Sabres Trade Dylan Cozens/Dennis Gilbert and 2026 2nd Round Pick to Ottawa for Josh Norris and Bernard Docker

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

So, after reading the responses to this trade so far, did we get the better player?

Cozens definitely under performed here after that 30 goal season. Was it system? Was it the jaw incident? I don’t know, but he’s showed no signs of returning to form imo.

I think for sure the Sabres got the better player.

It isn't about scoring goals either. The numbers and history show that Norris is better in terms of pure production.

The biggest thing is that the Sabres removed someone who might be among the worst defensive/neutral zone forward in the entire league, and hopefully replaced him with someone that is at least average.

If Norris scores at his career rate, you are getting the better offensive player. If Norris is even average away from the puck, you are getting a huge upgrade there.

We'll see how he 'fits' on this team, If he can stay healthy. But over an 82 game season, I think he helps you generate up to 10 more goals a year as a team than Cozens, and I think he might help you prevent, or at least 'not cause', 5-10 goals less per year than him.  If you can get a net 10-15 goals per year differntial with this deal...and I DO think that is possible over a full 82 game season, that is a huge win for a single move.

Edited yesterday at 04:42 PM by mjd1001

[Jorcus]

47 minutes ago, inkman said:

I haven’t heard it anywhere but I always felt Quinn & Peterka were largely responsible for Dylan’s offensive success.  Maybe it’s not the case but seeing every player buoyed that’s paired with Dahlin made me think of it.  Samuelsson and Joker both have Dahlin to thanks for their modicum of success at the NHL level.  It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s was similar with Cozens and his two former linemates. 

Don’t hurt your elbow patting yourself on the back 

 

When Cozens was playing well and teamed with Peterka and Quinn they were very effective on the rush. Not much defense with that line. I posted the all of Cozens goals video in another thread a while back and he was an equal contributor back at that time. What is apparent is that he scores most of his goals skating toward the net from above but in between the dots. He has not been too effective scoring from other positions on the ice. A lot have things have fallen off since then. I watched some or the Norris videos and and it does seem like he is effective at scoring from different areas of the ice. That should be a plus.   

[Big Guava]

I guess after thinking about this more I am a little irritated Adams couldn't do better than this for Cozens.

23, reasonable contract, very durable, had a very good year 2 years ago but is having a much worse year this year than his talent would suggest.

Norris is kinda the same but is 2 years older, very injury prone and has a 900K higher cap hit.

IMO, Cousins should be much more valuable than Norris is for just those reasons alone.

Maybe a minor upgrade with Docker over Gilbert but not expecting much from him, and then we give them a 2nd round pick?

Man...we need Regier back as GM. He would never be the one getting fleeced in trades...

[Jorcus]

24 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

FWIW Tampa’s Offer for Tuch was 1st and 4th.

 

I wonder what happens after you take an insulting call like that? 

[Big Guava]

20 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I think for sure the Sabres got the better player.

It isn't about scoring goals either. The numbers and history show that Norris is better in terms of pure production.

The biggest thing is that the Sabres removed someone who might be among the worst defensive/neutral zone forward in the entire league, and hopefully replaced him with someone that is at least average.

If Norris scores at his career rate, you are getting the better offensive player. If Norris is even average away from the puck, you are getting a huge upgrade there.

We'll see how he 'fits' on this team, If he can stay healthy. But over an 82 game season, I think he helps you generate up to 10 more goals a year as a team than Cozens, and I think he might help you prevent, or at least 'not cause', 5-10 goals less per year than him.  If you can get a net 10-15 goals per year differntial with this deal...and I DO think that is possible over a full 82 game season, that is a huge win for a single move.

Well they definitely got the better defensive player without question.

Cozens was a liability on D

Norris isn't going to get any Selke votes but he is very capable and at least league average there.

Edited yesterday at 04:58 PM by Big Guava

[dudacek]

4 hours ago, Jorcus said:

 

The Ottawa GM kept talking about improving 5 on 5 play. Not sure how this trade helps that. Still not sure why Ottawa made this trade other than they found a way to save a little money. He did say something about this trade enabled the Zetterlund acquisition. 

It’s about the offence for them. Ottawa doesn’t create much of it 5 on 5, and Cozens has produced twice as many points as Norris has minus special teams.

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

A different perspective, 

 

A lot of this stuff kinda rings true for the Sabres as well: Cozens had a similar profile in a similarly constructed room.

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

No, I think Tage is back to wing. 

Peterka - Kulich - Tage

Benson - Norris - Tuch

Greenway - McLeod - Zucker/Quinn

Ftr, I view these top 3 lines as having interchangeable parts. 

Malenstyn - Krebs - Lafferty 

... Adams has to move another player impo.

I will say that when I look at the lineup projections, I find myself constantly feeling safer with Norris lines than I have been with Cozens lines. Norris may actually complement those two instead of getting in their way.

