How much of this is on the coach?

[Goldseatsaud]

Ruff isn’t the answer here. It’s time Lindy to call it

[Carmel Corn]

21 minutes ago, Goldseatsaud said:

Ruff isn’t the answer here. It’s time Lindy to call it

I don't know what's worse....Lindy or Seth.  Pick your poison because those are the only choices Pegula will allow.

[Pimlach]

On 3/8/2025 at 1:19 PM, Ctaeth said:

I'm not going to dump on lindy because all of the coaches that have tried with this group have failed.  At some point, you have to say that this is on the players because they aren't talented enough, they are mentally fragile, they are injury prone, and the team isn't deep enough to sustain injuries to their best players.  Obviously, by saying "it is the players", this also implicates the gm since he assembled the group of players (and coach fwiw).

That and he was stuck with the same group of assistant coaches.  

Undoubtedly, he deserves some of the blame as the skipper of this sinking ship.  But I'm not willing to put a large portion of the blame on him

This group has had two coaches, Granato and Lindy.  Lindy has been worse thus far.  The players aren’t listening to him.  

Edited 21 hours ago by Pimlach

[bunomatic]

Lindy should have the ability to hire and fire his assts. even though he hasn’t been any better. He should have insisted on his own coaching staff coming in. Everything this team does is unorthodox. Emulate the winning organizations. Its simple really.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

None.

I will trot out the estimed @Eleven's mantra down the ages of the past 15 years - it's the roster.

[wingnut]

If we're focusing on head coach, I wonder how many NHL HCs would be ok with 20 yr old Kulich as being the "1C" for their team? Seems like the current roster would be a big 'no' for most.

And I like what Kulich has shown. But 1C at 20 yrs old seems insane to me. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[Ctaeth]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

This group has had two coaches, Granato and Lindy.  Lindy has 0 worse thus far.  The playets aren’t listening to him.  

I was counting krueger as well.  You can debate whether that is fine or not.  But quite honestly, it is beside the point I was trying to make.  This group of players has been unsuccessful for years.  Lindy inherited an unsuccessful group of players.  And wasn't able to pick his own assistant coaches to help get his message through to the players. 

[DarthEbriate]

Short answer: Overall, not much -- it's on Darth Pegulas, the EEE mandate, and unqualified GM yes-man-Sheevyn and the culture and roster they've assembled. By Ruff's admission he didn't want the job, but took it anyway. He didn't act on instinct and that is his fault.

But...

The long answer: This season is Ruff's mess. 

If he is buddies with Pegula as has been posted on this board and reported elsewhere, then they had conversations before his hire. And my supposition: then they also had conversations before Granato's firing. This makes him essentially the de facto POHO upon hire as he has the most connections and tenure around the league and was Adams' mentor/coach years ago. His uncontested hiring was the beginning of this season's timeline (except HCDG's firing). 

Because Ruff was the first domino and had the GM's and owner's direct ear, he was complicit and part of the design of every event this offseason and season. And he will be so again once he officially is in the front office at the end of next season (barring retirement).

----

Instead, he should have said, "I'll come on as POHO and here is what we'll do: Adams remains GM/Pegula's sounding board, but I make the hockey decisions. I will make the decision on the Head Coach and new coaching staff, and I will provide the shopping list for players for the GM to execute. And to hell with EEE; if you want to say it's 'Playoffs or bust' then we spend to the cap in every way, shape, and form. We are getting a top-flight coaching staff. It is the Ruff Solo way or the highway, and if you, Darth Pegulas say no to any of these conditions, then your tauntaun will freeze before the first marker, I'll enjoy my retirement, and I'll see you in hell." Then, go hire McClellan or Gallant or whomever and put together the best staff you can find.

[pi2000]

Whatever Lindy is preaching isn't resonating with this group.

The only guys performing well are the veteran players, Zucker, McLeod, Greenway, etc..   

