Sabres Trade Dylan Cozens/Dennis Gilbert and 2026 2nd Round Pick to Ottawa for Josh Norris and Bernard Docker

[Archie Lee]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Doesn't matter if its a 'blip'. He showed no sign he was going to do it here. He wasn't a fit here.

5 years of bad defensive play.  2 coaches. apparently 2 different systems under Granato.  A career under 10% shooter.  No matter who you put him with, every single linemate did worse with him than without him.

He can score 45 goals for Ottawa and its not a bad trade. If he did that, its because he needed a change. He wasn't playing well here for years.

You did yeoman's work in making your point on Cozens. Frankly, you convinced me and I started seeing everything that you saw that was flawed in his game.  "It doesn't matter what he does the rest of his career because he was never going to be good in Buffalo", is a bizarre take though. You have acknowledged in many posts the many things that the Sabres did wrong in their development and deployment of Cozens. I'm not fooled by Cozens's 1st three games as a Senator.  Nothing would shock me, but it is obviously too early to draw conclusions. But if Cozens does turn it around in Ottawa and becomes something that resembles the player that he was projected to be, then it is absolutely the case that the same could have happened in Buffalo. Maybe not with Adams as GM and Ruff as head coach, but with the right coach, right system, right support.  That's just obvious. Of course, the Sabres have no obligation to change direction in management or coaching to serve a single player.  

[_Q_]

12 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

You did yeoman's work in making your point on Cozens. Frankly, you convinced me and I started seeing everything that you saw that was flawed in his game.  "It doesn't matter what he does the rest of his career because he was never going to be good in Buffalo", is a bizarre take though. You have acknowledged in many posts the many things that the Sabres did wrong in their development and deployment of Cozens. I'm not fooled by Cozens's 1st three games as a Senator.  Nothing would shock me, but it is obviously too early to draw conclusions. But if Cozens does turn it around in Ottawa and becomes something that resembles the player that he was projected to be, then it is absolutely the case that the same could have happened in Buffalo. Maybe not with Adams as GM and Ruff as head coach, but with the right coach, right system, right support.  That's just obvious. Of course, the Sabres have no obligation to change direction in management or coaching to serve a single player.  

Especially when other players have developed just fine.  Sometimes, it is simply the player.

[Archie Lee]

18 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

Especially when other players have developed just fine.  Sometimes, it is simply the player.

Who are the players on the Sabres who have developed just fine?  Dahlin and Peterka. 

We were ready to ship Thompson out before he broke through. 

Has Quinn developed just fine?  Are we all happy with Benson being on pace for 28 points? Is Power where we thought he would be?  Samuelsson?  Krebs?  Luukkonen?  I don't know.  It seems like our general track record is not great. 

 

 

[_Q_]

13 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Who are the players on the Sabres who have developed just fine?  Dahlin and Peterka. 

We were ready to ship Thompson out before he broke through. 

Has Quinn developed just fine?  Are we all happy with Benson being on pace for 28 points? Is Power where we thought he would be?  Samuelsson?  Krebs?  Luukkonen?  I don't know.  It seems like our general track record is not great. 

 

 

So you discount Thompson why?

 

Quinn two major leg injuries? (Needs to act like a man in the weight room this offseason.)

 

Benson is 19? (Needs to get stronger work on skating, shot)

 

Power is 22?  (Light needs to come on and get really pissed off about something.)

 

Even Mittlestedt, broke through into a serviceable C before we shipped him out.  He was frankly better here than in COL, are you going to credit our coaches vs the Av's>

 

Not at all saying everything is hunky dory, but the facts say that players have still developed here in SPITE of being thrown into the fire too early.

 

Sometimes it is simply the player.

Edited 3 hours ago by _Q_

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

You did yeoman's work in making your point on Cozens. Frankly, you convinced me and I started seeing everything that you saw that was flawed in his game.  "It doesn't matter what he does the rest of his career because he was never going to be good in Buffalo", is a bizarre take though. You have acknowledged in many posts the many things that the Sabres did wrong in their development and deployment of Cozens. I'm not fooled by Cozens's 1st three games as a Senator.  Nothing would shock me, but it is obviously too early to draw conclusions. But if Cozens does turn it around in Ottawa and becomes something that resembles the player that he was projected to be, then it is absolutely the case that the same could have happened in Buffalo. Maybe not with Adams as GM and Ruff as head coach, but with the right coach, right system, right support.  That's just obvious. Of course, the Sabres have no obligation to change direction in management or coaching to serve a single player.  

