Now What?

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think the writing is on the wall.

If Adams or (God willing) his replacement is serious about improving the team, Cozens is just the start.

Tuch and Dahlin are the core pieces that work. Actions show it won’t be Zucker, Greenway or Norris leaving. The Laffertys and Brysons don’t matter.

Multiple players from the group of Tuch, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, Kulich, Power, Samuelsson, Byram and Clifton will have to be moved out in order to create space for the new guys coming in.

Everybody is going to have guys they want to keep from that list, but you’ve got to give to get and you’ve got to create space for the incoming players. Those are the guys on the chopping block.

Never mind the cap, the simple roster math doesn’t work otherwise.

No mention of Tage either way?

[dudacek]

13 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

No mention of Tage either way?

Sorry, it should have said Tage and Dahlin are core pieces that work. I've edited.

Tuch works, but he is also one of the parts I could see leaving. 

He's one I personally want to keep, but he's also the oldest member of the core, a pending free agent, and someone who should be in demand around the league and fetch a good return. If you're serious about fixing things, you've got to offer him an extension and weigh your options in the wake of his response.

Edited 16 hours ago by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

25 minutes ago, HumanSlinky39 said:

The worst case scenario is they just run it back with only very minor tweaks to the roster like the past two seasons. I agree, that is unfortunately the most likely outcome. That will be just another wasted year because it's abundantly clear that Adams' plan is not working, but for whatever reason Terry seems to be married to it.

The signing of Greenway and Zucker pretty much assured the same roster. There's room and money for a piece or two or a trade to change people but overall I don't see many changes taking place. If you look over the free agents I don't see a game changer that would come here. 

[dudacek]

34 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

The signing of Greenway and Zucker pretty much assured the same roster. There's room and money for a piece or two or a trade to change people but overall I don't see many changes taking place. If you look over the free agents I don't see a game changer that would come here. 

So there's no way they move on from one or more of Tuch, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, Kulich, Power, Samuelsson, Byram and Clifton?

[Pimlach]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So there's no way they move on from one or more of Tuch, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, Kulich, Power, Samuelsson, Byram and Clifton?

They are all tradable, especially Quinn, Samuelsson, Byram and Clifton, as are Krebs and Bryson.   Even Power should be on the table but probably wont be. 

[HumanSlinky39]

56 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

The signing of Greenway and Zucker pretty much assured the same roster. There's room and money for a piece or two or a trade to change people but overall I don't see many changes taking place. If you look over the free agents I don't see a game changer that would come here. 

It's a really underwhelming list this year.

Marner & Rantinen (did he agree to a DAL extension?) are the big guys. Obviously, neither would want to play here. Ekblad probably wouldn't either and he just got popped for a 20 game suspension. Ehlers would be nice, but he'll sign a big deal with a contender. Boeser same. Chychrun is redundant. 

Other than those, you have a bunch of older guys nearing the end of their careers - Taveres, Brock Nelson, Giroux, Duchene, Marchand, Orlov, Nyquist.

Any vet reinforcements would probably have to be brought in via trade. We have the prospect/draft capital to make it happen, question is is KA willing to move "his guys" that he's spent years accumulating. I'm hopeful that the Cozens deal signals a new willingness to shake things up, but we'll see.

To me, the only "untouchables" should be TNT, Tuch, Dahlin and maybe Peterka. Anybody else they should be willing to package to improve the team. I don't think they'll do much, but I'll hold out hope that maybe the realization that they need to shake things up is setting in. 

I still have something of a problem with Adams being the one making those calls, but I don't think we have a choice. 

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

So there's no way they move on from one or more of Tuch, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, Kulich, Power, Samuelsson, Byram and Clifton?

I’d extend Tuch, Benson must be held onto because he’s literally the only analytically positive player with or without Dahlin on the ice, Peterka and Power are only in the break glass if incredible offer. 
 

Muel and Clifton are both available barring Muel reverting to form the last 18 games.

Quinn for Spence, make it happen. I still think Quinn could be a great player but he’s put a serious damper on that this season.

Kulich is only available for an upgrade and out west.

Byram, likely needs to be traded because he’ll ask for 8mil per and I have no interest in giving him that.

[dudacek]

40 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I’d extend Tuch, Benson must be held onto because he’s literally the only analytically positive player with or without Dahlin on the ice, Peterka and Power are only in the break glass if incredible offer. 
 

