How would you retool this team this summer?

[pi2000]

hire a POHO

upgrade the goaltending

add veteran depth on the back end

make a big bold hockey trade to add a star player... something along the lines of a Turgeon/LaFontaine deal.   nobody is untouchable.

 

[sabremike]

Fire the entire coaching staff and replace them with guys who aren't awful at their jobs.

[GASabresIUFAN]

48 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Isn't this the kind of thing Kevyn Adams would do?

That's the current alignment, so yes!  I didn't say it was ideal, but it is working right now.  

I also wrote that if I can get a playmaking top 6 center for Norris, I'd make the deal.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

He's never put up more than 46 points in any league anywhere.

This is a very misleading statement and needs some serious context.  His 46 points came in only 62 game (.74 pts per game) and his 45 the next season came in only 57 games (.79 pts per game)

He also had 48 pts in 35 games as a U16.  His draft year (2022) he had 37 points in 32 games in international competitions.  

Edited Thursday at 03:02 AM by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

31 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This is a very misleading statement and needs some serious context.  His 46 points came in only 62 game (.74 pts per game) and his 45 the next season came in only 57 games (.79 pts per game)

He also had 48 pts in 35 games as a U16.  His draft year (2022) he had 37 points in 32 games in international competitions.  

You think .79 pts per game in the AHL is a strong argument for 1C in the NHL 2 years later?

Peyton Krebs put up better numbers in the AHL. Better numbers as an NHL rookie too.

Edited Thursday at 03:29 AM by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

You think .79 pts per game in the AHL is a strong argument for 1C in the NHL 2 years later?

Not every player on a first line in the NHL is a 30 goal scorer or pt a game player.   51 pts right now is a top 96 scorer in the NHL, that's about .69 pts per game.  That player is Chandler Stephenson (who has 51 pts in 75 games) and he never had more than 38 points in the AHL.  

So if Kulich is able to produce at a similar level in the NHL, then yes he would be an 1st line player.  I also think Kulich will be a better player in the NHL than Stephenson for example.  Kulich and Benson also bring a significant amount of forechecking and back checking effort.  Their skill set seems to really compliment TNT.  

I also think your getting hung up on 1st line vs 2nd line vs 3rd line.  Ideally the Sabres top 3 lines all are able to score at a good level.  Zucker, for example, is in the top 96 scorers in the NHL and he is not exactly a top line player.  

Right now we have a 40 goal scorer on the "1st" line, a 34 and 24 goal scorers on the "2nd" line and a 21 & 19 goal scorers on the "3rd line." That's a pretty balanced attack.  The Sabres are also 3rd in 5 on 5 scoring and 3rd in all EV situations.  Something is working on the offense. 

Edited Thursday at 03:45 AM by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Not every player on a first line in the NHL is a 30 goal scorer or pt a game player.   51 pts right now is a top 96 scorer in the NHL, that's about .69 pts per game.  That player is Chandler Stephenson (who has 51 pts in 75 games) and he never had more than 38 points in the AHL.  

So if Kulich is able to produce at a similar level in the NHL, then yes he would be an 1st line player.  I also think Kulich will be a better player in the NHL than Stephenson for example.  Kulich and Benson also bring a significant amount of forechecking and back checking effort.  Their skill set seems to really compliment TNT.  

I also think your getting hung up on 1st line vs 2nd line vs 3rd line.  Ideally the Sabres top 3 lines all are able to score at a good level.  Zucker, for example, is in the top 96 scorers in the NHL and he is not exactly a top line player.  

Right now we have a 40 goal scorer on the "1st" line, a 34 and 24 goal scorers on the "2nd" line and a 21 & 19 goal scorers on the "3rd line." That's a pretty balanced attack.  The Sabres are also 3rd in 5 on 5 scoring and 3rd in all EV situations.  Something is working on the offense. 

Did this team make the playoffs? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Did this team make the playoffs? 

It would with better defense and goaltending.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It would with better defense and goaltending.

