How would you retool this team this summer?

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Here's what I suspect will ultimately happen:

Adams stays as GM and says he believes in the guys in the room. Talks about how UPL didn't have the year he wanted but the team still believes in him and he's proven he can be a good goalie. Then he talks about how talented Norris is and how much he brings to the team. He'll go on about how getting him back is going to feel like adding a major piece to the team blah blah blah. He'll point to this recent win streak as proof that the team he assembled can be a playoff team if they play the right way blah blah blah. There won't be any major deals or signings. We're going to bring back Reimer and will into next season with him backing up UPL. The team will look exactly the same on opening night. 

Are you Adams speech writer? 

[dudacek]

I’m curious what “running it back” means to you guys.

Over the past 2 years (2023 trade deadline) the Sabres have dumped:

Cozens, Jokiharju, Gilbert, Aube-Kubel, Skinner, Olofsson, Okposo, Girgensons, Johnson, Robinson, Jost, Lyubushkin, Asplund, Mittelstadt, Anderson, Comrie, Granato and Christie

and brought in:

Norris, Bernard-Docker, Kulich, Zucker, McLeod, Malenstyn, Lafferty, Aube-Kubel, Gilbert, Reimer, Byram, Robinson, Benson, Johnson, Clifton, Greenway, Ruff and Appert

I think there are 10 guys still here from before that time:

Thompson, Dahlin, Tuch, Quinn, Peterka, Krebs, Power, Samuelsson, Bryson, UPL (plus Bales, Ellis and Wilford)? Quinn Peterka and Power were rookies that 2023 season.

Most here think Adams is guilty of running it back despite turning over more than half the roster and replacing the head coach. I kinda agree.

But I’m asking this as a serious question: What would he have to do this summer in order to have you say “at least he didn’t run it back”.

 

Edited yesterday at 04:05 PM by dudacek

[dudacek]

Trying to answer my own question, is it a quality thing, as opposed to quantity?

It feels like he’s only made two moves involving buying ‘name’ players (Norris, Byram) and neither of those deals were structured or timed in a way that excited the fan base. Since the initial post-Ralph sell-off, everything has felt methodical, around the edges and ‘he did what?’, at least at the time of the moves.

Are we in desperate need of something that gives off Tim Murray trading for O’Reilly or signing Okposo vibes?

[Thorner]

On 4/11/2025 at 9:40 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

That’s the issue with signing Marner even if he’d come here.  It’s nearly impossible to make the money work when also trying to fix holes in the rest of the roster.

My gosh. He had it down to needing to replace a LHD for 4.2 million. If that’s the obstacle to signing Marner, it’s not an obstacle at all 

We’ve lost the plot lol 

online GM simulator 

“It just can’t be done!” 

this team needs to win, desperately 

For the sake of the psyche 

[DarthEbriate]

14 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Trying to answer my own question, is it a quality thing, as opposed to quantity?

There's turnover every year, but my thought on the running it back is Adams' ongoing to do list that doesn't get done:

1) An NHL 1A/1B goalie tandem, (and if you happen to have an above-average 1B like Reimer -- don't waive him, and don't let him go three weeks without a start - which is more a Ruff problem)

2) Still need the actual veteran complementary defensive d-man with some brawn to play with Power.

3) Still the youngest team in the league.

4) Still don't have a winger in the top 6 (sometimes Zucker, but he's often LW3) who goes to the net and stays there. Tuch occasionally; Benson yes, but he's more of a distributor than net-crasher.

5) Still don't have anyone who is a long-term part of the team who is the enforcer/addresser of misdeeds. Maybe it's Krebs... but no one in the league worries about Krebs. It should be Muel with an A and 220#+ and term, but he's not that guy.   Edit: Tuch does address things (sometimes), but he's still not a guy with an edge. They need a big meanie-head somewhere in the bottom 6 or d-corps. Someone who's going to join Benson in every fracas because they enjoy it.

Edited yesterday at 04:08 PM by DarthEbriate

[Thorner]

19 hours ago, Bangarang said:

Here's what I suspect will ultimately happen:

Adams stays as GM and says he believes in the guys in the room. Talks about how UPL didn't have the year he wanted but the team still believes in him and he's proven he can be a good goalie. Then he talks about how talented Norris is and how much he brings to the team. He'll go on about how getting him back is going to feel like adding a major piece to the team blah blah blah. He'll point to this recent win streak as proof that the team he assembled can be a playoff team if they play the right way blah blah blah. There won't be any major deals or signings. We're going to bring back Reimer and will into next season with him backing up UPL. The team will look exactly the same on opening night. 

