UPL is NOT an NHL goaltender

[Big Guava]

2 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Ok so you were serious.  
His salary is tied for 23rd highest among goalies and he’s only 25 years old.  
The Sabres defense and special teams suck.  

Other teams would get UPL right pretty quick.  
 

I hated the contract and I’m not defending his play.  I’m just saying it is a downright terrible idea to waive him.  

Having terrible positioning has nothing to do with defense. The first goal he is inexplicably cheating towards the pass when his D-man has it played perfectly leaving him just the shooter to worry about and he gets beat shortside which shouldn't ever happen in that spot...dude is broken. He is often in bad position and is allowing 1-2 goals a game that are simply not NHL level goals that should ever go in.

His career GAA is under .900 which is a joke for an NHL goalie and the only time he has shown to be good was when he had something to play for like making the NHL roster his first time getting called up and then last year playing for a contract.

Outside of that, he has sucked and sucked badly all too often. Seems like he gets comfortable and loses focus, doesn't put in the same effort and doesn't pay attention to details like he does when it counts.

So yeah, please have someone take him so we can stop wasting our time waiting for him to play well while being comfy with a guaranteed contract.

Edited March 30 by Big Guava

[Porous Five Hole]

26 minutes ago, Big Guava said:

Having terrible positioning has nothing to do with defense. The first goal he is inexplicably cheating towards the pass when his D-man has it played perfectly leaving him just the shooter to worry about and he gets beat shortside which shouldn't ever happen in that spot...dude is broken. He is often in bad position and is allowing 1-2 goals a game that are simply not NHL level goals that should ever go in.

His career GAA is under .900 which is a joke for an NHL goalie and the only time he has shown to be good was when he had something to play for like making the NHL roster his first time getting called up and then last year playing for a contract.

Outside of that, he has sucked and sucked badly all too often. Seems like he gets comfortable and loses focus, doesn't put in the same effort and doesn't pay attention to details like he does when it counts.

So yeah, please have someone take him so we can stop wasting our time waiting for him to play well while being comfy with a guaranteed contract.

Fine, let’s play it out as you want.  I’m not a UPL guy, so I can pick up what you’re putting down.  But the problem becomes what’s the plan if you give this guy away for nothing? Reimer is an old UFA and not the answer.  I’m a Levi truther, but I’m not ready to insert him as an everyday G1. 
 

So what do you do in net to make this team a playoff team next year?
Long story short, the Sabres have backed themselves into a corner where they need UPL to bounce back. You can rant and rave that Buffalo needs to move on from UPL, and I’ll agree with you. What’s your plan? Who are you signing to be G1 in 2025-26? Reasonable options please.

Or would you just prefer to yell and scream without a meaningful path forward? Please provide a rational plan or else I’ll just assume you are screaming into the wind. 

[Big Guava]

8 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Fine, let’s play it out as you want.  I’m not a UPL guy, so I can pick up what you’re putting down.  But the problem becomes what’s the plan if you give this guy away for nothing? Reimer is an old UFA and not the answer.  I’m a Levi truther, but I’m not ready to insert him as an everyday G1. 
 

So what do you do in net to make this team a playoff team next year?
Long story short, the Sabres have backed themselves into a corner where they need UPL to bounce back. You can rant and rave that Buffalo needs to move on from UPL, and I’ll agree with you. What’s your plan? Who are you signing to be G1 in 2025-26? Reasonable options please.

Or would you just prefer to yell and scream without a meaningful path forward? Please provide a rational plan or else I’ll just assume you are screaming into the wind. 

Whoever the goalie coach is needs to be gone yesterday. I'm not sure who the goalie coach was when we started the drought but the goalies all were pretty good for the first 4-5 years and I remember many of us thinking they were going to screw us out of the #1 pick from stopping too many pucks. Even random goalies that they picked up in trades to replace people they traded. Hire that guy back again if he is out there somewhere.

Honestly I'm not sure what they should do because Adams seems to have issues identifying quality goalies. None of the people he has brought in has done well here, except for Reimer in a small sample size and even then, his save percentage sucks too.

Eric Comrie was a disaster. Carter Hutton was a disaster.

Adams seems to not be able to identify what's important for goalies talent wise.

Edited March 30 by Big Guava

[Porous Five Hole]

1 minute ago, Big Guava said:

Whoever the goalie coach is needs to be gone yesterday. I'm not sure who the goalie coach was when we started the drought but they all were pretty good for the first 4-5 years and I remember many of us thinking they were going to screw us out of the #1 pick from stopping too many pucks. Hire that guy back again if he is out there somewhere.