The young core hasn't taken that next step, why?   Who the ***** knows, that's Kevyn's job to figure out.   

If he believes Lindy isn't the right guy then he should move on, but it feels like the tail is wagging the dog in this case...  Lindy dictating to Kevyn what he should do with the roster... which probably doesn't sit well with guys like Karmanos.   

It wouldn't surprise me if Karmanos said "***** it" and left for greener pastures in the offseason.

[Thorner]

9 hours ago, wingnut said:

If we're focusing on head coach, I wonder how many NHL HCs would be ok with 20 yr old Kulich as being the "1C" for their team? Seems like the current roster would be a big 'no' for most.

And I like what Kulich has shown. But 1C at 20 yrs old seems insane to me. Wash, rinse, repeat.

And Ruff thinks Norris could be the 1C. So I guess we didn’t have one? Haha

[Cranky old man]

This year’s poor outcome is on Lindy. There is no way around it. It was not an unrealistic expectation that this team make the playoffs this year. Lindy should have been able to reach such a low threshold even with the all soft ice cream team. 

Edited yesterday at 03:45 AM by Cranky old man

[GASabresIUFAN]

No coach, as we have seen, gets a positive result from this terrible lineup.  Did Lindy fail to move the needle on this group? Sure, but Scotty Bowman couldn’t win with the defense Adams gave Lindy.  

I’m all for clearing the coaching staff and starting again for the 40th time, but until the roster is fixed, no coach is winning in Buffalo.  

 

[Archie Lee]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No coach, as we have seen, gets a positive result from this terrible lineup.  Did Lindy fail to move the needle on this group? Sure, but Scotty Bowman couldn’t win with the defense Adams gave Lindy.  

I’m all for clearing the coaching staff and starting again for the 40th time, but until the roster is fixed, no coach is winning in Buffalo.  

 

This isn’t quite true. I understand what you are getting at, but Granato did get a positive  result in his first two full seasons. We can revise history (I’m not accusing you of doing this) by ignoring that those teams far overachieved expectations, but the reality is that Granato oversaw back to back seasons where the team had a 20 point followed by a 17 point improvement.  The Sabres were expected to be at the very bottom of the NHL in 21-22 and to be nowhere close to the playoffs in 22-23 and they finished much higher in the standings than expected both years. Again, I’m not pounding the table for Granato, but the backslide last year was in no small part due to the putrid off-season Adams had (Erik Johnson and Clifton replacing Lyubushkin and Stillman; that’s it). And the backslide wasn’t huge. 

Last year, Granato “failed to move the needle”. What’s happening this year is so much worse than “failing to move the needle”. The Sabres are awful. We are moving closer to year two of Krueger level-bad, than to what we were in Granato’s full seasons. It’s not all on Ruff. Some of it is, I think, related to players simply knowing they are defeated. Our GM preached accountability, and then took none on his own shoulders. We are seeing the end result of two years of mismanagement and neglect. Ruff is part of the problem. He is not part of the solution (as a HC anyway). 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

This isn’t quite true. I understand what you are getting at, but Granato did get a positive  result in his first two full seasons. We can revise history (I’m not accusing you of doing this) by ignoring that those teams far overachieved expectations, but the reality is that Granato oversaw back to back seasons where the team had a 20 point followed by a 17 point improvement.  The Sabres were expected to be at the very bottom of the NHL in 21-22 and to be nowhere close to the playoffs in 22-23 and they finished much higher in the standings than expected both years. Again, I’m not pounding the table for Granato, but the backslide last year was in no small part due to the putrid off-season Adams had (Erik Johnson and Clifton replacing Lyubushkin and Stillman; that’s it). And the backslide wasn’t huge. 

Last year, Granato “failed to move the needle”. What’s happening this year is so much worse than “failing to move the needle”. The Sabres are awful. We are moving closer to year two of Krueger level-bad, than to what we were in Granato’s full seasons. It’s not all on Ruff. Some of it is, I think, related to players simply knowing they are defeated. Our GM preached accountability, and then took none on his own shoulders. We are seeing the end result of two years of mismanagement and neglect. Ruff is part of the problem. He is not part of the solution (as a HC anyway). 

