Deadline Scorecard for Adams!

[GASabresIUFAN]

Everyone here knows my dislike of Adams, but this has been an overall positive deadline.

1) I like that we re-signed both Greenway and Zucker.  I thought Greenway would be about 3.5 and Zucker about 5 (or 8.5 total).  Adams came in at 8.75.  Zucker has been a great addition to this team and Greenway, when healthy, add elements of physical play and penalty killing that this team sorely lacks.  Much better to keep these two players than adding two more useless 2nd rd picks.

2) The Big Move:  Cozens, Gilbert and a 2nd for Norris and a D Bernard-Docker.  Norris is the best player in this deal and Docker gives us a 24 year old former 1st rd pick who is trying to establish himself in the NHL and is an RFA.  Norris in now the highest paid Sabres forward and has an long injury history.  However, when healthy he is a very skilled goal scorer, he's excellent in the FO circle, and has recently returned to the lineup.  At 53 games this season, if he plays the Sabres final 21 games, he'll play the most he's ever played in the NHL at 74 games

3) Kubel for Brannstrom.  As I said previously, I like this deal. This 25 year old still has the potential to be an everyday depth NHLer and he'll be a major help to the Amerks playoff run.

4) Joki for ....... Has this happened?  If it has, I don't care what the return is.  He should have never been re-signed.  Good luck Joki.  

Overall, I think Adams did pretty well.  He kept two key vets, brought in a talented center, helped Rochester this season and maybe Buffalo next and moved some dead weight off the roster.  He didn't need to move any of the RFAs or Power and has another shot at fixing the D and finding a playmaker in the off-season.  My grade is a B-, as I didn't like the 2nd moved in the Cozens deal.  

Edited Friday at 10:35 PM by GASabresIUFAN

[PerreaultForever]

I don't like any of it. 

[Doohicksie]

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

4) Joki for .......

If it involves Mitts I'll die laughing.

[DarthEbriate]

No trade (or draft selection) can be judged the day of. We won't know the extent of it all for a couple of years at the earliest, but I posted this deep within the Cozens thread and it still holds true for myself after the Jokiharju trade:

3 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Because in a vacuum, I'm happy with what he's done in the last 72 hours. Greenway and Zucker for 2 more years with a slight overpay on one and a slight underpay on the other. If Greenway is healthy, this gets the "core" and Power two more years into their prime with real veterans to guide them.

Adding a 2C (Norris) while removing a middle 6 winger (Cozens). This is good. And it hopefully means McLeod gets more all-around minutes instead of getting stuck on the 4th line.

Removing Gilbert is a minor problem, but he's a 7/8, no biggie. And bringing in a defensive-first D-man RHD to balance out one of the pairs. That's a net positive.

But still Adams shouldn't be in this gig for all the years of ineptitude before it (and likely to follow).

Getting Greenway and Zucker for combined $8.75M was cheaper today than in the summer (unless they both crashed and burned in the playoffs are being traded).

Moving out Cozens' chase-the-puck defense was important.

Moving out Jokiharju was necessary because he didn't have a role; unfortunately, I don't know that Bernard-Docker will fill that role, either.

I think the team is improved until Norris' next shoulder surgery.

[Weave]

The entire day will be defined by the health of Norris’ shoulder.  Until we have some assurance that the issue is behind him, the whole day is a crap shoot.

[LGR4GM]

C

He hasn't done enough

[Doohicksie]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

C

He hasn't done enough

I don't want him doing any more.  Let the next GM fix the roster this summer.

[GASabresIUFAN]

10 minutes ago, Weave said:

The entire day will be defined by the health of Norris’ shoulder.  Until we have some assurance that the issue is behind him, the whole day is a crap shoot.

That’s fair.  He is back in the lineup and had a goal and assist against Chi on the 5th.

[DarthEbriate]

2 minutes ago, Doohicksie said:

I don't want him doing any more.  Let the next GM fix the roster this summer.

What, you don't want to wait for Power to reach age 26 and beyond before deciding on the GM's fate? 😇

[triumph_communes]

B. Didn’t gut the team. Resigned the right guys instead of dragging that into the summer or dealing them for damn picks. Let go of the right guys. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

C

He hasn't done enough

He hasn’t, but do you really trust him to make good deals for valuable assets like JJP or Byram?

