The Sabres Lead the League in Penalty Minutes

[Porous Five Hole]

This is so surprising to me.  
 

Also seventh most major penalties assessed in the league.  

Is this an indication their game is getting heavier?
Or more a reflection of younger/less talented players compensating for mistakes by taking a penalty?  

Both?

[dudacek]

I think it shows what a small role the Donnybrook plays in today’s game.

Id bet good money the Sabres were nowhere near the top prior to piling up 114 minutes in their last 3 games, 83 of them versus Detroit.

That’s more than 1/10 of their total minutes for the season in a single game.

[mjd1001]

14 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think it shows what a small role the Donnybrook plays in today’s game.

Id bet good money the Sabres were nowhere near the top prior to piling up 114 minutes in their last 3 games, 83 of them versus Detroit.

That’s more than 1/10 of their total minutes for the season in a single game.

If you took out that one game vs detroit and pretended it didn't exist, they'd still be 5th in terms of PIM per game.

Take out the last 3 and they are still 5th in PIM per game.

I didn't realize they were ranked that highly though.

The most interesting is in how many misconducts they have, amost double the 2nd place team. Sabres with 12 misconducts....Chicago and Winnipeg tied for 2nd with 7 each. There are 5 teams that have none...and 19 of the 32 teams have 2 or less.

Edited 11 hours ago by mjd1001

[triumph_communes]

The Lindy factor 

[inkman]

I’m trying to wrap my head around this and I’m having a hard time.  Up until a few games ago, the Sabres weren’t really fighting anyone or getting majors called against them.  So do they lead the league in stupid lazy stick penalties like hooking, tripping, etc.  is the reason they suck so much is that they are constantly killing penalties?  Just trying to cobble together something that makes sense. 

Edited 11 hours ago by inkman

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, inkman said:

I’m trying to wrap my head around this and I’m having a hard time.  Up until a few games ago, the Sabres weren’t really fighting anyone or getting majors called against them.  So do they lead the league in stupid lazy stick penalties like hooking, tripping, etc.  is the reason they suck so much is that they are constantly killing penalties?  Just trying to cobble together something that makes sense. 

1) They have a crazy number of misconducts padding their stats (see MJD's post above)

2) nobody fights anymore so the Sabres 21 majors actually rank relatively high

 

[Doohicksie]

22 minutes ago, inkman said:

I’m trying to wrap my head around this and I’m having a hard time.  Up until a few games ago, the Sabres weren’t really fighting anyone or getting majors called against them.  So do they lead the league in stupid lazy stick penalties like hooking, tripping, etc.  is the reason they suck so much is that they are constantly killing penalties?  Just trying to cobble together something that makes sense. 

Their captain takes too many penalties.

[SabreFinn]

Less penalties and a better penalty kill is a key factor to make the playoffs. Maybe next season then.

[inkman]

29 minutes ago, Doohicksie said:

Their captain takes too many penalties.

I’d like to see his minor penalty rate vs other #1 dman.  He plays a ton so obviously his counting stats will be high.  Just wondering how he compares to Makar, Doughty etc. 

[Night Train]

I agree with the lazy stick penalty observation. Happens way too often. Frustration penalties after getting beat. 

[RangerDave]

1 hour ago, Doohicksie said:

Their captain takes too many penalties.

It seems like Benson gets called for so many crazy, unwarranted penalties, too.  So many times I've seen him called for penalties like roughing that would not be called on someone who was 6' 2 and 200 pounds.

[dudacek]

51 minutes ago, inkman said:

I’d like to see his minor penalty rate vs other #1 dman.  He plays a ton so obviously his counting stats will be high.  Just wondering how he compares to Makar, Doughty etc. 

Among the 40 defencemen who have played 55 games and average 22 minutes TOI a game, he's second in the league, behind only Aaron Ekblad

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=penalties&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20242025&seasonTo=20242025&gameType=2&position=D&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,55&filter=timeOnIcePerGame,gte,22&sort=netPenalties&page=0&pageSize=50

But the other thing to consider is how penalties are a two-way street.

From the same sample, Dahlin is tied with Makar for 1st in penalties drawn.

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=penalties&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20242025&seasonTo=20242025&gameType=2&position=D&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,55&filter=timeOnIcePerGame,gte,22&sort=netPenalties&page=0&pageSize=50

Overall, most of these guys are a net negative in penalty differential. Dhalin, at -2 is pretty mid in 20th

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=penalties&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20242025&seasonTo=20242025&gameType=2&position=D&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,55&filter=timeOnIcePerGame,gte,22&sort=netPenalties&page=0&pageSize=50

[PerreaultForever]

8 minutes ago, RangerDave said:

It seems like Benson gets called for so many crazy, unwarranted penalties, too.  So many times I've seen him called for penalties like roughing that would not be called on someone who was 6' 2 and 200 pounds.

Most of his penalties have been stick penalties not roughing. He has taken a lot of them and they aren't unwarranted. It's a flaw in his game. I like Benson, but he still has much to learn. 

In general, Sabres take a lot of dumb stick penalties and that adds to the total. Also, penalties happen when you are under attack and do not defend well physically. Too much stick defending and not enough bodying off the puck. 

[SwampD]

28 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Most of his penalties have been stick penalties not roughing. He has taken a lot of them and they aren't unwarranted. It's a flaw in his game. I like Benson, but he still has much to learn. 

In general, Sabres take a lot of dumb stick penalties and that adds to the total. Also, penalties happen when you are under attack and do not defend well physically. Too much stick defending and not enough bodying off the puck. 

He also gets the sh!t beat out of him every single shift and often is caught retaliating. I think if he learns how to stop doing that he could start to draw a lot of penalties ala Jeff Skinner..

Edited 8 hours ago by SwampD

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

This is so surprising to me.  
 

Also seventh most major penalties assessed in the league.  

Is this an indication their game is getting heavier?
Or more a reflection of younger/less talented players compensating for mistakes by taking a penalty?  

Both?

How many of those are BS calls on Benson?

[DarthEbriate]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Most of his penalties have been stick penalties not roughing. He has taken a lot of them and they aren't unwarranted. It's a flaw in his game. I like Benson, but he still has much to learn. 

In general, Sabres take a lot of dumb stick penalties and that adds to the total. Also, penalties happen when you are under attack and do not defend well physically. Too much stick defending and not enough bodying off the puck. 

He's had at least 6 tripping penalties where he's reaching instead of skating that will get called every time.

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

How many of those are BS calls on Benson?

Probably 10 minutes worth so far this season. And definitely one where it should have been offsetting but Benson was the only one in the box.

For the fun extracurriculars he just needs to keep doing it. Eventually he won't be looked at as a rookie and it'll just be part of his game and they'll let it go.

[LGR4GM]

My thoughts are that it just shows how penalties don't correlate to winning very well. They probably correlate better to losing but I haven't looked anything up, just a hypothesis. 

[pi2000]

Lack of discipline, young team still figuring out what they can and can't get away with.

There's plenty of nuances when it comes to what is and isn't an infraction in the pro game.

They only have 1 player in the top 40 for PIMs now that Cozens is gone.

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, SwampD said:

He also gets the sh!t beat out of him every single shift and often is caught retaliating. I think if he learns how to stop doing that he could start to draw a lot of penalties ala Jeff Skinner..

I hope he doesn't become a little whiney bitch like Skinner but I get your point.

He's smaller so he goes for the stick check more rather than using his body and he has to learn to take that extra step and/or get stronger and actually take the body. Instigate and not retaliate. 

I'm actually perfectly fine with Benson turning into Marchand if the production comes along with it.