I don't see what is bizarre about it.  As I mentioned previously, he was never good defensively, and his offense has been well, well below what you would expect for his pedigree and certainly his contract.  This is one of the cases where if he does turn into a better player, it 'the change of scenery'. I don't see anything bizarre about that.

He has been used with different, even the more 'veteran' linemates. In the last 3 years, he has played 400 minutes with Tuch, 250+ with Mitts, over 200 minutes with Thompson, 150 minutes with Skinner,  Over 150 minutes with Zucker just this year.

He played under what many thing was a run-and-gun system with Granato, and then a more defensive minded system with Granato. Then a new coach/system with Ruff.

He's had seasons where he was given more offensive zone starts. He's had his chance non-stop on the PP.

And as far as who else has developed here? Tage and Tuch both have 'blossomed' into better players here than they were when they got here. Mitts Improved. Peterka, and yes Dahlin and the other players mentioned above.  There are a handful of players, hopefully more on the way, that are becoming better players as they get older with this team, something Cozens really hasn't done.

He had been given every chance to improve his game. He didn't. Others on this team has.  If he does well in Ottawa, fine, there isn't much more they could do here except coddle him.

I don't want him to do poorly, to 'fail' just so the Sabres can 'win' the trade. I hope he does well against everyone but the Sabres.  Why?  He did try, and he seemed like he really wanted to be here. How can you fault someone like that, other than it was time for him to move.

I don't think the Sabres organization is blameless in how he ended up here. Far from it. I'm just saying him staying here on the current path wasn't going to help the team, or him.  

Edited 3 hours ago by mjd1001

[Archie Lee]

17 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

So you discount Thompson why?

 

Quinn two major leg injuries? (Needs to act like a man in the weight room this offseason.)

 

Benson is 19? (Needs to get stronger work on skating, shot)

 

Power is 22?  (Light needs to come on and get really pissed off about something.)

 

Even Mittlestedt, broke through into a serviceable C before we shipped him out.  He was frankly better here than in COL, are you going to credit our coaches vs the Av's>

 

Not at all saying everything is hunky dory, but the facts say that players have still developed here in SPITE of being thrown into the fire too early.

 

Sometimes it is simply the player.

I didn't discount Thompson. He broke out as a player, pretty much out of nowhere, right around the same point that Cozens is at in his career. Prior to the Thompson breakout, nobody was saying we had done a good job "developing" him.

If you think we did a solid job with how we developed Cozens and that his failings are nearly entirely on him and not on how he was developed or deployed by the Sabres, then we can just agree to disagree. 

[Archie Lee]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't see what is bizarre about it.  As I mentioned previously, he was never good defensively, and his offense has been well, well below what you would expect for his pedigree and certainly his contract.  This is one of the cases where if he does turn into a better player, it 'the change of scenery'. I don't see anything bizarre about that.

He has been used with different, even the more 'veteran' linemates. In the last 3 years, he has played 400 minutes with Tuch, 250+ with Mitts, over 200 minutes with Thompson, 150 minutes with Skinner,  Over 150 minutes with Zucker just this year.

He played under what many thing was a run-and-gun system with Granato, and then a more defensive minded system with Granato. Then a new coach/system with Ruff.

He's had seasons where he was given more offensive zone starts. He's had his chance non-stop on the PP.

And as far as who else has developed here? Tage and Tuch both have 'blossomed' into better players here than they were when they got here. Mitts Improved. Peterka, and yes Dahlin and the other players mentioned above.  There are a handful of players, hopefully more on the way, that are becoming better players as they get older with this team, something Cozens really hasn't done.

He had been given every chance to improve his game. He didn't. Others on this team has.  If he does well in Ottawa, fine, there isn't much more they could do here except coddle him.

We agree to disagree.  I think that too much was asked of Cozens too soon and that there are reasonable things that could have been done to develop and deploy him more effectively.  If Ottawa now does those things and he thrives, it is evidence that it could have happened here.  Of course, we are now debating what the meaning will be of something that may not even happen. 

I would not say that Thompson "blossomed" in Buffalo.  I would way he was a pretty big disappointment right up to the point where he exploded. Had he been traded prior to 21-22 (at a similar point in his career to where Cozens is, age-wise), few Sabre fans would have objected. Some would even have said "It doesn't matter if he now becomes good, because it never would have happened here".

If a player can become good anywhere in the NHL, then it can happen in Buffalo. This is so obviously true, that I can't believe I am arguing it. Maybe not with Ralph Krueger as coach, maybe not with Kevyn Adams's "don't block prospects" philosophy, maybe not with Granato's or Ruff's lack of actual structure, but those are variables that have nothing to do with Buffalo and everything to do with bad management.

