Sabres call up Bret Murray and Isak Rosen

[Brawndo]

Per Sabres PR

[Pimlach]

Kulich might be hurt.  

Could be more of that crazy flu spreading?  

[inkman]

Hey where’s our Brett Murray Stan?  

[PromoTheRobot]

11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Kulich might be hurt.  

Could be more of that crazy flu spreading?  

Head shot flu. There should be a suspension for that guy but the league won't.

I'm happy Murray is getting another shot. Ruff needs to use him the right way: park him at the net and use him as a backboard.

[Pimlach]

19 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Head shot flu. There should be a suspension for that guy but the league won't.

I'm happy Murray is getting another shot. Ruff needs to use him the right way: park him at the net and use him as a backboard.

I get that the ref missed the head shot in real time, but the replays show it.  

I get that since the ref thought it was a good hit that Krebs would get the extra 2, but 10 more minutes was excessive.  Are only good teams allowed to respond like this?  

[SwampD]

18 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I get that the ref missed the head shot in real time, but the replays show it.  

I get that since the ref thought it was a good hit that Krebs would get the extra 2, but 10 more minutes was excessive.  Are only good teams allowed to respond like this?  

And he lifts his ass up to make sure he hits him in the head. Way more dangerous than a shoulder and there will be no fine, because NHL.

Actually I take it back. He’s a repeat offender so he might get suspended.

[Porous Five Hole]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Head shot flu. There should be a suspension for that guy but the league won't.

I'm happy Murray is getting another shot. Ruff needs to use him the right way: park him at the net and use him as a backboard.

 

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I get that the ref missed the head shot in real time, but the replays show it.  

I get that since the ref thought it was a good hit that Krebs would get the extra 2, but 10 more minutes was excessive.  Are only good teams allowed to respond like this?  

 

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

And he lifts his ass up to make sure he hits him in the head. Way more dangerous than a shoulder and there will be no fine, because NHL.

Actually I take it back. He’s a repeat offender so he might get suspended.

Not sure about that, Swamp.
 

I guess my take is going to be unpopular to you three, but what responsibility does Kulich have to bear for having his head down at the level of someone else’s hip? Like, yea, dude could have laid up knowing Jiri was vulnerable, but that isn’t a dirty hit.  While there was clearly contact to the head, I don’t believe Howden was targeting Jiri’s head at all. It just happened the way it did.
 

Rookie-level awareness by our guy. in the AHL, he beats the pursuit clean and is ready for Howden.

It sucks and I hope he’s OK.  

[LTS]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I get that the ref missed the head shot in real time, but the replays show it.  

I get that since the ref thought it was a good hit that Krebs would get the extra 2, but 10 more minutes was excessive.  Are only good teams allowed to respond like this?  

The 2 minute instigator penalty automatically carries a 10 minute misconduct penalty. It's non-negotiable. The only negotiable part is whether it's a game misconduct or not and it certainly did not warrant that.

I don't like the 2 minute penalty at all.  As for the headshot, Kulich put himself in a vulnerable position. I would be shocked if the NHL took any action. I thought it was clean at the time. It's unfortunate, but it's a contact sport.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Head shot flu. There should be a suspension for that guy but the league won't.

I'm happy Murray is getting another shot. Ruff needs to use him the right way: park him at the net and use him as a backboard.

He's a 4th liner at best. 

[inkman]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He's a 4th liner at best. 

Yes. I’d like to see him the last 1/4 of the season in the bigs just to see if he can be serviceable in the role. 

[Brawndo]

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

And he lifts his ass up to make sure he hits him in the head. Way more dangerous than a shoulder and there will be no fine, because NHL.

Actually I take it back. He’s a repeat offender so he might get suspended.

Unfortunately He’s playing this afternoon against Detroit.

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

 

 

Not sure about that, Swamp.
 

I guess my take is going to be unpopular to you three, but what responsibility does Kulich have to bear for having his head down at the level of someone else’s hip? Like, yea, dude could have laid up knowing Jiri was vulnerable, but that isn’t a dirty hit.  While there was clearly contact to the head, I don’t believe Howden was targeting Jiri’s head at all. It just happened the way it did.
 

Rookie-level awareness by our guy. in the AHL, he beats the pursuit clean and is ready for Howden.

It sucks and I hope he’s OK.  

My answer to the bolded question is: almost none. Hits like this are available every game. I will often see a player opt against such a hit. I can only assume this is because players recognize when their opponent is in a vulnerable position. The game forces players to frequently skate bent over, or to look down at the ice for the puck, or to reach with their stick. I'm not saying Howden intended to hit Kulich in a manner that caused injury. The game happens fast. Just as instincts can lead a player to put himself in a vulnerable position, instincts can also lead a player to commit to a check that is dangerous. We know today the potential long-term impact of such hits to the head. Suspending players for such hits, is a must. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

The 2 minute instigator penalty automatically carries a 10 minute misconduct penalty. It's non-negotiable. The only negotiable part is whether it's a game misconduct or not and it certainly did not warrant that.