2 hours ago, Weave said:

The outside world all seem to feel that Ott got the better of this deal?

Gives me reason for concern.

 

1 hour ago, inkman said:

I haven’t heard it anywhere but I always felt Quinn & Peterka were largely responsible for Dylan’s offensive success.  Maybe it’s not the case but seeing every player buoyed that’s paired with Dahlin made me think of it.  Samuelsson and Joker both have Dahlin to thanks for their modicum of success at the NHL level.  It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s was similar with Cozens and his two former linemates. 

Good call there, coupled with the sheltered offensive minutes in Granato’s “just go for it” system.

To the reaction, I think we forget how much the NHL narrative is driven by the Toronto-based Canadian media.

I am willing to bet the talking heads (and a lot of fans) have watched Cozens play more wearing a red maple leaf than they have in blue and gold. As the commentary has made clear, they haven’t watched the same things.

Nine goals at the World Championships carries more weight with them than -19 against Carolina.

59 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

I used to squint at some decisions/statements coming out of Sabreland and hand-wave that away with a “Lindy Ruff knows more about hockey than I ever will.”

I’m not so sure any more.

31 minutes ago, Big Guava said:

I guess after thinking about this more I am a little irritated Adams couldn't do better than this for Cozens....

I have no idea what your thoughts Cozens have been this season, but the board consensus is he’s been terrible.

How does that compute with “shoulda got more”? Other teams were watching him too.

Edited yesterday at 05:23 PM by dudacek

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

The outside world all seem to feel that Ott got the better of this deal?

Gives me reason for concern.

I think a lot of the 'outside world' is either Canadian media, or American hockey media that has a lot of Canadian members.

An American got traded to an American team, in exchange for a Canadian getting traded to a Canadian team. When it comes to hockey, the saying is true..."Canada loves Canada".  No shot intended there, thats just the way it is.

Also related to that, a lot of that media is Canada based, and they know what their audience wants to hear.  Give them what they want.

Finally, Cozenes 'highlights' are more positive than his actual play.  Most people see, or at least hear some of his nicer goals, they hear "Top 10 pick", or "fomer 31 goal scorer".  The outside world doesn't see the missed assignments, the lost pucks in his skates, the lack of awareness of anything related to the NHL hockey game in his decisions. 

Edited yesterday at 05:35 PM by mjd1001

[inkman]

The MSG crew just mentioned the toughness Cozens brings to the lineup for Ottawa (they are playing the Rangers right now)

[DarthEbriate]

Tuned into TSN and saw the 1st intermission highlights/spotlight on Cozens. He bumped into people on the ice. Maybe one of those gets credited as a hit in Buffalo. In his first Sens home game: one period, 5 hits. Those were the easiest 5 hits he'll ever earn.

[triumph_communes]

16 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Tuned into TSN and saw the 1st intermission highlights/spotlight on Cozens. He bumped into people on the ice. Maybe one of those gets credited as a hit in Buffalo. In his first Sens home game: one period, 5 hits. Those were the easiest 5 hits he'll ever earn.

Whole lotta Canada self promotion right now. Feel bad for the kid 

[SabresBillsFan]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

The MSG crew just mentioned the toughness Cozens brings to the lineup for Ottawa (they are playing the Rangers right now)

The guy that got beat up by a small player on Carolina

[PerreaultForever]

31 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Tuned into TSN and saw the 1st intermission highlights/spotlight on Cozens. He bumped into people on the ice. Maybe one of those gets credited as a hit in Buffalo. In his first Sens home game: one period, 5 hits. Those were the easiest 5 hits he'll ever earn.

He had pep in his step though. What I didn't know is he's pals with Batherson who is his linemate now (and he's staying at his house) so that might have factored in and sort of offsets the Brady Tkachuk being friends with Norris thing. 

Gilbert is 7th D but he looked happy. 

idk time will tell. I see a Connolly situation with Norris though. Great talent but going to have trouble staying healthy. Hence I don't like it. As a GM I would never trade for guys with injury issues. It's just dumb. 

[shrader]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

The outside world all seem to feel that Ott got the better of this deal?

Gives me reason for concern.

A Canadian player was traded for an American player. What else would you expect?

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

FWIW Tampa’s Offer for Tuch was 1st and 4th.

 

Do they even have a 1st and a 4th?

[dudacek]

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/josh-norris-pregame-at-fla-6369779321112

[PromoTheRobot]

Cozzy almost scored on the power play against the Rangers.

[inkman]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Cozzy almost scored on the power play against the Rangers.

He almost scored a lot of goals for the Sabres as well 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

Tuned into TSN and saw the 1st intermission highlights/spotlight on Cozens. He bumped into people on the ice. Maybe one of those gets credited as a hit in Buffalo. In his first Sens home game: one period, 5 hits. Those were the easiest 5 hits he'll ever earn.