Likely 

[Thorner]

40 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I’m curious what “running it back” means to you guys.

Over the past 2 years (2023 trade deadline) the Sabres have dumped:

Cozens, Jokiharju, Gilbert, Aube-Kubel, Skinner, Olofsson, Okposo, Girgensons, Johnson, Robinson, Jost, Lyubushkin, Asplund, Mittelstadt, Anderson, Comrie, Granato and Christie

and brought in:

Norris, Bernard-Docker, Kulich, Zucker, McLeod, Malenstyn, Lafferty, Aube-Kubel, Gilbert, Reimer, Byram, Robinson, Benson, Johnson, Clifton, Greenway, Ruff and Appert

I think there are 10 guys still here from before that time:

Thompson, Dahlin, Tuch, Quinn, Peterka, Krebs, Power, Samuelsson, Bryson, UPL (plus Bales, Ellis and Wilford)? Quinn Peterka and Power were rookies that 2023 season.

Most here think Adams is guilty of running it back despite turning over more than half the roster and replacing the head coach. I kinda agree.

But I’m asking this is a serious question: What would he have to do this summer in order to have you say “at least he didn’t run it back”.

 

The essence of “run back” need not be so literal. Most teams change at least like 6 guys every year just due to 4th liners and bottom pair players that almost always have high turnover rates. Backup goalie

that was exactly the messaging they tried to sneak through last summer; and hindsight need not apply, called it out at the time: they indeed tried to sell a “revamped 4th line” as if it was an avenue to success. It’s not. 

if our top 9 is: Thompson, Tuch, Peterka, Norris, Benson, Zucker, McLeod, Kulich, Quinn: it’s a run back 

Edited yesterday at 04:07 PM by Thorner

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, Thorner said:

The essence of “run back” need not be so literal. Most teams change at least like 6 guys every year just due to 4th liners and bottom pair players that almost always have high turnover rates. Backup goalie

if our top 9 is: Thompson, Tuch, Peterka, Norris, Tuch, Benson, McLeod, Kulich, Quinn: it’s a run back 

Although the idea of cloning Tuch is pretty creative and it does intrigue me.

[dudacek]

There's this narrative around Adams that he's done fine with the kids, but sucked in terms of pro personnel.

I don't know that the facts bear that out at all, at least at this exact point in time.

Adams has certainly been guilty of not acquiring enough veteran talent, but he's done OK with the acquisitions he has made, at least the bigger ones:

• Signing Zucker was a good move. Cost nothing but salary cap space and he's easily lived up to his contract.
• Trading Savoie for McLeod is looking to be a very good move. Not only has McLeod performed very well and filled a huge hole in the roster, but he's still young enough to remain a good fit long term
• Byram has performed well and is simply a better player than Mittelstadt.
• If I could add a Greenway clone for the 59th pick in this year's draft, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
• Locking up Tage to that deal was a very smart move
• It's unlikely he could have done better than Tuch on that contract in terms of a real NHL player, given the Eichel circumstances

They were not nearly enough, and the moves around the edges have been entirely inconsequential, but taken individually, these values have been fine.

Now let's look at the kids:

• Jack Quinn has thus far been a disappointment at #8. Rossi, Perfetti, Lundell, Jarvis and Holloway went with 5 of the next 6 picks and have all outperformed Jack this season.
• Trading up for Peterka in the 2nd might be the 2nd best move in Adams' tenure. He's 5th in goals and 6th in points from his draft year.
• Owen Power regressed this season. He hasn't fallen out of the conversation of "best player in the draft" but he has not developed to the extent you'd have hoped a 1st overall pick would have either.
• 15 players from the 2021 draft have hit the 100 game mark. 19 have put up 30 or more points. Isak Rosen isn't a bust yet, but it's certainly looking like there were better options at 13.
• The Sabres had 2 second-rounders that year. Kisakov is a bust. Poltapov is intriguing but remains a question. There certainly were better choices (Stankoven, Knies) available.
• Krebs hasn't measured up to the hopes placed on him in the Eichel trade.
• Same with Levi in the Reinhart trade, at least not yet.
• Signing Cozens to a 7-year $50M deal looks like a mistake.
• Signing Samuelsson to a 7-year $30M deal looks like a mistake.

