The Sabres' Fan Mutiny Has Begun

[shrader]

48 minutes ago, Weave said:

Y’all are so behind.  I was mutiny-ing before it was cool.

Leading edge, baby.

That’s not Edge, it’s the Rock. 😉

[Carmel Corn]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

The new stadium overages have been offset and then some by the equity sale of the Bills alone and Pegula doesn’t need a dime of Sabres money to meet his cost overrun obligations for the new stadium. I think he simply doesn’t give a crap about the Sabres, simple as that.

IDK with respect to giving a crap.  IMHO - his ego is the problem….where he feels he’s so smart and doesn’t need any help from an outside proven NHL POHO type of leader.  He can’t get out of his own way, which means no Calvary is coming to save this franchise.

[dudacek]

I’ve seen this movie before.

I think the “I just want them to burn so badly he’ll be forced to fix it” posts are silly. If he knew how to fix it, he would.

From Terry’s point of view, I’m pretty sure there’s not much difference in the state of the fan base now and when he fired Tim Murray.

”Mutiny” and “some hope” have been nadir and apex we’ve vacillated between ever since as we’ve cycled between promises and failures. Neither has “forced” Terry to do anything.

He’ll do what he wants for as long as he wants to.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I’ve seen this movie before.

I think the “I just want them to burn so badly he’ll be forced to fix it” posts are silly. If he knew how to fix it, he would.

From Terry’s point of view, I’m pretty sure there’s not much difference in the state of the fan base now and when he fired Tim Murray.

”Mutiny” and “some hope” have been nadir and apex we’ve vacillated between ever since as we’ve cycled between promises and failures. Neither has “forced” Terry to do anything.

He’ll do what he wants for as long as he wants to.

oh, I don't think there is hope. I just think a legit fan revolt has begun where plunging attendance and general apathy are the order of the day. Terry could swing that all with a new gm and some new coaches, but I don't hope for that. As you say, he will do what he wants for as long as he wants. There is no hope. 

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Y’all are so behind.  I was mutiny-ing before it was cool.

Leading edge, baby.

“The eye-brow was the sign!”

[Thorner]

Utter defeatist bs in this thread 

shout it from the roof tops. Don’t give in. Show your spirit. Don’t keel over and die because some will call you silly for trying. 

it’s not about convincing anyone and never has been. It’s about demonstrating that it’s not good enough. That in YOUR heart it’s not good enough.

the battle is only truly lost when they’ve convinced you you can’t win it 

Edited Wednesday at 05:37 PM by Thorner

[dudacek]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

oh, I don't think there is hope. I just think a legit fan revolt has begun where plunging attendance and general apathy are the order of the day. Terry could swing that all with a new gm and some new coaches, but I don't hope for that. As you say, he will do what he wants for as long as he wants. There is no hope. 

What is actually different from last year around this time in terms of fan attitudes?

They re-ignited us a little by hiring Lindy.

Just like they reignited us before that with all the goals and the mad dash to 9th by Granato’s kiddie corps

And with Taylor Hall and smiling Ralph Krueger

And by adding “generational defenceman” Rasmus Dahlin

To go with “franchise centre” Jack Eichel

And Kyle Okposo and Ryan O’Reilly and Ristolainen/Zadorov and…

Fan outrage and apathy probably will force Pegula to do “something” but fix the team? I don’t buy it.

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What is actually different from last year around this time in terms of fan attitudes?

They re-ignited us a little by hiring Lindy.

Just like they reignited us before that with all the goals and the mad dash to 9th by Granato’s kiddie corps

And with Taylor Hall and smiling Ralph Krueger

And by adding “generational defenceman” Rasmus Dahlin

To go with “franchise centre” Jack Eichel

And Kyle Okposo and Ryan O’Reilly and Ristolainen/Zadorov and…

Fan outrage and apathy probably will force Pegula to do “something” but fix the team? I don’t buy it.

