Ruff and Adams end-of-season press conference: Saturday, April 19, 4:30pm

[Mr. Allen]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Same thing as what happed with Eichel.  Murray was lousy.   The worst the three Pegula GMs.  

I don’t think the exact same thing.  Eichel was not even close to the player and even person McDavid is.  Because of Eichel’s personality we got rid of a great leader so it could be “Eichel’s” team.  I don’t think we would’ve had to do the same if we landed McDavid.  
Eichel was a bad teammate at times.  McDavid is a great one. 

[JohnC]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

I don’t think the exact same thing.  Eichel was not even close to the player and even person McDavid is.  Because of Eichel’s personality we got rid of a great leader so it could be “Eichel’s” team.  I don’t think we would’ve had to do the same if we landed McDavid.  
Eichel was a bad teammate at times.  McDavid is a great one. 

You are right that Eichel wasn't the leader that McDavid was when he entered the league. He was immature. It shouldn't be surprising that a young star player felt entitled and didn't live up to his off ice responsibilities. As you keenly point out, he never should have been thrusted into a position of being a captain and team leader, especially when he was ill-equipped for that responsibility. That's as much of an organization's failure as it was his. This team had talented young players that should have been a part of their long-term core. But because of the staff's inadequacies it didn't know how to put them in a position to succeed. What you don't do is surround immature players with more immature players. That's a guaranteed recipe for failure. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, pastajoe said:

Wrong, Murray was willing to take big swings to try to improve the team. It’s mind boggling that a team with Eichel, Reinhart, O’Reilly, Kane, and Dahlin couldn’t make the playoffs. Unfortunately nobody knew about Lehner’s issues, and we got the worst couple of years of his career.

I’d much rather have a GM like Murray than someone like Adams who clutches his draft picks like they’re his own kids.

 

All Murray did was waste assets with big and desperate swings.   He lacked an understanding of people and of team chemistry.  He tanked and got two premium picks the result was a miserable losing team.  His team was always fractured, on the ice annd in the FO,  he created a big  mess.  He left Rochester in bad shape too.  The bad culture that plagues this team even today is a remnant of Murray that has yet to be exercised.   

Tanking and drafting Reinhart and Eichel deserves ZERO credit.  Anyone could do that.  

OReily was a good player, and even he was troubled when he got here.  

Bringing in Kane and Bogo was a terrible idea.  Winnipeg literally dumped two selfish troublemakers onto Murray.  The Jets could not wait to get rid of these two clowns fast enough.  The Jets improved without them, and Buffalo went nowhere. 

If anyone should have known about Lehner, it would be Murray.  He knew him in Ottawa and the guy was a flake even then. 

Murray overpaid for most of these acquisitions too.   

Murray was not a leader.  He was not a people person.  He was toxic and the entire organization became a reflection of his leadership.    

He did not draft Dahlin btw, he was gone before that.  

Because of his massive failure with the tank, and because of the long term negative effects it has had, I rate Murray as the worst GM that the Sabres ever had.   He set the team back despite being given full reign on the tank.  He was never hired to any position in the NHL after his failed tenure in Buffalo.  He was a product of nepotism and could only be considered a massive fail.  

I actually prefer Adams over Murray.  I prefer anybody over Murray.  

[Pimlach]

29 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

I don’t think the exact same thing.  Eichel was not even close to the player and even person McDavid is.  Because of Eichel’s personality we got rid of a great leader so it could be “Eichel’s” team.  I don’t think we would’ve had to do the same if we landed McDavid.  
Eichel was a bad teammate at times.  McDavid is a great one. 

Ok,  Both Eichel and Reinhart were probably less mature than McDavid. That may be true   

They both needed better people around them.  But even then, they blew off the vets that we had.   

The Sabres did not get rid of ROR because of Eichels personality.  Where did you hear that?   They got rid of ROR because of Terry’s personality.   

Edited Sunday at 03:21 PM by Pimlach

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Ok,  Both Eichel and Reinhart were probably less mature than McDavid. That may be true   

They both needed better people around them.  But even then, they blew off the vets that we had.   

The Sabres did not get rid of ROR because of Eichels personality.  Where did you hear that?   They got rid of ROR because of Terry’s personality.   

