What to do with Norris?

[PromoTheRobot]

Shut him down and heal him up for next year.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Because teams need scoring and Norris can flat out snipe when he’s on the ice. 

When is he on the ice?

 

28 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Shut him down and heal him up for next year.

Just to let you know that he’s already shut down. 

[SpaceAlbatross]

I think we are gonna have to make room for someone like Nikita Novikov who also happens to be a Lefty. We need to get a RHD or two. We would instantly be playoff locks if the Sabres sent Power to live with Pronger for the offseason. Dahlin developed some nastiness after a few seasons and we really need Power to follow along. If Norris means we can’t keep Byram then I would ship him out. Re-sign Tuch and let the young guys develop and we already have the 5v5 scoring we just need the PP scoring to follow suite. 

[PASabreFan]

Norri. Ras can take a woodworking class this summer.

[JP51]

At this point I take the risk and not trade him... on paper (and I mean on paper performance could change my mind) he has top 6 skills , getting a Top 6 F for this team doesnt come easy. To me you take your chances with the understanding he is likely to be out at times... but unless you are getting a top 6F or Top 4 D for him I think you gotta see what you got. 

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Because teams need scoring and Norris can flat out snipe when he’s on the ice. 

You may not be aware of it but you just made a potent argument to keep him. If as a replacement to Cozens he upgrades the 2C position, then that would be a better place to be in. The next issue if that situation materializes is who are going to be his wingers? There are a number of options to work with. 

 

[JP51]

44 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You may not be aware of it but you just made a potent argument to keep him. If as a replacement to Cozens he upgrades the 2C position, then that would be a better place to be in. The next issue if that situation materializes is who are going to be his wingers? There are a number of options to work with. 

 

I think that is where I am at... you just traded DC to get him... I would at least want to see what he is bringing before you bail...  not saying that he doesnt become a trade piece eventually and isnt hurt all the time... but I think we gotta find out.  Getting a 2C top 6 guy is difficult especially in our situation... sometimes you gotta take a risk and see it thru...  that being said... if someone is coming at us with a top 3 player and wants him as part of a deal... he certainly isnt untouchable ... but that isnt likely to happen. 

[rickshaw]

People in here talking like Norris would be covered by other teams? He’s made of glass. Maybe we luck out and he’s never hurt again or we are the team that traded for glass. 

[Thorny]

21 hours ago, Jorcus said:

He should be the center for Tage Thompson. Thompson should have legit line mates that are a threat to score so the defense and the goalie are not shading to him all the time. With Norris and Peterka or even Zucker he has a solid chance of getting a goal scoring title. Pushing Yuri down a line would help him too as he would face 2nd or 3rd line defenders. 

As far as the injuries go you just take your chances. Chychrun just signed for 9 mil per year with many missed games over the years.  A lot of worry about Byram when he came over because of the head hit. He has 80 games this year. 

I don’t like those two together because both have truly awful primary assist rates

i guess if you stick Benson on the other wing. But asking a lot of a single distributor 

Also, I like how we are supposedly at “just take your chances” on the injury front 

heck of a strategy lol 

- - - 

Chychrun and Byram weren’t pencilled in as the team’s 1c either haha, nor have close to the injury history 

Oh, whatever 

Edited April 15 by Thorner

[Thorny]

20 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I realize that with the bolded you are making a practical statement.  I agree with what you have written.  But man, is this what it has come to?  Our GM is on the verge of joining a very dubious group of only 6-7 GM's in the modern history of the league who have been given a 6th season with a team after missing the playoffs in their first 5 seasons, and his big trade acquisition, who has 5 years left at $7.95 million per season, can't be counted on and we should just consider it a bonus if he remains healthy. 

The absurdity of Adams (and Ruff) even being considered for 25-26, cannot be overstated. 

Thank you 

The whole thing has jumped the shark, to the extent fielding logical arguments feels both misplaced and a waste of time. 

The conflict of interest is too extreme 

Like, that’s our pencilled in 1C. “Eh, just see what happens. Hope for the best, maybe he’ll play, just mark him down for a write off though him and his 8 million when we don’t spend”. Plot lost. 

Edited April 15 by Thorner

[Thorny]

20 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 Vancouver was interested in Norris, I doubt they move EP40, but how about Tom Willander (signed to an ELC) and a 2026 2nd Round Pick?

 

Also word is that Norris would have been playing if the Sabres had been in legitimate contention. 

 

 

So he’s able to go but they are holding back to sell him as the offseason addition 

[Thorny]

16 hours ago, JohnC said:

When is he on the ice?

 

Just to let you know that he’s already shut down. 

