Is Tage Thompson a winger?

[Carmel Corn]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Why isn't McLeod? His defensive metrics are good, his offense is decent. If they put him at 2c for a full season you might have a 50pt center thats good defensively which is exactly what you need. 

There's no chance in hell Adams is trading for a 2c this offseason. He doesn't have the guts because it would require him trading someone like Kulich or Peterka and then some to get that player. 

I agree that McLeod has shown something more than I expected this season.   If the choice were between Cozens and McLeod as our 2C, I would definitely agree that it's easily McLeod.  I can only say that I had a higher expectations of how Adams would construct the spine and that McLeod was brought in to be our 3C.  IMHO with TNT as a winger now, we are back to needing another top 6 center who has offensive/playmaking.  If it turns out to be McLeod, I agree with you that we could do worse.....but I also think we need an insurance policy (in case of injury) of another 2C or 3C who can play top 6. 

Also IMHO - I still see Kulich as a winger, not a center.

Edited March 11 by Carmel Corn

[dudacek]

23 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

He should play first line, unfortunately his two way game as a center is not very good, especially against opponents top lines and top D pairs.

This may have been true once, but it’s not been the case this season.

His on-ice goals for percentage this year is 58.4% - those are very good 2-way numbers, tied with Point and just ahead of Draisaitl and Marner.

He consistently faces the other team’s best defenders and consistently wins those battles, despite playing for the Sabres.

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=puckPossessions&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20242025&seasonTo=20242025&gameType=2&position=F&filter=timeOnIcePerGame5v5,gte,13&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,50&sort=goalsPct&page=0&pageSize=50

[Crusader1969]

5 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

Way too early to think he could be that. That’s also if he stays healthy

Why is it too early?  The guy is 26 or 27 years of age 

if he meshes with Tage, you definitely have the 1C

I wonder if you offer Marner the opportunity to be a center his own line ( and $14 mill)? I'm assuming this would be something that would entice him 

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Why isn't McLeod? His defensive metrics are good, his offense is decent. If they put him at 2c for a full season you might have a 50pt center thats good defensively which is exactly what you need. 

There's no chance in hell Adams is trading for a 2c this offseason. He doesn't have the guts because it would require him trading someone like Kulich or Peterka and then some to get that player. 

I agree that McLeod and Kulich would be a decent 2/3 behind Norris 

[Crusader1969]

59 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

I know.  I was mostly joking.  I don’t think we will have a shot at him. 

Huh? The team is bottom 3/4 in the league.   They have a real good chance to get him 

[Sidc3000]

25 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

if he meshes with Tage, you definitely have the 1C

It takes time to for chemistry. We’ll see what happens. 🤷‍♂️

Edited March 11 by Sidc3000

[Thorner]

39 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I agree that McLeod and Kulich would be a decent 2/3 behind Norris 

 

35 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Huh? The team is bottom 3/4 in the league.   They have a real good chance to get him 

 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

This may have been true once, but it’s not been the case this season.

His on-ice goals for percentage this year is 58.4% - those are very good 2-way numbers, tied with Point and just ahead of Draisaitl and Marner.

He consistently faces the other team’s best defenders and consistently wins those battles, despite playing for the Sabres.

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=puckPossessions&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20242025&seasonTo=20242025&gameType=2&position=F&filter=timeOnIcePerGame5v5,gte,13&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,50&sort=goalsPct&page=0&pageSize=50

Good to learn this.  Hoping he gets selected for the US Olympic team. 

[Mr. Allen]

40 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Huh? The team is bottom 3/4 in the league.   They have a real good chance to get him 

I think he goes top 2, maybe 3.  And we miss out on him.  We’ll have a good pick, but I’m not sure if it’ll be top 3. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, xzy89c1 said:

the only player on this team who is an equivalent of a 1 type player is Dahlin as a first pair dman. We have no first line type players when compared to best players in the league. Thompson has a chance as a winger. Needs to improve consistency and 200 foot game. 

No, Thompson's definitely a top line winger now. Both him and Dahlin have reached their maturity level and are elite players. They should remain what they are into their 30's and then decline slowly as players do. 

The new guy has top line skills. The only thing about him that makes him questionable is the durability. If he stays healthy we have 2/3 of a top line. I doubt he stays healthy though. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Mr. Allen said:

I think he goes top 2, maybe 3.  And we miss out on him.  We’ll have a good pick, but I’m not sure if it’ll be top 3. 