Exactly. Which means the most logical conclusion is we need to acquire better defense and goaltending. Kevyn Adams has proven for 5 years he is incapable of that AND I personally believe this late season run will do the exact thing 2023 did, convince Adams of his own superiority and correctness. 

[Thorner]

22 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

3) Tinker only with the Forwards  - There is much to like in our forward group.  

 

11 hours ago, dudacek said:

 

 

Jiri Kulich pencilled in as 1st-line centre is the plan?

Dude has played 57 NHL games and recorded 22 career points. He's never put up more than 46 points in any league anywhere.

He has 8 assists, playing a majority of his year alongside one of the best goal scorers in the world. He should have 10 assists just from off pucks bouncing off his shins.

Isn't this the kind of thing Kevyn Adams would do?

 

I’ve been here recently, too slippery: as you can see below 

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That's the current alignment, so yes!  I didn't say it was ideal, but it is working right now.  

I also wrote that if I can get a playmaking top 6 center for Norris, I'd make the deal.  

It’s phrased as what he wants, first “tinker only, much to like”, then when pushed on the matter it’s just “well it’s what Adams would do” 

Structuring lineups is the endgame, itself. I don’t think enough realize that: in many ways this is what the hobby has become, because our metrics have changed (re: winning being the goal)

Play the game. Construct a realistic lineup given your GM. Online EA sports simulator mode 

Edited Thursday at 01:36 PM by Thorner

[LGR4GM]

If we don't trade for a defender, here are the UFAs. Click on the position (POS) option and it will let you select what position to display, you can click on it again to add additional spots. Dante Fabbro, Nick Perbix are a couple of RHDs that are young and won't break the bank. 

https://capwages.com/players/ufas

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Thorner said:

I’ve been here recently, too slippery: as you can see below 

It’s phrased as what he wants, first “tinker only, much to like”, then when pushed on the matter it’s just “well it’s what Adams would do” 

Structuring lineups is the endgame, itself. I don’t think enough realize that: in many ways this is what the hobby has become, because our metrics have changed (re: winning being the goal)

Play the game. Construct a realistic lineup given your GM. Online EA sports simulator mode 

I think in regards to Kulich that Adams doesn't see him as the #1 center, he sees Norris as that. 

Benson - Norris - Thompson

Peterka - McLeod/Kulich - Tuch

Zucker - Kulich/McLeod - Quinn/Greenway

Greenway - Krebs - Malestyn/Lafferty/Quinn

Idk if I love that lineup. 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think in regards to Kulich that Adams doesn't see him as the #1 center, he sees Norris as that. 

Benson - Norris - Thompson

Peterka - McLeod/Kulich - Tuch

Zucker - Kulich/McLeod - Quinn/Greenway

Greenway - Krebs - Malestyn/Lafferty/Quinn

Idk if I love that lineup. 

It’s the exact same collection of players GA used so I’m still opposed 

Personally, I’m not a fan of merely tinkering with a team that’s 11 points out of the playoffs in year 5 of a regime

What are we doing here? There’s a good argument to be made we’ve lost the plot in entirety 

[Thorner]

We are 11 points out of the playoffs in year 5 

should I say it again? If someone’s answer is a couple depth D and a backup goalie, you’ve made peace with yourself winning isn’t that important so just admit it to the board 

Stanley cup winners and contenders tinker 

The Buffalo Sabres also tinker 

Tinker tailor soldier suck 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Thorner said:

It’s the exact same collection of players GA used so I’m still opposed 

Personally, I’m not a fan of merely tinkering with a team that’s 11 points out of the playoffs in year 5 of a regime

What are we doing here? There’s a good argument to be made we’ve lost the plot in entirety 

I am good with trading away and mixing up the forwards. I think Adams is gonna run it back though because he's to stupid to see this late season run for what it is. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Exactly. Which means the most logical conclusion is we need to acquire better defense and goaltending. Kevyn Adams has proven for 5 years he is incapable of that AND I personally believe this late season run will do the exact thing 2023 did, convince Adams of his own superiority and correctness. 

I agree wholehearted.  Read my plan.  I want Adams gone and I want a complete overhaul of the defense.  I honestly think we are stuck with UPL next season, but a better defense should yield better results on the PK and GA in general.

