Will Devon Levi Help Make This Team Better Next Year?

[quill]

34 minutes ago, Mango said:

At scale, tossing away quality player development because we don't have anybody better us a huge part of why we're in this mess (the last 5 years).

Player development is fine and important, but not when the majority of players on the team are always in the development stage year after year.  Every year for the last 14 years the average age of our players has been about 25.5 years of age on 8 of those years and about 26.5 years of age on the other 6 years. When a team is the youngest team for a year or two and then develops into an older, wiser, better team, that is great, but when our team is almost always the youngest team year after year for 14 years in a row it's no wonder why we never get better. Add to that our chronic goal tending problems and it's easy to see why we are the habitual poster child for bottom dwellers in the NHL

Edited yesterday at 01:07 AM by quill
changed "the" to "our" and changed "a" to "our."

[Ogelthorpe]

8 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

I am not expecting Levi to even be on the big club next year. Maybe he gets a few games here and there but if they are relying on him as the starter, it's gonna be 16 years of no playoffs, or whatever the number is.

Can't be worse than UPL

[Broken Ankles]

7 hours ago, Mustache of God said:

The simple fact that Kevyn Adams targeted Levi as a cornerstone piece tells me that he is not going to pan out in the NHL. 

Not because I don't think Levi is talented, but entirely because Adams has the Merde Touch.

[Porous Five Hole]

9 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

 

 

 

Goodness, those blue uniforms and Freeze Frame make my Rochesterian heart sing

[Mango]

10 hours ago, quill said:

Player development is fine and important, but not when the majority of players on the team are always in the development stage year after year.  Every year for the last 14 years the average age of our players has been about 25.5 years of age on 8 of those years and about 26.5 years of age on the other 6 years. When a team is the youngest team for a year or two and then develops into an older, wiser, better team, that is great, but when our team is almost always the youngest team year after year for 14 years in a row it's no wonder why we never get better. Add to that our chronic goal tending problems and it's easy to see why we are the habitual poster child for bottom dwellers in the NHL

 

It is because a lot of those players aren't capable of developing in the NHL and need to be playing in the AHL. But we don't have anybody better. Sometimes that is by design. Sometimes its not. So then we bring them to the big club and the FO tells us all to be patient because they are developing. Then shockingly....they don't develop properly so we move on and bring in the next 20 year old. And around and around it goes. 

Keep anybody with talent in the AHL and lower clubs until they are without a doubt NHL ready. And if the Sabres tank because they have a bunch of cheap vets because of it, so be it. 

 

[Archie Lee]

10 hours ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Can't be worse than UPL

Except, in his 9 NHL starts this year, Levi was worse than UPL. 

I start every new season with hope.  But I  am not optimistic of how Levi (or most goalies) would perform playing 40 games in Ruff’s system. 

[Mustache of God]

17 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

McCloud? Tuch is good, so are Zucker and Greenway

The team just crawled out of 16th place in the conference in his 5th year as GM. Even an anosmic pig can root up a truffle every once in awhile.

[Believer]

51 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

But I  am not optimistic of how Levi (or most goalies) would perform playing 40 games in Ruff’s system. 

Interesting.

What is it about Ruff’s system you think makes it hard on goalies? 

I watch our D pinch in the O-zone and are open to breakaways and chasing 2 on 1’s too often. Is this what you mean?

Ruff must see this. KA must see this. Puts a real premium on goaltending.

Not ready to give up on UPL or promote Levi, but Sabres need better goaltending.

Is a trade for a proven goalie inevitable this offseason?

[Ctaeth]

At this point, he's proven it in the AHL and deserves a real shot next year.  How the Sabres end up incorporating him into their plans though is the tough part:

Does he start the year in the AHL and then is given a shot in the event of injury? 

Does he start off as the backup? 

Is he given a real chance to compete for the #1 spot in camp? 

I feel like all of these are definite possibilities and it really depends on how well the AHL has prepared him for this  

[Archie Lee]

5 minutes ago, Believer said:

Interesting.

