The Sabres' Fan Mutiny Has Begun

[matter2003]

21 minutes ago, shrader said:

I guess I wouldn’t call that approaching, but that’s not really all that important. NHL players get a very sweet deal given the money differences between the two leagues. Guaranteed contracts, higher salaries due to smaller rosters, guaranteed a larger portion of the revenue pie than the NFL… They’ve done very well for themselves. 

True, but on a per game basis nobody even is approaching NFL players salaries. NFL is also, by far, the highest revenue generating sports league in the world, nearly double the 2nd place MLB. NFL approaching $21 Billion per year in revenue, MLB is at $12.1 Billion.

Also, out of the top 100 highest rated TV shows every year, around 75 of them are NFL games. A random week 12 NFL game draws more eyes than 99.5% of anything on TV. Super Bowl is, by far, the most watched TV show in the US every year and one of the most watched events in the world each year.

To put in comparison...the Apollo 11 Moon Landing was considered one of the most watched events of all time with 125-150 million viewers.  This past years Super Bowl averaged 127.7 Million Viewers.

Edited Friday at 01:05 PM by matter2003

[That Aud Smell]

15 hours ago, Thorner said:

Posts like this make me happy. Thanks for reading my character sketch. And thanks for finding THE perfect screenshot to capture the spirit of the thing. What a performance that was by Macy. 

15 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I always have my facts straight. Now I'll be a dick. 

So he gets injured and can't workout in 2022 then comes back and gets injured after not working because he was injured. You see the problem with your logic timbits? You claim he gets injured because he doesn't workout, dude literally got injured working out and then yea... was injured. It's self fulfilling prophecy but it still counters your OP which was factually nonsense. 

Jack Quinn isn't getting injured because he's too lazy to workout. 

Man, chill with that.

Also, I think you're mostly missing @Sidc3000's original point on this issue.

15 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

Timbit, 😂 cute.  Please show me where I said Quinn (or any player) didn’t do off season workouts? You bolded where I questioned if the Sabres TRACKED OR EMPHASIZED off season workouts.  

That's how I read your concern as originally stated. And it squared with my memory of reading about Quinn's account of his achilles injury -- and how I was less than pleased with the implication that he may have been engaged in some super fitness frolic of his own creation (or the creation of one of his buddies from Cobden).

[LGR4GM]

17 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

True, but on a per game basis nobody even is approaching NFL players salaries. NFL is also, by far, the highest revenue generating sports league in the world, nearly double the 2nd place MLB. NFL approaching $21 Billion per year in revenue, MLB is at $12.1 Billion.

Also, out of the top 100 highest rated TV shows every year, around 75 of them are NFL games. A random week 12 NFL game draws more eyes than 99.5% of anything on TV. Super Bowl is, by far, the most watched TV show in the US every year and one of the most watched events in the world each year.

To put in comparison...the Apollo 11 Moon Landing was considered one of the most watched events of all time with 125-150 million viewers.  This past years Super Bowl averaged 127.7 Million Viewers.

1969 US Population: Approx 202million ppl or 61.8% watched

2025 Superbowl: Approx 340million ppl or 36.7% watched

[mjd1001]

On 3/26/2025 at 11:23 PM, GoPuckYourself said:

Just watched the new EMBEDDED the Sabres put out, it tells me all I need to know (Adams isn't going anywhere) about this sorry franchise, Adams literally consults everyone especially Terry about every move. This whole thing makes me absolutely ill that the owner is this involved in hockey moves other than signing the checks for players. We're absolutely screwed until Terry sells the team imo.

 

I guess of everyone in the room Ruff is the most 'outisder', as he has been here the least time...I guess?  Also he would be closest to the players working with them everday.

When I hear Ruff say once or twice in there (and in a couple other interviews) where he hints, or outright says they need a change of culture of some kind.....I'm curious to exactly what he is thinking? Specific players?  The way the entire organization has trained/coached before?

[GoPuckYourself]

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I guess of everyone in the room Ruff is the most 'outisder', as he has been here the least time...I guess?  Also he would be closest to the players working with them everday.

When I hear Ruff say once or twice in there (and in a couple other interviews) where he hints, or outright says they need a change of culture of some kind.....I'm curious to exactly what he is thinking? Specific players?  The way the entire organization has trained/coached before?

I'm almost certain in that room he means players, I'm highly doubting he's saying a coaching change with all the coaches sitting in the room.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I'm almost certain in that room he means players, I'm highly doubting he's saying a coaching change with all the coaches sitting in the room.

idk, he might be telling the coaches we need to change how we do things

[mjd1001]

7 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I'm almost certain in that room he means players, I'm highly doubting he's saying a coaching change with all the coaches sitting in the room.

Yeah, I just would like to know who those players are.

