The Sabres' Fan Mutiny Has Begun

[shrader]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

I'm starting to feel like I'm the only one who thinks Norris was just a first step, and the Sabres are actually going to shake up the forwards this summer.

I’m not sure what reaches the point of a “shake up”, but that image had every single forward slot staying internally. There’s absolutely zero chance that happens. I have can’t imagine that this has ever happened the the post-expansion era of hockey. 

[Thorner]

30 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

I'm starting to feel like I'm the only one who thinks Norris was just a first step, and the Sabres are actually going to shake up the forwards this summer.

 

Thanks for this. I'm always amazed at how little attention fans pay to ice time.

Post trade deadline — particularly with the issues of Norris, Zucker and Greenway — the Sabres seem to be on a bit of fact-finding mission:

• How do Benson and Kulich look higher up the lineup
• How does McLeod function as a 2C
• Can Quinn find his game reunited with Peterka
• Can Samuelsson find his game reunited with Dahlin
• What does Byram have to give without Dahlin
• What do they have in JBD
• Is Kozak a potential Sabre to start next year

 

 

I think culture, in the context of the video, is not about anything more than "these guys aren't playing as good as we think they should."

Personally I think its mostly a way for the coaching and management staff to avoid admitting they were wrong in how they evaluated and/or coached their prized kiddie corps.

You can’t find and interpret those facts given both the sample size and nature of when in the season the games are taking place 

That’s the Sabres continual folly 

22 minutes ago, shrader said:

I’m not sure what reaches the point of a “shake up”, but that image had every single forward slot staying internally. There’s absolutely zero chance that happens. I have can’t imagine that this has ever happened the the post-expansion era of hockey. 

Neither has missing the playoffs 14 straight years 

23 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The fear is he plays well the remaining games and GMKA decides he finally found Power’s Partner without exploring any other options 

 

32 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

• What do they have in JBD

 

 

 

[Thorner]

The sabres don’t need upgrades they just need to choose to fix things. Team D can just be improved and the special teams fixed: don’t improve the forwards to do it, just do it. 

Edited Friday at 06:23 PM by Thorner

[Mr Peabody]

I’d like to see at least a big tough top 6 winger and a big tough d man added.  Too much to ask.?

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Thorner said:

The sabres don’t need upgrades they just need to choose to fix things. Team D can just be improved and the special teams fixed: don’t improve the forwards to do it, just do it. 

Upgrading and fixing things are both things they should be doing. 

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Upgrading and fixing things are both things they should be doing. 

Don’t need to add any forwards though. Just fix them by choice 

Our forwards that are 19th in the league at even strength xG% are totally fine 

when you reach 19th, you know you can rest 

I mean, it’s 19th 

Our other metrics are all terrible. But, 19th at even strength! 

You have to give Adam’s credit for that, at least. 5 years, but we are 19th at even strength. 

🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️

[Archie Lee]

50 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

I'm starting to feel like I'm the only one who thinks Norris was just a first step, and the Sabres are actually going to shake up the forwards this summer.

I'm not intending to put you on the spot (it's the GM's job to make trades), but who do you think is most likely to be moved?  From a shake-up stand point, my view is that the Sabres have only 3 forwards who I think it could be said that them being traded could represent a shake-up:  Thompson, Tuch, and Peterka. 

Norris could be traded, but that would not be a shake-up.  Ditto for Zucker and McLeod, this early in their time with the Sabres.  I suppose they could trade Greenway, but that seems highly unlikely after just extending him. Benson and Kulich seem like they are in the long-term plans.  Thompson has the most team-friendly deal in the league; he's not going anywhere. Quinn could be dealt, but at this point his value is so low that I'm not sure we could get any player for him that would shake-up the lineup. Sabre fans won't fall for a 4th line shake-up again. 

That leaves Tuch and Peterka.  How good of a player or players would we need to get to trade either of them?

Of course, players could be packaged for the sort of players that would definitely shake-up the lineup as acquisitions.    

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

The sabres don’t need upgrades they just need to choose to fix things. Team D can just be improved and the special teams fixed: don’t improve the forwards to do it, just do it. 

 

Someone else mistakenly conflating team defence with defencemen and team offence with forwards

 

42 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I'm not intending to put you on the spot (it's the GM's job to make trades), but who do you think is most likely to be moved?  From a shake-up stand point, my view is that the Sabres have only 3 forwards who I think it could be said that them being traded could represent a shake-up:  Thompson, Tuch, and Peterka. 

Norris could be traded, but that would not be a shake-up.  Ditto for Zucker and McLeod, this early in their time with the Sabres.  I suppose they could trade Greenway, but that seems highly unlikely after just extending him. Benson and Kulich seem like they are in the long-term plans.  Thompson has the most team-friendly deal in the league; he's not going anywhere. Quinn could be dealt, but at this point his value is so low that I'm not sure we could get any player for him that would shake-up the lineup. Sabre fans won't fall for a 4th line shake-up again. 

