Sabres Trade Dylan Cozens/Dennis Gilbert and 2026 2nd Round Pick to Ottawa for Josh Norris and Bernard Docker

[JohnC]

16 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

He seems to mesh well with Dahlin.  Maybe this frees up Byram to pair with Power to set up two solid defensive pairings (1A and 1B rather than 1 and 2), especially from the offensive side.

I envision Bernard-Docker as a third or fourth pairing defenseman. If that is the case, it's still a good addition. If Norris can enter next season fully healthy then the deal for Cozens is a good deal. Having depth on the blueline is a good situation to be in. Just maybe, a change of scenery for Docker might allow him to play at a higher level here than with his former team. 

[inkman]

12 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Don't talk to people.

My philosophy on life 

[mjd1001]

44 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

He seems to mesh well with Dahlin.  Maybe this frees up Byram to pair with Power to set up two solid defensive pairings (1A and 1B rather than 1 and 2), especially from the offensive side.

If that is the case, do it now and stick with it for the rest of the year.  Byram has not been good, and does not have good underlying numbers either except with anyone but Dahlin.

I like the idea, but I want to see Bryam out there with Power every shift for the rest of the year to see if it works.  This year they have only played 300 minutes together (about 1/3 of their total time) even strength. But so far, what I have seen is they seem 'clumsy' together. Numbers?  Their goal differential together is a -6. Fenwick is negative. Shots for vs allowed is negative. Expected goals for vs allowed is WAY negative. Scoring chances, high danger chances...all negative.

Most of the underlying metrics for both of them are worse when they are together than they are when they play with anyone else. (of course the 'everything else' numbers include time with Dahlin which bumps those ups)

Anway, if you are going to keep Byram, they should get a much larger sample size of him playing with someone, ANYONE else than Dahlin before they pay him a prety big extension.

Looking at the underlying numbers with Bryam since he has been here....something interesting I have found..and it might just be random or a result of a small sample size:  Bryams underlying metrics (like the ones listed above) are the best with Dahlin (or course) and the other guy they are decent with is Bryson.  His numbers are the worst with Samuelsson and not much better than Power.  In a very, VERY small sample size Byram seems to play better with quicker, puck moving guys (like himself) and worse with the bigger guys as his partner.

In limited minutes with Bryson and Byram together (132 minutes es), their Fenwick is only slightly negative, yet shots for vs against, goal differential and high danger goals are positive. Shots for and xgf/ga are only sightly negative. Again, maybe something to it, or maybe just random.

Edited Wednesday at 02:47 PM by mjd1001

[Drag0nDan]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Maybe but this is just Adams getting an RFA depth D man for his UFA depth D man. Adams likes that element of control for obvious reasons. 

The thing about the trade that boggled the minds of Ottawa fans was why Buffalo also gave up a 2nd round pick. They all seemed to feel this was a crazy win for them. 

Because Ottawa scouts have actually watched cozens play?  

[dudacek]

7 hours ago, tom webster said:

This take is from the same Canadian “insiders” who couldn’t understand how Buffalo gave up Savoie for McLoud. They have inflated opinion of guys that they were formerly high on.

Buffalo gave up a second in 2026 because they got the two better players. Time will bear that out. One thing for sure though, no one will now how good that second round pick will be for five years. 

 

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

 

So there is a bias toward Canadian players?  

The Toronto based Insiders didn’t watch Dylan Cozens play for Buffalo the past 2 years, but they did see him fill the net at the Worlds and the World Juniors, and the draft hype documentaries about the Workhorse from Whitehorse.

It’s not a Canadian bias so much as a bias toward what you've seen and how it made you feel, amplified by your neighbourhood echo chamber.

So basically no different than any other segment of society.

Edited Wednesday at 03:11 PM by dudacek

[tom webster]

18 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

The Toronto based Insiders didn’t watch Dylan Cozens play for Buffalo the past 2 years, but they did see him fill the net at the Worlds and the World Juniors, and the draft hype documentaries about the Workhorse from Whitehorse.

It’s not a Canadian bias so much as a bias toward what you've seen and how it made you feel, amplified by your neighbourhood echo chamber.

So basically no different than any other segment of society.

Yeah, I shouldn’t have worded it the way I did. I find it especially prevalent when an “insider” hyped a player previously. Rather than admit they are wrong, they blame it on organizational development. Just watch, if Cozens ends up being what we thought he was, they will blame it on Buffalo for rushing him.

[shrader]

19 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

The Toronto based Insiders didn’t watch Dylan Cozens play for Buffalo the past 2 years, but they did see him fill the net at the Worlds and the World Juniors, and the draft hype documentaries about the Workhorse from Whitehorse.

