Dahlin Met With GMKA, Turn it Around or He’s Gone

[That Aud Smell]

49 minutes ago, LTS said:

I've been working in highly functioning organizations with remote workers for years now. A person's ability to communicate and perform their job is not a function of where they are located. It's a function of themselves.

Working remotely is fine for a LOT of jobs. The guy who runs my entire organization is not located in a market where we do business. Most of the people in his leadership team are not. We've been highly successful.

What is the advantage of being there, in market, day after day?  And keep in mind, it doesn't mean he's never in Buffalo (all of a 3 hour drive away).

There's obviously a huge debate ongoing about this. And I don't mean to try to resolve it here.

I am speaking from personal experience -- for myself as an individual, regarding my company's experience generally, and regarding the businesses of many other organizations with which I am connected. In my experience, the management trend is inexorably bent toward getting people together, face to face, as much the labor force will abide. And that sort of thing varies from industry to industry, from profession to profession.

Recent example: I was part of a search committee for a C-Suite exec (not the CEO - but a direct report) of a 9-figure annual nonprofit. We had one leading candidate currently residing ~80 miles from headquarters. They asked if they could work remotely for most of the time and be on-site a few times a month or otherwise as needed. We've passed on their candidacy. The current CEO and the other C-levels agree: We need that person here with us.

43 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Ya there’s definitely a line, wanted to say this yesterday and I forgot 

as an exercise, how would we feel if Adams lived in Pittsburgh? That’s what I thought 

I’m sure there’s a level of employee we wouldn’t care / it wouldn’t matter but I don’t think it arises at assistant GM

Associate GM!

[That Aud Smell]

9 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I believe Friedman was implying he was Biz’s Source for the Dahlin Rumor 

Haha. Now I wonder -- did Biz understand it correctly from Friedman -- and has Friedman since been asked to clean up the mess?

Also, Biz should be more careful. If I were Friedman and I was in fact Biz's "source," I'd be pissed at Biz.

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

There's obviously a huge debate ongoing about this. And I don't mean to try to resolve it here.

I am speaking from personal experience -- for myself as an individual, regarding my company's experience generally, and regarding the businesses of many other organizations with which I am connected. In my experience, the management trend is inexorably bent toward getting people together, face to face, as much the labor force will abide. And that sort of thing varies from industry to industry, from profession to profession.

Recent example: I was part of a search committee for a C-Suite exec (not the CEO - but a direct report) of a 9-figure annual nonprofit. We had one leading candidate currently residing ~80 miles from headquarters. They asked if they could work remotely for most of the time and be on-site a few times a month or otherwise as needed. We've passed on their candidacy. The current CEO and the other C-levels agree: We need that person here with us.

Associate GM!

Associate to the GM

[Mango]

5 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Update from the 32 Thoughts Pod. FWIW Elliott Friedman mentioned that the meeting between Adams and Dahlin went well and that Dahlin was satisfied with what he heard in the meeting. 
 

 

I haven't listened yet but I heard he said that the "Big Move!" was trading Cozens and not to expect anything bigger this summer. Or something along those lines.

It's wild to me that that was also part of the same conversation that Dahlin "felt good" about.

Imagine being an NHL player on this roster. Having a special 1 on 1 about the direction of the franchise and the GM says "We traded Cozens don't expect anything bigger than that".

...Then walking out and thinking "man I feel really good about the direction of this franchise"...

If this is true Dahlin is either definitely asking for a trade or the least competitive guy to be a top 10 player at his position in league history.

 

[Stoner]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

I haven't listened yet but I heard he said that the "Big Move!" was trading Cozens and not to expect anything bigger this summer. Or something along those lines.

It's wild to me that that was also part of the same conversation that Dahlin "felt good" about.

Imagine being an NHL player on this roster. Having a special 1 on 1 about the direction of the franchise and the GM says "We traded Cozens don't expect anything bigger than that".

...Then walking out and thinking "man I feel really good about the direction of this franchise"...

If this is true Dahlin is either definitely asking for a trade or the least competitive guy to be a top 10 player at his position in league history.

 

Ras said after the trade that "a lot of stuff has to happen." No one wants to ask what will happen if it doesn't.

[Carmel Corn]

There is only one thing GMKA could have told Dahlin that could possibly mean the Sabres are serious…..and that is “I am resigning at the end of the season”.   Anything else Kevin might have said is based only on good intentions, but in fact won’t happen because Kevin can’t get it done.

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, Pimlach said:

He is the Assistant GM in Buffalo AND he is the GM in Rochester.  He should spend some time in both cities.  These are higher lever management jobs in the Sabres organization.   Collaboration is critical.  The hockey organization under Pegula is broken, which has been true since he fired Regier.  

