GDT: Ottawa Senators @ Buffalo Sabres 3/25/25, ESPN + & MSG, 7PM EST

[Pimlach]

12 hours ago, Stads said:

Honest question: If you switch the amount of starts for Reimer and UPL, how many more games do we win?

Rewind to the start of the season when many here were happy that Reimer got cut.  He was blocking Levi after all.  

Happy for Reimer to string a few great games together but let’s not blame the season on the UPL, there were lots of problems with the roster and the coaching.  

Edited Wednesday at 02:03 PM by Pimlach

[JohnC]

18 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

10th or lower, actually.  Games in hand. 

Lol, it looked pretty full to me. I've seen emptier games.

The announced attendance was 13,955. Those are tickets sold and not people in the seats. In this game what bolstered the number were Ottawa fans going to a another team's home game. When you say that you seen emptier games that supports the notion that attendance is low, disgracefully low when you compare it to other franchises. The owner has screwed up this franchise. He's a disgrace!

Edited Wednesday at 01:32 PM by JohnC

[inkman]

13 hours ago, ExWNYer said:

 - 

Post of the season as far as I’m concerned 

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

We have to earn our goals, unlike the teams that play us getting goals handed to them.

And Quinn and JJP need to stay together, You can't coach that type of chemistry. 

I wonder what Dylan was thinking when they scored, his two former line mates 

[Pimlach]

20 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

And Quinn and JJP need to stay together, You can't coach that type of chemistry. 

I wonder what Dylan was thinking when they scored, his two former line mates 

Quinn and Peterka can stay together if they can play a better and more consistent 200 foot game.   Adams will probably extend Quinn to a very affordable and tradeable bridge contract, he could package him or keep him another year to see if he comes back to form.   Quinn should not get much of a contract given his injuries and his inconsistent play this season.   

Cozens deep down wanted to be a Sabre.  He liked his teammates, he liked the idea of being part of a turnaround,  but it was just not working.  

He was not impactful in yesterdays game either. I was glad to see the fans cheer for him.  They cannot do to every player what they do to Eichel.  The problem is the organization and I think most fans realize that.  

Edited Wednesday at 02:55 PM by Pimlach

[mjd1001]

21 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

And Quinn and JJP need to stay together, You can't coach that type of chemistry. 

I wonder what Dylan was thinking when they scored, his two former line mates 

Ok, I'm going to agree with you that they seem to have some offensive chemistry coming together so you should keep that going. But to me its not a no-brainer.  They have scored and have some good chances, but they are NOT a good pair up and down the ice.

I still see both of them going deep, not communicating which is making other teams zone exits a lot easier and leading to odd man rushes.  When Quinn isn't scoring, he is pretty much invisible in the neutral zone or the defensive zone.  

The numbers back that up. Even recently, the number of shots they allow, the legit scoring chances that are allowed when they are on the ice together is usually the worst line on the ice (even the last few games).

So yeah, for now keep them together and see if they can continue to develop chemistry in the offensive zone. I don't beleive NHL guys should need 'confidence', but if it does exist, let Quinn get some of it back.  But if they don't get better in their 200 foot game, their defensive zone and neutral zone play may negate the offense they develop.

The last game or so you put McLeod between them. Before the game, shots allowed, scoring chances allowed, high danger chances allowed...Quinn and Peterka have been pretty bad, and McLeod has been positive (one of the best on the team the whole year). In the defensive zone, McLeod didn't 'lift those guys up', rather they brought him down to their level.

So yeah, I'm not saying break them up. And I'm happy with how good the goals looked. But to me, I'm still on Cozens was the #1 problem on this team...UPL's play this year is problem #2.  Problem #3 hurting this team is not the play of the defensemen, but Quinn needing to play better across the ice.

Edited Wednesday at 02:58 PM by mjd1001

[bob_sauve28]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

Ok, I'm going to agree with you that they seem to have some offensive chemistry coming together so you should keep that going. But to me its not a no-brainer.  They have scored and have some good chances, but they are NOT a good pair up and down the ice.

I still see both of them going deep, not communicating which is making other teams zone exits a lot easier and leading to odd man rushes.  When Quinn isn't scoring, he is pretty much invisible in the neutral zone or the defensive zone.  

The numbers back that up. Even recently, the number of shots they allow, the legit scoring chances that are allowed when they are on the ice together is usually the worst line on the ice (even the last few games).

So yeah, for now keep them together and see if they can continue to develop chemistry in the offensive zone. I don't beleive NHL guys should need 'confidence', but if it does exist, let Quinn get some of it back.  But if they don't get better in their 200 foot game, their defensive zone and neutral zone play may negate the offense they develop.