I think you are confused. I don't think fan apathy will force Pegula to do anything. 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I think you are confused. I don't think fan apathy will force Pegula to do anything. 

Could make him shift his thinking on firing Adams 

[dudacek]

32 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Utter defeatist bs in this thread 

shout it from the roof tops. Don’t give in. Show your spirit. Don’t keel over and die because some will call you silly for trying. 

it’s not about convincing anyone and never has been. It’s about demonstrating that it’s not good enough. That in YOUR heart it’s not good enough.

the battle is only truly lost when they’ve convinced you you can’t win it 

What battle are you talking about?

The battle to get the GM fired? The battle to get Terry to do something? The battle to keep your self invested as a fan? You’ve got power in all those areas.

If you’re talking about the battle to fix the Buffalo Sabres you have about as much power in that battle as you did in the Sabres win last night.

And no, that doesn’t mean you should stop trying. I may disagree with how that trying might manifest itself, but I don’t believe that even the biggest eeyores on this site have done that.

Edited Wednesday at 06:09 PM by dudacek

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What battle are you talking about?

The battle to get the GM fired? The battle to get Terry to do something? The battle to keep your self invested as a fan? You’ve got power in all those areas.

If you’re talking about the battle to fix the Buffalo Sabres you have about as much power in that battle as you did in the Sabres win last night.

And no, that doesn’t mean you should stop trying. I may disagree with how that can manifest itself, but I don’t believe that even the biggest eeyores on this site have done that.

When the obstacle is the mere changing of a human mind it’s never an unthinkable pursuit. I mean 12 angry men is one of the best films ever. We won a hockey game against Vegas because of the united choice of several thousand booing Hertl - this actually happened. 

Of course getting Adams fired could lead to the team being fixed. If you randomly shuffle the deck it won’t likely come up ace but you have to be pretty unlucky to get the Joker 

Speaking nothing of accountability. And the message it may send. Adams should be accountable

we have gone down the wrong road if we are willingly calling accountability pointless just because it may not get us what we feel is personally owed 

how sad that would be 

Edited Wednesday at 06:13 PM by Thorner

[Weave]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

Sabrespacers, I stand before you today with a simple message: never lose hope. We all know that this franchise has its ups and downs, mostly downs. There are moments that test our patience, our resilience, and our very spirit. But through all the trials, there is one thing that can never be taken away from us—hope.

Hope is not just a feeling. It’s a force. A quiet, steady light that flickers in the darkest of times. Hope is the belief that even when we don’t see the way forward, there is one. It’s the whisper in your heart telling you to keep moving forward, even when the road ahead seems uncertain. It’s the courage to take that first step, even when you can’t see the whole staircase.

It’s easy to be overwhelmed when the season doesn’t go as planned. The challenges we face can feel insurmountable, and there may be moments when you feel like giving up. But I want to remind you of something: every obstacle you face is not a roadblock, it’s a stepping stone. Every time you get knocked down, you have the choice to rise again. Every challenge is an opportunity to grow stronger, to become more resilient, and to become the fan you are meant to be.

In times of hardship, remember that hope doesn’t always shout loudly—it often whispers. It’s in the small, quiet moments when we choose to believe that things can get better. It’s in the times when you choose to smile, even when it’s hard, when you continue to tune in and cheer on the Sabres. Those moments, though they may seem small, are the building blocks of resilience.

And the beauty of hope is that it’s contagious. When you hold on to it, you inspire other Sabrespacers to do the same. By staying hopeful, by choosing to keep moving forward with faith, you ignite a spark that can light the way for others who are struggling in the dark.

So when the franchise feels like it's lost it's way, when you’re unsure of where the journey is taking you as a fan, hold tight to hope. Trust that there is a purpose in every twist and turn. The storm will pass, the clouds will clear, and the franchise will emerge from it stronger, wiser, and more capable than ever before.

In closing, I want you to remember this: Hope is not the absence of fear, but the courage to face it. It’s not about having all the answers, but about trusting that the path will unfold, one step at a time. And with every step, the franchise is moving toward something greater than you could ever imagine.