What is it about Ruff’s system you think makes it hard on goalies? 

I watch our D pinch in the O-zone and are open to breakaways and chasing 2 on 1’s too often. Is this what you mean?

Ruff must see this. KA must see this. Puts a real premium on goaltending.

Not ready to give up on UPL or promote Levi, but Sabres need better goaltending.

Is a trade for a proven goalie inevitable this offseason?

I’ve watched a lot of hockey in my years, but I wouldn’t say that I’m skilled at identifying subtle differences in team structure. I can, though, see how good teams commit to team defence. Mostly though, my take on Ruff just comes from his recent history. Most years since he left Buffalo, his teams just give up a lot of goals (near bottom of the league). Perhaps he has been unfortunate and repeatedly gets dealt the bad hand of players who can’t execute a sound D system combined with a bad goalie. At some point it seems likely though, that he is a contributor to his own demise. 

That said, there is no denying that since he left Buffalo he has also had two seasons where his teams topped 50 wins (these are his only 2 winning seasons since he left). He should get credit for those. But it’s worth noting that the success was not sustained in either case, and that the following year those teams were out of the playoffs and Ruff was fired. He simply does not coach a sustainable, repeatable, structured system. For a franchise looking to develop young players and achieve a stretch of longterm sustained success, Ruff was the oddest of choices. He is the oldest coach in the league and has not had sustained success with a team in a quarter century. 

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, Ctaeth said:

At this point, he's proven it in the AHL and deserves a real shot next year.  How the Sabres end up incorporating him into their plans though is the tough part:

Does he start the year in the AHL and then is given a shot in the event of injury? 

Does he start off as the backup? 

Is he given a real chance to compete for the #1 spot in camp? 

I feel like all of these are definite possibilities and it really depends on how well the AHL has prepared him for this  

I mean... you can't plan to use him for 50 games when he hasn't even started 40 total in his career.  But it's also short-sighted to say he should be in the AHL.  Just put the guys out there who give you the best chance to win.  

He's hovering around 100 professional games now between AHL and NHL, and while his NHL season this year was a failure he bounced back in the AHL.  Not sure how that goes with other goalies in development, but it feels about right?  

UPL this season has played 1 month of hockey where his sv% was above .900, and in 15 games in february and march he has a save % of .850.  I know we gave him a contract, and seeing guys like swayman struggle behind a bad team makes you know it isn't all on him.  But man... he freaking sucks sometimes. 

He's all over the place and never looks comfortable.  Still struggles with the shortside crap that drives me insane, especially at his size angles are so important and he's so not disciplined.  Rebound control.  He's lost out there with the PK.  Like if anyone needs some time in the AHL to work on their game its probably UPL tbh.  He's worse now than at the start of the year, like he's been spending time at the carter hutton academy of blind goaltending.  

[xzy89c1]

17 hours ago, kas23 said:

The dude is a young goalie. No way he shoulders the load for the Sabres next year unless the Sabres get serious on adding a couple veteran defensive defensemen. That said, I don’t think he shoulders be in Buffalo if he is not playing the majority of games. He needs to play. Unfortunately, we’ll probably be stuck with UPL again, but we need a vet who is not >35 to compete with him. If the Caps can get Logan Thompson for a couple 3rd rounders, we should be able to get something comparable. But I won’t hold my breath. 

he is 24. no longer a young goalie.

He is a small goalie. Small goalies are an extreme rarity in the NHL. Successful small goalies are rarer. Saros from Preds was already a star by 23. Would have been up sooner but they had Renne.

It is malpractice by Adams that he has not trade for a starting caliber NHL goalie. Cannot win without one.

1 hour ago, Ctaeth said:

At this point, he's proven it in the AHL and deserves a real shot next year.  How the Sabres end up incorporating him into their plans though is the tough part:

Does he start the year in the AHL and then is given a shot in the event of injury? 

Does he start off as the backup? 

Is he given a real chance to compete for the #1 spot in camp? 