Also who was going to trade us a stay at home D or playmaker at the deadline?  

[Demoted]

F, he hasn't done anything that equals wins.

[Ctaeth]

B if Norris stays healthy.  I like it.

[The Jokeman]

I was vocal on my wanting Cozens moved. If Norris can stay healthy I think he a far better player than Cozens so I don't hate the move. He can be a good 2 way Center and does know how to light the lamp. He could be the #2 C we need but he's gotta stay healthy which he hasn't shown an ability yet. The other players in this move don't make me really happy or upset over. 

Moving Joker was a solid move as a $3 million bottom 2 Dman a bit of over spend. Yet not sure we have his replacement on the roster unless the intent is for JBD to play there. 

The guy traded to play in Rochester is another who cares move.

 

I'll give Adams a B- as he did move guys that wanted moved. He may have gotten a #2 C we need yet not sure toss in it was an inter division trade which risky.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Everyone here knows my dislike of Adams, but this has been an overall positive deadline.

1) I like that we re-signed both Greenway and Zucker.  I thought Greenway would be about 3.5 and Zucker about 5 (or 8.5 total).  Adams came in at 8.75.  Zucker has been a great addition to this team and Greenway, when healthy, add elements of physical play and penalty killing that this team sorely lacks.  Much better to keep these two players than adding two more useless 2nd rd picks.

2) The Big Move:  Cozens, Gilbert and a 2nd for Norris and a D Bernard-Docker.  Norris is the best player in this deal and Docker gives us a 24 year old former 1st rd pick who is trying to establish himself in the NHL and is an RFA.  Norris in now the highest paid Sabres forward and has an long injury history.  However, when healthy he is a very skilled goal scorer, he's excellent in the FO circle, and has recently returned to the lineup.  At 53 games this season, if he plays the Sabres final 21 games, he'll play the most he's ever played in the NHL at 74 games

3) Kubel for Brannstrom.  As I said previously, I like this deal. This 25 year old still has the potential to be an everyday depth NHLer and he'll be a major help to the Amerks playoff run.

4) Joki for ....... Has this happened?  If it has, I don't care what the return is.  He should have never been re-signed.  Good luck Joki.  

Overall, I think Adams did pretty well.  He kept two key vets, brought in a talented center, helped Rochester this season and maybe Buffalo next and moved some dead weight off the roster.  He didn't need to move any of the RFAs or Power and has another shot at fixing the D and finding a playmaker in the off-season.  My grade is a B-, as I didn't like the 2nd moved in the Cozens deal.  

Coming into the deadline I though the one single move that would make this team better more than anything else would be to get Cozens off the team in exchange for anything useful. Mission accomplished.  It might not look the next 3 games with the level of competition coming up, but this trade is going to be better for the team.

1.) Greenway and Zucker I'm just slightly positive on. If they were back great, if not oh well. I guess I should say I'm happier about Zucker than Greenway.

2.)  Cozens out, Norris in. The other parts no big deal. This move I like a lot  Just getting Cozens out gets an A+ from me.

3.) Kubel for Brannstrong...no idea, don't think it matters much.

4.) Jokiharju out for a 4th, again, doesn't matter much.

Finally moving on from Cozens make the day a bit win for me, not much else is a concern besides that.

 

Edited Friday at 11:59 PM by mjd1001

[dudacek]

The best thing I can say about Zucker and Greenway is that they are useful if overpaid vets who can contribute middle-six minutes. Probably better they did this than casting around the free agent market for replacements in July and overpaying more, or, worse, missing altogether.

 

Bernard-docker in, Jokiharju out is…interesting?

Jokiharju wore out his welcome here 2 years ago and was horribly miscast in this year’s lineup. But he is a better NHL defenceman than he generally gets credit for, and will probably do fine as the puckmover on a good team’s 3rd pair.

I know little about Bernard-Docker, except that he’s an RFA and it won’t cost much to keep him. Similar age, size and draft pedigree - I guess the hope is he will be a bit steadier and defensively sound than Joki and a better fit roster-wise?