Too early to tell on the rest, and there is still plenty of time to change the narrative, but so far, so not-good.

Edited yesterday at 05:20 PM by dudacek

[Thorner]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

There's this narrative around Adams that he's done fine with the kids, but sucked in terms of pro personnel.

I don't know that the facts bear that out at all, at least at this exact point in time.

Adams has certainly been guilty of not acquiring enough veteran talent, but he's done OK with the acquisitions he has made, at least the bigger ones:

• Signing Zucker was a good move. Cost nothing but salary cap space and he's easily lived up to his contract.
• Trading Savoie for McLeod is looking to be a very good move. Not only has McLeod performed very well and filled a huge hole in the roster, but he's still young enough to remain a good fit long term
• Byram has performed well and is simply a better player than Mittelstadt.
• If I could add a Greenway clone for the 59th pick in this year's draft, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
• Locking up Tage to that deal was a very smart move
• It's unlikely he could have done better than Tuch on that contract in terms of a real NHL player, given the Eichel circumstances

They were not nearly enough, and the moves around the edges have been entirely inconsequential, but taken individually, these values have been fine.

Now let's look at the kids:

• Jack Quinn has thus far been a disappointment at #8. Rossi, Perfetti, Lundell, Jarvis and Holloway went with 5 of the next 6 picks and have all outperformed Jack this season.
• Trading up for Peterka in the 2nd might be the 2nd best move in Adams' tenure. He's 5th in goals and 6th in points from his draft year.
• Owen Power regressed this season. He hasn't fallen out of the conversation of "best player in the draft" but he has not developed to the extent you'd have hoped a 1st overall pick would have either.
• 15 players from the 2021 draft have hit the 100 game mark. 19 have put up 30 or more points. Isak Rosen isn't a bust yet, but it's certainly looking like there were better options at 13.
• The Sabres had 2 second-rounders that year. Kisakov is a bust. Poltapov is intriguing but remains a question. There certainly were better choices (Stankoven, Knies) available.
• Krebs hasn't measured up to the hopes placed on him in the Eichel trade.
• Same with Levi in the Reinhart trade, at least not yet.
• Signing Cozens to a 7-year $50M deal looks like a mistake.
• Signing Samuelsson to a 7-year $30M deal looks like a mistake.

Too early to tell on the rest, and there is still plenty of time to change the narrative, but so far, so not-good.

Love this so much 

because adams’ errors are strategic. The plan of building through youth, exclusively, ESPECIALLLY in Buffalo when the plan was enacted after 9 years of losing, was always a disaster waiting to happen 

it’s not surprising that Adams does better when moving out of his “comfort zone”, because his comfort zone definitively sucks. Like, this has been borne out - his initial strategy was rank. 

The further he moves away from it (FINALLY trading Savoie for McLeod) he does better. Because even if it’s not his comfort zone, it’s so demonstrably proven to be the better way to build that it can’t help but find more success 

It comes back to what I say all the time and, frankly, it’s quite satisfying to see it borne out so accurately - it’s not hard to win in the nhl. Base level competence. The Buffalo Sabres trying to be innovative and trying their own way to do things is a farce. Total farce. 
 

Take your medicine. Field a playoff team. Just stop with this nonsense. The league is literally designed to promote parity. If they stop thinking they are smarter than the league, the league itself will carry them to “success” (playoffs), just by its own inherent mechanisms. How many times have I said it? Base level competence. All they do is get in their own way. 

Edited yesterday at 05:37 PM by Thorner

[sabremike]

[Thorner]

Ultimately it’s easier to convince someone to trade for your mystery box than it is to open up all your mystery boxes and actually reach satisfaction at your haul 

[elijah]

Defensive makeover and a capable UPL pairing, borderline starter quality. 

I don’t think you have to do much to the forwards unless you’re getting an elite guy for the shits and giggles of it 

 

Benson - Norris - Tage

JJP - Kulich - Tuch

Quinn - McLeod - Zucker

Greenway - Kozak - Krebs

(Another middle 6 guy for depth, bump Krebs to scratch if you have to when we’re all healthy). 