I feel like all of these are definite possibilities and it really depends on how well the AHL has prepared him for this  

He still let's in soft goals. In the AHL. He has not proven it.

[Ogelthorpe]

3 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

Except, in his 9 NHL starts this year, Levi was worse than UPL. 

I start every new season with hope.  But I  am not optimistic of how Levi (or most goalies) would perform playing 40 games in Ruff’s system. 

Umm, I thought we were talking about next year. Nice try though

[Archie Lee]

7 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

Umm, I thought we were talking about next year. Nice try though

Oh, my mistake. I understand now that Levi can’t be any worse than UPL next year, even though he was worse than UPL this year. Logic checks out. 

[Jorcus]

2 hours ago, Believer said:

Interesting.

What is it about Ruff’s system you think makes it hard on goalies? 

I watch our D pinch in the O-zone and are open to breakaways and chasing 2 on 1’s too often. Is this what you mean?

Ruff must see this. KA must see this. Puts a real premium on goaltending.

Not ready to give up on UPL or promote Levi, but Sabres need better goaltending.

Is a trade for a proven goalie inevitable this offseason?

 

I will take a stab a this. This article breaks down the 3 different styles of play when the puck is in defensive zone.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/systems-analyst-breaking-down-the-best-defensive-systems-for-playoffs/

 

For most of the year the Ruff system as far as I can tell was a hybrid or man to man type system where there was quick pressure on the man with the puck and if you were able to obtain possession it was quick up and out to catch teams on odd man rushes. This works as long as you don't turnover the puck and having the rush come back the other way in an odd man situation. I think most of our D men are fairly poor at defending 2 on 1`s and that includes Dahlin. Ruff was trying to use our mobile D and speed to always rush the play and keep the other team on it's heels. If we are not turning the puck over this system works pretty well. We score enough doing it but it does leave the team vulnerable to counter attacks. 

Something has changed in the month or two. We have become a zone team again. Everyone is boxing in trying to keep pucks to the outside and limiting multiple rebound attempts on the goalie. I think that is the issue UPL has the most trouble with. Finding the puck when people are crashing the net is tough but he is not the quickest guy down low. When you think back to when he was playing well last year this is how we were doing it. Playing zone requires people to block shots and that can take a toll on your players but it is probably the most effective way to limit chances. Once in awhile those block shot bonce out of the zone and you go an a break.

UPL can be effective in the zone system. You can not depend on him to be a scramble goal tender. I would describe him as leaky this year. Often just letting in one too many goals. It wasn't like he was getting chased off the ice all the time. He needed to be better but I think he can be.    

 

Edited 11 hours ago by Jorcus

[Ogelthorpe]

7 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Oh, my mistake. I understand now that Levi can’t be any worse than UPL next year, even though he was worse than UPL this year. Logic checks out. 

Keep that head in the sand my friend. Have a great day

[Porous Five Hole]

29 minutes ago, xzy89c1 said:

He still lets in soft goals. In the AHL. He has not proven it.

May I assume you’ve watched the majority of his Amerks games in 24-25?

37 GP, 6 shutouts, 2.22 GAA, 9.18 save percentage.  

Not anointing him G1 in Buffalo next year, but get outta here with sOfT gOaLs.  He also turned 23 in December. 

4 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Oh, my mistake. I understand now that Levi can’t be any worse than UPL next year, even though he was worse than UPL this year. Logic checks out. 

I am missing context from your snarky reply lol

UPL is about three years older and those are a big three years of development.
 

Levi’s college stats are better than UPL’s junior stats.  
Levi’s AHL stats are FAR better than UPL’s AHL stats. 

I agree that Levi sucked in Buffalo out of the gate in 2024, but it seems like you’re assuming a 22 year old goalie (turned 23 in Dec) isn’t expected to continue to improve?

[dudacek]

39 minutes ago, xzy89c1 said:

he is 24. no longer a young goalie.

That's a bit misleading. 24 is definitely a young goalie.