My gut says we end up with Hagens and this place melts down. 

[dudacek]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

My gut says we end up with Hagens and this place melts down. 

This just seems inevitable.

[GASabresIUFAN]

It's kind of nice to be arguing that we have 4 possible legit centers for 3 jobs.  It's kinda of a nice problem to have.  This breads flexibility.  The next HC (Ruff or someone else) can mix and match to see which combos are affective.  Personally, I like TNT on the wing.  

Right now 7 of the top 9 forwards heading into next season are locked in with TNT, Tuch, JJP, Zucker, Kulich, Norris, and McLeod.   Beyond them are Greenway, Quinn, Benson and possibly Rosen fighting for the last 2 jobs in the top 9.  

[dudacek]

43 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It's kind of nice to be arguing that we have 4 possible legit centers for 3 jobs.  It's kinda of a nice problem to have.  This breads flexibility.  The next HC (Ruff or someone else) can mix and match to see which combos are affective.  Personally, I like TNT on the wing.  

Right now 7 of the top 9 forwards heading into next season are locked in with TNT, Tuch, JJP, Zucker, Kulich, Norris, and McLeod.   Beyond them are Greenway, Quinn, Benson and possibly Rosen fighting for the last 2 jobs in the top 9.  

So basically the same forwards that matter as this year, except swapping Cozens for Norris?

Locked in? 

Are you saying this is what you like, or what Adams will do?

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So basically the same forwards that matter as this year, except swapping Cozens for Norris?

Locked in? 

Are you saying this is what you like, or what Adams will do?

Adams.  Tuch and TNT are under contract and are our best forwards.  Adams acquired Norris and McLeod.  He just re-signed Zucker and stated that JJP is a core player who isn’t on the trade market. Kulich is also one of Adams key draftees and truthfully his play this season has earned him an opportunity next year.  I’d say as long as Adams remains GM those 7 will certainly (barring injury) be in the top 9 next fall.  

[dudacek]

All four of these players have ES ATOI within 40 seconds of each other.

• Krebs ES points: 17; Goals For %: 46.3; SAT 50.9%; most common linemates Lafferty/Malenstyn
• Benson ES points: 18; Goals For % 46.7; SAT 55.7%; most common linemates Krebs/Quinn
• Kulich ES points: 19; Goals For % 50.0; SAT 52.1%; most common linemates Tage/Peterka
• Quinn ES points: 14; Goals For % 40.0; SAT 50.2%; most common linemates Peterka/Cozens

Benson’s shot attempt stats and Quinn’s +/- stick out, but I find it really hard to find compelling statistical evidence to support any of them as being significantly better than the others.

Particularly when linemates are taken into account.

Edited March 12 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

All four of these players have ES ATOI within 40 seconds of each other.

• Krebs ES points: 17; Goals For %: 46.3; SAT 50.9%; most common linemates Lafferty/Malenstyn
• Benson ES points: 18; Goals For % 46.7; SAT 55.7%; most common linemates Krebs/Quinn
• Kulich ES points: 19; Goals For % 50.0; SAT 52.1%; most common linemates Tage/Peterka
• Quinn ES points: 14; Goals For % 40.0; SAT 50.2%; most common linemates Peterka/Cozens

Benson’s shot attempt stats and Quinn’s +/- stick out, but I find it really hard to find compelling statistical evidence to support any of them as being significantly better than the others.

Particularly when linemates are taken into account.

Only one with a + xgf% is Benson.

[Thorner]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It's kind of nice to be arguing that we have 4 possible legit centers for 3 jobs.  It's kinda of a nice problem to have.  This breads flexibility.  The next HC (Ruff or someone else) can mix and match to see which combos are affective.  Personally, I like TNT on the wing.  

Right now 7 of the top 9 forwards heading into next season are locked in with TNT, Tuch, JJP, Zucker, Kulich, Norris, and McLeod.   Beyond them are Greenway, Quinn, Benson and possibly Rosen fighting for the last 2 jobs in the top 9.  

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Only one with a + xgf% is Benson.

Since he seems incapable of scoring goals from outside of 12 feet, it’s good to see that he takes most of his shots from inside that range.

Sure wish he took more actual shots and put more of them in the net though. Krebs is objectively terrible at both, but Zach has not been good at those things either.

