OT: Erie County to allow control of Key Bank Center to revert to the City of Buffalo at the end of the current lease

[shrader]

8 hours ago, sabremike said:

The ownership ended up a total fiasco but I distinctly recall that the arena really just didn't want hockey at that point but "kicked out" might be too strong a term. Regardless, it took an absolutely bonkers situation for that relocation to happen.

They were losing money and the best offer came from True North. It’s not really bonkers at all. It’s a story we’ve heard hundreds of times across sports. It just so happens that the money offer came from a group that worked with the NHL as opposed to go behind their backs. That’s how you get things done. 

[PromoTheRobot]

10 hours ago, sabremike said:

The ownership ended up a total fiasco but I distinctly recall that the arena really just didn't want hockey at that point but "kicked out" might be too strong a term. Regardless, it took an absolutely bonkers situation for that relocation to happen.

 

Wikipedia:

Due to financial losses and ownership struggles, the team was frequently a target of relocation rumors. In later years, reports saw the team courted by suitors intending to relocate to Kansas City, Quebec City, Hamilton, or Winnipeg.[10][11] On January 22, 2011, the team's ownership group claimed it had lost US$130 million in the last six years, partially as a result of an ongoing lawsuit with former partner Steve Belkin.[12] In February 2011, majority owner Michael Gearon stated that the team would be seeking new investors.[13] Various local groups announced their intent to purchase the franchise and keep it in Atlanta,[14][15] but ultimately the team was sold to the Canadian group True North Sports & Entertainment.

 

On May 16, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that talks for a sale to True North Sports & Entertainment were underway.[16] According to The Globe and Mail, a deal was finalized on May 20, 2011, to relocate the team to Winnipeg.[17] The League later denied the report, but acknowledged that advanced negotiations between the two teams were underway and that NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman supported the move.[18] Draft schedules were prepared that accommodated for the team's move to Winnipeg,[19] as True North sought to move the Manitoba Moose of the American Hockey League (AHL), eventually moving the team to St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, in Atlantic Canada, playing as the St. John's IceCaps.[20] However, the IceCaps were eventually moved back to Winnipeg in 2015.[21]

 

On May 31, True North Sports & Entertainment and the NHL held a press conference in Winnipeg to announce the completion of a deal to purchase the Thrashers. True North intended to relocate the team to the MTS Centre in Winnipeg on June 21, 2011 to become the new Winnipeg Jets. Both the sale and relocation of the team were formally approved by the NHL's Board of Governors. The Atlanta Spirit Group, however, retained the rights of the name and logos for the Thrashers, which are expected to be used by any future Atlanta NHL franchise that may be established or move there.[22]

Nothing about being kicked out.

[PromoTheRobot]

On 4/11/2025 at 2:48 PM, sabremike said:

What part of "People on the other side of the Peace Bridge GENERALLY are not Sabres fans" did you not understand? 

But they are hockey fans and they buy tickets, even if to watch another Canadian team. 

[Pimlach]

On 4/11/2025 at 1:48 PM, sabremike said:

What part of "People on the other side of the Peace Bridge GENERALLY are not Sabres fans" did you not understand? 

I tend to agree with this given todays situation, but once upon a time there were many Sabres fans coming down from Canada.   Even in the early days, when the Canadian fans were about 13% of the STHs, the majority of them were Sabres fans.   

Just like the fans in WNY, the fans in Southern Ontario are not going to blindly follow a terribly run team that shows no signs of even trying.  So when these younger fans come to games they tend to cheer for star players, or players from nearby towns, or players that may have played Juniors nearby.  The Pegula Sabres did this to themselves.  

It only stands to reason that the lost generation of Sabres fans affects both sides of the boarder.  

[mjd1001]

On 4/10/2025 at 3:31 PM, sabremike said:

The fans on the other side of the Peace Bridge are generally people who don't give a flying ***** about the Sabres and just want to see NHL hockey. If we weren't historically bad SABRES FANS IN WNY WOULD BE BUYING EVERY ***** TICKET.