Shut him down from what? Not playing? Right lol 

Like, f*ckin: 

F*CK

[Jorcus]

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

I don’t like those two together because both have truly awful primary assist rates

i guess if you stick Benson on the other wing. But asking a lot of a single distributor 

Also, I like how we are supposedly at “just take your chances” on the injury front 

heck of a strategy lol 

- - - 

Chychrun and Byram weren’t pencilled in as the team’s 1c either haha, nor have close to the injury history 

Oh, whatever 

I just don't think Thompson should have to play with a rookie and a guy who can't score goals. He should play with very good NHL players. I think a line with Norris and Peterka will work fine. If you don't like Norris then Thompson is center again with Tuch and Peterka. Then Norris has to carry Quinn around for a right wing if they keep him. Maybe that would work I have my doubts about Quinn.

We had a number 1 center with an injury who we traded away. Vegas took a chance I would say?

[Thorny]

24 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

I just don't think Thompson should have to play with a rookie and a guy who can't score goals. He should play with very good NHL players. I think a line with Norris and Peterka will work fine. If you don't like Norris then Thompson is center again with Tuch and Peterka. Then Norris has to carry Quinn around for a right wing if they keep him. Maybe that would work I have my doubts about Quinn.

We had a number 1 center with an injury who we traded away. Vegas took a chance I would say?

Comparing Norris to Eichel doesn’t serve your argument both ability wise (obviously) or healthy wise (even with Jack’s history Norris’s was/is significantly worse). People undersell the fact Norris has played like under 60% of games.

And again, Eichel was the superstar piece that makes the difference between good and great. The sabres counting on Norris to achieve “passable” at the risk of 15 years is a farce 

I’m not opposed to Thompson back at C, tbh, he’s our best C. If he’s not:

Benson - McLeod - Thompson

Peterka - Norris - Tuch

[dudacek]

I think another thing being lost is that it's not really about where Norris ranks on the depth chart.

It's about whether or not he can help this team more than Dylan Cozens did.

i don't think people talk enough about the hockey rationale behind this trade. 

I think @Thorner tapped into something interesting here that no one has really followed up on: the Sabres seem focused on centres who are positionally sound, manage the puck, and can finish, as opposed to the more stereotypical puck carrier/puck distributor; A lot of that could be due to the unusual amount of emphasis they've placed on defencemen who can move and distribute, but who also need to be covered.

Dylan Cozens was killing the Sabres with transition turnovers and defensive reads that just couldn't be absorbed in the Sabres high-risk blueline-led system. But he theoretically added some ES offence, some edge and some puck-carrying ability to the middle of an Ottawa forward corps that needed it.

Josh Norris, meanwhile, theoretically added some ES defence, some puck management predictability, and some special teams ability to the middle of a Buffalo forward corps that needed it.

His addition fits with the way they've molded Kulich, the move to replace Mittelstadt with McLeod and the decision to slide Thompson to the wing where he has more freedom to freelance and make mistakes.

 

 

Edited April 15 by dudacek

[Thorny]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think another thing being lost is that it's not really about where Norris ranks on the depth chart.

It's about whether or not he can help this team more than Dylan Cozens did.

i don't think people talk enough about the hockey rationale behind this trade. 

I think @Thorner tapped into something interesting here that no one has really followed up on: the Sabres seem focused on centres who are positionally sound, manage the puck, and can finish, as opposed to the more stereotypical puck carrier/puck distributor; A lot of that could be due to the unusual amount of emphasis they've placed on defencemen who can move and distribute, but who also need to be covered.

Dylan Cozens was killing the Sabres with transition turnovers and defensive reads that just couldn't be absorbed in the Sabres high-risk blueline-led system. But he theoretically added some ES offence, some edge and some puck-carrying ability to the middle of an Ottawa forward corps that needed it.

Josh Norris, meanwhile, theoretically added some ES defence, some puck management predictability, and some special teams ability to the middle of a Buffalo forward corps that needed it.

His addition fits with the way they've molded Kulich, the move to replace Mittelstadt with McLeod and the decision to slide Thompson to the wing where he has more freedom to freelance and make mistakes.

 

 

And they work closely with dev in Rochester too, right? Indications are they have focused on moving Östlund’s game in this direction as well, when playmaking has generally been seen as his stand out attribute 

[Night Train]

2 more exhibition games and then 6 months of golf...it's a good life for the Sabres. 

Then Adams gives his AI version of the Sabres... sitting pat with expected improvement. 

 Damn palm trees. 

 

 

[Jorcus]

2 hours ago, Thorner said:

Comparing Norris to Eichel doesn’t serve your argument both ability wise (obviously) or healthy wise (even with Jack’s history Norris’s was/is significantly worse). People undersell the fact Norris has played like under 60% of games.