Honestly I'm not sure what they should do because Adams seems to have issues identifying quality goalies. None of the people he has brought in has done well here, except for Reimer in a small sample size and even then, his save percentage sucks too.

 

So your plan is to give away UPL for free and not replace him.  Got it.  At least I know not to quote you or reply to you as a logical conversation person. But we agree, UPL sucks. 

[oddoublee]

Yikes. Upl is a bit broken. Say what you will about lindys system....but good goaltenders can manage it. Upl cannot. If anything, lindys system is a great way to identify goalie incompetence. I rooted for upl....but he is not an answer. He's a time killer until someone else is ready. 

[SABRES 0311]

Not going to be able to get a number one goalie, top four dman, and top six forward in one summer with KA. We’re screwed next year.

[SabreFinn]

Canucks might want to trade Demko, not sure if they want Luukkonen with the contract he has?

Tristan Jerry anyone? Lol

[Big Guava]

10 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

So your plan is to give away UPL for free and not replace him.  Got it.  At least I know not to quote you or reply to you as a logical conversation person. But we agree, UPL sucks. 

Not saying to give him away, get what you can for him and get out of the contract that even as it might be reasonable for a starting goalie in the NHL is a big overpayment for a player who is not a starting goalie in the NHL.

I mean a player with a career .898 save percentage in this day and age should not be a starting goalie in the NHL. It's hard to be that low when your save percentage last year was .910 in a season where you played 54 games, which means he has sucked much worse the rest of the time he has played.

He leads the NHL in Goals allowed and out of goalies with 20+ games played he ranks 50th out of 56 in save percentage with an abysmal .885.

In short, he sucks, so I am not sure what your argument is for keeping him is.

And about not replacing him...they could bring in Michael Houser and get this level of goaltending most nights. If that's what you are getting anyway, why pay 5x the price?

Stop deluding yourself into thinking UPL is going to be anything other than a disappointment. Just pay a vet minimum contract and you'll get the same level of goaltending...I mean Reimer has been outplaying him and it hasn't really been close.

Edited March 30 by Big Guava

[LGR4GM]

Quote

Among goalies with at least 20 games played this season, Luukkonen is 48th in goals saved above expected, according to MoneyPuck.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6243260/2025/03/30/sabres-jack-quinn-goalies-krebs-capitals/?source=emp_shared_article

[Big Guava]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6243260/2025/03/30/sabres-jack-quinn-goalies-krebs-capitals/?source=emp_shared_article

Yes he has been terrible in virtually every way possible this year.

[CallawaySabres]

Just add one more absolutely AWFUL contract to Adams failures. 4 more years at 4,750,000 per year. I don't even want this guy as a backup, so how in the world can they trade him? Are they allowed to pay him that to play in Rochester? 

I am guessing that Levi is the starter in Rochester next year in hopes that he can make the team eventually. Ideally, they trade for a true #1 and have Reimer/Levi as a backup. 

I don't see anything on the free agent list so there absolutely HAS to be a trade for a true #1. Buffalo has the prospects and draft position to make this happen. What team has a legit #1 that is still a couple years away from making the playoffs?

[bob_sauve28]

UPL has been awful, no doubt. Hopefully its just that the long season took a toll on him and a little rest, retooling and a fresh start sees him ready to do well as a 35-40 game goalie with Levi ready to platoon. Not sure what other options there are. Goalies don't grow on trees. Its easy to say "go out and get a goalie," but super hard to find. Washington seems to have gotten lucky in finding two of them maybe we find one that someone else is throwing away. 

If they sign Reimer again, are we going with the three headed monster again next year? 

[dudacek]

Goaltending is so weird. 

As much of a weak link as he's been this season, he was a strong point last year.

It's like after the elite guys, you never know what you're going to get from the next tier. I mean look at Blackwood and Gustafsson and Swayman and Saros.

True #1s — such as they exist — don't get traded.

[Drag0nDan]

31 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

Just add one more absolutely AWFUL contract to Adams failures. 4 more years at 4,750,000 per year. I don't even want this guy as a backup, so how in the world can they trade him? Are they allowed to pay him that to play in Rochester? 

I am guessing that Levi is the starter in Rochester next year in hopes that he can make the team eventually. Ideally, they trade for a true #1 and have Reimer/Levi as a backup. 

I don't see anything on the free agent list so there absolutely HAS to be a trade for a true #1. Buffalo has the prospects and draft position to make this happen. What team has a legit #1 that is still a couple years away from making the playoffs?