It’s not a Canadian bias so much as a bias toward what you've seen and how it made you feel, amplified by your neighbourhood echo chamber.

So basically no different than any other segment of society.

Right after the trade I kept hearing the same thought on NHL radio on XM over and over:  "It's a bad deal because the sabres need a culture change... just look at Dahlin being punched by two players and no one coming to his aid... Cozens brings toughness".  I don't know how people can say this over and over and fail to realize that Cozens was the one ignoring all those punches to Dahlin.  If these talking heads can't review what happened one day ago, they certainly can't view the entire picture over the last couple of years.

[Drag0nDan]

6 hours ago, tom webster said:

This take is from the same Canadian “insiders” who couldn’t understand how Buffalo gave up Savoie for McLoud. They have inflated opinion of guys that they were formerly high on.

Buffalo gave up a second in 2026 because they got the two better players. Time will bear that out. One thing for sure though, no one will now how good that second round pick will be for five years. 

Savoie was surpassed by benson at wing, and by Kulich at C.  He is already 21 and was going to be buried in the minors this season behind Kulich as a potential call-up.  Buffalo wanted a Center who can play today, and edmonton needed to shed an RFA who was about to get paid (bouchard's likely to get paid, and mcdavid is on his last year). 

I tend to agree on the 2nd point - norris is a better player when healthy, than cozens.  When healthy is already showing up to be an issue, but Cozens played 300+ games here.  He is not a PPG player that the media and ottawa fans want him to be, he doesn't make smart or quick decisions with the puck, he is a poor shooter, inconsistent passer, and doesn't seem to see the ice like a center should.  He wasn't a good enough creator distributor or finisher, and will always rely on linemates.  

I saw enough of gilbert to know he was just another stillman, or fitzgerald - he's 28, and he's a lefty.  There really was no plan for him other than back to rochester, and in my opinion he literally added nothing to the trade. Bernard-docker is 24 and a former first round pick who's already played more games than gilbert.  If you look at it like a 2nd round pick for him, its probably an overpay - but they do maintain some player control with a RHD.  

[tom webster]

4 minutes ago, shrader said:

Right after the trade I kept hearing the same thought on NHL radio on XM over and over:  "It's a bad deal because the sabres need a culture change... just look at Dahlin being punched by two players and no one coming to his aid... Cozens brings toughness".  I don't know how people can say this over and over and fail to realize that Cozens was the one ignoring all those punches to Dahlin.  If these talking heads can't review what happened one day ago, they certainly can't view the entire picture over the last couple of years.

I have this conversation over and over with friends. When I was younger, “insiders” were regarded with reverence, their word gospel. I long ago realized most of them are less informed than members of this board. Brawndo knows more about what’s going on than any of them. LGRM and others follow prospects more then anyone else I’ve come in contact with that wasn’t employed by a franchise.

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, tom webster said:

I have this conversation over and over with friends. When I was younger, “insiders” were regarded with reverence, their word gospel. I long ago realized most of them are less informed than members of this board. Brawndo knows more about what’s going on than any of them. LGRM and others follow prospects more then anyone else I’ve come in contact with that wasn’t employed by a franchise.

I'd agree.  There's too much hockey to claim they've watched enough of this guy to make a decision one way or another.  Regular stats won't show how ineffective he's been, or how ineffective he's made those who play with him.  Advanced stats will show some of that... but there's an advanced metric that will also say he's good... thats how the advanced metrics work.  

I feel like I've watched enough of this guy to know he's not that good, and committing him to your franchise for years isn't going to push the needle from irrelevance.  

[Doohickie]

59 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

Because Ottawa scouts have actually watched cozens play?  

Yeah, they think Cozens is actually good lol

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

My philosophy on life 

Most people have the same philosophy of life i.e. little desire to talk to you. 

[DarthEbriate]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

Yeah, they think Cozens is actually good lol

Cozens is who we thought he is.

He's been fine between Batherson (very solid 2W; 60 points three consecutive seasons if he gets 3 more points this year) and cagey veteran Perron. It does lead one to wonder -- what if Cozens skated between Zucker and Tuch all season, rather than always being with Quinn and another skater younger than himself?

 

But look at Cozens' big homecoming game. 1 secondary assist on a powerplay set play goal where Batherson made the beautiful touch pass and Muel left Tkachuk alone on the doorstep. Beyond that...  -2, 6/11 on faceoffs (6-5 is fine), 2 shots on goal, 2 hits, 1 giveaway, 1 takeaway in 17:18 TOI. Was he especially noticeable in the "Stick it to the Sabres" game? No, not really.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

This is and or was a good trade for BOTH sides. All 3 players traded needed that change of location. All 3 seem to be performing as advertised where both sides are happy. Cozens seems to be doing good and we are getting production out of the 2 that we got (Injury notwithstanding)

[Flashsabre]

The plan seems to be Power- Bernard Docker for the rest of the season to see if they work.  They have looked good together in a small sample size so far.