That leaves Tuch and Peterka.  How good of a player or players would we need to get to trade either of them?

Of course, players could be packaged for the sort of players that would definitely shake-up the lineup as acquisitions.    

I agree Thompson is not getting traded and Norris, Greenway and Zucker are highly unlikely given their recent moves. 

McLeod only moves if his contract demands are silly and/or he's the centre going back in a deal for a better centre.

Leaving these three as the most likely to be traded:

• Quinn because he was a dismal failure as 2nd-line winger, and next to 2C his was the most obvious forward slot needing to be upgraded
• Tuch because he is an impending free agent on the wrong side of their window who has good value and may not want to re-sign at a price they'd like
• Peterka because he is an RFA, might be  hard sell to stay, and has the most value among their large group of smallish, skilled wingers

That's 8, leaving Benson and Kulich as the leftovers. Neither was good enough to be in the top 6 this year. Both, like Peterka and Quinn, represent what the team has a lot of.

Do you want one of them handed the role Quinn failed at? Do you take the risk they do the same, or do you acquire someone more proven? And if you do, do you need to keep them both? On top of Peterka and Quinn? Especially with Rosen, Helenius and Östlund coming?

When you know what's needed is a more disciplined, veteran, hardened group?

Nobody wants to trade their favourite kids, but if you really want to change the mix, one or more has to go. Me, I'd dangle Peterka because he's the one that could result in the most impactful return.

But really it's should be more about trying to acquire what they need to acquire and acknowledging that in order to do that, somebody's got to go.

Edited Friday at 07:29 PM by dudacek

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

I’m not sure what reaches the point of a “shake up”, but that image had every single forward slot staying internally. There’s absolutely zero chance that happens. I have can’t imagine that this has ever happened the the post-expansion era of hockey. 

I think Quinn's spot on this roster is tenous at best. There is a chance if he is in camp, its a 'prove it if you want a spot on this team' camp.

Peterka. He SHOULD be here, but is there any truth to him not wanting to be here and moved?

Greenway and Zucker.  Not exactly 2 guys you can rely on for 82 game each. I think you almost have to figure another winger (young guy from Rochester or a free agent) that will spit time with them.

Lafferty, Krebs, and Malenstyn all all signed, but all at $2m or less. I could seem one or two of them not being a regular on the roster.

Norris. Seeing he has hardly played, and who knows if he will even play the rest of the year, for all intents or purposes he basically will be a new guy next season.  There is some room for change.

 

[matter2003]

5 hours ago, OrangeSeatVertigo said:

You can't build an NHL team via the draft alone.  You need to get existing high level talents to come as free agents as well.  But they won't when they have palm trees and zero state taxes as an alternative. 

Hockey is a winter sport, and the last place today's single, rock star millionaire pro athletes want to be in the winter is WNY paying sky high taxes.   For example, show me 5 unmarried Bills players who stay in WNY for 5 minutes after the season is over.   Sucks, bc we know its a good place to be, but it is what it is. 

Adams handled that issue in a less than smooth way, but he was right that his hands are somewhat tied when it comes to improving the roster.   for f's sake, he's sitting on a pile of cap space, ready to spend it and the best players still have b lo at the top of their no-trade list.   The "No Trade" list is a testament to how rare the difference makers are in the NHL (that clubs have to agree to it to get them)

Not sure there is a solution here as you need to have a great organization and be good on the ice to attract top players and coaches, but you need top players and a great front office/coaches to be good. 

 Its a very nasty Catch-22 situation with the fan base taking the biggest hit.  

Toronto did a pretty good job of that during their rebuild.

[LTS]

Good on those who still have the energy to rehash the same comments about this team.  I don't know how you do it.

I've been away for a week and I didn't feel like I missed a thing with regards to the Sabres. Logged in here and the same discussions are happening in thread after thread.

That's not a knock at the posters, that's a knock at the franchise basically giving the fans that are left nothing to talk about.

[Porous Five Hole]

7 minutes ago, LTS said:

Good on those who still have the energy to rehash the same comments about this team.  I don't know how you do it.

I've been away for a week and I didn't feel like I missed a thing with regards to the Sabres. Logged in here and the same discussions are happening in thread after thread.

That's not a knock at the posters, that's a knock at the franchise basically giving the fans that are left nothing to talk about.

The Sabres have won three in a row while you’ve been gone, so maybe it’s you 😜

[Pimlach]

19 hours ago, Thorner said:

The sabres don’t need upgrades they just need to choose to fix things. Team D can just be improved and the special teams fixed: don’t improve the forwards to do it, just do it. 