I'm guessing Cozens was one?  It seemed obvious the entire room, including Ruff, were fine with making that move.  For all I complained about Cozens play, he seemed like a nice guy and he seemed to put effort forward, so I wonder what the issue was? 

If Pegula is giving Ruff a big say in the roster, I wonder if that may lead to more changes in the offseason.  Basically, he doesn't know the guys that well when he walked in the room, now he spent a whole year with them and its time to make more major changes?

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Yeah, I just would like to know who those players are.

I'm guessing Cozens was one?  It seemed obvious the entire room, including Ruff, were fine with making that move.  For all I complained about Cozens play, he seemed like a nice guy and he seemed to put effort forward, so I wonder what the issue was? 

If Pegula is giving Ruff a big say in the roster, I wonder if that may lead to more changes in the offseason.  Basically, he doesn't know the guys that well when he walked in the room, now he spent a whole year with them and its time to make more major changes?

He can't play defense for *****. 

[Archie Lee]

22 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I guess of everyone in the room Ruff is the most 'outisder', as he has been here the least time...I guess?  Also he would be closest to the players working with them everday.

When I hear Ruff say once or twice in there (and in a couple other interviews) where he hints, or outright says they need a change of culture of some kind.....I'm curious to exactly what he is thinking? Specific players?  The way the entire organization has trained/coached before?

The irony, of course, is that the culture in the room that Ruff was referring to, was created by Adams, the man heading the meeting in the room they were in. Like last off-season, we are back to Adams blaming the players rather than taking responsibility for his own role in creating the mess. Last year the narrative was accountability, this year it appears we are headed towards off-season training as the area of focus. 

Also, Ruff has now finished out of the playoffs in 7 of his last 10 years as a head coach. He is the oldest coach in the NHL. This is the man we hired with the goal of long-term success. You can’t make this stuff up. 

[Thorner]

 

[That Aud Smell]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He can't play defense for *****. 

I've heard multiple NBA players say that, at the end of the day, playing good defense is almost entirely about effort, commitment, and focus.

That's basketball.

I wonder if it's essentially the same in pro hockey.

1 minute ago, Thorner said:

 

that is an 80-point team. (unless they bring in real coaches and somehow get the special teams humming.)

[OrangeSeatVertigo]

You can't build an NHL team via the draft alone.  You need to get existing high level talents to come as free agents as well.  But they won't when they have palm trees and zero state taxes as an alternative. 

Hockey is a winter sport, and the last place today's single, rock star millionaire pro athletes want to be in the winter is WNY paying sky high taxes.   For example, show me 5 unmarried Bills players who stay in WNY for 5 minutes after the season is over.   Sucks, bc we know its a good place to be, but it is what it is. 

Adams handled that issue in a less than smooth way, but he was right that his hands are somewhat tied when it comes to improving the roster.   for f's sake, he's sitting on a pile of cap space, ready to spend it and the best players still have b lo at the top of their no-trade list.   The "No Trade" list is a testament to how rare the difference makers are in the NHL (that clubs have to agree to it to get them)

Not sure there is a solution here as you need to have a great organization and be good on the ice to attract top players and coaches, but you need top players and a great front office/coaches to be good. 

 Its a very nasty Catch-22 situation with the fan base taking the biggest hit.  

[Archie Lee]

9 minutes ago, Thorner said:

 

That line-up comes in around $50k under the cap. And, while he is probably $1 million high on Bernard-Docker’s deal, he might be a combined $5-6 million low on Peterka and Byram. 
 

From the angle of: “Could this line-up make the playoffs…once?”  Well, Montreal might make the playoffs this year. I don’t think their line-up is better. So, yeah, it could. But not likely with Ruff as HC. And, obviously, UPL would need a big bounce back year. 

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

He can't play defense for *****. 

Oh, I agree. But the in the video they seemed to focus on the word "culture" a lot.

Unless with regard to Cozens, they use "culture" to really mean "won't do a damn thing we tell him to do."?

Edited Friday at 04:16 PM by mjd1001

[LGR4GM]

52 minutes ago, Thorner said:

 

[Timonthy 76]

17 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

Um, the Leafs are worth  4 billion dollars. Hell the Sabres are valued at 1.15 billion according to CNBC 

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/20/cnbc-official-nhl-team-valuations-2024.html

The Leafs on the open market would be worth at least $7 billion, Bell when they sold their 37.5% to Rogers were only able to sell it to Rogers 

[Mango]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I guess of everyone in the room Ruff is the most 'outisder', as he has been here the least time...I guess?  Also he would be closest to the players working with them everday.

When I hear Ruff say once or twice in there (and in a couple other interviews) where he hints, or outright says they need a change of culture of some kind.....I'm curious to exactly what he is thinking? Specific players?  The way the entire organization has trained/coached before?

 

2 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I'm almost certain in that room he means players, I'm highly doubting he's saying a coaching change with all the coaches sitting in the room.