Yet to see any evidence that Reinhart was a problem at any point. 

[SwampD]

5 hours ago, Stoner said:

These guys put me to sleep last night. Now that I'm awake way too early I think I'll watch again.

Was it any more riveting after a good night’s rest?

[Stoner]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Was it any more riveting after a good night’s rest?

No. I fell asleep again. I really want to agsorb what they said. Maybe about 2 this afternoon after lunch. I also started to listen to Fairchild or Fairburn and that knocked my ass out too.

[Standing Room Smoking Cigs]

Has anyone floated Mark Hunter as POHO? He seems to have an established record of putting a decent OHL team on the ice for the last 20 years. 

[Stoner]

Just now, Standing Room Smoking Cigs said:

Has anyone floated Mark Hunter as POHO? He seems to have an established record of putting a decent OHL team on the ice for the last 20 years. 

Not sure. But you have the best handle on SabreSpace!

[Flashsabre]

From the Buffalo News for those of us that can’t read it:

”

Will Adams remain as general manager?
The Sabres' 79 standings points under Ruff were five fewer than last season and 12 fewer than 2022-23 when the club came within one win of a playoff berth. Their .477 points percentage during his five seasons is 25th out of 32 teams. The longest-tenured general manager since Darcy Regier has been in charge during winless streaks spanning 18 games, 13 games, eight games, seven games and three of six games. Adams laid out how the conversation with his owner may unfold.

"It's not good enough," the Clarence native acknowledged. "I believe we should be a playoff team right now, and we failed. It's owning that, taking my responsibility for that, and then, moving past that and saying, 'Here's how I see us improving and what we can do to fix it.' So, as always, just being very honest in my conversations with Terry to say where I think that I've made mistakes and where I think that we can fix certain things and that's what I'll do.

"I do believe we're closer than farther (from winning), but the words are the words. We have to win hockey games, and I understand that.'"

The tone and messaging from Adams' end-of-season news conference was vastly different than one year ago after he fired Don Granato. Adams and his players called for more structure and accountability. They explained a different voice and approach were needed. A few days later, Ruff signed a two-year contract to return as coach of the Sabres.

The coach isn't taking the fall after the Sabres finished 36-39-7 and ranked 30th in the NHL in goals allowed per game. Ruff took ownership of his role in their monthlong winless streak, telling reporters that he's still "angry" that, three decades into his coaching career, he took too long to fix his team's play. They weren't mathematically eliminated until their 77th game, but there was relatively no chance for them to overcome their slump, either. Adams confirmed that Ruff will return in his role despite Buffalo allowing more goals and winning fewer games than it did in Granato's final season.

Changes are expected to the coaching and support staffs, as well as the hockey operations department, two sources familiar with the situation who spoke to The News on the condition as to protect their standing in the organization. Adams didn't take the opportunity to criticize the assistant coaches running his underperforming power play or penalty kill. He didn't express concerns about his strength and conditioning staff, either, even though soft-tissue injuries and marginal improvement from some young players may lead to changes in that department. There was no mention of no-trade protection blocking his ability to acquire players, specifically a right-hand defense partner for Owen Power, and Adams did not call out anyone on his team for failing to protect each other after blindside hits.

Instead, Adams pointed the finger at himself.

"I think that there’s a frustration out of all of us that we’re not where we expected to be and where I believe we should be based on just going down the roster and what you look at on paper," Adams said. "There’s a lot of things that happen through the year that can explain why we ended up where we did and we have to fix that. ... I guess that’s the part that I just see us needing to take a step forward. And you’re right, ultimately that’s on me and I’ll do everything I can to fix it.”

There was improvement in some areas this season. The Sabres were third in the NHL in 5-on-5 goals scored. Tage Thompson produced 44 goals, while Alex Tuch tied a career high (36), JJ Peterka chipped in 27 goals, Jason Zucker had 21 goals and Ryan McLeod scored 20. Rasmus Dahlin would have received votes for the Norris Trophy if the team made the playoffs. The 25-year-old defenseman had 17 goals with 66 points while, analytically, he rated as one of the best at his position. Jiri Kulich, a 20-year-old rookie, emerged as a reliable center who could handle difficult matchups. The Sabres' recent drafts have looked stronger by the day with potential NHL players found in almost every round.