TSN was gushing about the "toughness" Cozens brings.  No less than 24 hours earlier Ray Ferraro was asking why Cozens was just standing there while Dahlin was being jumped.

1 minute ago, inkman said:

He almost scored a lot of goals for the Sabres as well 

He also falls a lot.

[freester]

Cozens got an assist 

[pastajoe]

Weird seeing Cozens getting excited over Ottawa winning. 😵‍💫

[PerreaultForever]

20 minutes ago, pastajoe said:

Weird seeing Cozens getting excited over Ottawa winning. 😵‍💫

Second star of the game. Career high number of hits (although some of them were just bumps). Looked ecstatic in the win and when did he ever get to toss his stick to a kid in a rocking and roaring arena? I'm guessing he's going home with Batherson feeling like he's won the lottery. 

Here we go again. 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Second star of the game. Career high number of hits (although some of them were just bumps). Looked ecstatic in the win and when did he ever get to toss his stick to a kid in a rocking and roaring arena? I'm guessing he's going home with Batherson feeling like he's won the lottery. 

Here we go again. 

Lol, oh yea 1a and 1shot

"Here we go again" ... lol

[Big Guava]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

It’s about the offence for them. Ottawa doesn’t create much of it 5 on 5, and Cozens has produced twice as many points as Norris has minus special teams.

A lot of this stuff kinda rings true for the Sabres as well: Cozens had a similar profile in a similarly constructed room.

I will say that when I look at the lineup projections, I find myself constantly feeling safer with Norris lines than I have been with Cozens lines. Norris may actually complement those two instead of getting in their way.

 

Good call there, coupled with the sheltered offensive minutes in Granato’s “just go for it” system.

To the reaction, I think we forget how much the NHL narrative is driven by the Toronto-based Canadian media.

I am willing to bet the talking heads (and a lot of fans) have watched Cozens play more wearing a red maple leaf than they have in blue and gold. As the commentary has made clear, they haven’t watched the same things.

Nine goals at the World Championships carries more weight with them than -19 against Carolina.

I used to squint at some decisions/statements coming out of Sabreland and hand-wave that away with a “Lindy Ruff knows more about hockey than I ever will.”

I’m not so sure any more.

I have no idea what your thoughts Cozens have been this season, but the board consensus is he’s been terrible.

How does that compute with “shoulda got more”? Other teams were watching him too.

He has but clearly it is a low point for him and not his average of what could be expected.

I would think that a 23 year old player who still has time to improve, is very durable and has shown he has skill is worth more than a guy who has missed 100 games the last 2 years and can't stay on the ice and is more expensive and 2 years older.

Let alone then throwing in a 2nd round pick to boot.

Especially when it's an open secret that the Sens have been shopping Norris for a loooong time and found no buyers...why the hell are you paying a premium to take a guy they are desperate to get rid of??

It would be like someone that is putting stuff at the curb with a free sign on it and you go up to the house and hand them $100 for it...like what are you doing??

Edited 23 hours ago by Big Guava

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Big Guava said:

He has but clearly it is a low point for him and not his average of what could be expected.

I would think that a 23 year old player who still has time to improve, is very durable and has shown he has skill is worth more than a guy who has missed 100 games the last 2 years and can't stay on the ice and is more expensive and 2 years older.

Let alone then throwing in a 2nd round pick to boot.

Especially when it's an open secret that the Sens have been shopping Norris for a loooong time and found no buyers...why the hell are you paying a premium to take a guy they are desperate to get rid of??

It would be like someone that is putting stuff at the curb with a free sign on it and you go up to the house and hand them $100 for it...like what are you doing??

 

Good thing Norris has only missed 61 games not 100 then I guess

[mjd1001]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Good thing Norris has only missed 61 games not 100 then I guess

Not to mention where is this 'skill' that Cozens has that is better than Norris?

Norris faster.  Norris has a much more accurate shot.  

And Cozens? Skill?  I must be missing the skill of him tripping down and almost falling over no-one a couple times a game, of him passing to open teamates where it is behind them. If him losing passes to him in his skates, of him taking shots where there is only one guy between him and the goalie and him perfectly blasting the shot into the shin pads of the one defender in front of him. And yes, all these things happen on a routine basis, and yes, its not just me saying it, we point them out over and over as they happen in the game day threads.

[_Q_]

5 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Not to mention where is this 'skill' that Cozens has that is better than Norris?

Norris faster.  Norris has a much more accurate shot.  

And Cozens? Skill?  I must be missing the skill of him tripping down and almost falling over no-one a couple times a game, of him passing to open teamates where it is behind them. If him losing passes to him in his skates, of him taking shots where there is only one guy between him and the goalie and him perfectly blasting the shot into the shin pads of the one defender in front of him. And yes, all these things happen on a routine basis, and yes, its not just me saying it, we point them out over and over as they happen in the game day threads.

This is all true.

 

This could be a real upgrade without creating another hole.