I think both are true. 

The team needs a culture change. Yes. That is the players.

But Adams has preached culture since he came in. So it is certainly a slap in the face, however indirect. Then Adams stuck Ruff with the entire previous staff to keep pushing said culture. So a big part of the need for culture change is the GM and coaches in the room. 

Ruff is a pro though, so he isn't yelling that they sucked. He is saying "we need a culture change". 

It is clear to me that Lindy commands as the alpha in the room. Now it is up to Pegula to be willing to actually clear the deck of the rest of these schmoes. 

[That Aud Smell]

24 minutes ago, Mango said:

It is clear to me that Lindy commands as the alpha in the room. Now it is up to Pegula to be willing to actually clear the deck of the rest of these schmoes. 

Hear, hear.

[mjd1001]

31 minutes ago, Mango said:

Ruff is a pro though, so he isn't yelling that they sucked. He is saying "we need a culture change". 

It is clear to me that Lindy commands as the alpha in the room. Now it is up to Pegula to be willing to actually clear the deck of the rest of these schmoes. 

I don't think they are going to come out and tell us, but if this is true...I don't care so much to know who are the guys he thinks need to go (Actually, I WOULD like to know that but...) 

I'm just as interested in knowing who are the guys that he thinks ARE the leaders, ARE the ones he wants here.

The only clue I think we have is ice time. Who gets the most, and who has been increasing in ice time as the year has gone on and he got to know them:

-Tuch leads among forwards. Thompson is 2nd. 

As far as who has gotten MORE ice time as the season has gone on:

-Most notable is probably McLeod. He has more time as the year has gone on, in the past month he is by far and away the leader in ice time among forwards. In the past month he is averaging 19.5 minutes per game, with several games over 22 minutes (and one almost at 24 minutes).  Those are big, BIG time minutes for any foward. This coming from a guy who, earlier in the year, was averaging 14-15 minutes per game.

-Krebs was only getting about 11 minutes of ice time the first month. Since then he is now around 14 minutes.

-When Peterka has not been injured, his ice time has gone up. First half of the season he averaged just over 17 minutes per game, since then almost 19.

Before he was traded, Cozens Ice time went down through the season. From 18.5 minutes in October, to 17.5 minutes in November, to 16.5 minutes in December. When Tage got hurt Cozens went back up to 17.5 minutes in January but it didn't last...16.25 minutes in Feb and barely 16 minuetes even in March until he got traded. A definite downtrend in ice time.

None of the other forwards showed a clear trend.  Kulich, Benson, Quinn, some ups and downs in ice time but no clear trend either way.

Also hard to pick a trend among D-men. Dahlin leads, followed by Byram and Power...but no set trend in regard to increases or decreases over the season.

Based on how much Lindy is using McLeod and the workload increase he is getting...it will be interesting to see next season, if McLeod is signed....if they go with rotating "A"'s again if he gets one in place of Cozens.

 

Edited Friday at 04:15 PM by mjd1001

[shrader]

39 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I think both are true. 

The team needs a culture change. Yes. That is the players.

But Adams has preached culture since he came in. So it is certainly a slap in the face, however indirect. Then Adams stuck Ruff with the entire previous staff to keep pushing said culture. So a big part of the need for culture change is the GM and coaches in the room. 

Ruff is a pro though, so he isn't yelling that they sucked. He is saying "we need a culture change". 

It is clear to me that Lindy commands as the alpha in the room. Now it is up to Pegula to be willing to actually clear the deck of the rest of these schmoes. 

And it means a hell of a lot more when it’s the new guy saying you need that culture change. I know it’s a bit crazy to call Ruff the new guy, but in this scenario, he is. 

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't think they are going to come out and tell us, but if this is true...I don't care so much to know who are the guys he thinks need to go (Actually, I WOULD like to know that but...) 

I'm just as interested in knowing who are the guys that he thinks ARE the leaders, ARE the ones he wants here.

The only clue I think we have is ice time. Who gets the most, and who has been increasing in ice time as the year has gone on and he got to know them:

-Tuch leads among forwards. Thompson is 2nd. 

As far as who has gotten MORE ice time as the season has gone on:

-Most notable is probably McLeod. He has more time as the year has gone on, in the past month he is by far and away the leader in ice time among forwards.

-Krebs was only getting about 11 minutes of ice time the first month. Since then he is now around 14 minutes.

-When Peterka has not been injured, his ice time has gone up. First half of the season he averaged just over 17 minutes per game, since then almost 19.

Before he was traded, Cozens Ice time went down through the season. From 18.5 minutes in October, to 17.5 minutes in November, to 16.5 minutes in December. When Tage got hurt Cozens went back up to 17.5 minutes in January but it didn't last...16.25 minutes in Feb and barely 16 minuetes even in March until he got traded. A definite downtrend in ice time.