Your above argument is one side of it.  Of course the other side of it is that a lot of people right across the border are Sabres fans.   The truth, I believe, is someplace in the middle.   

I have brought up on this forum in the past, we live near Lewiston, just a couple miles from the Queenston-Lewiston Bridge. We can see Canada walking down the street.  We make frequent trips into Canada (Niagara Falls, St. Catherines, etc) because its a 10 minute drive for us.  Just casually walking around the outlet mall in St. Catherines, you can see more Sabres jerseys on people than just about any other team other than the Leafs (and its pretty close).

Now, those members on this board that DO live in Niagara Falls on the Canadian side..or Welland, or St. Catherines can speak to this better than I can.  I am not saying the are 100% Sabres country..but rather being close to the border does in fact make more Sabres fans there than in most other areas of Canada.

I'm not sure there is any data on this...but I think if you took a survey of the 250,000-or-so people living between the border and the Welland Canal, I would think you have a good percentage of Sabres Fans.  Not as much as in Erie county, but more than in the areas west of that.

Now, younger fans? probably not, but older fans, especially those 45+...I think a lot of them are. When they were growing up as kids, Sabres games were broadcast over local channels (NBC/Channel 2 in Buffalo), and that signal, the games, were well able to be watched by those people, as well as they get Buffalo sports talk crystal clear on the radio.  

Again, does that mean they are just as much fans of the Sabres as people across the border? Probably not, but to say they 'generally people who don't give a flying ***** about the Sabres and just want to see NHL hockey", I think that is exaggerating the lack of interest in the Sabres a bit too much.

[JoeSchmoe]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Your above argument is one side of it.  Of course the other side of it is that a lot of people right across the border are Sabres fans.   The truth, I believe, is someplace in the middle.   

I have brought up on this forum in the past, we live near Lewiston, just a couple miles from the Queenston-Lewiston Bridge. We can see Canada walking down the street.  We make frequent trips into Canada (Niagara Falls, St. Catherines, etc) because its a 10 minute drive for us.  Just casually walking around the outlet mall in St. Catherines, you can see more Sabres jerseys on people than just about any other team other than the Leafs (and its pretty close).

Now, those members on this board that DO live in Niagara Falls on the Canadian side..or Welland, or St. Catherines can speak to this better than I can.  I am not saying the are 100% Sabres country..but rather being close to the border does in fact make more Sabres fans there than in most other areas of Canada.

I'm not sure there is any data on this...but I think if you took a survey of the 250,000-or-so people living between the border and the Welland Canal, I would think you have a good percentage of Sabres Fans.  Not as much as in Erie county, but more than in the areas west of that.

Now, younger fans? probably not, but older fans, especially those 45+...I think a lot of them are. When they were growing up as kids, Sabres games were broadcast over local channels (NBC/Channel 2 in Buffalo), and that signal, the games, were well able to be watched by those people, as well as they get Buffalo sports talk crystal clear on the radio.  

Again, does that mean they are just as much fans of the Sabres as people across the border? Probably not, but to say they 'generally people who don't give a flying ***** about the Sabres and just want to see NHL hockey", I think that is exaggerating the lack of interest in the Sabres a bit too much.

I live in the other side. The closer you are to the border affects the chances of you being a Sabres fan. From people I know from NF and Ft Erie, Sabres fans are more than  50%. St Catharines is maybe 25%. West Niagara maybe 10%. That said, Sabres are most people's 2nd team throughout the region, and when they were good, most were ready to switch allegiances. Unfortunately, they fell off before people could form a long term connection with the team to the point when they're buying season tickets.

Same goes with the Bills. During the drought, hardly anybody had the Bills as their favourite team... But it was many people's 2nd favourite. Now they're nearly everybody's favourite. Fortunately for the Bills, they've been good for a while and there's no other teams in Canada to compete with.

