GDT: Buffalo Sabres @ Detroit Red Wings 3/12/25 7:30 pm TNT

[mjd1001]

For those who are interested in analytics...last one line was pretty good, the rest not so much:

-Benson-Norris-Thompson:  +16%Corsi for vs against, +8.3% Fenwick, +21% shots for vs agains, +1 es as a line, +6% expected goals.

-Zucker-McLeod-Tuch and Kreb-Malenstyn-Lafferty were well into the negative territory in most categories

Lines changed throughout the game so there were a few combos that were hard to track as they only had a couple shifts between them.  Greenway-Krebs-Quinn actually had positive metrics across the board, but they were only together for 2m49s.  Also, almost 1/3 of the game was played with someone in the box, so a very low percentage of play 5 on 5 compred to an average game.

Statistically, the middle 2 lines, goaltending (.759 save percentage), and PK killed them last night (Detroit 3 for 5 on the PP).

A lot of people say Dahlin has to be frustrated, how well he plays most of the time and the rest of the team is awful.  Thompson has to be in the same category. He scores, and whatever line you put him on controls play, yet the team falls apart when a line other than his is out there.

 

Edited March 13 by mjd1001

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Kane was available at the height of “no blockers”.  When every Adams draft choice was a future all Star.  

Posts like this should be made with "invisible ink" or some "click through for explicit content" filters.

So upsetting.

26 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

and our big stay at home defender is taking tickets in the crowd.  If he played defense like Bill Hajt (a guy that didn’t fight but still played physical, smart, and strong) I wouldn’t care as much but he doesn’t.  

as cruel (and stupid) children, we used to make fun of Hajt for being "steady" (and, in our eyes, super boring). Now, I'd give just about anything (hockey-related) for the Sabres to find a modern day Bill Hajt. I realize now that, among other things, dude played that quietly heavy game.

[JohnC]

 I only watched part of the game because I get so aggravated watching them play. The Sabres have become the medicinal solution to what ails struggling teams. That's embarrassing that we have sunk to such a low. The discussion about individual players and their flaws is wasteful and futile. That really doesn't get to the source of the current problem: the sycophantic GM who assembled this roster. What makes this roster even more alarming is what it is now at the end product of five years of rebuilding. What makes this travesty of a team even more ridiculous is that after five years of rebuilding this roster again has to be significantly deconstructed to be reconstructed.

The owner is the primary source of the demise of this franchise and incredible erosion of this fanbase. Make no mistake that this weirdly silent owner has never been shy with firing people in his football and hockey franchises. Yet he has been inexplicably loyal to this ill-equipped GM who has constructed a roster/team that resides at the bottom of the garbage heap. 

Until this owner decides to hire competent people to run the hockey operation and allows them to do their jobs, this mocked franchise will continue to be a laughed at miniscule franchise. I'm so tired of this fool owner. 

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

 I only watched part of the game because I get so aggravated watching them play. The Sabres have become the medicinal solution to what ails struggling teams. That's embarrassing that we have sunk to such a low. The discussion about individual players and their flaws is wasteful and futile. That really doesn't get to the source of the current problem: the sycophantic GM who assembled this roster. What makes this roster even more alarming is what it is now at the end product of five years of rebuilding. What makes this travesty of a team even more ridiculous is that after five years of rebuilding this roster again has to be significantly deconstructed to be reconstructed.

The owner is the primary source of the demise of this franchise and incredible erosion of this fanbase. Make no mistake that this weirdly silent owner has never been shy with firing people in his football and hockey franchises. Yet he has been inexplicably loyal to this ill-equipped GM who has constructed a roster/team that resides at the bottom of the garbage heap. 

Until this owner decides to hire competent people to run the hockey operation and allows them to do their jobs, this mocked franchise will continue to be a laughed at miniscule franchise. I'm so tired of this fool owner. 

I agree with your overall premise. However as per the bolded above....the discussion about individual players is NOT wasteful and futile.