I don't like the 2 minute penalty at all.  As for the headshot, Kulich put himself in a vulnerable position. I would be shocked if the NHL took any action. I thought it was clean at the time. It's unfortunate, but it's a contact sport.

The misconduct is either a 10 or a game?  Stupid rules.  What determines that decision?  

The NHL is famous for these poor rulings.  

Why didn't Kolesar get an extra 2 and a 10?  He told the reporter afterword that the Sabres were playing a "heavy game" and he went out to stop it.  Why isn't that an instigator?  

Ridiculous rules.  

[Porous Five Hole]

24 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

My answer to the bolded question is: almost none. Hits like this are available every game. I will often see a player opt against such a hit. I can only assume this is because players recognize when their opponent is in a vulnerable position. The game forces players to frequently skate bent over, or to look down at the ice for the puck, or to reach with their stick. I'm not saying Howden intended to hit Kulich in a manner that caused injury. The game happens fast. Just as instincts can lead a player to put himself in a vulnerable position, instincts can also lead a player to commit to a check that is dangerous. We know today the potential long-term impact of such hits to the head. Suspending players for such hits, is a must. 

To the bold, that is every body check.  The intent is to blow someone up.  
 

The hit was not illegal.  It was not late, Kulich had time to see him coming, and Jiri had the puck.  If Jiri was standing up, he would have taken it in the middle of the chest. 
 

To me, there’s a difference between targeting the head and contact to the head.  I would suspend a target, you seem to want to suspend contact. I get that you want to err on the side of caution.  In a perfect world, so do I.  But that wasn’t a dirty check.  

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

 

 

Not sure about that, Swamp.
 

I guess my take is going to be unpopular to you three, but what responsibility does Kulich have to bear for having his head down at the level of someone else’s hip? Like, yea, dude could have laid up knowing Jiri was vulnerable, but that isn’t a dirty hit.  While there was clearly contact to the head, I don’t believe Howden was targeting Jiri’s head at all. It just happened the way it did.
 

Rookie-level awareness by our guy. in the AHL, he beats the pursuit clean and is ready for Howden.

It sucks and I hope he’s OK.  

Players bend over reaching and stretching all the time.  Are they supposed to play scared and just stay straight up.  Howden took advantage an opportunity to bury a vulnerable younger, smaller, rookie and he got away with it.  He actually got rewarded for it.  

A head hit is a head it.  Either you enforce player safety or not.   Which is it?  You want the ref to determine if he meant it or not, in real time?    No.  

And the extra misconduct on Krebs, which I'm told could have been a game misconduct, the ref does what to decide that?  

[Porous Five Hole]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Players bend over reaching and stretching all the time.  Are they supposed to play scared and just stay straight up.  Howden took advantage an opportunity to bury a vulnerable younger, smaller, rookie and he got away with it.  He actually got rewarded for it.  

A head hit is a head it.  Either you enforce player safety or not.   Which is it?  You want the ref to determine if he meant it or not, in real time?    No.  

And the extra misconduct on Krebs, which I'm told could have been a game misconduct, the ref does what to decide that?  

I agree with you in principle.  I really do.  But why do we not see hits like this all the time? It’s because players know better than Jiri does.  
It’s because our Rookie doesn’t have NHL spatial awareness and because he’s adjusting to a faster game.  You’re right, he got taken advantage of.  But that doesn’t make the hit illegal.  
 

I actually prefer the policy you’re proposing to protect player’s heads, but I would be very upset to be suspended and lose paychecks because a guy bent over or surged forward at the last second on me. 

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I agree with you in principle.  I really do.  But why do we not see hits like this all the time? It’s because players know better than Jiri does.  
It’s because our Rookie doesn’t have NHL spatial awareness and because he’s adjusting to a faster game.  You’re right, he got taken advantage of.  But that doesn’t make the hit illegal.  
 

I actually prefer the policy you’re proposing to protect player’s heads, but I would be very upset to be suspended and lose paychecks because a guy bent over or surged forward at the last second on me. 

I get your points.  I still think Howden got off easy.  He got nothing. 

Kulich was slightly low coming out of the turn but not really leaning or stretching forward, I cannot even say his head was down.  He was also being pushed in the back by #15 on Vegas. The hit was was reckless, Howden turned to his side and contacted his head first, he is out of control.  That is my judgement. 

Player safety?  Who is responsible for it?  The leagues inaction says they are not.  So we should see more of these legal hits, right?   

[Archie Lee]

15 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I agree with you in principle.  I really do.  But why do we not see hits like this all the time? It’s because players know better than Jiri does.  
It’s because our Rookie doesn’t have NHL spatial awareness and because he’s adjusting to a faster game.  You’re right, he got taken advantage of.  But that doesn’t make the hit illegal.  
 

