How would you retool this team this summer?

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Adams hasn’t achieved good goaltending in 5 years 

are you asking him to bring in good goaltending or bring back Reimer? The latter is possible 

Why not both? 

Your first sentence indicates why he has been such a failure. When Ullmark didn't sign a deal in the last year of his contract, he should have put a lot more attention on focusing on that position. A GM is supposed to anticipate and properly respond to "just in case" options. As you have pointed out in a prior post, even if he didn't know that Ullmark wouldn't sign a new contract, what he did know is that Ullmark didn't sign another contract before it expired. The result is that the GM left the team in a vulnerable situation with respect to that critical position.

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Why not both? 

Your first sentence indicates why he has been such a failure. When Ullmark didn't sign a deal in the last year of his contract, he should have put a lot more attention on focusing on that position. A GM is supposed to anticipate and properly respond to "just in case" options. As you have pointed out in a prior post, even if he didn't know that Ullmark wouldn't sign a new contract, what he did know is that Ullmark didn't sign another contract before it expired. The result is that the GM left the team in a vulnerable situation with respect to that critical position.

It’s just.. I see him as open to adding good forwards now (McLeod) but I haven’t seen him do anything in net since we went on the Levi timeline. We signed UPL I guess, imagine he’s the guy for now 

[thewookie1]

On 4/11/2025 at 1:07 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

For all those here who believe Marner would consider joining the Sabres, here is a possible (but unlikely) go for it roster that is cap compliant

1) Sign Marner 7 years @ 13.5

2) Trade UPL, Norris and other assets for Demko and Pettersson.  Re-sign Demko for 5 x 5

3) Trade Power for Marino (M-NTC) and other assets

4) Trade Zucker, Quinn, Lafferty and Clifton for assets. (It’s possible assets acquired in these deals would replace Orlov and/or Brannstrom)

5) Sign Dimitry Orlov for 3x 3.3

6) re-sign McLeod 3x 4.5, JJP 5 x 6.5, Levi 2 x 1.25, JBD 2 x 1.25, Brannstrom  1 x 1, and Kozak 1 x 900K

7) sign a depth forward (or acquire one in a step 4 trade @900k). 

8.) Buyout Samuelsson if we can’t trade him.

9.) lastly to make this work we need to trade Greenway for a forward @ around 2.5 mill a season or less. The issue is Greenway was given a M-NTC. 
 

Roster

Marner TNT Benson

JJP Pettersson Tuch

Kulich McLeod Greenway replacement

Krebs Kozak Malenstyn (depth FA)

Dahlin Marino

Byram Orlov

Brannstrom JCB (Bryson)

Demko Levi

The cap cost with Skinner’s and Samuelsson buyouts would be 95.6 million.  The defense after the top 2 pairs is suspect, but with Novikov and Komarov in the minors I’m ok with risking it.  Also Östlund is a prospect I’m not including in any deals because I need him for depth.

 

 

Huge no to most of this

You will burn whatever remaining bridges we have if we were to trade 2 guys we just extended prior to the deadline.

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Huge no to most of this

You will burn whatever remaining bridges we have if we were to trade 2 guys we just extended prior to the deadline.

I agree actually, I was just showing a way to add Marner and Pettersson while also trying to improve the defensive skill of the D and improve the goaltending.  It was hard to do and I had to move out Norris, Power, Zucker and Greenway to get it done.  As I wrote in the start of the that post "here is a possible (unlikely) go for it roster."  

Edited Saturday at 08:15 PM by GASabresIUFAN

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Thorner said:

Breaking news! Extra, extra! 

The sabres are *13th* at 5v5 gf%, on the strength of a meaningless late season run! Fractionally ahead of the team in 17th. So theoretically on the precipice of non-playoff quality after a bad week.
 

but…13th! All these years of suffering were worth it! 

Don’t you DARE touch the “forward group” 

Dude, what are you even talking about?  You do realize that gf% is a stat that looks at 5 on 5 gf vs ga?  That means that bad goaltending and bad defense are an integral part of our "13th" place.  It's not just the forwards.

The forwards are doing their part 5 on 5 and scoring.   They are 3rd in the NHL in 5 on 5 scoring with 179.  They are also making an effort on the defensive end.  Tuch leads all NHL forwards in blocked shots with 107.  Tuch and Malenstyn are in the top 10 in blocks per 60 of all NHL forwards.  Clifton is our only D in the top 50 in blocked shots per 60.  