So, no matter where you are in your fandom, no matter what you faced yesterday, today or tomorrow, keep your heart open to the possibility of better days. Hold on to hope, and let it guide you.

[K-9]

26 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What is actually different from last year around this time in terms of fan attitudes?

They re-ignited us a little by hiring Lindy.

Just like they reignited us before that with all the goals and the mad dash to 9th by Granato’s kiddie corps

And with Taylor Hall and smiling Ralph Krueger

And by adding “generational defenceman” Rasmus Dahlin

To go with “franchise centre” Jack Eichel

And Kyle Okposo and Ryan O’Reilly and Ristolainen/Zadorov and…

Fan outrage and apathy probably will force Pegula to do “something” but fix the team? I don’t buy it.

My mutiny has nothing to do with Pegula doing something to fix the team or not. My mutiny is beyond repair at this point. He’s played me for a sucker for too long and even if he fixed everything overnight and wins a cup next year, I will NOT renew my season tickets, I will NOT buy individual game tickets, and I will NOT spend another dime on merchandise. He doesn’t give a flying F about me as a decades long ST holder and won’t be sorry that I won’t renew. 

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Mustache of God said:

At this point Pegula is using the Sabres operating losses as a giant tax write-off to offset the new stadium overages. He's not making any changes because this is what he wants.

Billionaires don't keep much cash on hand (relative to net worth) and avoid taxes by taking out loans rather than extracting from their businesses because they would both lower the value of the business and have to pay additional taxes compared to loans. 

The Bills are willing to restructure anybody and everybody who needs to in order to manipulate the cap. Which requires a lot of liquid cash every year.  

Curious if a big part of the reason the Sabres exist (at this point) is that Terry uses them to leverage money for borrowing. As far as I know he is not doing much in oil/gas anymore. 
 

Edited Wednesday at 06:35 PM by Mango

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

My mutiny has nothing to do with Pegula doing something to fix the team or not. My mutiny is beyond repair at this point. He’s played me for a sucker for too long and even if he fixed everything overnight and wins a cup next year, I will NOT renew my season tickets, I will NOT buy individual game tickets, and I will NOT spend another dime on merchandise. He doesn’t give a flying F about me as a decades long ST holder and won’t be sorry that I won’t renew. 

Change can be excruciatingly slow, but if you pull back the perspective far enough, you can see its progress. I don’t believe things haven’t changed at all. Too many I know anecdotally, even if that’s only two people, who watch much less than before. Some fans indeed are hitting breaking points and it’s reached a level I personally haven’t seen. More speak of apathy than before. I drew a line at 5 years of Adams and I’m interested to see how that unfolds 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

 

So, no matter where you are in your fandom, no matter what you faced yesterday, today or tomorrow, keep your heart open to the possibility of better days. Hold on to hope, and let it guide you.

The problem is that when my hope is belatedly fulfilled I won't be able to appreciate it because I'll be resting comfortably in my grave. 😀

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Change can be excruciatingly slow, but if you pull back the perspective far enough, you can see its progress. I don’t believe things haven’t changed at all. Too many I know anecdotally, even if that’s only two people, who watch much less than before. Some fans indeed are hitting breaking points and it’s reached a level I personally haven’t seen. More speak of apathy than before. I drew a line at 5 years of Adams and I’m interested to see how that unfolds 

Apathy is the right word for it and it’s a lot worse than simply being angry. Anger you can fix but apathy means crossing the threshold into simply not giving a crap one way or the other and that is much a more difficult challenge for Pegula to correct. And I’ve been there since the second time they blew a three or four goal lead (I forget exactly) vs. Colorado. I know at least a dozen ST holders who feel the same way and they aren’t coming back, either.

[Archie Lee]

It's possible that Pegula is a guy who has surrounded himself with people who just tell him what they think he wants to hear and that nobody ever gives him bad news or challenges his opinion. I think it is much more likely though that there are people within his orbit who have his ear and that some of those people would be honest regarding the state of the Sabres.  Also, I think it is possible that he is simply much more aware of this on his own, than we might think.