I think Byram will be moved in the offseason.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

The plan seems to be Power- Bernard Docker for the rest of the season to see if they work.  They have looked good together in a small sample size so far.

I think Byram will be moved in the offseason.

I think Byram and Samuelsson should be moved in the offseason. One should go for a RHD and the other can get us forward depth. 

[shrader]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

I have this conversation over and over with friends. When I was younger, “insiders” were regarded with reverence, their word gospel. I long ago realized most of them are less informed than members of this board. Brawndo knows more about what’s going on than any of them. LGRM and others follow prospects more then anyone else I’ve come in contact with that wasn’t employed by a franchise.

They serve a purpose. Someone has to pool all the resources across the league. Brawndo doesn’t have a clue what is going on in Calgary. 

[LGR4GM]

17 minutes ago, shrader said:

They serve a purpose. Someone has to pool all the resources across the league. Brawndo doesn’t have a clue what is going on in Calgary. 

He's also not paid to know that. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, tom webster said:

I have this conversation over and over with friends. When I was younger, “insiders” were regarded with reverence, their word gospel. I long ago realized most of them are less informed than members of this board. Brawndo knows more about what’s going on than any of them. LGRM and others follow prospects more then anyone else I’ve come in contact with that wasn’t employed by a franchise.

It is a lot easier to do these days. There's lots of shift by shift videos, highlights, scouting reports, and rankings that get put out. Plus we have access to decent data, although Pick224 going away sucks. I really loved being able to look at primary points per game and primary points per 60. Also had some xgf stuff there before the end. Sigh. In the end NHL teams have access to rinknet (I think that's it) where they can queue up a players shifts in a game for all their games. They even get statistical analysis stuff from it. I think in some cases, NHL teams have too much info and too many cooks trying to piece it all together in the end. 

Edited Wednesday at 05:18 PM by LGR4GM

[Thorner]

9 hours ago, tom webster said:

This take is from the same Canadian “insiders” who couldn’t understand how Buffalo gave up Savoie for McLoud. They have inflated opinion of guys that they were formerly high on.

Buffalo gave up a second in 2026 because they got the two better players. Time will bear that out. One thing for sure though, no one will now how good that second round pick will be for five years. 

The two better players? 

5 hours ago, PickaPecaPickles said:

Are the Sabres the only team in the league with 4 first round picks on their D (2 picked #1 overall)?

[One might also consider Samuelson a R1 pick too since he was taken at #32.]

No 

[inkman]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Most people have the same philosophy of life i.e. little desire to talk to you. 

If you could get the word out I’d appreciate it. I told our admin that my perfect work day is no one talks to me, looks at me, thinks about me, or mentions me.  I don’t want anyone to ever have a thought, whisper, breathe or conversation with me or about me. Leave me the ***** alone. 

[JohnC]

13 minutes ago, inkman said:

If you could get the word out I’d appreciate it. I told our admin that my perfect work day is no one talks to me, looks at me, thinks about me, or mentions me.  I don’t want anyone to ever have a thought, whisper, breathe or conversation with me or about me. Leave me the ***** alone. 

You are the type of guy who has a hard shell covering a soft heart. I put your name on a "love sight" so very soon you should get a lot of overtures from a number of over the hill hipsters. I thought you would appreciate the company. No need to thank me. I'm just that type of generous guy. Good luck in making a selection or two. There are plenty of raunchy choices to go through before making a selection. 

[shrader]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

He's also not paid to know that. 

And the same goes with the so called insiders.  They're essentially paid to be compilers.  They'll wind up with a better knowledge of certain teams based on where they are based, but they're not going to have a complete intimate knowledge of any of the teams.

[PerreaultForever]

12 hours ago, tom webster said:

This take is from the same Canadian “insiders” who couldn’t understand how Buffalo gave up Savoie for McLoud. They have inflated opinion of guys that they were formerly high on.

Buffalo gave up a second in 2026 because they got the two better players. Time will bear that out. One thing for sure though, no one will now how good that second round pick will be for five years. 

Umm, no, it was my take. So I have no idea what your Canadian insiders comment means but whatever. 

McLeod for Savoie was a good trade because they got a roster player for a prospect. Will Savoie be the better player down the road? Maybe but idc. I want more prospects moved to win now not less. 

On the Cozens deal you cannot look at it without factoring in durability. I already see next year's excuse. "If only we would have been healthy" "just bad luck". Wait for it. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

He's also not paid to know that. 

Don't ever underestimate @Brawndo. He's cagey and humble. He knows more than he is letting on.