 

The key thing is obviously Norris for Cozens, who are very similar on paper.

Cozens at 2C was the team’s weakest link this year, IMO: a failure at a key role. The question becomes will Norris be any different? He’s slightly smaller and slightly faster (well, NHL edge has him as one of the league’s fastest players) and hits a similar amount. He’s a better finisher and a worse set-up guy. He’s produced more offence on a per-82, but is much less durable.

Stylistically though, they are much different.

One thing notably different in his profile is how he’s had better success defensively than Dylan in harder minutes. Whereas Cozens likes to carry the puck and wants it on his stick as much as possible, Norris is about fewer touches and quicker decisions. I hope this is good news as poor puck decisions were Cozens biggest issue.

Will his more opportunistic, more patient game prove a better fit with some of Buffalo’s wingers? He’s a finisher, not a set-up guy, but the Sabres best playmakers seem to come from the back and their wingers can move the puck pretty well. So maybe his game works better than a more traditional centre/distributor with this mix?

He’s also a good faceoff man who produces on the power play and kills penalties - 3 things we couldn’t really say about Cozens.

2C had become the most important fix for the franchise so I am glad Adams recognized it and moved to correct it, even if I’m not sure that Norris is the right move, or if he can stay healthy.

And I am also sure that a piece of Adams core needed to be sacrificed. I think he sold low on Cozens, but that stock could still drop lower and the same could be said for the other candidates for trade.

And the Senators may have sold low as well (a 30-goal centre for the player Cozens was this year is a steal) so there’s that.

Bottom line: something needed to break. As far as I’m concerned Adams has forfeited the right to fix this, but if it’s going to continue to be his job, today was better than doing nothing at all.

Edited Saturday at 12:15 AM by dudacek

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Doohicksie said:

I don't want him doing any more.  Let the next GM fix the roster this summer.

It’s just not happening. He’s clearly coming back 

Word has it the press conference he just had made it even more clear 

[Thorner]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The best thing I can say about Zucker and Greenway is that they are useful if overpaid vets who can contribute middle-six minutes. Probably better they did this than casting around the free agent market for replacements in July and overpaying more, or, worse, missing altogether.

 

Bernard-docker in, Jokiharju out is…interesting?

Jokiharju wore out his welcome here 2 years ago and was horribly miscast in this year’s lineup. But he is a better NHL defenceman than he generally gets credit for, and will probably do fine as the puckmover on a good team’s 3rd pair.

I know little about Bernard-Docker, except that he’s an RFA and it won’t cost much to keep him. Similar age, size and draft pedigree - I guess the hope is he will be a bit steadier and defensively sound than Joki and a better fit roster-wise?

 

The key thing is obviously Norris for Cozens, who are very similar on paper.

Cozens at 2C was the team’s weakest link this year, IMO: a failure at a key role. The question becomes will Norris be any different? He’s slightly smaller and slightly faster (well, NHL edge has him as one of the league’s fastest players) and hits a similar amount. He’s a better finisher and a worse set-up guy. He’s produced more offence on a per-82, but is much less durable.

Stylistically though, they are much different.

One thing notably different in his profile is how he’s had better success defensively than Dylan in harder minutes. Whereas Cozens likes to carry the puck and wants it on his stick as much as possible, Norris is about fewer touches and quicker decisions. I hope this is good news as poor puck decisions were Cozens biggest issue.

Will his more opportunistic, more patient game prove a better fit with some of Buffalo’s wingers? He’s a finisher, not a set-up guy, but the Sabres best playmakers seem to come from the back and their wingers can move the puck pretty well. So maybe his game works better than a more traditional centre/distributor with this mix?

He’s also a good faceoff man who produces on the power play and kills penalties - 3 things we couldn’t really say about Cozens.

2C had become the most important fix for the franchise so I am glad Adams recognized it and moved to correct it, even if I’m not sure that Norris is the right move, or if he can stay healthy.

And I am also sure that a piece of Adams core needed to be sacrificed. I think he sold low on Cozens, but that stock could still drop lower and the same could be said for the other candidates for trade.