Buffalo went 23-15-3 at home, scored the most first-period goals in the league following a season in which it was plagued by bad starts and won nine of its last 14 games. Those achievements were overshadowed by regression in other areas, particularly team defense, penalty-killing and, too often, goaltending. The turnover-filled games, lack of experienced leaders, poor defending, marginal progress from high-end young players, blockbuster trade involving a prominent player and non-existent team-wide toughness raised more questions about Adams' decisions over the past two seasons.

"We have to win," said Adams. "And we know that. I know that. The players know that. That's the only thing that's going to really matter at the end of the day."

Adams didn't do enough before the trade deadline in 2022-23 to help his team make the playoffs, and he acknowledged Saturday that he's failed to put the right veteran defenseman next to Power, who is three years and 242 games into his career.

Zach Benson has only 21 goals with 58 points in 146 games since he was awarded a spot on the NHL roster at 18 years old, only a few months after he was drafted 13th overall. Ruff retained the defense and goaltending coaches from Granato's staff. Mattias Samuelsson and Dylan Cozens were thrust into leadership roles too soon. Both have plateaued since signing long-term contract extensions, and the latter was eventually dealt for Josh Norris. The 25-year-old center tore an oblique muscle with Ottawa, returned to the lineup one month later, then reaggravated the injury in his third game with Buffalo, before he sat out the rest of the season.

Adams had no experience in a high-ranking hockey operations role when he was promoted from vice president of business operations to general manager in June 2020. He didn't hire any managers with experience until the spring of 2021 when he brought in his associate general manager Jason Karmanos, who is based in Pittsburgh and does not make regular trips to Rochester. The Amerks have been a bright spot in Adams' tenure, as they have won while developing prospects into NHLers.

Seth Appert led them to three consecutive playoff appearances, including a trip to the Eastern Conference final, and the Sabres assistant coach's replacement, Michael Leone, guided Rochester to second place in the North Division this season. Aside from Karmanos and head of analytics Sam Ventura, most of Buffalo's recent hockey operations hires had no experience in their current roles.

There's no way to correct some of the decisions that were made, but some of Adams' actions over the past 12 months reflect a shift in his philosophy. The Sabres eventually pivoted from their initial plan to have talented goalie prospect Devon Levi make the immediate jump to the NHL without games in Rochester. Matt Savoie, a 2022 first-round draft pick, got traded last July for McLeod, who reached career highs in goals, assists, points, average time on ice and faceoff win percentage. Casey Mittelstadt was traded for Bowen Byram, even though Mittelstadt expressed a desire to stay in Buffalo long-term. Cozens was swapped for Norris and Kulich is joining the Amerks this week to continue his development in the playoffs. Buffalo finally began to acquire impactful NHLers in trades and free agency, specifically McLeod and Zucker.

This is another pivotal summer for the Sabres. Peterka, Byram, Levi and McLeod are restricted free agents. Ukko Pekka Luukkonen, their No. 1 goalie, is suddenly on the hot seat, though Adams and Ruff noted that the team's turnovers were the primary issue. Buffalo is prioritizing a contract extension for Tuch, who is eligible to sign July 1 with one year remaining on his current deal. Adams expects to spend near the $95.5 million salary-cap ceiling, but the next step of the offseason is a difficult conversation with the man who's tired of waiting for his spending to produce a winner.

"What I can tell you, is I talk to Terry every day," said Adams. "He's as frustrated as I am with the way the season went and where we are. And I'm certainly sure that he'll be asking me a lot of hard questions and why we are where we are and where do we go from here. But that's just kind of the normal process that we go through."

[Flashsabre]

4 minutes ago, Standing Room Smoking Cigs said:

Has anyone floated Mark Hunter as POHO? He seems to have an established record of putting a decent OHL team on the ice for the last 20 years. 

The Hunters have such a good setup in London that I doubt he drops it to be a yes man to Terry. He would be a good choice for sure though. Great evaluator of talent. When the Leafs picked Dubas over Hunter as GM it set them back in my mind.