And again, Eichel was the superstar piece that makes the difference between good and great. The sabres counting on Norris to achieve “passable” at the risk of 15 years is a farce 

I’m not opposed to Thompson back at C, tbh, he’s our best C. If he’s not:

Benson - McLeod - Thompson

Peterka - Norris - Tuch

 

I was giving examples of players who were traded for with injury histories. You did not like my first two examples so I gave a third where the risk reward was a magnitude higher for Vegas than what Cozens for Norris is. All NHL players are vulnerable to injury. That is the taking chances point. If you don't like Norris or think we gave up too much for him that is one thing. If it's because Adams took a risk on a player with past injuries I would say many other Gm's do. It might work it might not. From what I have read about his shoulder it was the kind of thing was not treated the way it was supposed to be until the last surgery.   

https://www.nhl.com/news/senators-josh-norris-grateful-to-be-back-after-shoulder-surgeries

The following is the type of surgical treatments.

 

We can't only make trades for perfectly healthy people. 

[Jorcus]

49 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think another thing being lost is that it's not really about where Norris ranks on the depth chart.

It's about whether or not he can help this team more than Dylan Cozens did.

i don't think people talk enough about the hockey rationale behind this trade. 

I think @Thorner tapped into something interesting here that no one has really followed up on: the Sabres seem focused on centres who are positionally sound, manage the puck, and can finish, as opposed to the more stereotypical puck carrier/puck distributor; A lot of that could be due to the unusual amount of emphasis they've placed on defencemen who can move and distribute, but who also need to be covered.

Dylan Cozens was killing the Sabres with transition turnovers and defensive reads that just couldn't be absorbed in the Sabres high-risk blueline-led system. But he theoretically added some ES offence, some edge and some puck-carrying ability to the middle of an Ottawa forward corps that needed it.

Josh Norris, meanwhile, theoretically added some ES defence, some puck management predictability, and some special teams ability to the middle of a Buffalo forward corps that needed it.

His addition fits with the way they've molded Kulich, the move to replace Mittelstadt with McLeod and the decision to slide Thompson to the wing where he has more freedom to freelance and make mistakes.

 

 

One other thing in the profile is Norris is another player with high end speed. He is faster than McCloud. 

[dudacek]

37 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

One other thing in the profile is Norris is another player with high end speed. He is faster than McCloud. 

Yep, although that seems to be something the Sabres hold in high value in all positions.

The thing I hear Lindy harp on most of all is puck management. I expect that — more than physicality, or handedness or defensive aptitude — to be the theme of the players they add and subtract this summer.

Norris for Cozens is the obvious example, but the Bernard-Docker for Jokiharju flip is dramatic in that area.

Clifton, Quinn and Samuelsson probably the next three on the list in terms of coughing it up?

I mean Thompson, Dahlin and Power do it as well, but for those three, the number of positive passes far outweighs the negative.

Edited April 15 by dudacek

[mjd1001]

23 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

One other thing in the profile is Norris is another player with high end speed. He is faster than McCloud. 

I would say they are very close, but I'd put McLeod as slightly faster actually.

Using available data,  If you go over their careers, in terms of absolute top speed, McLeod wins (23.83 to 23.76).  

If you also look at how many 'speed bursts" over 20 mph per game played, McLeod wins there too over the last 3 years: 2.86 per game for Norris, 3.77 per game for Mcleod.

[kas23]

I should know better by now, but I’m completely miffed that a GM could trade for $7.95M in damaged goods and there’s no repercussions. Was this truly the best trade out there? Would’ve been better to waive Cozens. 

[HumanSlinky39]

I don't know, wrap him in bubble wrap?

[apuszczalowski]

He's not going anywhere

That being said, no one (not even Tage or Rasmus) should be immune to being moved down the roster if theres better options out there.

This offseason should be all about getting players that can move Norris down the roster on paper and hope he plays himself into a position where the team has to many talented options at every position. Every year this franchise seems to not want to rock the boat or block prospects and current players from moving up and just try to get lowere players to fill and improve the bottom of the roster.

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

He's not going anywhere

That being said, no one (not even Tage or Rasmus) should be immune to being moved down the roster if theres better options out there.

This offseason should be all about getting players that can move Norris down the roster on paper and hope he plays himself into a position where the team has to many talented options at every position. Every year this franchise seems to not want to rock the boat or block prospects and current players from moving up and just try to get lowere players to fill and improve the bottom of the roster.

Please, tell me what better options are there for Rasmus Dahlin or Tage Thompson for that matter.