For us to be only 13th 5 on 5 in GF%, but 3rd in 5 on 5 goals, our defense and goaltending have to be terrible.  You even admit our goaltending is terrible.  Where would be with the same offense, but better goaltending and defenders?  Top 5 in GF% most likely and in the playoffs.  

By the way, no one is saying don't mess with the forwards, not even me.  I have our GM taking offers for Norris and Quinn in my first plan on this thread.  However the priority to fix this team is fixing the crap goalies and crap defenders.

Edited Saturday at 08:36 PM by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorner]

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Dude, what are you even talking about?  You do realize that gf% is a stat that looks at 5 on 5 gf vs ga?  That means that bad goaltending and bad defense are an integral part of our "13th" place.  It's not just the forwards.

The forwards are doing their part 5 on 5 and scoring.   They are 3rd in the NHL in 5 on 5 scoring with 179.  They are also making an effort on the defensive end.  Tuch leads all NHL forwards in blocked shots with 107.  Tuch and Malenstyn are in the top 10 in blocks per 60 of all NHL forwards.  

For us to be only 13th 5 on 5 in GF%, but 3rd in 5 on 5 goals, our defense and goaltending have to be terrible.  You even admit our goaltending is terrible.  Where would be with the same offense, but better goaltending and defenders?  Top 5 in GF% most likely and in the playoffs.  

By the way, no one is saying don't mess with the forwards, not even me.  I have our GM taking offers for Norris and Quinn in my first plan on this thread.  However the priority to fix this team is fixing the crap goalies and crap defenders.

I don’t see it that way at all. The whole way you look at stats is imo just frivolous and bad. Unpredictive, unlearning, and a slave to the moment. It’s an incredibly macro thing. The sabres were 23rd in goals last season, my guy. The core of the roster is the same. These things fluctuate incredibly one season over another simply because hockey is a *fluid* game. Roster construction issues manifest in a multitude of ways. Ruff’s system is FACILITATING OFFENCE at the expense of D. Perhaps a better F unit would allow the goals to come without the manipulations?

NM the fact you can’t just isolate the stats and attribute it to a portion of the roster - it doesn’t work like that. The most effective way by far is to look at differential, in a fluid game, as a mark of the whole team 

@PromoTheRobotis right when he says it’s difficult to evaluate UPL. It’s tough to evaluate much of anything when there are so many key variables. The way you believe you can Willy nilly isolate areas of need when looking at stats borne out of a fluid game at all times is frankly absurd 

Build your team like Kevyn Adams…or the way you do, because of, Kevyn Adams… whichever. I honestly can’t keep track of it anymore. I have half a mind to suggest you can’t, either. And frankly, m’dear, I don’t give a damn 

Edited Saturday at 08:45 PM by Thorner

[GASabresIUFAN]

21 minutes ago, Thorner said:

I don’t see it that way at all. The whole way you look at stats is imo just frivolous and bad. Unpredictive, unlearning, and a slave to the moment. It’s an incredibly macro thing. The sabres were 23rd in goals last season, my guy. The core of the roster is the same. These things fluctuate incredibly one season over another simply because hockey is a *fluid* game. Roster construction issues manifest in a multitude of ways. Ruff’s system is FACILITATING OFFENCE at the expense of D. Perhaps a better F unit would allow the goals to come without the manipulations?

NM the fact you can’t just isolate the stats and attribute it to a portion of the roster - it doesn’t work like that. The most effective way by far is to look at differential, in a fluid game, as a mark of the whole team 

@PromoTheRobotis right when he says it’s difficult to evaluate UPL. It’s tough to evaluate much of anything when there are so many key variables. The way you believe you can Willy nilly isolate areas of need when looking at stats borne out of a fluid game at all times is frankly absurd 

Build you team like Kevyn Adams…or the way you do because of Kevyn Adams… whichever. I honestly can’t keep track of it anymore

If you think the stat gf% is a whole team stats, why do you only blame the forwards?  I think you need top look beyond that one stat and I think you'll get a clearer picture where the issues lie.  