Even with the improvements under Granato, the defense and goaltending were terrible and the team never got over the hump and made the playoffs.  Even in Granato’s best year, the team still had a negative differential despite finished 3rd in the NHL in goals scored.  In fact they allowed 300 goals that season.  The team’s offense has rebounded under Lindy this year going from 23rd to 12th overall in the NHL.  Unfortunately, GA has backslide worse from 11th best to 28th allowing 3.5 goals a game.  I remarked last season that the underlying stats such as HDCA were still terrible despite the improved GA and this season with UPL back to playing like he did in 22/23, the GA has increased significantly but the underlying terrible D stats remain about the same.

The terrible defense is on Adams and Adams alone.  He built the roster and he hired and kept Wilford as the D coach. Until someone fixes the defense, no HC is going to succeed in Buffalo.

 

[BuffalOhio]

I've been harping on Marty Wilford for years.  He's ruined our defense.  

 

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

Some of it is, I think, related to players simply knowing they are defeated. Our GM preached accountability, and then took none on his own shoulders.

Totally agree.

They cant harp on culture so much and players wanting to be here and be unaccountable to that variable. If culture matters so much you are acknowledging that the players, ESPECIALLY young players, ESPECIALLY young players in the year of our lord 2025 with social media running rampant, aren’t robots. Do you think they aren’t smart enough to understand and interpret what a true lack of expectation, and accountability from on high, looks like? And, heaven forbid, eventually even come to imbibe it through the reinforced, year after year, environment of low expectations?

have mercy

Edited yesterday at 04:14 PM by Thorner

[LTS]

The coaching is perhaps the biggest problem on this team, outside of the owner and GM.

Ruff is not the coach. He's a figurehead to train Appert on how to become the next HC.  The retained the assistants who had proven they are not capable of being assistants.

Nothing changed with Ruff coming in and taking over for Granato except the name on the door above Head Coach.

 

[Mango]

Somebody, somewhere posted something like "Lindy isn't the problem. He never lost the locker room because he never had it". I felt that one in my bones. 

I am not sure we have bad players as much as we have a bad roster. We have done a terrible job at shepherding in this young group into the league. Part of that is Adams part is on Granato. 

Lindy is a good elder statesman of sorts to get young kids into the league and up to league average. He isn't a bad coach. He isn't an amazing coach. He is just a fine coach.

Part of the problem is the way these kids were brought in, the entitlement they had to run the locker room at a young age. And I think (without having any actual knowledge) having Appert in the room is a detriment to the HC. Keeping a holdover from a soft staff when a real life NHL hockey coach subverts the HC. At some point the new guy will crack the whip and the kids will look to the other guy for some assurance. 

This roster needed to cut the umbilical chord. 

[dudacek]

29 minutes ago, Mango said:

Somebody, somewhere posted something like "Lindy isn't the problem. He never lost the locker room because he never had it". I felt that one in my bones. 

I am not sure we have bad players as much as we have a bad roster. We have done a terrible job at shepherding in this young group into the league. Part of that is Adams part is on Granato. 

Lindy is a good elder statesman of sorts to get young kids into the league and up to league average. He isn't a bad coach. He isn't an amazing coach. He is just a fine coach.

Part of the problem is the way these kids were brought in, the entitlement they had to run the locker room at a young age. And I think (without having any actual knowledge) having Appert in the room is a detriment to the HC. Keeping a holdover from a soft staff when a real life NHL hockey coach subverts the HC. At some point the new guy will crack the whip and the kids will look to the other guy for some assurance. 

This roster needed to cut the umbilical chord. 

I don’t necessarily disagree with most of this, Except - the way I read it at least - Lindy was brought in specifically to cut the umbilical cord and force the kids to grow up.