Ask Joe Marino how he fixes the power play without improving the top 6.  They need  a playmaking center on the roster. 

[LTS]

22 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

The Sabres have won three in a row while you’ve been gone, so maybe it’s you 😜

If all it takes is me not paying attention for them to win, then I will gladly make that sacrifice.

if it takes me being out of town away from my family?  not so much, sorry. 🙂

[Flashsabre]

14 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Ask Joe Marino how he fixes the power play without improving the top 6.  They need  a playmaking center on the roster. 

1) You are right. A playmaking centre helps the PP immensely 

2) they need a new coaching staff.

I still laugh at that letter they sent out pumping the vastly improved PK. 😁 It’s still not great and as if anyone has decided to renew season tickets because the penalty kill has taken a slight uptick. Shows just how desperate they are for anything positive at this point.

[Archie Lee]

9 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

1) You are right. A playmaking centre helps the PP immensely 

2) they need a new coaching staff.

I still laugh at that letter they sent out pumping the vastly improved PK. 😁 It’s still not great and as if anyone has decided to renew season tickets because the penalty kill has taken a slight uptick. Shows just how desperate they are for anything positive at this point.

I agree a playmaking centre would help. I don’t understand why we don’t try two D on the PP and put Dahlin on the right flank with Byram or Power on the point. Dahlin is our best passer/playmaker and putting him on the flank gets him closer to the bumper and to the net. Also, the cross ice pass to Thompson for the one-timer is more difficult for the goalie to get to than the point pass; I just think Dahlin has the skills to make the PP run from there. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

On 3/27/2025 at 6:25 PM, LGR4GM said:

That's true. My thought is that Buffalo is cursed. 

I might be in the minority, but I don't see how this amounts to "injury prone":

 

Most of the games Quinn missed this year are due to being a healthy scratch. He had TWO freak injuries in one year ... hardly injury prone. The achilles injury sucks, but is not that uncommon - and most people would break their leg if they went into the boards the way he did.

When you add this to the (maybe gone?) falsehood about "he hasn't been the same since the injury" stuff (0.49 pts/game in 22-23 and 0.7 in 23-24), it seems like maybe we are all telling ourselves little white lies about JQ to make it easier when the Sabres cast him aside at the age of <checks notes>: 24, because of one bad year. 

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

I might be in the minority, but I don't see how this amounts to "injury prone":

 

Most of the games Quinn missed this year are due to being a healthy scratch. He had TWO freak injuries in one year ... hardly injury prone. The achilles injury sucks, but is not that uncommon - and most people would break their leg if they went into the boards the way he did.

When you add this to the (maybe gone?) falsehood about "he hasn't been the same since the injury" stuff (0.49 pts/game in 22-23 and 0.7 in 23-24), it seems like maybe we are all telling ourselves little white lies about JQ to make it easier when the Sabres cast him aside at the age of <checks notes>: 24, because of one bad year. 

I don't think his injury prone. I'd like to give him about 15 games next year to prove himself, but it has to been on the table to move off him if needed. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I don't think his injury prone. I'd like to give him about 15 games next year to prove himself, but it has to been on the table to move off him if needed. 

I was just quoting you because you were the last post in that odd exchange that I saw. I was mostly agreeing with you, but did not state it. But I said it with my mind 😉

Yeah, JQ needs to pull his head out of his arse, for sure. I wish the Sabres had the roster construction that does not force them to make those choices with a 24-yr old. Oh well.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

I was just quoting you because you were the last post in that odd exchange that I saw. I was mostly agreeing with you, but did not state it. But I said it with my mind 😉

Yeah, JQ needs to pull his head out of his arse, for sure. I wish the Sabres had the roster construction that does not force them to make those choices with a 24-yr old. Oh well.

Good news is, if he can't cut it, there's about 4 guys behind him who might. 

[French Collection]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't think his injury prone. I'd like to give him about 15 games next year to prove himself, but it has to been on the table to move off him if needed. 

I was in the camp saying he could be a 50-60 point guy. He just looks so overmatched, can’t win a puck battle, can’t beat Dmen with speed or moves. He is also not getting near the net often enough to use his shot.

15 games seems like a reasonable number for him to prove his worth. I would not be upset if he was an added piece in a deal that brought back some actual help. He could do better elsewhere but you can’t live in fear, just do something and deal with the consequences. 

[LGR4GM]

[Sidc3000]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't think his injury prone. I'd like to give him about 15 games next year to prove himself, but it has to been on the table to move off him if needed. 

If he stays healthy. 

[Brawndo]

 

 

I don’t know about that I can think of one or two things they can say 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:20 PM by Brawndo

[JustOutsideChicago]

6 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

 

I don’t know about that I can think of one or two things they can say 

 

It was quite lame that he decided to not give Fairburn a quote for hill attendance article last week.