[PromoTheRobot]

https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/local/buffalo-cant-afford-monumental-task-overseeing-keybank-center-if-erie-county-walks-away-lease-lawmaker-says/71-43b2e301-329b-4a10-bdb8-66befe7443e7

When you add in the economic uncertainty we face, this is a ticking time bomb for the Sabres and Bandits. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

[LGR4GM]

55 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/local/buffalo-cant-afford-monumental-task-overseeing-keybank-center-if-erie-county-walks-away-lease-lawmaker-says/71-43b2e301-329b-4a10-bdb8-66befe7443e7

When you add in the economic uncertainty we face, this is a ticking time bomb for the Sabres and Bandits. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

Yup. We are entertaining a dire situation where the Sabres may end up elsewhere. Dark dark times. 

[Stoner]

The arena needs 200 million in renovations? For what, specifically?

[Stoner]

21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yup. We are entertaining a dire situation where the Sabres may end up elsewhere. Dark dark times. 

Grandpa's been gone for awhile. His body just won't give up. I'm sorry... Terry murdered our team, either with the best of intentions or with maliciousness/extreme lack of care (up for debate).

AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF YOU SCHMUCKS ATTACKED ME MERCILESSLY FOR POINTING OUT WHAT HE WAS DOING. YOU SUPPORTED HIM. YOU DEFENDED HIM. YOU SAID HE AND THE MRS. HAD THE RIGHT TO DO IT. YOU TRIED TO TELL ME HE WAS LEARNING. GRANDPA'S BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS.

As for myself, I will move to Guatemala and live out my days with restful nights, my conscience clean as a rookie linesman's whistle.

[Porous Five Hole]

8 minutes ago, Stoner said:

Grandpa's been gone for awhile. His body just won't give up. I'm sorry... Terry murdered our team, either with the best of intentions or with maliciousness/extreme lack of care (up for debate).

AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF YOU SCHMUCKS ATTACKED ME MERCILESSLY FOR POINTING OUT WHAT HE WAS DOING. YOU SUPPORTED HIM. YOU DEFENDED HIM. YOU SAID HE AND THE MRS. HAD THE RIGHT TO DO IT. YOU TRIED TO TELL ME HE WAS LEARNING. GRANDPA'S BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS.

As for myself, I will move to Guatemala and live out my days with restful nights, my conscience clean as a rookie linesman's whistle.

Ok but that isn’t what this thread is about. This is an issue with the timing of the building lease and the local municipalities. It is conversation worth having. Please try to keep up. Especially you of all people who dislike conversation about GMing and other off-ice items. 

If you want to spin a web into this being Pegula’s fault, feel free. Or because of Pegula, the county doesn’t care about the team. Also, feel free.  But don’t expect actual conversation to take place. Just drive-by plop-o. 

Edited Tuesday at 03:38 PM by Porous Five Hole

[Stoner]

1 minute ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Ok but that isn’t what this thread is about. This is an issue with the timing of the building lease and the local municipalities. It is conversation worth having. Please try to keep up. Especially you of all people who dislike conversation about GMing and other off-ice items. 

If you want to spin a web into this being Pegula’s fault, feel free. Or because of Pegula, the county doesn’t care about the team. Also, feel free.  But don’t expect actual conversation to take place. Just drive-by plop-o. 

You keep up. I was responding to LGR's notion that the franchise might die. It's how board conversations work.

Let me guess. You didn't like my Pegula posts in 2015, 2017, 2019...

[Porous Five Hole]

1 minute ago, Stoner said:

You keep up. I was responding to LGR's notion that the franchise might die. It's how board conversations work.

Let me guess. You didn't like my Pegula posts in 2015, 2017, 2019...

Nothing to do with that. I’m just trying to isolate the specific subject matter of the thread. And you went sideways, again.  

[Flashsabre]

What a mess the entire franchise is.

If it weren’t for the Bills Stadium over runs I could see Pegula taking control of the arena and upgrading it.

Now not so much.