 

Dahlin - Byram

Power - XXX

Samuelsson - JBD/Clifton

 

UPL

XXX

 

That should be the bare minimum of an off-season right there. Even that bare minimum with a solid Power pair I think makes you a playoff team. 

If Adams decides to do more than the bare minimum (he won’t), you trade any combination of power/byram/quinn/prospects/picks and get a true difference maker in the top 6 or a borderline top RHD pairing guy and then replace the pieces you sent with free agents or prospects.

 

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, elijah said:

Defensive makeover and a capable UPL pairing, borderline starter quality. 

I don’t think you have to do much to the forwards unless you’re getting an elite guy for the shits and giggles of it 

 

Benson - Norris - Tage

JJP - Kulich - Tuch

Quinn - McLeod - Zucker

Greenway - Kozak - Krebs

(Another middle 6 guy for depth, bump Krebs to scratch if you have to when we’re all healthy). 

 

Dahlin - Byram

Power - XXX

Samuelsson - JBD/Clifton

 

UPL

XXX

 

That should be the bare minimum of an off-season right there. Even that bare minimum with a solid Power pair I think makes you a playoff team. 

If Adams decides to do more than the bare minimum (he won’t), you trade any combination of power/byram/quinn/prospects/picks and get a true difference maker in the top 6 or a borderline top RHD pairing guy and then replace the pieces you sent with free agents or prospects.

 

We have an incredible fanbase. 14 years no playoffs, a mid pack forward group by goal differential, currently sit in 26th, *11 points back* of the playoffs in Adams’ 5th year…

…and upgrading the F group that accounts for 67% of the skater component of our roster would just be for “shits and giggles” 

Add a #4 dman and a backup goalie and plan for playoffs 

Superstars can’t elevate a team, but we are confident the output of a #4 dman elevates the team from bottom of league to the playoffs 

Edited 23 hours ago by Thorner

[Thorner]

I’d love to make the playoffs. Just for shits and giggles 

[elijah]

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

if our top 9 is: Thompson, Tuch, Peterka, Norris, Benson, Zucker, McLeod, Kulich, Quinn: it’s a run back 

You’re 7th in goals while being 25th in PP%, and all of these guys analytically are positive players aside from Quinn. Running back the forwards not only isn’t a problem, but it may even be the right thing to do. 

You need to fix the goaltending situation, add a desperately needed Power pair who’s strong and reliable defensively, and fix the PP. There’s no shame in running back the forwards next year. 

[Thorner]

15 minutes ago, elijah said:

You’re 7th in goals while being 25th in PP%, and all of these guys analytically are positive players aside from Quinn. Running back the forwards not only isn’t a problem, but it may even be the right thing to do. 

You need to fix the goaltending situation, add a desperately needed Power pair who’s strong and reliable defensively, and fix the PP. There’s no shame in running back the forwards next year. 

Analytically break even, anyways. I always forget breaking even is the goal around here, cannot aim for higher 

Ya man. Just “fix” the pp. just by choice. Just snap your fingers 

just “fix” the GT. Even though we know that can’t happen. 

maybe try advancing your thoughts beyond the regurgitation of the surface level, tailgate focused fan groupthink of “the forwards are fine.”

there’s no shame in admitting you don’t really care about winning. You aren’t going from 26th to playoffs by adding a depth D man and calling it a day 

No one is falling for it, Kevyn 

Edited 23 hours ago by Thorner

[Thorner]

Breaking news! Extra, extra! 

The sabres are *13th* at 5v5 gf%, on the strength of a meaningless late season run! Fractionally ahead of the team in 17th. So theoretically on the precipice of non-playoff quality after a bad week.
 

but…13th! All these years of suffering were worth it! 

Don’t you DARE touch the “forward group” 

[elijah]

19 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Analytically break even, anyways. I always forget breaking even is the goal around here, cannot aim for higher 

Ya man. Just “fix” the pp. just by choice. Just snap your fingers 

just “fix” the GT. Even though we know that can’t happen. 

maybe try advancing your thoughts beyond the regurgitation of the surface level, tailgate focused fan groupthink of “the forwards are fine.”

there’s no shame in admitting you don’t really care about winning. You aren’t going from 26th to playoffs by adding a depth D man and calling it a day 

No one is falling for it, Kevyn 

If you want to upgrade the top 9 forwards the guy to upgrade is Jack Quinn. But Jack Quinn has also substantially improved without Dylan Cozens. 