None of the other forwards showed a clear trend.  Kulich, Benson, Quinn, some ups and downs in ice time but no clear trend either way.

Also hard to pick a trend among D-men. Dahlin leads, followed by Byram and Power...but no set trend in regard to increases or decreases over the season.

Based on how much Lindy is using McLeod and the workload increase he is getting...it will be interesting to see next season, if McLeod is signed....if they go with rotating "A"'s again if he gets one in place of Cozens.

 

To the bolded. I think that part of this their ice time was fairly accurate out of the gate. Benson and Kulich are young and do things the right way, and maybe ice time doesn't change but they often move up the line up.

Quinn is averaging 2 less minutes per night in March (13:17) than he did February (15:14), and 3 less minutes compared to January (16:17). That seems significant. It is his low water market by nearly 2 full minutes. (December 14:54)

[DarthEbriate]

The only culture change I really care about is the owner publicly stating that EEE is over, and we're back to spending to the cap on players and to whatever is necessary on coaches, assistants, and scoutings, as directed by my buddy Grand Ruff Lindy(tarkin). Make my Death Star Stanley Cup operational!

That, and delicious yogurt and cheese.

The only two cultures I care about are trying to win with every fibre of their beings and dairy.

[That Aud Smell]

26 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

The only two cultures I care about are trying to win with every fibre of their beings and dairy.

Yo - let's put some respect on the name of yeast culture too.

Bread and beer!

[DarthEbriate]

11 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Yo - let's put some respect on the name of yeast culture too.

Bread and beer!

And yeast.

Three cultures. The only cultures to care about are trying to win in all capacities including spending, dairy, and yeast. And fear and surprise.

Four cultures!

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, Thorner said:

 

 

I'm starting to feel like I'm the only one who thinks Norris was just a first step, and the Sabres are actually going to shake up the forwards this summer.

 

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't think they are going to come out and tell us, but if this is true...I don't care so much to know who are the guys he thinks need to go (Actually, I WOULD like to know that but...) 

I'm just as interested in knowing who are the guys that he thinks ARE the leaders, ARE the ones he wants here.

The only clue I think we have is ice time. Who gets the most, and who has been increasing in ice time as the year has gone on and he got to know them:

-Tuch leads among forwards. Thompson is 2nd. 

As far as who has gotten MORE ice time as the season has gone on:

-Most notable is probably McLeod. He has more time as the year has gone on, in the past month he is by far and away the leader in ice time among forwards. In the past month he is averaging 19.5 minutes per game, with several games over 22 minutes (and one almost at 24 minutes).  Those are big, BIG time minutes for any foward. This coming from a guy who, earlier in the year, was averaging 14-15 minutes per game.

-Krebs was only getting about 11 minutes of ice time the first month. Since then he is now around 14 minutes.

-When Peterka has not been injured, his ice time has gone up. First half of the season he averaged just over 17 minutes per game, since then almost 19.

Before he was traded, Cozens Ice time went down through the season. From 18.5 minutes in October, to 17.5 minutes in November, to 16.5 minutes in December. When Tage got hurt Cozens went back up to 17.5 minutes in January but it didn't last...16.25 minutes in Feb and barely 16 minuetes even in March until he got traded. A definite downtrend in ice time.

None of the other forwards showed a clear trend.  Kulich, Benson, Quinn, some ups and downs in ice time but no clear trend either way.

Also hard to pick a trend among D-men. Dahlin leads, followed by Byram and Power...but no set trend in regard to increases or decreases over the season.

Based on how much Lindy is using McLeod and the workload increase he is getting...it will be interesting to see next season, if McLeod is signed....if they go with rotating "A"'s again if he gets one in place of Cozens.

 

Thanks for this. I'm always amazed at how little attention fans pay to ice time.

Post trade deadline — particularly with the issues of Norris, Zucker and Greenway — the Sabres seem to be on a bit of fact-finding mission:

• How do Benson and Kulich look higher up the lineup
• How does McLeod function as a 2C
• Can Quinn find his game reunited with Peterka
• Can Samuelsson find his game reunited with Dahlin
• What does Byram have to give without Dahlin
• What do they have in JBD
• Is Kozak a potential Sabre to start next year

 

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

The only culture change I really care about is the owner publicly stating that EEE is over, and we're back to spending to the cap on players and to whatever is necessary on coaches, assistants, and scoutings, as directed by my buddy Grand Ruff Lindy(tarkin). Make my Death Star Stanley Cup operational!

That, and delicious yogurt and cheese.

The only two cultures I care about are trying to win with every fibre of their beings and dairy.

 

I think culture, in the context of the video, is not about anything more than "these guys aren't playing as good as we think they should."

Personally I think its mostly a way for the coaching and management staff to avoid admitting they were wrong in how they evaluated and/or coached their prized kiddie corps.

Edited Friday at 05:45 PM by dudacek