[Standing Room Smoking Cigs]

1 minute ago, Flashsabre said:

The Hunters have such a good setup in London that I doubt he drops it to be a yes man to Terry. He would be a good choice for sure though. Great evaluator of talent. When the Leafs picked Dubas over Hunter as GM it set them back in my mind.

Yeah, I agree but he is Muckler 2.0 and doesn't seem to kowtow. Pegula would have to bend but what else has he left. The Labatt Centre is the cream of the crop in the OHL and he knows how to build a team that gets community interested. I think he would mesh well with Lindy and bringing in his own GM could probably tweak the roster, talent is there, but sometimes subtraction of some talent is a positive, it worked for Boston for years and seemingly now St. Louis. 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, pastajoe said:

Wrong, Murray was willing to take big swings to try to improve the team. It’s mind boggling that a team with Eichel, Reinhart, O’Reilly, Kane, and Dahlin couldn’t make the playoffs. Unfortunately nobody knew about Lehner’s issues, and we got the worst couple of years of his career.

I’d much rather have a GM like Murray than someone like Adams who clutches his draft picks like they’re his own kids.

The team never had O'Reilly AND Dahlin.  Winning the lottery in '18 gave Botterill "flexibility" in how he could retool the team.

As @Pimlach stated, Murray never could build a cohesive team because he didn't give 2 rat's bippies about the chemistry of a cohesive team.  He saw the players as horses that you could just put into the stall and have them perform.  He couldn't care less about anything other than their physical attributes.  He didn't care that Bogosian and Kane were jerks that would not be good leaders for very young players.  He didn't care that Lehner had some psychological issues that would be exacerbated should he be out of the lineup for a long time due to injuries.  

He apparently did nothing to help smooth over the owners' frustrations at his brand new established toy getting drunk and crashing his truck into a donut shop as pretty much his very first action after signing a big LT contract.  Murray was gone by then, but when that player started publicly discussing how he'd lost his love of hockey; that pretty much sealed the deal that he'd be gone now that his new GM had this newly found flexibility.

After he couldn't get the coach he wanted to land, he chose a coach that micromanaged the game and gave players 8 whiteboards worth of stuff to be thinking about in game every game.  JUST the thing young players need when trying to adjust to the speed of the NHL game vs NCAA or juniors.

So, yeah, Murray took big swings.  But again, he never saw the players as people and thusly he was never going to build a winner.  Though had the team not changed directions 2-3 times since; they almost definitely would've made the playoffs by now once or twice.  Oh, boy, the Sabres could've been the current version of the Aisles.  (Yeah, it's better than what WE have; but not exactly even remotely ideal.)  But is THAT, or what Botterill built, in any way shape or form something we should "much rather have?"  No.  They're all giving us #### sandwiches.  Personally, would much rather have none of the above.

[French Collection]

48 minutes ago, Standing Room Smoking Cigs said:

Has anyone floated Mark Hunter as POHO? He seems to have an established record of putting a decent OHL team on the ice for the last 20 years. 

He had a few years as Leafs AGM under Lou but left when Dumbass got the job. A friend who lives near London said that Hunter didn’t like the city and commuted to Toronto almost every day. I think he was their draft guru at the time.

Can’t deny his success in the OHL.

[Ogelthorpe]

4 hours ago, pastajoe said:

Wrong, Murray was willing to take big swings to try to improve the team. It’s mind boggling that a team with Eichel, Reinhart, O’Reilly, Kane, and Dahlin couldn’t make the playoffs. Unfortunately nobody knew about Lehner’s issues, and we got the worst couple of years of his career.

I’d much rather have a GM like Murray than someone like Adams who clutches his draft picks like they’re his own kids.

Murray was not afraid to make moves like Adams is. Which I like. Unfortunately he just went after the wrong people. Ie: lehner, Bogosian, Kane, o'reilly.

Edited Sunday at 05:52 PM by Ogelthorpe
Spelling

[Flashsabre]

Buffalo News article on seasons ticket holders. Glad to see it and hope it embarrasses Terry into real change: 

 

“As the latest season ended Thursday with the team outside the postseason, The Buffalo News checked in with some of the Sabres’ most dedicated fans: their season ticket holders. They invest many hours − and thousands of dollars − to attend up to 41 regular-season games, year after year, without a playoff payoff at the end.