 

 

 

As you point out, the notion that one of your highest-ranking staff members in the organization resides in another city is ridiculous. It defies common sense. Doesn't the reticent billionaire owner recognize how abnormal this staffing situation is?  The owner has made a lot of befuddling/weird decisions. Allowing one of the top two or three staff people to work remotely from out of town is an absurdity at a grotesque level. What the hellll was the owner and sycophantic GM thinking when they approved of this unusual arrangement? I'm tired of the clownish manner in which this franchise is being managed. The owner needs to sell the franchise that he damaged so much. He ought to be ashamed of himself. The problem is that he lacks the self-awareness to recognize his culpability in this failed franchise. 

[mjd1001]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

As you point out, the notion that one of your highest-ranking staff members in the organization resides in another city is ridiculous. It defies common sense. Doesn't the reticent billionaire owner recognize how abnormal this staffing situation is?  The owner has made a lot of befuddling/weird decisions. Allowing one of the top two or three staff people to work remotely from out of town is an absurdity at a grotesque level. What the hellll was the owner and sycophantic GM thinking when they approved of this unusual arrangement? I'm tired of the clownish manner in which this franchise is being managed. The owner needs to sell the franchise that he damaged so much. He ought to be ashamed of himself. The problem is that he lacks the self-awareness to recognize his culpability in this failed franchise. 

If I'm not mistaken, Brendan Shanahan is the president of the Leafs hockey operations, and he lived (or still lives) in the NY city metro area.  If he doesn't still live here full time, he did for a period of years during his tenure as president.

Edited Friday at 06:35 PM by mjd1001

[shrader]

55 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Associate to the GM

Which begs the question: just what the hell does an assistant or associate GM (or to the GM) do anyway?

[That Aud Smell]

1 minute ago, shrader said:

Which begs the question: just what the hell does an assistant or associate GM (or to the GM) do anyway?

they're "thought partners."

that's the new hip lexicon, anyway.

[JohnC]

16 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

If I'm not mistaken, Brendan Shanahan is the president of the Leafs hockey operations, and he lived (or still lives) in the NY city metro area.  If he doesn't still live here full time, he did for a period of years during his tenure as president.

I'm sure that Shanahan's role is more about general oversight rather than daily operation. Also, our sycophantic GM is to put it mildly is very inexperienced compared to every other GM. He needs a high level presence around him to guide him away from his foolish inclinations. If a remote arrangement is made for other organizations, and it works, then more power to them. There is no one that can say the remote arrangement is working for this flailing franchise. 

[Thorner]

They HAVE to salvage this with Dahlin. Might be the only player on the roster I still have a legit connection to. The lottery win in 2018 literally represents maybe the only truly joyous Sabres moment in a decade. Cannot afford to let him slip by 

[In The Buff]

As for Karmanos in Pittsburgh, look at it a different way:

What benefit can there be to our team, for our Assistant GM not being in Buffalo? 

Now what benefit could there be if he were in Buffalo? See what is easier? Their offices could be in eye sight to one another, randomly bouncing ideas & questions at each other thruout the day. Even assuring both are on the same page etc.

After missing the playoffs for so many years, having 1 of your more seasoned hockey guys work in the building, just seems to make more sense than him being off site.

Just like how maybe its not ideal to have the youngest hockey team in the league, year in & year out. These are anomalies that are self evident & i dont know how much of an impact its made on our specific situation, but i know for sure they haven't been a net positive to us. Perhaps these are 2 simple things we can change that help improve our team in the process

[Thorner]

43 minutes ago, In The Buff said:

As for Karmanos in Pittsburgh, look at it a different way:

What benefit can there be to our team, for our Assistant GM not being in Buffalo? 

Now what benefit could there be if he were in Buffalo? See what is easier? Their offices could be in eye sight to one another, randomly bouncing ideas & questions at each other thruout the day. Even assuring both are on the same page etc.

After missing the playoffs for so many years, having 1 of your more seasoned hockey guys work in the building, just seems to make more sense than him being off site.

Just like how maybe its not ideal to have the youngest hockey team in the league, year in & year out. These are anomalies that are self evident & i dont know how much of an impact its made on our specific situation, but i know for sure they haven't been a net positive to us. Perhaps these are 2 simple things we can change that help improve our team in the process

We only want associate to the GMs who want to be here 

[DarthEbriate]

3 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

they're "thought partners."

that's the new hip lexicon, anyway.

Like Kylo and Rey, but without the success in fighting evil henchmen. Got it.  