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I would not say that Thompson "blossomed" in Buffalo.  I would way he was a pretty big disappointment right up to the point where he exploded. Had he been traded prior to 21-22 (at a similar point in his career to where Cozens is, age-wise), few Sabre fans would have objected. Some would even have said "It doesn't matter if he now becomes good, because it never would have happened here".

Sure but Thompson had only played 1 full season at that point. His 2020 and 2021 seasons were cut short. He had totaled only 145 games before his breakout season in 21/22. Dylan Cozens has played 341 games for Buffalo before his trade. Cozens has played 57.5% more games to this point. 

I think Cozens could get better but I don't think Thompson is a good comparison. Tage got traded, got injured, dealt with a Covid season, then exploded. Cozens has pretty much played a rookie year (covid year) and then 3 full years and is finishing his 4th. He might be better in Ottawa, that's true, but I don't think he's gonna sustain a 25% shooting percentage. 

[_Q_]

20 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

We agree to disagree.  I think that too much was asked of Cozens too soon and that there are reasonable things that could have been done to develop and deploy him more effectively.  If Ottawa now does those things and he thrives, it is evidence that it could have happened here.  Of course, we are now debating what the meaning will be of something that may not even happen. 

I would not say that Thompson "blossomed" in Buffalo.  I would way he was a pretty big disappointment right up to the point where he exploded. Had he been traded prior to 21-22 (at a similar point in his career to where Cozens is, age-wise), few Sabre fans would have objected. Some would even have said "It doesn't matter if he now becomes good, because it never would have happened here".

If a player can become good anywhere in the NHL, then it can happen in Buffalo. This is so obviously true, that I can't believe I am arguing it. Maybe not with Ralph Krueger as coach, maybe not with Kevyn Adams's "don't block prospects" philosophy, maybe not with Granato's or Ruff's lack of actual structure, but those are variables that have nothing to do with Buffalo and everything to do with bad management.

So did it happen in a road game??

[Archie Lee]

44 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Sure but Thompson had only played 1 full season at that point. His 2020 and 2021 seasons were cut short. He had totaled only 145 games before his breakout season in 21/22. Dylan Cozens has played 341 games for Buffalo before his trade. Cozens has played 57.5% more games to this point. 

I think Cozens could get better but I don't think Thompson is a good comparison. Tage got traded, got injured, dealt with a Covid season, then exploded. Cozens has pretty much played a rookie year (covid year) and then 3 full years and is finishing his 4th. He might be better in Ottawa, that's true, but I don't think he's gonna sustain a 25% shooting percentage. 

Fully agreed.

My argument is not that Cozens is about to become the player we hoped he would be.  Rather it is that if he does, then there will be variables (his new role, deployment, linemates; the new team structure, culture, expectations, etc.) that have impacted his improvement; there is no reason to discount that some variation of those variables could not exist in Buffalo. That seems obvious to me.

Further, while Cozens might have been the most disappointing of our young players, I think it is fair to say that in general our young NHL players have not developed as hoped or planned.  In the simplest of terms, we would not be dead last in the Eastern Conference if our young players were even collectively, not individually, meeting expectations.  Cozens alone did not sink this season.

On balance, over the past decade the Buffalo Sabres organization has not proven to be a place where young players thrive. That some have thrived, or eventually thrived, is not evidence that the organization is performing well in this regard. Indeed, if the young NHL player whose performance most disappointed in Buffalo (Cozens) were to go on to thrive elsewhere, that would seem to be a clear indictment of the organization, rather than the player.

[_Q_]

6 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Fully agreed.

My argument is not that Cozens is about to become the player we hoped he would be.  Rather it is that if he does, then there will be variables (his new role, deployment, linemates; the new team structure, culture, expectations, etc.) that have impacted his improvement; there is no reason to discount that some variation of those variables could not exist in Buffalo. That seems obvious to me.

Further, while Cozens might have been the most disappointing of our young players, I think it is fair to say that in general our young NHL players have not developed as hoped or planned.  In the simplest of terms, we would not be dead last in the Eastern Conference if our young players were even collectively, not individually, meeting expectations.  Cozens alone did not sink this season.

On balance, over the past decade the Buffalo Sabres organization has not proven to be a place where young players thrive. That some have thrived, or eventually thrived, is not evidence that the organization is performing well in this regard. Indeed, if the young NHL player whose performance most disappointed in Buffalo (Cozens) were to go on to thrive elsewhere, that would seem to be a clear indictment of the organization, rather than the player.