I actually prefer the policy you’re proposing to protect player’s heads, but I would be very upset to be suspended and lose paychecks because a guy bent over or surged forward at the last second on me. 

I think it is the opposite.  The reason we don't see hits like this all the time is because players no longer seek to blow-up their opponents with predatory hits.  That doesn't mean it never happens.  Also, to support your point to a degree, the fact that players are now more respectful of their opponents does mean that players are perhaps more likely to put themselves in vulnerable positions. In short, Kulich would never have imagined that an opponent would take advantage of him in a vulnerable position and drive their elbow through his face, because players generally don't do that.

[Crusader1969]

Murray should drop the gloves every game he gets to play in

show the Sabres he can be an option for the 4th line next season 

probably doesn't have the pace though 

[Porous Five Hole]

18 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Murray should drop the gloves every game he gets to play in

show the Sabres he can be an option for the 4th line next season 

probably doesn't have the pace though 

Brett Murray has 25 PIMs in 55 GP this year.  It just isn’t his game.  

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Players bend over reaching and stretching all the time.  Are they supposed to play scared and just stay straight up.  Howden took advantage an opportunity to bury a vulnerable younger, smaller, rookie and he got away with it.  He actually got rewarded for it.  

A head hit is a head it.  Either you enforce player safety or not.   Which is it?  You want the ref to determine if he meant it or not, in real time?    No.  

And the extra misconduct on Krebs, which I'm told could have been a game misconduct, the ref does what to decide that?  

It needs to be the principle point of contact to be illegal 

Making contact with the head is not necessarily illegal 

this is not a commentary on what SHOULD be illegal 

Edited March 16 by Thorner

[Broken Ankles]

17 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Murray should drop the gloves every game he gets to play in

show the Sabres he can be an option for the 4th line next season 

probably doesn't have the pace though 

Zero chance.  Murray has had 4 years to make that change to his game.  He probably could have asked for assistance from Ray or others if he had a desire to make the NHL as a fourth line goon.  If someone gave you $350k/year (current Rochester salary) to play hockey in the minors or $1m/year to fight in the NHL and risk CTE what would you choose?   Murray has made his choice.  He is a big, .6 pts/game AHL player who does not possess the skills to play in the NHL.  Nothing about his game is elite and it certainly won’t manifest itself after 29 years of age.  He will continue to use his PSU affiliation to pull a decent AHL salary from Pegula until his mid thirties and then go into coaching.  Not a bad career choice at all. 

[Pimlach]

28 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I agree with you in principle.  I really do.  But why do we not see hits like this all the time? It’s because players know better than Jiri does.  
It’s because our Rookie doesn’t have NHL spatial awareness and because he’s adjusting to a faster game.  You’re right, he got taken advantage of.  But that doesn’t make the hit illegal.  
 

I actually prefer the policy you’re proposing to protect player’s heads, but I would be very upset to be suspended and lose paychecks because a guy bent over or surged forward at the last second on me. 

Just want to add one more hopefully constructive point to this.  Thinking about how the league should look at this going forward.  

If you whack (hard to ferocious level) another players gloves/wrist/forearms you get a slashing minor or even roughing, you will get a penalty.  Today, if the blade of your stick even touches the gloves or near the forearms of another player you get a minor penalty.  This gets called routinely as slashing or hooking.  Even the softest glances get called, do not touch the gloves with your stick.  

The benefit is it reduces players having to play in pain for the rest of the game, or sometimes part of a season hurt , or even worse get sidelined for awhile.  

Why are head hits treated different?   Why not all head hits draw a penalty?  But just don't touch the gloves, right?   Why is touching the gloves with your stick blade more important?    Seems like the priority is all wrong to me.  It makes no sense that a ref would not call something on that play.  

 

[SwampD]

3 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

 

 

Not sure about that, Swamp.
 

I guess my take is going to be unpopular to you three, but what responsibility does Kulich have to bear for having his head down at the level of someone else’s hip? Like, yea, dude could have laid up knowing Jiri was vulnerable, but that isn’t a dirty hit.  While there was clearly contact to the head, I don’t believe Howden was targeting Jiri’s head at all. It just happened the way it did.
 

Rookie-level awareness by our guy. in the AHL, he beats the pursuit clean and is ready for Howden.

It sucks and I hope he’s OK.  

Only it wasn't. Howden had to rise up on his skates to make contact with the head. He didn't just keep skating and happen to hit him.

And I'm not saying that Kulich also needs to be more aware, but Howden got away with one no matter what you think. His whole body changes direction right before the hit to make contact with the head. Was it intentional, probably not, but by rule, you can't do that,… that is, unless you are playing the hapless Sabres.

Edited March 16 by SwampD

[SwampD]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Unfortunately He’s playing this afternoon against Detroit.

Of course he is.