It's interesting to me that there are in some ways two competing narratives regarding the Sabres.  One narrative is that the current GM has proven himself incapable of doing the job and that the outcome, after 5 years of his stewardship, is that the team is again a bottom-dweller and seemingly directionless; those of us who ascribe to this view, believe Adams should be fired. The second narrative, which has been repeated in recent articles on the state of the Sabres, is that the issues with the franchise derive in no small part from Pegula not being patient enough and that he has fired GMs and coaches too quickly.  Without any evidence, I believe this likely  weighs on Pegula. 

My view is that it is likely Pegula thinks of these things and that if he has not already made up his mind, then he is weighing the potential consequences of another year of Adams vs. starting over (by starting over, I don't mean another rebuild, but finding yet another GM). In this context, I do think that what the fans and media say, write, and do, regarding the Sabres can have an impact. It might not sway his opinion and he might settle on giving Adams & Ruff another year. But, negative public discourse around the Sabres might also be the factor that tips his decision in the other direction.    

Edited Wednesday at 06:52 PM by Archie Lee

[SABRES 0311]

[K-9]

2 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Sabrespacers, I stand before you today with a simple message: never lose hope. We all know that this franchise has its ups and downs, mostly downs. There are moments that test our patience, our resilience, and our very spirit. But through all the trials, there is one thing that can never be taken away from us—hope.

Hope is not just a feeling. It’s a force. A quiet, steady light that flickers in the darkest of times. Hope is the belief that even when we don’t see the way forward, there is one. It’s the whisper in your heart telling you to keep moving forward, even when the road ahead seems uncertain. It’s the courage to take that first step, even when you can’t see the whole staircase.

It’s easy to be overwhelmed when the season doesn’t go as planned. The challenges we face can feel insurmountable, and there may be moments when you feel like giving up. But I want to remind you of something: every obstacle you face is not a roadblock, it’s a stepping stone. Every time you get knocked down, you have the choice to rise again. Every challenge is an opportunity to grow stronger, to become more resilient, and to become the fan you are meant to be.

In times of hardship, remember that hope doesn’t always shout loudly—it often whispers. It’s in the small, quiet moments when we choose to believe that things can get better. It’s in the times when you choose to smile, even when it’s hard, when you continue to tune in and cheer on the Sabres. Those moments, though they may seem small, are the building blocks of resilience.

And the beauty of hope is that it’s contagious. When you hold on to it, you inspire other Sabrespacers to do the same. By staying hopeful, by choosing to keep moving forward with faith, you ignite a spark that can light the way for others who are struggling in the dark.

So when the franchise feels like it's lost it's way, when you’re unsure of where the journey is taking you as a fan, hold tight to hope. Trust that there is a purpose in every twist and turn. The storm will pass, the clouds will clear, and the franchise will emerge from it stronger, wiser, and more capable than ever before.

In closing, I want you to remember this: Hope is not the absence of fear, but the courage to face it. It’s not about having all the answers, but about trusting that the path will unfold, one step at a time. And with every step, the franchise is moving toward something greater than you could ever imagine.

So, no matter where you are in your fandom, no matter what you faced yesterday, today or tomorrow, keep your heart open to the possibility of better days. Hold on to hope, and let it guide you.

[dudacek]

39 minutes ago, Mango said:

Billionaires don't keep much cash on hand (relative to net worth) and avoid taxes by taking out loans rather than extracting from their businesses because they would both lower the value of the business and have to pay additional taxes compared to loans. 

The Bills are willing to restructure anybody and everybody who needs to in order to manipulate the cap. Which requires a lot of liquid cash every year.  

Curious if a big part of the reason the Sabres exist (at this point) is that Terry uses them to leverage money for borrowing. As far as I know he is not doing much in oil/gas anymore. 
 