If you accept, as most do, that the management/GM/owner of this team is at fault, then it is logical to say that if someone else comes in to clean up the mess, they are going to have to evaulate the individual players. Whoever is at fault, a larger part of 'fixing' the mess is based on getting rid of the players who are not good enough, and evaluation/talk about them is part of it.

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree with your overall premise. However as per the bolded above....the discussion about individual players is NOT wasteful and futile.

If you accept, as most do, that the management/GM/owner of this team is at fault, then it is logical to say that if someone else comes in to clean up the mess, they are going to have to evaulate the individual players. Whoever is at fault, a larger part of 'fixing' the mess is based on getting rid of the players who are not good enough, and evaluation/talk about them is part of it.

When getting into discussions about the abilities of our players it is a futile discussion right now because the person who has put together this assemblage is the same person who is expected to rearrange the roster that he, himself, put together. That's like going back to the surgeon to correct the glaring mistake he made on the operating table. Are you going to have confidence in his judgment and correction? I wouldn't. I'd go see another doctor to fix what was unnecessarily damaged. 

We need fresh eyes to examine this roster and rework it. When the person doing the fix is the same person who did the damage, then you are repeating the cycle of chasing your own tail. If you want substantive change, then you have to make substantive and dramatic change from the current decision makers. Getting the right person at the helm of the hockey operation will be the most impactful decision that our silent owner can make to correct the fiasco that he has wrought on this franchise. The owner should be ashamed of himself and stop hiding behind the curtain of silence. I'm tired of him. 

[Mustache of God]

2 hours ago, sabresouth said:

The fact that Bryson has been on this team for how many years now, is just one more of many indictments of ka's pathetic management of this team

Sigh....

For years I have been saying that as long at Bryson is on this team they will not make the playoffs. 

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, Mustache of God said:

For years I have been saying that as long at Bryson is on this team they will not make the playoffs. 

I'd lump Krebs, Samuelsson, Clifton, and lafferty (i've seen enough) in on that going into next season.  

[Archie Lee]

30 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree with your overall premise. However as per the bolded above....the discussion about individual players is NOT wasteful and futile.

If you accept, as most do, that the management/GM/owner of this team is at fault, then it is logical to say that if someone else comes in to clean up the mess, they are going to have to evaulate the individual players. Whoever is at fault, a larger part of 'fixing' the mess is based on getting rid of the players who are not good enough, and evaluation/talk about them is part of it.

Fan assessment and debate on individual players is, of course, fine. It’s a big part of why many of us are here. I just think that every evaluation of a Sabre player needs an asterisk that clarifies that they are playing on a poorly constructed team, that is poorly coached, and that has a destructive culture.  We have ignored those factors in our evaluations before. 

[DarthEbriate]

4 hours ago, Weave said:

From Bluesky:

If you buyout Mattias Samuelsson this offseason, it’s $714k per year for 10 years.

If you wait a year, it becomes $1.4M per year for 8 years.

This should be an easy decision.
 

Someday i will figure out how to embed a bluesky post.

Ehrhoff isn't off the ledger yet, though his payments do not count against the cap.

[HumanSlinky39]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

From Bluesky:

If you buyout Mattias Samuelsson this offseason, it’s $714k per year for 10 years.

If you wait a year, it becomes $1.4M per year for 8 years.

This should be an easy decision.
 

Someday i will figure out how to embed a bluesky post.

Yeah, seems like a no-brainer. He doesn't contribute a lick offensively, he contributes next to nothing defensively, and despite wearing an "A", he will not stick up for his teammates. He is the definition of a "do nothing" player...or a JAG. All at $4MM per season. 

But this is the Sabres we're talking about, and more importantly, this is Kevyn Adams we're talking about. I don't see him as tradeable at all, because even with some retention, what has he shown that would make a real NHL team interested in him? And if he cannot trade him, I cannot see Adams admitting what a foolish contract that was. So we're likely saddled with him until God knows when.

Edited March 13 by HumanSlinky39

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just when I thought the Sabres couldn’t sink any lower, they did.  I watch part of the game and was so disgusted I turned it off.  Samuelsson needs to be trade or bought out.  Power needs to be traded this off-season as well.  He is literally useless as a defender.  I’d love to see bench the $8 million man.  