UPL is 26 and he is still a young goalie.

There are only 4 goalies 26 and younger to have played 40 NHL games this year: Wolf, Dostal, Kochetkov and Ersson. Wolf is the only one to do so at 24.

[Ctaeth]

53 minutes ago, xzy89c1 said:

He still let's in soft goals. In the AHL. He has not proven it.

Hes had 2 straight years of being a top 5 ahl goalie.  I suspect he is a candidate for player of the year in the ahl.  He leads the league in shutouts.  The team is dominating with him in goal.  Hes letting in like 2 per game.  There's nothing left to prove at the ahl level.  The only question left is how to integrate him

[thewookie1]

27 minutes ago, xzy89c1 said:

he is 24. no longer a young goalie.

Goalies are young until 28/29; they're weird like that

27 minutes ago, xzy89c1 said:

He is a small goalie. Small goalies are an extreme rarity in the NHL. Successful small goalies are rarer. Saros from Preds was already a star by 23. Would have been up sooner but they had Renne.

Wolf in CGY is a solid blueprint to run with for Levi. Small goalie who dominating in the AHL prior to coming to CGY.

27 minutes ago, xzy89c1 said:

It is malpractice by Adams that he has not trade for a starting caliber NHL goalie. Cannot win without one.

After Ullmark sure, but there aren't exactly starting goalies just raining from the heavens. Aside from Markstrom it has primarily been overpaid sieves and disappointing youngsters traded. 

27 minutes ago, xzy89c1 said:

He still let's in soft goals. In the AHL. He has not proven it.

Most goalies do from time to time, but I'd like him in Rochester most of next year anyway. 

[Archie Lee]

26 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

May I assume you’ve watched the majority of his Amerks games in 24-25?

37 GP, 6 shutouts, 2.22 GAA, 9.18 save percentage.  

Not anointing him G1 in Buffalo next year, but get outta here with sOfT gOaLs.  He also turned 23 in December. 

I am missing context from your snarky reply lol

UPL is about three years older and those are a big three years of development.
 

Levi’s college stats are better than UPL’s junior stats.  
Levi’s AHL stats are FAR better than UPL’s AHL stats. 

I agree that Levi sucked in Buffalo out of the gate in 2024, but it seems like you’re assuming a 22 year old goalie (turned 23 in Dec) isn’t expected to continue to improve?

You are right that my reply was snarky. I was sucked in by @oglethorp’s “nice try though” comment. This was my mistake. It is better to walk away from some posters on occasion. 

At any rate, the initial comment I was replying to was that Levi could not do worse than UPL. I simply pointed out that Levi has been worse than UPL in the NHL this season. So, it might be a stretch to conclude Levi can’t be worse than UPL when it has been demonstrated that he can be worse. I was not making any predictions about the future. 

[Doohickie]

On 4/2/2025 at 12:18 PM, bob_sauve28 said:

Will Devon Levi Help Make This Team Better Next Year?

Depends.  Who's coming back in the trade?

[Ogelthorpe]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

You are right that my reply was snarky. I was sucked in by @oglethorp’s “nice try though” comment. This was my mistake. It is better to walk away from some posters on occasion. 

At any rate, the initial comment I was replying to was that Levi could not do worse than UPL. I simply pointed out that Levi has been worse than UPL in the NHL this season. So, it might be a stretch to conclude Levi can’t be worse than UPL when it has been demonstrated that he can be worse. I was not making any predictions about the future. 

Soft and learn how to spell. 

[Porous Five Hole]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Depends.  Who's coming back in the trade?

Thumbs down from me because I’m a Levi truther. He’s got IT. I truly believe that.  

Sure I could be wrong and he’s doomed at the NHL level due to his size. He would need to be the 1% of the elite level…and I think he has it in him.  Remember, he’s still only 23.
 

His time might not be 2025-26 and so it is still UPL’s crease as G1 next year (thanks Kevyn).  But I predict Levi is the long term answer.  

[Kristian]

Nothing will make this team better.