[DarthEbriate]

2 hours ago, Thorner said:

They HAVE to salvage this with Dahlin. Might be the only player on the roster I still have a legit connection to. The lottery win in 2018 literally represents maybe the only truly joyous Sabres moment in a decade. Cannot afford to let him slip by 

If Adams gets a 2nd line winger, middle 1st round prospect, late 1st round pick, and 2nd for R2-D6 and only has Power to show from drafting in the top 2 four times in the last 10 years, and keeps any job within the organization, then I figure I can drop the DarthEbriate persona and follow the Kraken or something more productive with my time. 

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

If Adams gets a 2nd line winger, middle 1st round prospect, late 1st round pick, and 2nd for R2-D6 and only has Power to show from drafting in the top 2 four times in the last 10 years, and keeps any job within the organization, then I figure I can drop the DarthEbriate persona and follow the Kraken or something more productive with my time. 

An hour of wolves, and shattered shields when the age of swords comes crashing down. But it is not this day. 

[Palm Trees And Taxes]

5 hours ago, LTS said:

I've been working in highly functioning organizations with remote workers for years now. A person's ability to communicate and perform their job is not a function of where they are located. It's a function of themselves.

I don't agree. The more I think about it the more I think someone heard Dahlin and Adams were meeting and Dahlin told him that losing is unacceptable and someone took out their jump to conclusions mat and decided it meant Dahlin was threatening to leave.

That said, the inherent threat is there.  Dahlin clarifying that he never used the word leave is enough proof of all of it. His remarks are spot on. The team sucks, he hates it. It needs to get better.  But he has not threatened to leave.

Working remotely is fine for a LOT of jobs. The guy who runs my entire organization is not located in a market where we do business. Most of the people in his leadership team are not. We've been highly successful.

What is the advantage of being there, in market, day after day?  And keep in mind, it doesn't mean he's never in Buffalo (all of a 3 hour drive away).

I will agree with you as I work 100 percent remote myself and I do agree companies can communicate and work this way for sure. Having said this though in terms of the NHL I would much prefer that my GM and assistant GM are close to the organization and players. Sends a message to the players to be able to see them in person and be close to the team, this can also get better reads on their own players in terms of trading players on the rosters etc.

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

As you point out, the notion that one of your highest-ranking staff members in the organization resides in another city is ridiculous. It defies common sense. Doesn't the reticent billionaire owner recognize how abnormal this staffing situation is?  The owner has made a lot of befuddling/weird decisions. Allowing one of the top two or three staff people to work remotely from out of town is an absurdity at a grotesque level. What the hellll was the owner and sycophantic GM thinking when they approved of this unusual arrangement? I'm tired of the clownish manner in which this franchise is being managed. The owner needs to sell the franchise that he damaged so much. He ought to be ashamed of himself. The problem is that he lacks the self-awareness to recognize his culpability in this failed franchise. 

Remote work is common today.  Remote leadership can be a problem.  

Rochester is going great, nice mix of AHL vets and NHL prospects , the result speak for themselves.  Whoever found Leone deserved credit. Karmanos deserves credit too. 

It seems like Karmanos being directly with Adams for a few days a week would help Adams.  As pointed out, he doesn’t have any advisors, but he does want any according to LL.  

If I’m Terry I would allow the remote work when the workload permits it.   I would also want him rotating between Roch, Buf, and home when workload requires it.  I would enforce the later. 

Edited Saturday at 12:00 AM by Pimlach

[JohnC]

53 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Remote work is common today.  Remote leadership can be a problem.  

Rochester is going great, nice mix of AHL vets and NHL prospects , the result speak for themselves.  Whoever found Leone deserved credit. Karmanos deserved a credit too. 

It seems like Karmanos being directly with Adams got few days a week would help Adams.  As pointed out, he doesn’t have any advisors, he does want any according to LL.  

If I’m Terry I would allow the remote work when the workload permits it.   I would also want him rotating between Roch, Buf, and home when workload requires it.  I would enforce the later. 

I'm not disputing the fact that remote work is common. And that is a good thing for a variety of reasons. However, when you are in an upper leadership position in a faltering franchise, I would argue that it is an imperative to be regularly around both the Buffalo and Rochester franchises. As you point out, remote leadership can be a problem, especially when you are working for a failed franchise. 

If I had a choice between KA or Karmanos for the GM position, I would without any hesitation select Karmanos. However, if the condition of employment was to work remotely from Pittsburgh, I would say absolutely not. 

As far as being around in order to help Adams that in itself is an indictment of the current GM. Based on his half-decade performance he should be jettisoned.  The Sabres are a failed franchise because the operation is second-rate at best. There is no question in my mind that this clueless and stubborn owner is most responsible for destroying this franchise with his inexplicable decisions, many of them associated with his staffing decisions. I'm tired of him. 

Edited Friday at 11:40 PM by JohnC

[Archie Lee]

21 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

IWe have? I did not.