[Thorner]

This is a good tweet 

in a sense, this streak to end the season puts Adams in a position where he’d have to be a hypocrite to value the current stretch but dismiss the 13 gamer 

Edited Thursday at 01:53 PM by Thorner

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, Thorner said:

We are 11 points out of the playoffs in year 5 

should I say it again? If someone’s answer is a couple depth D and a backup goalie, you’ve made peace with yourself winning isn’t that important so just admit it to the board 

Stanley cup winners and contenders tinker 

The Buffalo Sabres also tinker 

Tinker tailor soldier suck 

Ok which forward are you punting for this mythical "fix" at forward?

Zucker and Greenway were just re-signed.  They aren't being traded.

TNT and Tuch are our best forwards and are on team friendly deals.  They aren't being traded.

McLeod has had a breakout season and is our best defensive forward.  He'll be re-signed.

JJP is our best young forward and is a legit top 6 forward.  He'll be re-signed.

Benson and Kulich are our best young forwards after JJP, they play the right way, play two way hockey and are improving with every game.  They aren't being traded.

That's 8 forwards who aren't going anywhere.  Norris was just acquired and Kozak is solidifying himself as the 4th line center.

So I ask again, what move are you making to improve this group?  They are 3rd in NHL in EV goals for.  Tell us your fix!

[LGR4GM]

21 minutes ago, Thorner said:

 

in a sense, this streak to end the season puts Adams in a position where he’d have to be a hypocrite to value the current stretch but dismiss the 13 gamer 

We know Adams is a hypocrite willing to lie to the fans. He proved that with his fake coaching search. He interviewed Appertt and Ruff and then acted like he ran a legit search because he's a hypocrite. The decision making is wrong because the process underlying it is wrong because Adams is not objective at all. 

18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Ok which forward are you punting for this mythical "fix" at forward?

Zucker and Greenway were just re-signed.  They aren't being traded.

TNT and Tuch are our best forwards and are on team friendly deals.  They aren't being traded.

McLeod has had a breakout season and is our best defensive forward.  He'll be re-signed.

JJP is our best young forward and is a legit top 6 forward.  He'll be re-signed.

Benson and Kulich are our best young forwards after JJP, they play the right way, play two way hockey and are improving with every game.  They aren't being traded.

That's 8 forwards who aren't going anywhere.  Norris was just acquired and Kozak is solidifying himself as the 4th line center.

So I ask again, what move are you making to improve this group?  They are 3rd in NHL in EV goals for.  Tell us your fix!

Kozak is going to lose his 4th line center spot to Krebs. 

Edited Thursday at 02:14 PM by LGR4GM

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Ok which forward are you punting for this mythical "fix" at forward?

Zucker and Greenway were just re-signed.  They aren't being traded.

TNT and Tuch are our best forwards and are on team friendly deals.  They aren't being traded.

McLeod has had a breakout season and is our best defensive forward.  He'll be re-signed.

JJP is our best young forward and is a legit top 6 forward.  He'll be re-signed.

Benson and Kulich are our best young forwards after JJP, they play the right way, play two way hockey and are improving with every game.  They aren't being traded.

That's 8 forwards who aren't going anywhere.  Norris was just acquired and Kozak is solidifying himself as the 4th line center.

So I ask again, what move are you making to improve this group?  They are 3rd in NHL in EV goals for.  Tell us your fix!

I like how a fix at forward where we have added is “mythical” yet KA addressing G, which is literally half your “plan”, constitutes a move he has never made properly in 5 years 

He’s not addressing goalie

he has zero eye for goalies 

he waived Reimer lol 

The goaltending has been bad every year 

Edited Thursday at 01:57 PM by Thorner

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Thorner said:

I like how a fix at forward where we have added is “mythical” yet KA addressing G, which is literally half your “plan”, constitutes a move he has never made properly in 5 years 

You keep saying overhaul the whole team, yet you don't offer any specifics.  So for the 18th time, what's your plan?

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Kozak is going to learn his 4th line center spot to Krebs. 

?

