Sabres Trade Dylan Cozens/Dennis Gilbert and 2026 2nd Round Pick to Ottawa for Josh Norris and Bernard Docker

[GASabresIUFAN]

12 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Do the facts matter?

Jeff Skinner had played 579 games out of 622 possible at the time we acquired him. Averaging 76 per 82. He had missed 3 games total the 3 seasons previous, including playing two full 82 game seasons in those 3.

Norris had played 233 games out of 363 possible games… an average of 53 per 82. He had never played more than 66 in a season and only managed 60+ once. 

Comrie, again. 

the proof is in the pudding. Norris does not play the games 

- - - 

“well, it’s not the shoulder this time.”

Ok, well, “not the shoulder” has Norris on track to miss, just this season, 60% of the total amount of games skinner missed, his entire career, prior to being traded to buffalo 

Defense rests!  Well said.  

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Defense rests!  Well said.  

Had to bring facts back after whiffing on empty net goals 

[dudacek]

I can’t get on board an argument that says Josh Norris is going to miss games with injuries other than a shoulder because he missed a lot of games with a bad shoulder.

Come on man, there is no logic in that.

There is an obvious injury question with Norris: he’s had 3 surgeries on his shoulder.

There is no other injury history.

It’s like trading for Eichel: are we confident the neck can be fixed?

[dudacek]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Defense rests!  Well said.  

Now do Byram.

 

[Thorner]

Just now, dudacek said:

Now do Byram.

 

He stinks 

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I can’t get on board an argument that says Josh Norris is going to miss games with injuries other than a shoulder because he missed a lot of games with a bad shoulder.

Come on man, there is no logic in that.

There is an obvious injury question with Norris: he’s had 3 surgeries on his shoulder.

There is no other injury history.

It’s like trading for Eichel: are we confident the neck can be fixed?

There is other injury history. He’s hurt right now 

[Thorner]

Norris could get healthy and bounce back. Let me just put that out there. My point merely is that there’s a legitimate concern he’s going to struggle to play games because…he has struggled to play games. The Skinner comp wasn’t a good one, that’s all.

“Legitimate concern” is too generous, really. I would not think it more likely he plays a full season I would expect the opposite most likely 

Edited yesterday at 01:36 AM by Thorner

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Now do Byram.

 

We weren't discussing Byram, nor did I bring up his injury history.  

The Sabres acquired Norris and within 3 games of arrival he was already hurt and is likely to miss the remainder of the season.  This will mark his 5th straight season in a 5 year career in the NHL without playing a full season.  Sure it's possible that he now goes on to play 80+ for the next 7 years, but how likely is that given his history?

[PromoTheRobot]

Who gets injured more? Norris or Greenway?

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Who gets injured more? Norris or Greenway?

429 games played out of 526 possible 

67 games per 82 average for Greenway

Anecdotally I think players start to “feel” injury prone when they get to around that 10-15 lost per year mark on average 

Edited yesterday at 03:25 AM by Thorner

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Who gets injured more? Norris or Greenway?

idk what we inherited with Norris but he's had several major shoulder surgeries so I'd say he's potentially fragile. Why a big guy like Greenway keeps missing games is anybody's guess. 

[dudacek]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Why a big guy like Greenway keeps missing games is anybody's guess. 

Because 'little guys get hurt more, big guys are durable' is one of the more overrated tropes in hockey.

You twist your knee sharply at 20 miles an hour, take a slash to the wrist or a puck to the jaw, or hit the boards hard, being 180 or 220 is irrelevant.

The second most relevant issue to injuries is play style: how reckless are you with your body? The 3rd is responding to them in a way that maximizes recovery and minimizes any long-term effects: if/how you play through them, take time off, treatment, therapy, surgery etc. Genetics and age play a role in some types of injuries: do you break and tear easily? Heal quickly?

But the most relevant factor is luck.

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Because 'little guys get hurt more, big guys are durable' is one of the more overrated tropes in hockey.

But the most relevant factor is luck.

Luck (which in my experience... nevermind) and how you play.

If you play like Dahlin (fights in practice, after-whistle scrums, getting run by the opposition to get you off your game because you're essentially the only threat and you're known for retaliating) you are likely to miss some time. Brady Tkachuk has been remarkably durable, but the other Tkachuks get injuries -- they just burn bright when they're on the ice.

Meanwhile, if you play like Power (nothing after the whistle, not even a hug; no body checks or reckless out-of-position sliding/diving blocks; and generally avoiding contact; and no one needs to run you because -- why?) you're going to stay healthy. Pominville was an ironman until a freak skate blade caught his Achilles.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

Because 'little guys get hurt more, big guys are durable' is one of the more overrated tropes in hockey.

You twist your knee sharply at 20 miles an hour, take a slash to the wrist or a puck to the jaw, or hit the boards hard, being 180 or 220 is irrelevant.

The second most relevant issue to injuries is play style: how reckless are you with your body? The 3rd is responding to them in a way that maximizes recovery and minimizes any long-term effects: if/how you play through them, take time off, treatment, therapy, surgery etc. Genetics and age play a role in some types of injuries: do you break and tear easily? Heal quickly?

But the most relevant factor is luck.

I agree that how you play matters quite a bit. The way the rules have changed for example there's a lot of slim young kids who haven't learned to protect themselves along the wall. They turn and face the boards as if they are invulnerable and if they get a shot from behind (which might be a penalty but still happens) they are done. In the old days you wouldn't do that. You'd be coached from doing it. Lots of other things but I never said it was about size. It's more about strength and conditioning. It's just that the big guys are usually stronger and have more upper body strength. I have no idea why Greenway is out so much. I see nothing on ice that would be taking hits or doing something that would result in it. He just seems injury prone. 

As for Norris, he is quite light looking, as is Quinn. Looking at them they don't look like guys who have a lot of upper body strength. Benson's small but he has a broader looking build for his size despite his age so I think he will be okay even going into those tight areas. Norris I worry about. Not sure if those shoulders could handle playoff hockey at all should we ever get there. A guy like Bennett could end him game 1. 

[shrader]

I just saw the highlights. That was a beautiful assist from Cozens tonight. 

[Sabres73]

48 minutes ago, shrader said:

I just saw the highlights. That was a beautiful assist from Cozens tonight. 

Cozens was a -4 tonight.