I most certainly frickin' doubt it.

Why do you think that? I can only speak to my experience in a variety of private industries - both profit and nonprofit. Having someone in the upper echelon of leadership who is not regularly on-site is an organizational deficit. Full stop.

It's all of a piece. And it's symptomatic of some more fundamental rot.

When you're at the top of an org chart, you need legitimate thought-partners around you. Who's Adams got in Buffalo? Jakubowski and Forton.

Pfffffff. The former has been with the Sabres for 20 years and, I think, is more of a capologist than anything. Forton's  hockey resume does not inspire much confidence. He kicked around as an assistant coach in the lower tiers of D-1 hockey for 20 years before falling into a job with the Sabres.

And not for nothing: Jakubowski and Forton are both Buffalo/WNY guys. Local guys. 

Pegula's not hiring the best and brightest. He's casting about in a local bargain bin for the people to lead the franchise.

Come to think of it: The same thoughts apply equally to Adams.

Dahlin be like: "Oh sh1t. I'm the next Jeff Skinner?"

I don't mean to say it would be wrong to have your associate and assistant GM's residing in Buffalo and in the office daily.  It might even be preferrable.  It also is good to cast a wide net and find the best people.  But, I thought I would look at other teams and their assistant GMs.  Started at the top of the NHL standings with the Jets. Didn't need to go further. They have two assistant GMs.

1.) Craig Heisinger, Sr. Vice President & Director, Hockey Ops / Assistant General Manager.  He is the GM of the Moose.  He's from Manitoba. From his bio on the Jets website: "Heisinger began his tenure with the Manitoba Moose as the team’s Equipment Manager."

2.) Larry Simmons, Vice President & Assistant General Manager.  From his bio:  "He and his wife, Cheryl, reside in Atlanta..."

Not too much worry on this stuff from Jet fans, would be my guess. Being concerned about such things is, in my view, taking our eyes off the ball.  Adams is a demonstrably awful GM.  That's what needs to change.

Edited Saturday at 02:09 PM by Archie Lee

[Thorner]

7 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I don't mean to say it would be wrong to have your associate and assistant GM's residing in Buffalo and in the office daily.  It might even be preferrable.  It also is good to cast a wide net and find the best people.  But, I thought I would look at other teams and there assistant GMs.  Started at the top of the NHL standings with the Jets. Didn't need to go further. They have two assistant GMs.

1.) Craig Heisinger, Sr. Vice President & Director, Hockey Ops / Assistant General Manager.  He is the GM of the Moose.  He's from Manitoba. From his bio on the Jets website: "Heisinger began his tenure with the Manitoba Moose as the team’s Equipment Manager."

2.) Larry Simmons, Vice President & Assistant General Manager.  From his bio:  "He and his wife, Cheryl, reside in Atlanta..."

Not too much worry on this stuff from Jet fans, would be my guess. Being concerned about such things is, in my view, taking our eyes off the ball.  Adams is a demonstrably awful GM.  That's what needs to change.

I agree - but Cheveldayoff is quite an experienced GM and Adams a rube - the Sabres’ failure to see contextual differences and adjust accordingly would in this case be relevant in so far as it would support the idea they’d be less likely to identify Adams’ firing as necessary, at all, based on their shocking dearth of self awareness 

Edited Friday at 11:46 PM by Thorner

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Being concerned about such things is, in my view, taking our eyes off the ball.  Adams is a demonstrably awful GM.  That's what needs to change.

The real source of the problem is not the ill-equipped person who is the GM. It is the silent and perplexing owner who selected him to be the GM and then  kept him on the job for five years. Sometimes a person makes an out of the box hire that surprisingly works out well. This is certainly not the case here. KA has half a decade of work product to evaluate. The owner has so far decided to ride it out with him. The blame finger should be pointed at the owner. 

[Archie Lee]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

The real source of the problem is not the ill-equipped person who is the GM. It is the silent and perplexing owner who selected him to be the GM and then  kept him on the job for five years. Sometimes a person makes an out of the box hire that surprisingly works out well. This is certainly not the case here. KA has half a decade of work product to evaluate. The owner has so far decided to ride it out with him. The blame finger should be pointed at the owner. 

No disagreement.  We are in no position to put pressure on the NHL to change the owner though.   

[Archie Lee]

4 minutes ago, Thorner said:

I agree - but Cheveldayoff is quite an experienced GM and Adams a rube - the Sabres’ failure to see contextual differences and adjust accordingly would in this case be relevant in so far as it would support the idea they’d be less likely to identify Adams’ firing as necessary, at all, based on their shocking dearth of self awareness 

Right.  There should be a POHO, or a Senior Advisor or two, or just a better GM. Having Karmanos in the next office isn't going to make a big difference.