The only players I saw last night that played at all like they give a crap were Norris, TNT and Benson.  

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, BlowLeafsBlow123 said:

[Kane] probably would've come here with a competent, veteran GM and President of Hockey Ops in place. But, can you imagine a Hall of Famer having a chat with Adams and feeling like it's a smart career move?

It was also a timing issue. He was returning from surgery within weeks of Quinn returning from his offseason Achilles. A smart, savvy GM gets Kane and sends Quinn back to Rochester for the rest of the season as a rehab. A "no-blockers!" GM does not.

A better GM than either of those gets a veteran forward replacement in the summer the instant Quinn goes down, because the team had moved on from Olofsson  roster-wise if not contractually. Tarasenko, a player like Zucker, etc. should have been a priority that offseason. If Quinn comes back 100% all the better; if he fails to come back, then go get Kane, too.

10 hours ago, Thorner said:

Something around 20th in even strength differential. Ya they are good when you break it down FURTHER to just 5 V 5 AND just goals for but that’s sort of the rub, innit 

we can call it breaking it down but what it actually is is bias 

5 on 5, the top 10 scoring teams including Buffalo have goal differentials of: +43, +18, +6 BUF, +25, +14, +25, +42, +10, -7, and +1. Those teams with small plusses are either really good defensively (Vegas at +14, Carolina +10), or poor defensively, but with elite offensive talent and a killer PP (Edmonton at +1). And then there's the outlier: the Rangers at -7, who have been a trainwreck all season (and not getting elite Shesterkin goaltending). 

[Thorner]

13 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

It was also a timing issue. He was returning from surgery within weeks of Quinn returning from his offseason Achilles. A smart, savvy GM gets Kane and sends Quinn back to Rochester for the rest of the season as a rehab. A "no-blockers!" GM does not.

A better GM than either of those gets a veteran forward replacement in the summer the instant Quinn goes down, because the team had moved on from Olofsson  roster-wise if not contractually. Tarasenko, a player like Zucker, etc. should have been a priority that offseason. If Quinn comes back 100% all the better; if he fails to come back, then go get Kane, too.

5 on 5, the top 10 scoring teams including Buffalo have goal differentials of: +43, +18, +6 BUF, +25, +14, +25, +42, +10, -7, and +1. Those teams with small plusses are either really good defensively (Vegas at +14, Carolina +10), or poor defensively, but with elite offensive talent and a killer PP (Edmonton at +1). And then there's the outlier: the Rangers at -7, who have been a trainwreck all season (and not getting elite Shesterkin goaltending). 

I’m stealing this for my twitter 

 

Edited March 13 by Thorner

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Just when I thought the Sabres couldn’t sink any lower, they did.  I watch part of the game and was so disgusted I turned it off.  Samuelsson needs to be trade or bought out.  Power needs to be traded this off-season as well.  He is literally useless as a defender.  I’d love to see bench the $8 million man.  

The only players I saw last night that played at all like they give a crap were Norris, TNT and Benson.  

Zach Benson had a game last night. It got buried under the shenanigans of Buffalo losing by a boatload but Benson has skills and should stay with skilled player. 

[mjd1001]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Zach Benson had a game last night. It got buried under the shenanigans of Buffalo losing by a boatload but Benson has skills and should stay with skilled player. 

That entire first line played well.  Not perfect, they did allow a few good chances against, but overall that Benson-Norris-Tage line outplayed Detroit.  It was the PK, goalie, and most of the rest of the team that was bad.

[Archie Lee]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Zach Benson had a game last night. It got buried under the shenanigans of Buffalo losing by a boatload but Benson has skills and should stay with skilled player. 

Agreed. He might be our best playmaking forward. He fits well with Norris and Thompson. Regardless of what I think about Benson being in the NHL, he’s here and he’s capable. He is a skilled player and he should be playing with other skilled players. 