Despite enduring yet another disappointing Sabres campaign, some season ticket holders say they’re not going anywhere.

“I want to be there at the first playoff game, whenever that is, and I know I definitely will regret it if I don’t have tickets,” said Charles Killian, who just wrapped his 19th year as a season ticket holder.

This past year was finally too much for others who say they are giving up their seats. Kim Windschitl said she has come to believe the organization lacks urgency.

“I feel bad for even saying this, but it just didn’t seem like they really cared. So, if they really didn’t seem to care, why should I really care? Why should I be investing this money and paying for parking and paying for food?” said the East Amherst resident, who had season tickets with her husband, Brian, the past three years. “Why am I doing that? I felt like I cared more than they did.”

As the drought hits a 14th season − extending the team’s dubious league record − we’re returning to ask this bottom-line question: Are you staying married to the Sabres or getting a divorce?”

[Ogelthorpe]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

All Murray did was waste assets with big and desperate swings.   He lacked an understanding of people and of team chemistry.  He tanked and got two premium picks the result was a miserable losing team.  His team was always fractured, on the ice annd in the FO,  he created a big  mess.  He left Rochester in bad shape too.  The bad culture that plagues this team even today is a remnant of Murray that has yet to be exercised.   

Tanking and drafting Reinhart and Eichel deserves ZERO credit.  Anyone could do that.  

OReily was a good player, and even he was troubled when he got here.  

Bringing in Kane and Bogo was a terrible idea.  Winnipeg literally dumped two selfish troublemakers onto Murray.  The Jets could not wait to get rid of these two clowns fast enough.  The Jets improved without them, and Buffalo went nowhere. 

If anyone should have known about Lehner, it would be Murray.  He knew him in Ottawa and the guy was a flake even then. 

Murray overpaid for most of these acquisitions too.   

Murray was not a leader.  He was not a people person.  He was toxic and the entire organization became a reflection of his leadership.    

He did not draft Dahlin btw, he was gone before that.  

Because of his massive failure with the tank, and because of the long term negative effects it has had, I rate Murray as the worst GM that the Sabres ever had.   He set the team back despite being given full reign on the tank.  He was never hired to any position in the NHL after his failed tenure in Buffalo.  He was a product of nepotism and could only be considered a massive fail.  

I actually prefer Adams over Murray.  I prefer anybody over Murray.  

Yes, let's have a gm instead who does nothing for 5 years. Murray chose the wrong people but atleast he swung the bat instead of striking out looking 

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Yes, let's have a gm instead who does nothing for 5 years. Murray chose the wrong people but atleast he swung the bat instead of striking out looking 

Why does it have to be an either or?  Why can't it be a NEITHER and instead actually get a competent (at a minimum) or excellent GM?

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Yes, let's have a gm instead who does nothing for 5 years. Murray chose the wrong people but atleast he swung the bat instead of striking out looking 

Failure is failure whether you make a lot of moves that don’t work out or take a more passive approach and let things play out and see how they work out. 

The issue is more about the wisdom of your decisions, not the quantity of them.

Not every personal decision is going to work out for any GM, even the best of them. In the end, the scorecard is easy tabulate. What is your record. 

 

[Ogelthorpe]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Why does it have to be an either or?  Why can't it be a NEITHER and instead actually get a competent (at a minimum) or excellent GM?

Good point

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Failure is failure whether you make a lot of moves that don’t work out or take a more passive approach and let things play out and see how they work out. 

The issue is more about the wisdom of your decisions, not the quantity of them.

Not every personal decision is going to work out for any GM, even the best of them. In the end, the scorecard is easy tabulate. What is your record. 

 

All good points

[Dr. Who]

51 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Murray was not afraid to make moves like Adams is. Which I like. Unfortunately he just went after the wrong people. Ie: lehner, Bogosian, Kane, o'reilly.

Imo, he is an autistic personality. I enjoyed his eccentricity in a vacuum, but you can't make complex prudential judgments without awareness of the human element.

[Believer]

My first comments after watching this postseason’s video of Adams and Ruff.