No one.  Factoring in trade clauses, its less than no one.  They are either a legit #1 and the team is in it, or they probably just re-upped.  Oettinger, Hill, Saros, Vejmelka, Swayman, Blackwood, Thompson/Lindgren, and Daccord all extended.  I can't see any of those teams wanting to swap contracts for UPL - even with solid sweeteners in there. 

I'm not sure there's anyone even available that's worth trading for.  I think the entire list is just Demko, but he's on an expiring deal and has been battling injuries all season since the playoffs a year ago.  I'm not saying he's washed, i just doubt he'd re-up here.  

They will need to get lucky in free agency, hope UPL plays considerably better, or Levi wins the crease by playing well.  

Edited April 2 by Drag0nDan

[matter2003]

5 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

UPL has been awful, no doubt. Hopefully its just that the long season took a toll on him and a little rest, retooling and a fresh start sees him ready to do well as a 35-40 game goalie with Levi ready to platoon. Not sure what other options there are. Goalies don't grow on trees. Its easy to say "go out and get a goalie," but super hard to find. Washington seems to have gotten lucky in finding two of them maybe we find one that someone else is throwing away. 

If they sign Reimer again, are we going with the three headed monster again next year? 

The only times UPL has played well was when he had something on the line...his rookie year when he was trying to make the Sabres and in his contract year. Other than that, he has been bad.  Unfocused, undisciplined, out of position, not driven to push himself but needs something else to push him.  Not what you want out of an athlete. 

[bob_sauve28]

4 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

The only times UPL has played well was when he had something on the line...his rookie year when he was trying to make the Sabres and in his contract year. Other than that, he has been bad.  Unfocused, undisciplined, out of position, not driven to push himself but needs something else to push him.  Not what you want out of an athlete. 

Maybe competition from Levi will do the trick, I dunno. 

 

[matter2003]

3 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Maybe competition from Levi will do the trick, I dunno. 

 

Levi has been worse than UPL numbers wise, so he needs to up his game first before he can provide that

[quill]

If UPL was 22 or 23 years old, I'd say he would just need more time to develop before ruling him out, but he's 26 and at this point it looks like he's done about as much developing as he's going to do. He just doesn't have any consistency, nor does it look like he has enough hockey smarts. He is simply unreliable.

[Porous Five Hole]

On 3/31/2025 at 12:08 PM, LGR4GM said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6243260/2025/03/30/sabres-jack-quinn-goalies-krebs-capitals/?source=emp_shared_article

So help me god if the Sabres base their late season positive results on “we are close” versus the Reimer lightning in a bottle performance bump. 
 

Goaltending improvement (along with one more top six forward and one competent top four D—buy out Muel as under 26 buyout & trade Byram to help the cause) has to happen.
 

We cannot run it back. 

[zow2]

Let’s be real.  the sens are where they are in the standings because they have solid goaltending.  i’d argue Buffalo are just as talented as the Sens.  except for goaltending.  Probably defense too but i’d say 80% goalie (UPL), 20% defense

[LGR4GM]

On 4/2/2025 at 11:28 PM, Porous Five Hole said:

So help me god if the Sabres base their late season positive results on “we are close” versus the Reimer lightning in a bottle performance bump. 
 

Goaltending improvement (along with one more top six forward and one competent top four D—buy out Muel as under 26 buyout & trade Byram to help the cause) has to happen.
 

We cannot run it back. 

I think the bottom is gonna fall out again. I don't believe their team sh% over this stretch is truly sustainable and defense still sucks.

[DarthEbriate]

On 4/2/2025 at 8:28 PM, Porous Five Hole said:

So help me god if the Sabres base their late season positive results on “we are close” versus the Reimer lightning in a bottle performance bump. 
 

Goaltending improvement (along with one more top six forward and one competent top four D—buy out Muel as under 26 buyout & trade Byram to help the cause) has to happen.
 

We cannot run it back. 

Reimer's play isn't really lightning in a bottle; the teamwide scoring bump/shot percentage explosion is why they're winning recently.

Reimer has played consistently -- as you'd expect from a veteran goalie, but since supplanting UPL, Reimer's poorer games have been wins (.828 v. WSH was 8-5 W; .880 v. PIT was 7-3 W). And he has been fantastic in the two games versus Ottawa. Otherwise, he's giving up 2-3 goals and .900-ish per game, just like his season/career numbers.

[LGR4GM]

How bad is UPL? 