[DarthEbriate]

57 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Agreed. He might be our best playmaking forward. He fits well with Norris and Thompson. Regardless of what I think about Benson being in the NHL, he’s here and he’s capable. He is a skilled player and he should be playing with other skilled players. 

Benson just needs someone willing to go to the high-danger spots on the ice.

As directed at Quinn a couple games ago: when you're on the ice with Benson, go to the front of the net and stay there. He will get the puck to you.

[Thorner]

As much as I try to hold their toes to the fire, my glasses are nevertheless hopelessly rose tinted in that, as much as Benson is still finding his footing, and as little proven as Norris is as a mainstay top 6 C, nm a 1C, it’s a mark of how good Thompson is as a legitimate 1st line threat that I can *see* that line working out for a playoff-bound Sabres team next season.

It comes with a few huge caveats though - Benson probably *is* our best playmaking F right now and I’m already counting on another add later in this post and I doubt we get two big ones, so he’ll have to take a sizeable jump in actual production and find those assists. That’s the hope portion id be willing to stomach if:

- Kulich isn’t the 2C. It’s way too big of a question mark to latch on to an already question top line. Imagine a competent vet legitimate 2C add (is this even possible for Adams) paired with Peterka and Tuch, and things are looking salvageable. If we are hoping on a fledgling Kulich, at the risk of 15 years, we are playing with dynamite. I’d argue insulting so, and the fuse is short. 

Yes, there’s McLeod, but the ceiling is too low there. The floor lowers even a little and a borderline, low level 2C if you squint is no 2C at all. 

Benson - Norris - Thompson

Peterka - ??? - Tuch

Zucker - McLeod - Kulich

Greenway - ??? - Malenstyn/Quinn

 

At a bare minimum, the ??? spaces need legit adds. 

Edited March 13 by Thorner

[North Buffalo]

Im ok with Krebs as 4th liner... he had a crap game but have seen him playing better of late... yep Sabres need a #2 center... and a bunch of heavy defenders...

Quinn needs rehab and 20 lbs.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, North Buffalo said:

Im ok with Krebs as 4th liner... he had a crap game but have seen him playing better of late... yep Sabres need a #2 center... and a bunch of heavy defenders...

Quinn needs rehab and 20 lbs.

 

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

Benson - Norris - Thompson

Peterka - ??? - Tuch

Zucker - McLeod - Kulich

Greenway - ??? - Malenstyn/Quinn

 

At a bare minimum, the ??? spaces need legit adds. 

Was corrected on twitter about this, it probably IS easier / more likely we add a top 6 RW this summer than a c, as they are harder to come by. We know Thompson works at C so the bare minimum side of things could easily read:

Benson - Thompson - ???

Peterka - Norris - Tuch

Zucker - McLeod - Kulich

Greenway - ??? - Malenstyn/Quinn

 

To my eye it’s a Marner sized hole (we won’t get Marner). But for me same logic applies: whether it’s top 6 C or W the need is there 

we have the means 

we have the drought 

Edited March 13 by Thorner

[ska-T Palmtown]

2 hours ago, Thorner said:

 

Was corrected on twitter about this, it probably IS easier / more likely we add a top 6 RW this summer than a c, as they are harder to come by. We know Thompson works at C so the bare minimum side of things could easily read:

Benson - Thompson - ???

Peterka - Norris - Tuch

Zucker - McLeod - Kulich

Greenway - ??? - Malenstyn/Quinn

 

To my eye it’s a Marner sized hole (we won’t get Marner). But for me same logic applies: whether it’s top 6 C or W the need is there 

we have the means 

we have the drought 

We are spending too much for too little production in other areas to go get Marner 😞 

It is kind of odd, now with Cozens gone, many of our good(ish) forwards seem like good deals. I don't think any of our forwards could be classified as a significant overpay.

But the overspending on what we are currently getting at D? Oy.

[Thorner]

51 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

We are spending too much for too little production in other areas to go get Marner 😞 

It is kind of odd, now with Cozens gone, many of our good(ish) forwards seem like good deals. I don't think any of our forwards could be classified as a significant overpay.