IF the Sabres had to go I would selfishly want to see them down the QEW in Hamilton who are doing a $290 million redesign of their arena.

Be interesting how the team spins everything after the season. 

[PromoTheRobot]

One possible solution is for Terry to sell some non-controlling shares of the Sabres (who are currently worth just under a billion) and take over the arena. Pay the city for the land and get the arena free or low cost from the county. Take the $$$ raised to pay for improvements. The question: is it worth doing? Do the Sabres and Bandits make more money as the building owners? Does anyone know what their lease says now?

[shrader]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

One possible solution is for Terry to sell some non-controlling shares of the Sabres (who are currently worth just under a billion) and take over the arena. Pay the city for the land and get the arena free or low cost from the county. Take the $$$ raised to pay for improvements. The question: is it worth doing? Do the Sabres and Bandits make more money as the building owners? Does anyone know what their lease says now?

Make the Sabres a full time outdoor team and play them in the new football stadium. Nothing could possibly go wrong. 

[PromoTheRobot]

8 minutes ago, shrader said:

Make the Sabres a full time outdoor team and play them in the new football stadium. Nothing could possibly go wrong. 

There was a time when the Lightning played all their games at Tropicana Field. Upper deck seasons were just $99.

[thewookie1]

I’m expecting the following

City and County fighting for a few months 

City offers Pegula the stadium and the surrounding land for 35mil with pre-agreed state/county funding for the arena’s renovations.

City clears a large part of their debt 

County “liberates” itself from stadium upkeep even though that’s only directly

Pegula gains direct control over both of his teams’ places of residence and further govt support.

[Porous Five Hole]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

One possible solution is for Terry to sell some non-controlling shares of the Sabres (who are currently worth just under a billion) and take over the arena. Pay the city for the land and get the arena free or low cost from the county. Take the $$$ raised to pay for improvements. The question: is it worth doing? Do the Sabres and Bandits make more money as the building owners? Does anyone know what their lease says now?

While I won’t put it as the likeliest or even a likely decision, but it could come down to NYS stepping in on the improvements with Terry buying the building and signing a long-term lease renewal.  
 

I don’t know the actual level of flack Albany took for the Bills stadium deal (recency bias could play a huge role), but the state has done this for most of their major teams (Mets, Yanks, NY Red Bulls, the Bills, etc). 

Edited Tuesday at 10:19 PM by Porous Five Hole

[Carmel Corn]

49 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I’m expecting the following

City and County fighting for a few months 

City offers Pegula the stadium and the surrounding land for 35mil with pre-agreed state/county funding for the arena’s renovations.

City clears a large part of their debt 

County “liberates” itself from stadium upkeep even though that’s only directly

Pegula gains direct control over both of his teams’ places of residence and further govt support.

Not sure what all this means (above), but I simply don’t see the city stepping up at all.  I honestly think the politicians in Buffalo and Erie county are indifferent to the possibility of the Sabres leaving.  I’m not trying to be political at all….just merely speculating that the city will not offer much of anything to improve the arena to keep the team in town.

Edited Tuesday at 11:06 PM by Carmel Corn

[thewookie1]

11 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Not sure what all this means (above), but I simply don’t see the city stepping up at all.  I honestly think the politicians in Buffalo and Erie county are indifferent to the possibility of the Sabres leaving.  I’m not trying to be political at all….just merely speculating that the city will not offer much of anything to improve the arena to keep the team in town.

The city would be idiotic to let the Sabres leave as its one of the few draws to downtown 

[Flashsabre]

There is also the possibility a Development group steps in and buys the arena with a vision for it.

[pastajoe]

 

[Sidc3000]

2 hours ago, pastajoe said:

 

Listened to this. I’m taking this with a grain of salt. This is the same organization that expressed their support for botterill one day and then fired him not long afterwards. 

[Goldseatsaud]

17 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

The city would be idiotic to let the Sabres leave as its one of the few draws to downtown 

The Idiots would let them walk