And the Senators may have sold low as well (a 30-goal centre for the player Cozens was this year is a steal) so there’s that.

Bottom line: something needed to break. As far as I’m concerned Adams has forfeited the right to fix this, but if it’s going to continue to be his job, today was better than doing nothing at all.

If Thompson is staying at W, Norris could be our 1C actually  

Though that’s mostly semantics I guess cause Thompson is still on that line. But in a manner of speaking our top 2 Cs could be Kulich and Norris

[Thorner]

People weren’t really expecting the version of Cozens we got this season right? But we were still saying we needed a top 6 addition. I don’t think this trade counts in any way as “addressing” the hole in that, if Norris is good, he’s getting back to the player we were hoping Dylan was, right? A good 2C. But then we still need help in the top 6. We’d be just back to square 1 with Norris, a redo on Cozens if you will 

I’d say the hope is this represents a re-stabilized top 6, in need of improvement, up from a collapsing unit

Edited Saturday at 12:36 AM by Thorner

[Weave]

4 minutes ago, Thorner said:

People weren’t really expecting the version of Cozens we got this season right? But we were still saying we needed a top 6 addition. I don’t think this trade counts in any way as “addressing” the hole in that, if Norris is good, he’s getting back to the player we were hoping Dylan was, right? A good 2C. But then we still need help in the top 6. We’d be just back to square 1 with Norris, a redo on Cozens if you will 

I’d say the hope is this represents a re-stabilized top 6, in need of improvement, up from a collapsing unit 

Seems about right.  Not a step forward as much as preventing a further backslide.

[Thorner]

Still, it’s a necessary type of move, Cozens/Norris. There’s no way imo there’s a perceptible gap between the two to the tune of me/one having any of the confidence necessary to claim one better than the other definitively - we’ll just have to see. But change for the sake of change make a lot of sense, here, if you are getting comparable ability back. What we had wasn’t working, try a new fit. Attempt something else that could lead to winning.

The Greenway and Zucker signings are just ok to me, maybe leaning slightly negative. As said I think I’d be leaning towards change re: anyone im not set on.

Those can bump overall score, from me, for this deadline from Adams to a respectable B-. 

Edited Saturday at 12:38 AM by Thorner

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

If Thompson is staying at W, Norris could be our 1C actually  

Out of the 4 players in the mix right now for next year’s top 3, only McLeod is a pass-first player.

Tage, Norris and Kulich are all finishers first.

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

People weren’t really expecting the version of Cozens we got this season right? But we were still saying we needed a top 6 addition. I don’t think this trade counts in any way as “addressing” the hole in that, if Norris is good, he’s getting back to the player we were hoping Dylan was, right? A good 2C. But then we still need help in the top 6. We’d be just back to square 1 with Norris, a redo on Cozens if you will 

Agreed .

As far as I’m concerned Tage has rebounded nicely. His D has improved and he is a beast offensively, a player other teams need to game plan for. Tuch is as good and as well-rounded as winger can get without being a star. I think that “3rd liner on a good team” stuff is ridiculous. He’s top 6 on any team and a 1st-liner on most.

After that, you’ve got JJ as a first-line offensive talent you can’t trust yet against “real” first lines and Norris who should be a 2nd-liner. If those guys are your 5th and 6th forwards, you’re happy, 3rd and 4th, you’re crossing your fingers.

Then you’ve got Zucker who played like a decent 2nd-liner this year, but is not likely to repeat it and a bunch of talented kids who looked to be in over their heads.

We’re in pretty much exactly the same spot in terms of how we perceived the forwards last September, just reverse what we thought we might get from Quinn and Zucker.

Edited Saturday at 01:42 AM by dudacek

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, Thorner said:

It’s just not happening. He’s clearly coming back 

Word has it the press conference he just had made it even more clear 

Why do you stomp on my dreams?

[Flashsabre]

He didn’t do anything stupid but a lot will depend on Norris’ health. 
Zucker worked out well, McLeod turned out well and I hope Norris works out in the same vein.

The D corps and the goaltending need to be the next focus.

Edited Saturday at 02:30 AM by Flashsabre

[Gatorman0519]

D. Didn’t do much but rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.