As far as the power play, I’m sure some new assistant coaches might help. 

I’m not saying I’m content with the results we’re getting, but this team isn’t failing right now because of the forwards. The forwards have been mostly fine but are getting backed by 1 defensemen and no goalies. It’s not the forwards that have led us to a 14th embarrassing year

[Drag0nDan]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’m curious what “running it back” means to you guys.

Over the past 2 years (2023 trade deadline) the Sabres have dumped:

Cozens, Jokiharju, Gilbert, Aube-Kubel, Skinner, Olofsson, Okposo, Girgensons, Johnson, Robinson, Jost, Lyubushkin, Asplund, Mittelstadt, Anderson, Comrie, Granato and Christie

and brought in:

Norris, Bernard-Docker, Kulich, Zucker, McLeod, Malenstyn, Lafferty, Aube-Kubel, Gilbert, Reimer, Byram, Robinson, Benson, Johnson, Clifton, Greenway, Ruff and Appert

I think there are 10 guys still here from before that time:

Thompson, Dahlin, Tuch, Quinn, Peterka, Krebs, Power, Samuelsson, Bryson, UPL (plus Bales, Ellis and Wilford)? Quinn Peterka and Power were rookies that 2023 season.

Most here think Adams is guilty of running it back despite turning over more than half the roster and replacing the head coach. I kinda agree.

But I’m asking this as a serious question: What would he have to do this summer in order to have you say “at least he didn’t run it back”.

 

I'm for finding a top 6 center or winger or whatever.  Try and use the abundance of picks and prospects to add someone to the team who can make a real impact.  

And upgrade whatever we have going on in net.  You look at all the bad teams in the league, and bad goaltending is a problem for more than half of them.  

23 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Breaking news! Extra, extra! 

The sabres are *13th* at 5v5 gf%, on the strength of a meaningless late season run! Fractionally ahead of the team in 17th. So theoretically on the precipice of non-playoff quality after a bad week.
 

but…13th! All these years of suffering were worth it! 

Don’t you DARE touch the “forward group” 

Whats the big trade chip there that goes out to bring in someone new?  Is it JJP?  Tuch? Quinn? Byram?  

Once you add someone everyone else slots differently so it probably means a sabre today has to be moving out in that trade.  

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’m curious what “running it back” means to you guys.

Over the past 2 years (2023 trade deadline) the Sabres have dumped:

Cozens, Jokiharju, Gilbert, Aube-Kubel, Skinner, Olofsson, Okposo, Girgensons, Johnson, Robinson, Jost, Lyubushkin, Asplund, Mittelstadt, Anderson, Comrie, Granato and Christie

and brought in:

Norris, Bernard-Docker, Kulich, Zucker, McLeod, Malenstyn, Lafferty, Aube-Kubel, Gilbert, Reimer, Byram, Robinson, Benson, Johnson, Clifton, Greenway, Ruff and Appert

I think there are 10 guys still here from before that time:

Thompson, Dahlin, Tuch, Quinn, Peterka, Krebs, Power, Samuelsson, Bryson, UPL (plus Bales, Ellis and Wilford)? Quinn Peterka and Power were rookies that 2023 season.

Most here think Adams is guilty of running it back despite turning over more than half the roster and replacing the head coach. I kinda agree.

But I’m asking this as a serious question: What would he have to do this summer in order to have you say “at least he didn’t run it back”.

 

I just have a few items on my list that need to be done. 

1.) The most important issue in my view is the goalie position. He needs a good option to UPL. I'm not advocating ditching him, but the GM has to have a backup option in case that UPL doesn't step up. I wouldn't mind bringing Reimer back. 

2.) Get a legitimate #2 defenseman to pair with Power. Ideally, it would be a more rugged defensive oriented partner. 

3.) Add another second-line forward to the roster. That would be in addition to Norris. 

Our GM took a rebuild within approach that heavily relied on a draft and develop strategy. The hope is that players such as Quinn, Power, JJP, Kulich will progress as players. 