The Sabres are -159 in scoring chances for (47.7% SCF) and -100 in high danger scoring chances (45.9%) for the season.  The goaltending has a 910 save percentage 5 on 5 vs a league AVERAGE of .918.  The goalies save % overall is .880 vs a league average of .894.  If we got just average goaltending, we'd have allowed 30+ less goals this season (I estimate 20 less 5 on 5).  What would our GF% be then if we allowed 20 less goals 5 on 5? We'd move from our current +8 to +28.  

In fact, if we allowed just 20 less goals 5 on 5 for the season by getting average goaltending, we'd have a +positive differential and likely be in the playoffs.

Now where would be if our defense could help minimize SCA and HDCA for a change?  

Edited Saturday at 09:03 PM by GASabresIUFAN

[Archie Lee]

23 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If you think the stat gf% is a whole team stats, why do you only blame the forwards?  I think you need top look beyond that one stat and I think you'll get a clearer picture where the issues lie.  

The Sabres are -159 in scoring chances for (47.7% SCF) and -100 in high danger scoring chances (45.9%) for the season.  The goaltending has a 910 save percentage 5 on 5 vs a league AVERAGE of .918.  The goalies save % overall is .880 vs a league average of .894.  If we got just average goaltending, we'd have allowed 30+ less goals this season (I estimate 20 less 5 on 5).  What would our GF% be then if we allowed 20 less goals 5 on 5? We'd move from our current +8 to +28.  

In fact, if we allowed just 20 less goals 5 on 5 for the season by getting average goaltending, we'd have a +positive differential and likely be in the playoffs.

Now where would be if our defense could help minimize SCA and HDCA for a change?  

Honest question, what does it mean that we are -159 in scoring chances and -100 in high danger scoring chances?

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Honest question, what does it mean that we are -159 in scoring chances and -100 in high danger scoring chances?

That means, for example, if we’ve had 500 HDCF we have allowed 600 HDCA.  

With a 45.9% high danger chances we basically allow 54 HDCA for every 46 HDCF. 

Despite these terrible stats we still have a positive EV differential.  Just think what improvements in goal and on defense would do for this team.

Edited Sunday at 08:18 PM by GASabresIUFAN

[Goldseatsaud]

Package some of the youth with the amerks. 

[Mr Peabody]

I’d tell my new POHO to have at it.  One stipulation would be to keep Dahlin and as a reward for his hustle he can pick 2 friends to keep on the team. 

[SABRES 0311]

If the Sabres lose their remaining games this thread will hit 15 pages.

[PerreaultForever]

Does anyone disagree with the needs being top 4 D man (defensive D man), NHL level goalie, and 4th line tough guy? 

Same needs as last year incidentally. 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said:

Does anyone disagree with the needs being top 4 D man (defensive D man), NHL level goalie, and 4th line tough guy? 

Same needs as last year incidentally. 

They should bring in a 3rd line tough guy. If he's pushed to the 4th, so be it. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Does anyone disagree with the needs being top 4 D man (defensive D man), NHL level goalie, and 4th line tough guy? 

Same needs as last year incidentally. 

We need two top 4 D, an NHL goalie and possibly a playmaker (center?) in the top 6.

Malenstyn and Greenway are good enough tough guys, but having someone tough on defense would be a nice change.  Clifton hits people, but that's about it. I would like someone in the top 6 who plays with an edge and is bigger than Benson, but I don't see that as a necessity this summer.

Edited Monday at 02:08 AM by GASabresIUFAN

[Archie Lee]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That means, for example, if we’ve had 500 HDCF we have allowed 600 HDCA.  

With a 45.9% high danger chances we basically allow 54 HDCA for every 46 HDCF. 

Despite these terrible stats we still have a positive EV differential.  Just think what improvements in goal and on defense would do for this team.

Thanks.

Agreed...so long as by defense you mean "Team Defense". That means better coaching (starting with the head coach), a better system, better structure, better support from the forwards, a couple of d-men who defend better, and better goaltending.

[thewookie1]

Goals for the defense this offseason

1) Acquire a solid veteran defenseman to pair with Power.

2) A competent defenseman to play with Dahlin so he doesn’t have to drag his partner to relevance 60min a game. 

3) Barring some sort of coming to God moment for Muel; deal him away.

4) Depending on cap space, deal Clifton to clear his 3.3mil contract. Especially if our RHDs are Dahlin, Vet D guy, Bernard-Docker. He’s not a player who can play well on his off-side.