But the overspending on what we are currently getting at D? Oy.

Marner would be the elixir that stirs the drink up top. I’ll hold out hope I guess 

[BlowLeafsBlow123]

44 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Marner would be the elixir that stirs the drink up top. I’ll hold out hope I guess 

He's precisely what they need, especially if they keep Norris at the top of the lineup. Either way though, having Marner and Tage together at ES and PP would be dynamite. He'd allow you get creative with how you setup the lines.

The problem right now is the lack of playmakers throughout the lineup. They have guys that can bury pucks and shoot above their expected goals (Thompson, Norris, Tuch, maybe Peterka). But not a single one of them is a proven passer/playmaker/creator. I'd argue they need two players like that, ideally one in the middle and one on the wing. Then development and improvement from Quinn and/or Benson would become the "gravy" it should've been over the last few seasons. Adams relying on these younger guys in top 9 roles for three years in a row is possibly his biggest blunder, up there with not finding a real partner for Power.

That said, Benson is a core piece to me, even if he's never a true top 6 forward (I think he's capable). He's actually someone I'd be willing to sign long term someday, still not sold on Peterka or Quinn in that regard.

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, BlowLeafsBlow123 said:

He's precisely what they need, especially if they keep Norris at the top of the lineup. Either way though, having Marner and Tage together at ES and PP would be dynamite. He'd allow you get creative with how you setup the lines.

The problem right now is the lack of playmakers throughout the lineup. They have guys that can bury pucks and shoot above their expected goals (Thompson, Norris, Tuch, maybe Peterka). But not a single one of them is a proven passer/playmaker/creator. I'd argue they need two players like that, ideally one in the middle and one on the wing. Then development and improvement from Quinn and/or Benson would become the "gravy" it should've been over the last few seasons. Adams relying on these younger guys in top 9 roles for three years in a row is possibly his biggest blunder, up there with not finding a real partner for Power.

That said, Benson is a core piece to me, even if he's never a true top 6 forward (I think he's capable). He's actually someone I'd be willing to sign long term someday, still not sold on Peterka or Quinn in that regard.

I agree with this mostly, though Tuch is a good passer of the puck and honestly last I looked throughly Peterka seemed to be, too: but frankly I haven’t watched a full 60 this year so that could be dated. Pretty confident on Tuch, though. But yes Marner would drastically outstrip them. Marner and a partner for Power would be the two big adds. Then take another shot at 4C and add a defensive D for the bottom pair and I think we might be ok. The key aspect is the big swing upfront. It’s not just the player; it’s the message it would send to *all the other* players and perhaps goes somewhat of the way to shrinking the inconsistencies that arise from the constant doubt they must feel regarding the team’s commitment to winning  

Edited March 13 by Thorner

[BlowLeafsBlow123]

2 minutes ago, Thorner said:

I agree with this mostly, though Tuch is a good passer of the puck and honestly last I looked throughly Peterka seemed to be, too: but frankly I haven’t watched a full 60 this year so that could be dated. Pretty confident on Tuch, though. But yes Marner would drastically outstrip them. Marner and a partner for Power would be the two big adds. Then take another shot at 4C and add a defensive D for the bottom pair and I think we might be ok. The key aspect is the big swing upfront. It’s not just the player; it’s the message it would send to *all the other* players and perhaps goes somewhat of the way to shrinking the inconsistencies that arise from the constant doubt they must feel regarding the team’s commitment to winning  

Yeah, I'm not seeing playmaking from either Tuch or Peterka on a consistent basis. Tuch makes things happen, plays an alpha game by getting in on pucks and playing a more aggressive straight line game. But I don't see creativity from either of them consistently, like we used to see from Eichel/Reinhart/O'Reilly for instance. Those guys all saw the ice much better than this current crop of top 6'ers. We need someone that can come in and calmly make tape to tape passes on the PP in key moments, like we saw Pat Kane do last night. It truly feels like the missing ingredient and something I'd loved to fill by trading Cozens. While Norris is an upgrade as a center, he's not an upgrade as a playmaker by any means.