So keep them with McLovin, I mean McCloud, problem solved 

[mjd1001]

Just now, bob_sauve28 said:

So keep them with McLovin, I mean McCloud, problem solved 

I just added to my post before you responded.

I agree with you, but the scoring chances they allowed....McLeod didn't lift up the other 2 guys...they brought him down to their level.  

But as you said, I'd give it a little more time and a few more games to see where it goes.

[EM88]

Jack Quinn and JJ Peterka scored playing with Ryan McLeod. That is the most important thing.

But their play as a line would worry me if I were a coach or a Defenseman playing behind them.

In the couple of games the 3 of them have played together, they have been on the ice for 13 scoring chances for, but allowed 36 against. That is awful.

As a line they are generating 17.8 shots per 60.  They are allowing  35.6.

They have generated 2 high danger chances, but allowed 17 against.  Historically bad ratio.

The above is not deep dive analytics, it is pretty basic stuff.   As for the more derivative analytics, it doesn't look any better:

Expected goals for are 0.94. Against 4.37.  Almost 4.5 times worse.

Their corsi and fenwick for versus against are slanted almost 3-to-1 against them.

The last 2 games Reimer saved their Butts a few times.  A typical UPL game behind them may have had us thinking this line lost the games for them.

The goals have been pretty to watch, but that line has been a disaster in the neutral zone and the defensive zone helping out the defensemen.

Edited Wednesday at 03:22 PM by EM88

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I just added to my post before you responded.

I agree with you, but the scoring chances they allowed....McLeod didn't lift up the other 2 guys...they brought him down to their level.  

But as you said, I'd give it a little more time and a few more games to see where it goes.

Our GM banked on relying on young players with potential. So it shouldn't be a surprise that in the process of playing them before their game is adequately rounded out in their development that the defensive side of the game would be lacking. Also, playing them so soon before they are fully physically mature would also cause problems playing against tough men. 

The mistake that our middling GM made is that he put these promising young players in roles that were too elevated for them too quickly. And he also didn't have the right enough veteran players around them to support their development. It was too much too soon for these players to absorb. The GM took a risk filled road in over-relying on these young players. I'm not saying his approach is a failure but in my view it needlessly extended the team developing process.  

Next year, there still be a major reliance on young players such as Quinn, JJP, Benson, Power, Kulich and to a lesser extend Samuelsson. Will it work out? I don't know. What I do know is that there will be a lesser chance to succeed if the GM doesn't add more maturity to the roster. 

[dudacek]

14 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

For the analytics fans:

Kulich-Benson-Thompson line had the best numbers.  They were well into the positive territory with both Fenwick, Corsi, shot differential and scoring chance ratio. All other 3 lines were negative in all of those areas.

Peterka-McLeod-Quinn line by far the worst analytics.  They did have a goal, but scoring chances were 3 for them and 8 allowed, High danger chances were 1 for and 7 allowed. Expected goals were almost 6-1 in Ottawa's favor when they were on the ice.

To me it looked like the Tkachuk line dominated whoever they played against.

It also looked to me like Lindy was willing to live with that because he thought he was going to win the battle against Ottawa’s 2nd and 3rd lines.

That was about as evenly balanced as you could make the Sabres top 3 lines.

Ive been wanting a Benson/Thompson combo to be a thing forever; their skill sets match so well and that’s currently the franchise’s best hope for growth up front.

I forgot how much chemistry Quinn and Peterka have. Brought me back to their Rochester days and hoping I might see it replicated in Buffalo. McLeod is a good choice for their centre, but I hope Lindy can shelter them a little better.

And maybe the option of a healthy Norris/Tuch combo on the other line would allow them to do that?

***

Note to reader: this does not mean I think we’re suddenly on the right path and everything is fine. I’ve watched 60+ games and read the board too and believe me, I do not need anyone else reminding me again it’s not.

Forgive me for interjecting a bit of “maybe this might work” into our regularly scheduled “it’s never going to end” programming. The opportunities have been few and far between.

Edited Wednesday at 04:28 PM by dudacek

[Thorner]

15 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Apparently subtracting Cozens was more important than adding Norris.

No.

We are 5-4 since the deal, getting outplayed in our last two wins, against winnipeg drastically so. I’ll never understand the fascination with “addition by subtraction.” We didn’t have a 5-4 stretch (and much better) WITH cozens this year? Nevermind the “good” cozens we thought we had two years ago. We still need that. Simply removing Cozens isn’t the team building we need, it’s just the start 

15 hours ago, ExWNYer said:

I'd like to thank James Reimer for providing me a rarity...back-to-back entertaining (and winning) Sabres games.