Muel and Clifton are both available barring Muel reverting to form the last 18 games.

Quinn for Spence, make it happen. I still think Quinn could be a great player but he’s put a serious damper on that this season.

Kulich is only available for an upgrade and out west.

Byram, likely needs to be traded because he’ll ask for 8mil per and I have no interest in giving him that.

So you’re going to fix this by trading 3 guys getting healthy scratched from a basement dweller, plus Bo Byram and spending maybe $10M in free agency?

With that, you’re going to add a top 6 forward and upgrade 4 starting D in Byram/Muel/Clifton/Joker?

Meanwhile, you’re still running back Power and Lukkonen in key roles while - I assume - playing Benson and Kulich in your top 9? And finding the backup goalie and 4th line in house or through minimum wage pickups?

Isnt this why we’re in 29th right now?

Edited 12 hours ago by dudacek

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

So you’re going to fix this by trading 3 guys getting healthy scratched from a basement dweller, plus Bo Byram and spending maybe $10M in free agency?

With that, you’re going to add a top 6 forward and upgrade 4 starting D in Byram/Muel/Clifton/Joker?

Meanwhile, you’re still running back Power and Lukkonen in key roles while - I assume - playing Benson and Kulich in your top 9? And finding the backup goalie and 4th line in house or minus wage pickups?

Isnt hanging on to the core why we’re in 29th right now?

But at least we won’t get embarrassed by any player we ship out. As long as we avoid that, I can take another few years of missing 

[dudacek]

14 minutes ago, Thorner said:

But at least we won’t get embarrassed by any player we ship out. As long as we avoid that, I can take another few years of missing 

The more I think about it, if you want real change, the most logical guys to move are the most hurtful: Peterka and Power.

The only way you’re bringing in pieces of significance is by moving out pieces of value.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

So there's no way they move on from one or more of Tuch, Peterka, Quinn, Benson, Kulich, Power, Samuelsson, Byram and Clifton?

They might, but I'm not sure I see Adams making those moves without creating new holes. He seems to believe too strongly in his guys, his picks. 

So Samuelson might go but what's his value? I'm not sure there's a market for him at his cost. Tuch? Sure, easy to trade but how would that make us better? Peterka is tradeable for sure but again, what's the return and then who is your top 6 scorer to replace him? Clifton's a UFA next year so he will become next year's Jokiharju. 

I just don't see anything to indicate Adams will move away from his philosophy which is shown in the type of players he drafts. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, HumanSlinky39 said:

It's a really underwhelming list this year.

Marner & Rantinen (did he agree to a DAL extension?) are the big guys. Obviously, neither would want to play here. Ekblad probably wouldn't either and he just got popped for a 20 game suspension. Ehlers would be nice, but he'll sign a big deal with a contender. Boeser same. Chychrun is redundant. 

Other than those, you have a bunch of older guys nearing the end of their careers - Taveres, Brock Nelson, Giroux, Duchene, Marchand, Orlov, Nyquist.

Any vet reinforcements would probably have to be brought in via trade. We have the prospect/draft capital to make it happen, question is is KA willing to move "his guys" that he's spent years accumulating. I'm hopeful that the Cozens deal signals a new willingness to shake things up, but we'll see.

To me, the only "untouchables" should be TNT, Tuch, Dahlin and maybe Peterka. Anybody else they should be willing to package to improve the team. I don't think they'll do much, but I'll hold out hope that maybe the realization that they need to shake things up is setting in. 

I still have something of a problem with Adams being the one making those calls, but I don't think we have a choice. 

Bennett's the only difference maker that's out there to my mind, but I doubt he'd even take a Buffalo phone call and we aren't where we need to be for him to make that difference. Marner is just going to be too costly imo. Not worth it. I could see him sign and float.

I personally don't see anybody on a losing roster as untouchable but the offers would have to be huge for Dahlin or Thompson. I want Tuch and Peterka but if Peterka's contract ask is ridiculous he's also a trade chip that could get us a different type of player. 

I personally want to move one of Power or Byram and someone change the make up of the team by bringing in veteran defenders and toughness. A different focus and a better mix. I agree, I doubt Adams is the guy for the job. 

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

They might, but I'm not sure I see Adams making those moves without creating new holes. He seems to believe too strongly in his guys, his picks. . 

Probably just wishful think from me, because ^^^ has certainly been his MO.