I believe that what I'm suggesting are doable. 

Again, the goalie issue is the most important issue that needs to be addressed. What Reimer has demonstrated during his recent play is that this team can succeed when it has consistently good goaltending. 

 

 

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, elijah said:

If you want to upgrade the top 9 forwards the guy to upgrade is Jack Quinn. But Jack Quinn has also substantially improved without Dylan Cozens. 

As far as the power play, I’m sure some new assistant coaches might help. 

I’m not saying I’m content with the results we’re getting, but this team isn’t failing right now because of the forwards. The forwards have been mostly fine but are getting backed by 1 defensemen and no goalies. It’s not the forwards that have led us to a 14th embarrassing year

The team isn’t failing from finishing 16th by way of the forwards right now *RELATIVE TO THE OTHER COMPONENTS OF THE TEAM*. Ie they aren’t the biggest culprit when it comes to achieving 16th. But then to jump to “so don’t address the forwards” is neither here nor there 

there is zero reason the max output of our roster if things go right should be 16th. It leaves no room for error! A mid pack forwards group by differential CANT be the high water mark of a team. So you can address the D and g but you can also, ya know, bump up the high point. 13th is a ridiculously low high point. If we add a D man and he prevents a goal, it doesn’t do more for us than Marner scoring an extra one. We are *13th*, not legendary. And the difference between us and others in this area statistical variance than can EASILY shift going into next season. Bet on that being good enough? To tune of missing 15 years, maybe? Why on earth?

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I just have a few items on my list that need to be done. 

1.) The most important issue in my view is the goalie position. He needs a good option to UPL. I'm not advocating ditching him, but the GM has to have a backup option in case that UPL doesn't step up. I wouldn't mind bringing Reimer back. 

2.) Get a legitimate #2 defenseman to pair with Power. Ideally, it would be a more rugged defensive oriented partner. 

3.) Add another second-line forward to the roster. That would be in addition to Norris. 

Our GM took a rebuild within approach that heavily relied on a draft and develop strategy. The hope is that players such as Quinn, Power, JJP, Kulich will progress as players. 

I believe that what I'm suggesting are doable. 

Again, the goalie issue is the most important issue that needs to be addressed. What Reimer has demonstrated during his recent play is that this team can succeed when it has consistently good goaltending. 

 

 

Adams hasn’t achieved good goaltending in 5 years 

are you asking him to bring in good goaltending or bring back Reimer? The latter is possible 

[elijah]

5 minutes ago, Thorner said:

there is zero reason the max output of our roster if things go right should be 16th. It leaves no room for error! A mid pack forwards group by differential CANT be the high water mark of a team. So you can address the D and g but you can also, ya know, bump up the high point. 13th is a ridiculously low high point. If we add a D man and he prevents a goal, it doesn’t do more for us than Marner scoring an extra one. We are *13th*, not legendary. And the difference between us and others in this area statistical variance than can EASILY shift going into next season. Bet on that being good enough? To tune of missing 15 years, maybe? Why on earth?

 

1 hour ago, elijah said:

If Adams decides to do more than the bare minimum (he won’t), you trade any combination of power/byram/quinn/prospects/picks and get a true difference maker in the top 6 or a borderline top RHD pairing guy and then replace the pieces you sent with free agents or prospects.

So if we read the OP that started this in totality instead of stopping early, it appears that we’re on the same page 🤝 

[Thorner]

59 minutes ago, elijah said:

You’re 7th in goals while being 25th in PP%, and all of these guys analytically are positive players aside from Quinn. Running back the forwards not only isn’t a problem, but it may even be the right thing to do. 

You need to fix the goaltending situation, add a desperately needed Power pair who’s strong and reliable defensively, and fix the PP. There’s no shame in running back the forwards next year. 

 

10 minutes ago, elijah said:

 

So if we read the OP that started this in totality instead of stopping early, it appears that we’re on the same page 🤝 

I read it. I just disagree, still. See bold

is running back the F the “bare minimum” (ie not enough) or is there no shame in it? Can’t be both, conflicting messaging here 

Edit - at least, it can’t be both, the way I personally see it: which is the point I’m trying to make. For this franchise to elect for the bare minimum is what’s so unacceptable. Maybe one’s mileage may vary 

Edited 22 hours ago by Thorner