Of the young players, we have Benson at 19 (who should be in the AHL if not for idiotic WHL rules), Quinn who while medically recovered from two major leg injuries, is certainly not physically recovered and Power.  These are the high end prospects that you are lumping in with Cozens and claiming they cannot develop in the ORG.  Then ignoring Thompson as an aberration.

My opinion is that we are seeing all of these prospects too early or slotting them too high in the lineup when they get here.  However, most are still progressing.

Power who I have all kinds of frustration with is interesting, and an example of this.  Here is a Grok analysis of his age 22 season, how he compares to others and how he projects moving forward.  This has made me take a step back on him for sure.

 

Owen Power, the 22-year-old defenseman for the Buffalo Sabres, has quickly established himself as one of the NHL's most promising young blueliners since being selected first overall in the 2021 NHL Draft. As of March 12, 2025, he’s in his third NHL season at age 22 (born November 22, 2002), providing a solid sample to compare him to other notable defenders at a similar age and project his future potential. Let’s break this down by comparing his performance to historical and contemporary peers around age 22, then assessing his trajectory.

Comparison to Other Defenders at Age 22

To contextualize Power’s development, I’ll compare him to a mix of elite defensemen—some who peaked early, others who grew into superstars—focusing on their age-22 seasons (stats adjusted to the closest full season at that age). Note that Power’s stats below reflect his career totals through his first 189 NHL games (up to early March 2025, assuming a typical pace for the 2024-25 season based on available data).

Owen Power (2024-25, Age 22, projected through 189 games)

Stats (career to date): ~18 goals, ~84 assists, ~102 points, +34, ~23:00 TOI/game (based on hockey-reference.com trends and 2024-25 partial data).

2022-23 (age 20, 79 GP): 4 G, 31 A, 35 PTS, +10, 23:48 TOI.

Strengths: Exceptional skating for his 6’6” frame, high hockey IQ, two-way reliability, power-play contributions (8 PPP in 2022-23).

Context: Played top-pair minutes as a rookie, anchoring Buffalo’s defense during their best season since 2010-11.

Victor Hedman (2009-10, Age 22, 74 GP)

Stats: 4 G, 16 A, 20 PTS, -3, 20:50 TOI.

At 22, Hedman was still adjusting to the NHL with Tampa Bay, showing flashes of his skating and size (6’6”) but not yet the offensive dynamo he’d become. His breakout came later (Norris at 27).

Comparison: Power’s production and ice time already outpace Hedman’s at this age, though Hedman’s physicality was more pronounced early.

Rasmus Dahlin (2020-21, Age 22, 78 GP)

Stats: 13 G, 40 A, 53 PTS, -36, 25:47 TOI.

Dahlin, Power’s teammate, was a point-producing machine by 22 but struggled defensively on a weaker Sabres team. His skating and offensive instincts were elite, much like Power’s, though Power’s plus-minus reflects better team context and defensive reliability.

Comparison: Power’s offense lags behind Dahlin’s at this age, but his two-way game and efficiency (e.g., +9 in 10 games in 2023-24 per X posts) suggest a more balanced foundation.

Aaron Ekblad (2016-17, Age 22, 82 GP)

Stats: 10 G, 11 A, 21 PTS, +2, 21:35 TOI.

Ekblad, another No. 1 pick, was a steady two-way presence for Florida, winning the Calder at 19. By 22, he was a top-pair stalwart but not yet a point-per-game threat (that came later).

Comparison: Power’s assist totals and ice time surpass Ekblad’s, hinting at a higher offensive ceiling, though Ekblad’s physical edge was notable earlier.

Drew Doughty (2010-11, Age 22, 76 GP)

Stats: 11 G, 29 A, 40 PTS, +13, 25:41 TOI.

Doughty was already a Norris contender by 22, blending offense, defense, and elite skating. His Kings were playoff-bound, and he logged massive minutes.

Comparison: Power’s stats are close to Doughty’s in assists and TOI, though Doughty’s goal-scoring and playoff pedigree at 22 set a higher bar. Power’s trajectory aligns well here.

Cale Makar (2021-22, Age 22, 77 GP)

Stats: 28 G, 58 A, 86 PTS, +48, 25:40 TOI.

Makar’s age-22 season was a Norris-winning masterpiece, showcasing unparalleled offensive flair and skating. He’s an outlier among young defensemen.

Comparison: Power doesn’t match Makar’s explosive offense, but his size and defensive stability offer a different flavor—more Hedman-like than Makar-like.