But the Cozens trade says maybe that’s changing: he dumped one of his long-term guys and he did it for a guy of similar stature but a different game, with an eye on creating a better fit.

I don’t want people to get caught up on the names, but is it possible to leverage the talent we all know is there for better roster fits? Can we trade a Bo Byram type for a Boone Jenner type? A Konsta Helenius type for a Brett Pesce type? Or a JJ Peterka type for a Sam Bennett type?

I took the trade, his presser and even today’s Dahlin shitstorm as a general acknowledgement that this core isn’t working and more significant surgery is going to be needed.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Probably just wishful think from me, because ^^^ has certainly been his MO.

But the Cozens trade says maybe that’s changing: he dumped one of his long-term guys and he did it for a guy of similar stature but a different game, with an eye on creating a better fit.

I don’t want people to get caught up on the names, but is it possible to leverage the talent we all know is there for better roster fits? Can we trade a Bo Byram type for a Boone Jenner type? A Konsta Helenius type for a Brett Pesce type? Or a JJ Peterka type for a Sam Bennett type?

I took the trade, his presser and even today’s Dahlin shitstorm as a general acknowledgement that this core isn’t working and more significant surgery is going to be needed.

We could just sign Sam, isn't he a ufa?

[Cityo'Rasmii]

51 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We could just sign Sam, isn't he a ufa?

one can dream

[Archie Lee]

As crazy as this may seem, we can't sign a higher-priced UFA this off-season unless we trade a significant contract without taking one back in return. Just with pretty conservative contracts for our RFAs, we are right up against the cap with a full roster. Signing a truly big-ticket UFA, someone like Marner (won't happen), would mean moving out two contracts. 

I think change this off-season will come down to how well Adams manages to pulling off a couple of hockey trades.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

As crazy as this may seem, we can't sign a higher-priced UFA this off-season unless we trade a significant contract without taking one back in return. Just with pretty conservative contracts for our RFAs, we are right up against the cap with a full roster. Signing a truly big-ticket UFA, someone like Marner (won't happen), would mean moving out two contracts. 

I think change this off-season will come down to how well Adams manages to pulling off a couple of hockey trades.

Samuelsson needs to go. Byram needs to go. Quinn, I'd give him a bridge and it won't be high. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Probably just wishful think from me, because ^^^ has certainly been his MO.

But the Cozens trade says maybe that’s changing: he dumped one of his long-term guys and he did it for a guy of similar stature but a different game, with an eye on creating a better fit.

You sure he didn't do it just because they wanted a guy named Josh?

[SabreFinn]

8 hours ago, Thorner said:

But at least we won’t get embarrassed by any player we ship out. As long as we avoid that, I can take another few years of missing 

We can trade them to Canadian teams, they don't win cups there. Send them to Leafs. Lol.

[thewookie1]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

So you’re going to fix this by trading 3 guys getting healthy scratched from a basement dweller, plus Bo Byram and spending maybe $10M in free agency?

With that, you’re going to add a top 6 forward and upgrade 4 starting D in Byram/Muel/Clifton/Joker?

Meanwhile, you’re still running back Power and Lukkonen in key roles while - I assume - playing Benson and Kulich in your top 9? And finding the backup goalie and 4th line in house or through minimum wage pickups?

Isnt this why we’re in 29th right now?

I just don't see us winning or even breaking even with any trade involving Power and frankly Peterka being traded garbage scares me immensely since he's one of our few goal scorers as it is.

Also yes in regards to Benson and Kulich(most likely) both have low cap hits with high ceilings.   

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

The more I think about it, if you want real change, the most logical guys to move are the most hurtful: Peterka and Power.

The only way you’re bringing in pieces of significance is by moving out pieces of value.

Sure, that true but any trade involving them puts us in the negative or breaking even for Top 6F/Top 4D numbers.

 

Frankly at this point I have no clue what to do, the only valuable assets team seem to have interest in is our few solid to great NHLers and only our Top prospects while asking through the nose. Add to that NMC and NTCs and the market dries up rather quickly.

Who exactly are you trading Power for? Petersson is a headcase that seems to lack any internal fire; the guy sleep walked through the 4 Nations Tourney. Perhaps a swap with a prospect for Charlie McAvoy if Boston wants to tear it all down? 

The cap rise only hurts us because it won't bind teams to being more willing to part with players with value.