Went back and watched Adam’s postseason video last year for comparison.

Imo, Adams was more upbeat and confident last year even after firing Granato and before announcing a new coach (though he may have known Ruff was already signed)

This year, found his remarks flat in word, tone, and body language.

Left me with the impression he expects to be replaced as GM.

Will be shocked if Pegula stands pat. Will not be shocked if Pegula keeps Adams in some role.

Think the BN article posted in this thread presented a fair evaluation of Adams tenure.

Also, the BN article about season ticket holder reaction to another failure to make the playoffs is the kiss of death for Adams.

Bottomline for me, Adams was ill-suited for the GM role, inherited a mess, made a couple questionable decisions with Eichel and Reinhardt, built a roster too heavy on youth and lacking veterans, too small and soft, lacking toughness and physicality, and was too slow to react and make a major move in this “must win” season. Did a decent job drafting and developing players in Rochester. 

A fail overall.

 

Edited Sunday at 06:24 PM by Believer

[Pimlach]

27 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Murray was not afraid to make moves lO'Reilly is. Which I like. Unfortunately he just went after the wrong people. Ie: lehner, Bogosian, Kane, o'reilly.

You prefer any action over the slow and ineffective pace that Adams works at.  I can understand that, but I stop short of giving Murray credit for anything. I think he was the wrong guy for the job and I think he blew it.   

Murrays tenure is marked by him usurping power from his boss (LaFonatine) and then leading a tank that stripped the club down to bare studs with no signs of any Sabres past culture or pride.  He massively failed and when he was done he left  the cupboards bare in term of prospects and a farm system. 

Murray's tenure set the franchise back to a place it still has not recovered from.  That is more on Terry, either way we are still stuck in hockey hell.  

I understand your position but I could not rate Murray higher than even the ineffective Kevyn Adams, mainly because Murray was destructive.  

If Adams gets fired today I can at least say he left them in better shape that what he inherited, which was a Covid induced rebuild were he was directed to move out the teams highest paid star players and then gut and rebuild the organization.  

1 minute ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Yes, let's have a gm instead who does nothing for 5 years. Murray chose the wrong people but atleast he swung the bat instead of striking out looking 

You know I am not a fan of Adams, it is clear from the past two seasons that finishing this rebuild is over his head.  I just cannot ever get behind Murray. The baseball analogy is cute, but it doesn't change the fact that Murray massively failed and left the club worse off than when he started.  

Bottom line is Terry was there for all of it, so the blame lays at his feet.  

[Ogelthorpe]

18 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You prefer any action over the slow and ineffective pace that Adams works at.  I can understand that, but I stop short of giving Murray credit for anything. I think he was the wrong guy for the job and I think he blew it.   

Murrays tenure is marked by him usurping power from his boss (LaFonatine) and then leading a tank that stripped the club down to bare studs with no signs of any Sabres past culture or pride.  He massively failed and when he was done he left  the cupboards bare in term of prospects and a farm system. 

Murray's tenure set the franchise back to a place it still has not recovered from.  That is more on Terry, either way we are still stuck in hockey hell.  

I understand your position but I could not rate Murray higher than even the ineffective Kevyn Adams, mainly because Murray was destructive.  

If Adams gets fired today I can at least say he left them in better shape that what he inherited, which was a Covid induced rebuild were he was directed to move out the teams highest paid star players and then gut and rebuild the organization.  

You know I am not a fan of Adams, it is clear from the past two seasons that finishing this rebuild is over his head.  I just cannot ever get behind Murray. The baseball analogy is cute, but it doesn't change the fact that Murray massively failed and left the club worse off than when he started.  

Bottom line is Terry was there for all of it, so the blame lays at his feet.  

Again, all good points 👍

35 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Imo, he is an autistic personality. I enjoyed his eccentricity in a vacuum, but you can't make complex prudential judgments without awareness of the human element.

Agree, he chose the wrong people.  He went on talent alone not character 

[shrader]

1 hour ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Yes, let's have a gm instead who does nothing for 5 years. Murray chose the wrong people but atleast he swung the bat instead of striking out looking 

Mike Milbury liked to make moves too. There’s so much more to the job than whether or not you trade.