Lose? his center spot to Krebs?

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We know Adams is a hypocrite willing to lie to the fans. He proved that with his fake coaching search. He interviewed Appertt and Ruff and then acted like he ran a legit search because he's a hypocrite. The decision making is wrong because the process underlying it is wrong because Adams is not objective at all. 

Lying about the coaching search is a good point. I have zero comment on him personally but he’s a slimy professional, demonstrably so time and time again. Not even just inept, which the results have factually borne out 

him being the face of the franchise is just too much for me. So if they scrape a playoff berth next year in the last year of his deal, he gets what, a lifetime contract? That’s a conflict of interest for me, not afraid to say it

i said I’d be done if they missed this year and Adams was back. We should know in a few days 

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You keep saying overhaul the whole team, yet you don't offer any specifics.  So for the 18th time, what's your plan?

?

Lose? his center spot to Krebs?

I’m not saying to overhaul the whole team you clearly aren’t even reading the endless writing I’ve done on this. I’m saying they should be attacking the roster in BPA fashion 

Let’s try a stupid but clear analogy: think of it like punching a hole in the wall. Someone says I’ll give you a million dollars if you can do it.

Do you calculate the exact force you think you need, while assuming the wall is hopefully one of the those made of more breakable materials, and swing with the exact force you think you need, no more no less? Or do you wind up and swing as hard as you can? 

Why are we leaving anything to chance? Do we want to make the playoffs or not? Improve the team in all areas as best we can. It’s not about priority of position: it’s about priority of player 

Marino ran a poll online suggesting who we’d want to add between Marner and Ekblad. This is an absurd mindset. It’s Marner. By a mile - the better player. 

[Thorner]

Our good team offence is a symptom of our poor team D. It’s a system offence, in some ways. The forwards aren’t “fine”. If we had more talent and aptitude there, both ways, perhaps the defence wouldn’t have to suffer so much to have the offence ignited 

It’s important to look at differential to get a more clear picture of the forwards, and not merely “goalz for” 

Edited Thursday at 02:13 PM by Thorner

[JP51]

I am not going to name names, opine on theoretical trades, or pretend I understand the likelihood of those that we are trying to attract actually willing to come here. I think we need to address the broader culture, define how we move forward and take an opportunistic stance in making moves when those moves align with the overall goals.  We should not force moves that don't make sense. We must begin with the right management personnel, with the right vision, we must not skimp on resources, nor should we deal from a position of weakness and desperation to achieve a short term feel good gain. The goal is to win championships not 5 extra games before we go golfing. 

 

1. Hire well respected POHO and turn over control - Pegula

POHO - not even a step in the process... immediately fire Adams... and permanently ban him from the building

1. Allow Ruff to hire his own staff (with a mandate that a top developmental coach must be hired)

2. Shut Down the "Make the playoffs" narrative - Change it to win cup... this concept of aspiring to be middle of the pack needs to stop immediately.

3. Ignore calls of those looking for moves that will immediately get us into the playoffs so we can take a 4-1 1st rd exit

4. Identify players that we want to help us win Championships. Hockey players not figure skaters

5. Begin to move out all others for players that fit into the above category when the appropriate situation arises. We should not force our way out unless they are so detrimental to the overall plan (aka Diggs) 

6.  Do what it takes to find a Premier player sub 30 year old that will come here that fits into category 4 that will not only improve the team but demonstrate who we want to become, our identity. 

7. Hire full compliment of scouting staff and tech people etc... demonstrate that we are going to be run like a Pro team that intends to compete.

8. Rid us of bad contracts (see cat 5) and begin to reward those in Cat 4

9. Hammer the cup narrative, change the outside view by changing the inside expectations

10. No sacred cows results based performance and accountability

This is not an easy task and it will be hard to come back from... but I dont believe in skipping steps... I want a cup not an every other year playoff appearance. But sometimes when you repair you have to start foundationally...  so, I am starting there. Our problems are past our players... and move to a complete dysfunction and rudderless plan whose goal is mediocrity with the I am just happy to be here mantra... Thats the problem, not palm trees.