No it was the lack of Cozens that made our goalie stand on his head in tribute 

[Thorner]

15 hours ago, Sabres73 said:

Our last eight we're 5-3, having beaten the Oilers, Golden Knights, Bruins, Jets and Sens.  Is it finally possible with the changes to the player mix we're finally getting somewhere? If we could ever get that elusive consistency we're capable of being a playoff team.

This is their 5th such stretch this season 

15 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No.  Just lots of backup goalies.

No, just the nature of an 82 game season 

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Thorner said:

No.

We are 5-4 since the deal, getting outplayed in our last two wins, against winnipeg drastically so. I’ll never understand the fascination with “addition by subtraction.” We didn’t have a 5-4 stretch (and much better) WITH cozens this year? Nevermind the “good” cozens we thought we had two years ago. We still need that. Simply removing Cozens isn’t the team building we need, it’s just the start 

No it was the lack of Cozens that made our goalie stand on his head in tribute 

but we didn't simply remove cozens, we brought in his replacement. Gripes about his health aside. 

[Thorner]

14 hours ago, JohnC said:

Wasn't Buffalo playing with their backup goalie when they played Winnipeg and Ottawa? And even if the opposition is using their backup goalies, they are still playing with their superior rosters. 

Accept the win as a positive outcome. There are so many negatives associated with this season that I'm not going to dismiss a good outcome when it happens. 

He’s responding specifically to the suggestion the team has made meaningful progress with the wins.

That has little to do with inability to “accept” a positive outcome. The discussion turned to what it may or may not mean for the future 

[Thorner]

14 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

For the love of Jesus, somebody actually falling into this trap again? These games, mean absolutely nothing, teams dominate us, and goaltending is the only reason any of the games have been victories.

I think they mean something. This discussion always inevitably regrettably seems to devolve into extremities, like most things nowadays

it’s not that they don’t matter: it’s just that they don’t take precedent over the others. They don’t matter *more*. We don’t cherry pick the last 2 games and say, “2 for 2, is that the real us?”

we are our record 

the roster should be addressed reflective of the total we finish with, and reflective of what we want to achieve going forward, and how much of a priority it is for us to achieve it 

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

but we didn't simply remove cozens, we brought in his replacement. Gripes about his health aside. 

The context of the discussion was the removal of Cozens being the “most important part”. That is what i was disagreeing with 

Edited Wednesday at 05:27 PM by Thorner

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

their skill sets match so well

By this, I think you mean they complement each other.  Their skill sets are certainly not the same.  If so, I agree, they work together on a line because Benson does what Thompson doesn't and vice versa.

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

To me it looked like the Tkachuk line dominated whoever they played against.

It also looked to me like Lindy was willing to live with that because he thought he was going to win the battle against Ottawa’s 2nd and 3rd lines.

That was about as evenly balanced as you could make the Sabres top 3 lines.

Ive been wanting a Benson/Thompson combo to be a thing forever; their skill sets match so well and that’s currently the franchise’s best hope for growth up front.

I forgot how much chemistry Quinn and Peterka have. Brought me back to their Rochester days and hoping I might see it replicated in Buffalo. McLeod is a good choice for their centre, but I hope Lindy can shelter them a little better.

And maybe the option of a healthy Norris/Tuch combo on the other line would allow them to do that?

***

Note to reader: this does not mean I think we’re suddenly on the right path and everything is fine. I’ve watched 60+ games and read the board too and believe me, I do not need anyone else reminding me again it’s not.

Forgive me for interjecting a bit of “maybe this might work” into our regularly scheduled “it’s never going to end” programming. The opportunities have been few and far between.

In the infamous 91 point season Granato had to shelter Quinn and Peterka a lot, Cozens ice time was not effected and he played with other combinations. 

Quinn and Peterka have offensive chemistry when they are allowed to free wheel, which is not going to happen every game.  As pointed out, they had the worst expected goals for and against last night, so if the goalie does not stand on his head this combination kills us.  

For next year Quinn and Peterka as a line combo should not be the off season plan.  Peterka has 22 g, 55 points, and is a minus 4 player playing mostly top 6. Quinn is 11 g, 27 points and -21 playing mostly middle 6.   

There needs to be another option on the roster, and if by some good fortune one or both players improve their two way game then we may have something.  Adams has to improve the top 6 and not count on these two guys.   

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Thorner said:

He’s responding specifically to the suggestion the team has made meaningful progress with the wins.

That has little to do with inability to “accept” a positive outcome. The discussion turned to what it may or may not mean for the future 

The topic that both of us responded to was about a particular game. I'm not over interpreting what this win meant within the confines of another disappointing season. In general, despite the injuries that affected the lineup, I was happy with the performance, especially the goaltending. There are plenty of opportunities to express one's dissatisfaction regarding a number of lingering issues. Intermittent smiling is better than having a permanent scowl. It's much better for your facial muscles.