 

38 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Change can be excruciatingly slow, but if you pull back the perspective far enough, you can see its progress. I don’t believe things haven’t changed at all. Too many I know anecdotally, even if that’s only two people, who watch much less than before. Some fans indeed are hitting breaking points and it’s reached a level I personally haven’t seen. More speak of apathy than before. I drew a line at 5 years of Adams and I’m interested to see how that unfolds 

its not that I don’t see these things happening, it’s that I have seen them happen before and I think we tend to feel them more sharply when it is happening to us and those around us.

And it’s certainly true that every wave of mutiny further erodes members of the fan base beyond the point of no return. And the failures of each rebound reduce the likelihood of the next one igniting (or re-igniting) new fans.

But I think that following that process through to its nth degree does not end with pressuring Pegula to fix the Sabres, it ends with the Sabres ceasing to exist.

It’s open question how resilient the fan base is, but the evidence suggests it is stunningly resilient. It’s still averaging 16,000 fans a night after the most stunning run of ineptitude imaginable. 14 years? And this team is actually better than about half of the other teams they’ve iced over that period?

This ain’t Phoenix.

The business may have bruised K-9 and many other hardcore fans beyond repair, but how many of the 1 million or so potential fans they are selling to are actually so embittered that they won’t buy a ticket if next year somehow turns into another Drury/Briere type run?

People forget that the average attendance 20 years ago was a shade over 15,000 and the Sabres put more butts in the seats during the awful 62-point 2018 season than they did during the glorious 2006 season.

Breaking this fan base would be the height of enormity.

Call me stubborn fool, or call me a sucker. I’m not going to argue. I’ll endure the best way I can.

But they ain’t going to break me.

Edited Wednesday at 07:07 PM by dudacek

[Mr Peabody]

I think Terry is tired of firing people and seeing no improvement with their replacements.   I’m betting he brings in a POHO not currently in the organization and letting  that person do what needs to be done.  

[HOUSE]

Relax... 

I can see some big changes coming soon...

Edited Wednesday at 08:05 PM by HOUSE

[pastajoe]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

Lindy knows what’s needed to construct a competitive hockey team. Kick him upstairs to president in charge of hockey ops and let him hire a gm who also knows what it takes. But I wonder if Lindy would even want to do that at this point. 

I’ve thought since he was hired that might be the long term plan. Lindy moves up after getting them to the playoffs next year, and Appert takes over as head coach. Otherwise it’s a complete housecleaning.

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

its not that I don’t see these things happening, it’s that I have seen them happen before and I think we tend to feel the more sharply when it is happening to us and those around us.

And it’s certainly true that every wave of mutiny further erodes members of the fan base beyond the point of no return. And the failures of each rebound reduce the likelihood of the next one igniting (or re-igniting) new fans.

But I think that following that process through to its nth degree does not end with pressuring Pegula to fix the Sabres, it ends with the Sabres ceasing to exist.

It’s open question how resilient the fan base is, but the evidence suggests it is stunningly resilient. It’s still averaging 16,000 fans a night after the most stunning run of ineptitude imaginable. 14 years? And this team is actually better than about half of the other teams they’ve iced over that period?

This ain’t Phoenix.

The business may have bruised K-9 and many other hardcore fans beyond repair, but how many of the 1 million or so potential fans they are selling to are actually so embittered that they won’t buy a ticket if next year somehow turns into another Drury/Briere type run?

People forget that the average attendance 20 years ago was a shade over 15,000 and the Sabres put more butts in the seats during the awful 62-point 2018 season than they did during the glorious 2006 season.

 

I’m sure there will be no shortage of rabid fans to replace those of us that don’t give a crap anymore. And good for them as I honestly hope they see the success we’ve wanted to see and enjoy the ride along the way.

Ultimately, it’s about the journey which is the only reason I’ve stuck around this long. But until recently, I’ve never felt intentionally lied to and played for a sucker. Getting off the ride has been a liberating experience and I won’t regret it one bit.