Well in his 3 years as an NHL goalie he only has 1 season above .900 and that was last years .910 the other two seasons are .891 and currently running at .885 this year. His goals saved above average is -22.2 thus dar. He only has 25 quality starts in 53 starts. His GAA is actually lower than what it was when he had the 891sv% going from 3.61 down to 3.23 this season. So the moral is he lets in more goals on average, while being pretty awful at consistency. His even strength sv% is down from 2 years ago (I use 2 years to show his other bad year as a comparison) and his ppsv% is down and his short handed sv% is down. 

He's been one of the leagues worst goalies in 2 of the 3 years where he's been a bonafide NHL goaltender but I am supposed to believe that the .910sv% he posted last year is the truth when ever other year and all the other starts say that the 0.887sv% is his average. I mean what are we doing? Adams blundered again. He couldn't get Ullmark signed and he panicked the 2nd UPL played a good 25 games, signed him to a bad deal at 5yrs and now UPL is back to being the backup level goalie he's basically always been. 

Sure maybe he figures it out, but Adams can't keep being the guy who lets his players eventually maybe figure it out at some point. For comparison, Ullmark is basically always at 0.917%. 0.915, 0.917, 0.917, 0.938, 0.915, 0.911. Compared to 0.899, 0.910, 0.885. UPL just isn't good enough. 

[Doohickie]

On 3/22/2025 at 9:35 PM, JoeSchmoe said:

Lafferty.

Never, ever leave out Lafferty.

I have no problem with Lafferty*

 

 

*as a 13th or 14th forward

[Archie Lee]

59 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

How bad is UPL? 

Well in his 3 years as an NHL goalie he only has 1 season above .900 and that was last years .910 the other two seasons are .891 and currently running at .885 this year. His goals saved above average is -22.2 thus dar. He only has 25 quality starts in 53 starts. His GAA is actually lower than what it was when he had the 891sv% going from 3.61 down to 3.23 this season. So the moral is he lets in more goals on average, while being pretty awful at consistency. His even strength sv% is down from 2 years ago (I use 2 years to show his other bad year as a comparison) and his ppsv% is down and his short handed sv% is down. 

He's been one of the leagues worst goalies in 2 of the 3 years where he's been a bonafide NHL goaltender but I am supposed to believe that the .910sv% he posted last year is the truth when ever other year and all the other starts say that the 0.887sv% is his average. I mean what are we doing? Adams blundered again. He couldn't get Ullmark signed and he panicked the 2nd UPL played a good 25 games, signed him to a bad deal at 5yrs and now UPL is back to being the backup level goalie he's basically always been. 

Sure maybe he figures it out, but Adams can't keep being the guy who lets his players eventually maybe figure it out at some point. For comparison, Ullmark is basically always at 0.917%. 0.915, 0.917, 0.917, 0.938, 0.915, 0.911. Compared to 0.899, 0.910, 0.885. UPL just isn't good enough. 

I posted this in the Bruins game thread, but it is probably more relevant here.

As you point out, UPL had one strong NHL season prior to this year. The plan for this season was to go to camp with UPL, Levi, and Reimer. At some point, based on no clear rationale, they opted to waive Reimer and go with UPL and Levi. Then, once Levi faltered the plan became to lean almost exclusively on UPL. Prior to March 20th, when Reimer's current streak of play began, UPL had started 50 games and Levi/Reimer a combined 15.  Levi/Reimer were 4 wins and 11 losses in those 15 games. On March 19th, UPL was on pace to start 63 games; this is despite him having, on balance, a very bad season to that point. There is one goalie in the NHL this year on pace to start more than 63 games: Vasilevskiy.  Hellebucyk is on pace for 62 starts.  As fans, we should consider the absurdity of this for a moment. With UPL having only one season of success, the plan that Adams (and Ruff) hatched was to go with UPL and Levi and if Levi failed, to run UPL for 60+ games.  The most games Ullmark played as a Sabre was 37.  You have to go back to Miller's 2010-2011 for a season where a Sabre goalie played 63+ games. 

UPL has been bad this year. The numbers and the eye-test align. But Adams went into the season without a second goalie the team could rely on and then asked UPL to carry a larger load than practically every goalie in the NHL. UPL was not set-up for success. Ruff clearly had no faith in Reimer or Levi. We had $7ish million in cap space. Cam Talbot, Logan Thompson, MacKenzie Blackwood, Casey DeSmith, Anthony Stolarz, were all available at various points and we had assets and cap space to outbid other teams on the acquisition or free agent cost.

And Adams is going to get a 6th shot at this.