He’s failed to do that, and that’s on him.

It’s the “high-effort 4th-line grinders” who get their ice cut, not the bonus baby kids like Power and Cozens.

Lindy agreed to the coach staff. Lindy has kept running out lines and roles that look suspiciously like Granato’s. It’s Lindy employing tactics and deploying players who are self-destructing in ways Granato’s teams didn’t.

Maybe I was wrong, and he was always just a figurehead.

But if that’s the case, isn’t that on him too, for taking the job?

 

[HumanSlinky39]

My 2 cents:

A good chunk of it is the coach, but a whole helluva lot isn't. And that's not to say Lindy is a bad coach, he's just not the right coach for this bunch.

There is zero improvement, and in fact there's regression, across a huge majority of this roster. Whatever he's selling, they ain't buying. If you have a great coach, I'd say you keep him and fix the roster. Thing is, Lindy's track record since he was fired the first time is very spotty. Lindy is a good coach, he's not a great coach. There are fatal flaws on this roster, but I don't think Lindy is the answer behind the bench either...never did. And it isn't Seth *****' Appert either.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Even with the improvements under Granato, the defense and goaltending were terrible and the team never got over the hump and made the playoffs.  Even in Granato’s best year, the team still had a negative differential despite finished 3rd in the NHL in goals scored.  In fact they allowed 300 goals that season.  The team’s offense has rebounded under Lindy this year going from 23rd to 12th overall in the NHL.  Unfortunately, GA has backslide worse from 11th best to 28th allowing 3.5 goals a game.  I remarked last season that the underlying stats such as HDCA were still terrible despite the improved GA and this season with UPL back to playing like he did in 22/23, the GA has increased significantly but the underlying terrible D stats remain about the same.

The terrible defense is on Adams and Adams alone.  He built the roster and he hired and kept Wilford as the D coach. Until someone fixes the defense, no HC is going to succeed in Buffalo.

 

The simple truth is that Granato has outperformed Ruff as a coach with a lesser team. This team has regressed. What’s obvious is that the current coached is being tuned out by the resistant players. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

23 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The simple truth is that Granato has outperformed Ruff as a coach with a lesser team. This team has regressed. What’s obvious is that the current coached is being tuned out by the resistant players. 

It's was the basically the same team and guess what who cares.  Did Granato get them to the playoffs? No.  Was the defense good under Granato?  No.  Was offense any good outside the season when 5 guys had career years? No.

Again, the coaches don't make a difference unless they have the right players to coach.  The Sabres have only one blueliner who plays adequate to good defense and his name is Dahlin.  The rest are crap.  No coach succeeds with the steaming smelly pile of crap that is our D group.

Y'all are arguing over which lousy crappy coaching staff smelled worse.  IMHO fire them all and start again, I really don't care who coaches this team.  Until we have a properly constructed roster it really doesn't matter who "coaches" them.

To quote Bill Murray in Meatballs:  "It just doesn't matter!"

 

Edited 22 hours ago by GASabresIUFAN

[inkman]

So the current group of players is on their 3rd coaching regime and we are still blaming the coaches? 

[Pimlach]

On 3/9/2025 at 11:42 AM, wingnut said:

If we're focusing on head coach, I wonder how many NHL HCs would be ok with 20 yr old Kulich as being the "1C" for their team? Seems like the current roster would be a big 'no' for most.

And I like what Kulich has shown. But 1C at 20 yrs old seems insane to me. Wash, rinse, repeat.

They  were very weak at center.  Tage as a 1C center is debatable, his two way game against other teams top line is not very good, which is why Lindy moved him to wing.  Cozens was a below average 2C.  Krebs a below average 4C.   Only McLeod is the only one adequate in his role as 3C.  

The center spline is poor, despite al the draft picks spent on center.  

 

[LGR4GM]

They need to fire the entire coaching staff and start over.