Statistical Context and Trends

Power’s career stats through 189 games (projected): 102 points in 189 GP (0.54 PPG), +34, and ~23:00 TOI. Among defensemen since 2000 in their first three seasons (ages 19-22), this pace is impressive:

Top-pair production: His 0.54 PPG ranks him among the likes of Quinn Hughes (0.65 PPG) and Erik Karlsson (0.60 PPG) at similar stages, though below Makar (0.90 PPG).

Plus-minus: His +34 reflects strong 5v5 play (e.g., 55.9 GF% at age 20 per X posts), outpacing Hedman (-9) and Ekblad (+11) through their first 189 games.

Ice time: Averaging over 23 minutes as a rookie and beyond places him in elite company—Doughty, Hedman, and Dahlin all hovered around 24-25 minutes by 22.

Potential Projection

Owen Power’s blend of size (6’6”, 221 lbs), skating, and hockey sense positions him as a potential franchise defenseman. Here’s a projection based on his current trajectory and comparisons:

Ceiling: Top-Pair, Norris-Caliber Anchor

Model: Victor Hedman. Power’s size, skating, and two-way game mirror Hedman’s evolution. If he develops a harder shot (a noted weakness early) and boosts his physicality, he could hit 60-70 points annually by his mid-20s, paired with elite defensive metrics. A Norris Trophy isn’t out of reach by age 27-28 (2030-31), especially if Buffalo becomes a contender.

Stats by Prime (Age 26-28): 15-20 G, 45-55 A, 60-75 PTS, +20 to +30, 25:00+ TOI.

Likely Outcome: Reliable No. 1 Defenseman

Model: A blend of Doughty and Ekblad. Even without Hedman’s peak offense, Power’s consistency, ice time, and efficiency suggest a perennial 40-50-point, +20 defenseman who logs 24-25 minutes across all situations. He’d be the Sabres’ defensive backbone, akin to Doughty’s early Kings tenure.

Stats by Prime: 10-15 G, 35-45 A, 45-60 PTS, +15 to +25, 24:00-25:00 TOI.

Floor: High-End Top-Pair Defender

Model: Early-career Ekblad. If Power’s offense plateaus (e.g., due to team context or injury), he still projects as a 30-40-point, defensively sound blueliner who eats minutes—valuable but not transcendent.

Stats by Prime: 8-12 G, 25-35 A, 35-45 PTS, +10 to +20, 23:00-24:00 TOI.

Key Factors in His Development

Offensive Growth: Power’s assist-heavy game (31 A in 2022-23) hints at playmaking potential, but his goal totals (6 in 82 GP at 20) lag behind peers like Dahlin or Makar. Improving his shot power and confidence could unlock 15+ goals annually.

Physical Maturity: At 22, he’s still filling out his frame. Added strength could elevate his board battles and net-front presence, aligning him closer to Hedman’s physical peak.

Team Success: Buffalo’s rise (or stagnation) will shape his stats and recognition. A playoff run by 2026-27 could cement his reputation.

Conclusion

At 22, Owen Power already outpaces many elite defensemen’s production and responsibility at the same age (Hedman, Ekblad), trails offensive dynamos (Makar, Dahlin), and aligns closely with all-around stars (Doughty). His skating, size, and IQ give him a rare toolkit—few 6’6” defenders move like him. Barring injury or a drastic drop-off, he’s on track to become a top-5 NHL defenseman by his late 20s, likely hitting a Hedman-esque peak if he maximizes his offensive upside. For now, he’s a cornerstone with room to grow into a superstar.

[mjd1001]

29 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

At 22, Owen Power already outpaces many elite defensemen’s production and responsibility at the same age (Hedman, Ekblad), trails offensive dynamos (Makar, Dahlin), and aligns closely with all-around stars (Doughty). His skating, size, and IQ give him a rare toolkit—few 6’6” defenders move like him. Barring injury or a drastic drop-off, he’s on track to become a top-5 NHL defenseman by his late 20s, likely hitting a Hedman-esque peak if he maximizes his offensive upside. For now, he’s a cornerstone with room to grow into a superstar.

I don't have much of a problem being patient with Power. I don't want to move him, not at the deadline or the offseason.

However, with that said, I think it would have been best to have someone else signed that would enable Power to have a few less minutes, especially in those periods when he is struggling.  

If it takes 2-3 more years for him to be what you want him to be, fine.  But you should have thrown some money at a 26-30 year old GOOD veteran D-man to play with him AND to take some of the more difficult minutes away from him during those periods he needs a break.