That probably sounds snarkier than intended. It’s a good thing Benson gets to the net and my eye test also says his backchecking this year is better than Kulich and is miles better than Quinn.

But let’s not confuse his expected goals for with his ability to produce offence.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Since he seems incapable of scoring goals from outside of 12 feet, it’s good to see that he takes most of his shots from inside that range.

Sure wish he took more actual shots and put more of them in the net though. Krebs is objectively terrible at both, but Zach has not been good at those things either.

That probably sounds snarkier than intended. It’s a good thing Benson gets to the net and my eye test also says his backchecking this year is better than Kulich and is miles better than Quinn.

But let’s not confuse his expected goals for with his ability to produce offence.

You are ignoring his ability to score goals with his ability to prevent them. On top of that scoring goals is one thing, creating offense is another. Benson creates offense and the numbers show that and his play shows that. On top of that, he's one of the best defensive forwards on the team. Sure, he needs to get better, but he's already a top 9 forward and he's better than Kulich. He just doesn't have a sexy shot that makes people go "ooooo".

xGF% is math. Your expected goals for divided by your expected goals again and made into a percentage. If Benson sucks so much as shooting and needs to shoot more etc... that would mean that having a positive xGF% for him, equates to being elite defensively to counter balance his lack of scoring. 

[Thorner]

Every team has a guy like Benson, several times over. It’s not that he isn’t good for a 19 year old, it’s that the fact he stands out SO MUCH FROM THE REST OF OUR TEAM that’s the problem 

Edited March 12 by Thorner

[LGR4GM]

Shot percentages:

Benson, 10.3%

Kulich, 11.9%

Krebs, 8.6%

Quinn, 10.3%

xGF%

Benson, 50.41%

Kulich, 46.52%

Krebs, 45.09%

Quinn, 42.68%

[dudacek]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You are ignoring his ability to score goals with his ability to prevent them. On top of that scoring goals is one thing, creating offense is another. Benson creates offense and the numbers show that and his play shows that. On top of that, he's one of the best defensive forwards on the team. Sure, he needs to get better, but he's already a top 9 forward and he's better than Kulich. He just doesn't have a sexy shot that makes people go "ooooo".

xGF% is math. Your expected goals for divided by your expected goals again and made into a percentage. If Benson sucks so much as shooting and needs to shoot more etc... that would mean that having a positive xGF% for him, equates to being elite defensively to counter balance his lack of scoring. 

I don’t think we’re really arguing here. Benson is a good defensive forward and his expected goals % shows that.

Your initial post was good and relevant to my initial post.

I think Benson has been a better player than the other 3 this year.

Edited March 12 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I don’t think we’re really arguing here. Benson is a good defensive forward and his expected goals % shows that.

Your initial post was good and relevant to my initial post.

I think Benson has been a better player than the other 3 this year.

I think we are disagreeing a bit. Your suggestion is that Benson needs to shoot more and be a better shooter. I sorta agree but he's a decent shooter (about average) and his ability to get pucks out of his own zone and into the offensive zone is amazing. Keep in mind, his numbers have almost no PP time either. 3 pp pts this season in limited minutes. I wish shot assists were better tracked because that is where Benson is going to excel, he's certainly not there yet and needs to get better though. I would agree there. 

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think we are disagreeing a bit. Your suggestion is that Benson needs to shoot more and be a better shooter. I sorta agree but he's a decent shooter (about average) and his ability to get pucks out of his own zone and into the offensive zone is amazing. Keep in mind, his numbers have almost no PP time either. 3 pp pts this season in limited minutes. I wish shot assists were better tracked because that is where Benson is going to excel, he's certainly not there yet and needs to get better though. I would agree there. 

 

Can Benson produce the type of offensive numbers that elevate him from a good checking winger into a good top 6 winger? That’s the question that’s grown in my mind watching him this season. What’s the upside?

He’s got the brain and the work ethic. Does he have the physical gifts?

Im sure it was argument in the scouting meetings as well.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, dudacek said:

 

Can Benson produce the type of offensive numbers that elevate him from a good checking winger into a good top 6 winger? That’s the question that’s grown in my mind watching him this season. What’s the upside?

He’s got the brain and the work ethic. Does he have the physical gifts?

Im sure it was argument in the scouting meetings as well.

25g, 50a.