed, or became more physical in the corners he could really become a very good player. 

But he has a lot of work to do to become  a significant player imo. He’s a kid in a man’s game right now and it may take 3 more years and some adversity to get there.

The fact is, most of our players play like Junior or college kids. Benson is the poster boy. They don’t play like men. Two or three of those on a team are fine. But it takes men to win in the NHL.

 

[sabremike]

10 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

Benson is a fan favorite and really smart player with great instincts. 

I don’t see the comp to O’Reilly who is bigger and stronger. He can hang in front of the net.

Nor the comp to Marchand who is much more physical and tougher. And has a real edge to his game with dirty play. He’s mean. And an agitator not afraid to rough it up. Marchand also probably really goes only 5’7 and still around 180. Dude is a small bowling ball. 

The challenges for Benson are multiple: he doesn’t skate really fast; he doesn’t have a powerful shot; doesn’t have really strong hands or handle or ability to rocket passes; and he doesn’t really have size or strength or power for the corners, or the mean / angry streak to match up. 

He’s got great hockey sense. Tricky good defensive stick skills (except for a shot and strong hands). Now, if he gained 10-15 pounds of muscle, developed his shot and stronger passing, improved his skating speed, or became more physical in the corners he could really become a very good player. 

But he has a lot of work to do to become  a significant player imo. He’s a kid in a man’s game right now and it may take 3 more years and some adversity to get there.

The fact is, most of our players play like Junior or college kids. Benson is the poster boy. They don’t play like men. Two or three of those on a team are fine. But it takes men to win in the NHL.

 

Honestly I don't even know what to say...