[spndnchz]

15 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Goals for the defense this offseason

1) Acquire a solid veteran defenseman to pair with Power.

2) A competent defenseman to play with Dahlin so he doesn’t have to drag his partner to relevance 60min a game. 

3) Barring some sort of coming to God moment for Muel; deal him away.

4) Depending on cap space, deal Clifton to clear his 3.3mil contract. Especially if our RHDs are Dahlin, Vet D guy, Bernard-Docker. He’s not a player who can play well on his off-side.

He’s not a player who can play well on his off-side.””

you mean Clifton?

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, spndnchz said:

He’s not a player who can play well on his off-side.””

you mean Clifton?

yes, granted i have no clue about the new guy

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

They should bring in a 3rd line tough guy. If he's pushed to the 4th, so be it. 

Sure. A little harder to get though. 

Tanner Jeannot is a UFA. 

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We need two top 4 D, an NHL goalie and possibly a playmaker (center?) in the top 6.

Malenstyn and Greenway are good enough tough guys, but having someone tough on defense would be a nice change.  Clifton hits people, but that's about it. I would like someone in the top 6 who plays with an edge and is bigger than Benson, but I don't see that as a necessity this summer.

I take issue with this. No, no they are not. Greenway is always hurt and he doesn't fight often or particularly well. Malentstyn? Östlund got crunched today and what did he do? Nothing. What has he done all year? Sure he blocks a few shots on the PK and throws a few checks but he's basically a non factor of anything and never drops them. At least not as a Sabre. 

Tougher D though yes. I agree. Who answered the bell after the Thompson issue? Gilbert. Not a great D man. A 7/8 guy for sure but he could take on a heavyweight. So what did KA do? Tossed him away as a throw in on the Cozens deal. We never value these guys. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We need two top 4 D, an NHL goalie and possibly a playmaker (center?) in the top 6.

Malenstyn and Greenway are good enough tough guys, but having someone tough on defense would be a nice change.  Clifton hits people, but that's about it. I would like someone in the top 6 who plays with an edge and is bigger than Benson, but I don't see that as a necessity this summer.

Sure, 2 top 4 D. Especially if you can replace Samuelsson but I'd be happy with at least 1 good one. Playmaking center? I don't know about that. First off there's the Norris issue. One presumes he can play next year? Maybe. But I don't really need him. Kulich looks like the real deal and a line like Benson Kulich Thompson could get even better and get really good.  I actually think we are okay at center and we definitely have enough offense. It's not the weak spot.

[SABRES 0311]

Defense

If I’m being realistic I would go for a second pair quality, stay at home, physical defenseman. If I’m worried about the cap even though it’s going up I would trade either Byram or Power to make the deal.

Dahlin - Muel

Power or Byram - New Guy

Clifton - JBD

PK: Dahlin - New Guy

Forwards

Priority is lock up Tuch and JJP. Tuch deserves it over the summer not last minute as a show of faith.

Either Thompson is our 1C or we get a new guy and Thompson moves full time to 1RW. Norris and Kulich are not the answer if we want to be better. I would package our 2025 first overall pick with Quinn or Kulich if I had to.

JJP - New Guy - Thompson

Tuch - Norris - Quinn/Kulich

Greenway - McLeod - Benson

Malenstyn - Krebs -Lafferty/Kozak

Tgere are a lot of configurations with that lineup because most of these guys have played up and down already. I would actually like to see a very physical guy on the 4RW.

[LGR4GM]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Sure, 2 top 4 D. Especially if you can replace Samuelsson but I'd be happy with at least 1 good one. Playmaking center? I don't know about that. First off there's the Norris issue. One presumes he can play next year? Maybe. But I don't really need him. Kulich looks like the real deal and a line like Benson Kulich Thompson could get even better and get really good.  I actually think we are okay at center and we definitely have enough offense. It's not the weak spot.

We need to stop living on "could get" and actually get better. 

[Drag0nDan]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

We need to stop living on "could get" and actually get better. 

I just don't see a way to get a 1C anywhere in a trade - so these "Trade Quinn, Kulich whomever" for a new center doesn't really work.  

[SabreFinn]

1 hour ago, Drag0nDan said:

I just don't see a way to get a 1C anywhere in a trade - so these "Trade Quinn, Kulich whomever" for a new center doesn't really work.  

Agree. As I see it there are fourteen teams that need a first or a second line center this offseason.