The Athletic Agents Poll

[PromoTheRobot]

49 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

wth is going on here, man. you a PR flack or sum?

Is that statement wrong?

[CallawaySabres]

9 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

I honestly never understood why everyone thought he was intimately involved in every single decision. 
 

Keeping the team as young as possible, hiring only first time GM’s/coaches, and having the GM’s on a very strict budget shows he doesn’t care much about the Sabres. His 100% focus is and will be always with the Bills. He knows that they can keep the Sabres fans believing enough that they will still pay so they can keep the lights on at the arena. 
 

 

 

I have no doubt in my mind that he was HEAVILY involved in GM and coaching searches and that is exactly why this organization is so terrible. I don't believe he has a hand in free agent and trade decisions but coaches and GMs...no wonder this team does not stand a chance.

[That Aud Smell]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Is that statement wrong?

Defensible, I suppose.

Just such a weird vibe given how Pegula’s managed to destroy the Sabres franchise.

[That Aud Smell]

10 hours ago, JustOneParade said:

I found it interesting that the agent cites TP for a 'lack of involvement', which is completely opposite of the opinion of most on this board (myself included). 

This is interesting.

Where did we recently see it reported that Terry insists on staying closely involved in hockey ops?

[JohnC]

18 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

This is interesting.

Where did we recently see it reported that Terry insists on staying closely involved in hockey ops?

It doesn't matter whether the non-talking owner is involved or not involved in the hockey operations. However he wants to function as an owner is his prerogative. What is manifestly clear is that during his near generational tenure is that his franchise, based on its record, has failed. His most impactful acts relating to his franchise relates to the people he personally selected to run the operation. And because of his poor personnel judgment the franchise is considered a failure by people in the business. 

Edited Thursday at 07:19 PM by JohnC

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

It doesn't matter whether the non-talking owner is involved or not involved in the hockey operations. However he wants to function as an owner is his prerogative. What is manifestly clear is that during his near generational tenure is that his franchise, based on its record, has failed. His most impactful acts relating to his franchise relates to the people he personally selects to run the operation. And because of his poor personnel judgment the franchise is considered a failure by people in the business everyone with a functioning brain.

I actually think it is interesting, but all the same FIFY.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

It doesn't matter whether the non-talking owner is involved or not involved in the hockey operations. However he wants to function as an owner is his prerogative. What is manifestly clear is that during his near generational tenure is that his franchise, based on its record, has failed. His most impactful acts relating to his franchise relates to the people he personally selects to run the operation. And because of his poor personnel judgment the franchise is considered a failure by people in the business. 

It absolutely matters whether and to what extent Pegula’s involved in hockey ops.

There were fairly recent reports intimating that Pegula was dug in deep on evaluating amateurs, prospects, and pro personnel. Now it’s being suggested he’s a miser who’s out to lunch.

Interesting stuff — for me.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Defensible, I suppose.

Just such a weird vibe given how Pegula’s managed to destroy the Sabres franchise.

Yes I know. It is weird.

[Sidc3000]

9 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

I have no doubt in my mind that he was HEAVILY involved in GM and coaching searches and that is exactly why this organization is so terrible. I don't believe he has a hand in free agent and trade decisions but coaches and GMs...no wonder this team does not stand a chance.

I would think all owners hire the GM. Who would if it isn’t the owner? 
 

the biggest “meddling” he has is cutting costs and keeping them on a very strict budget. That is why the team sucks. 
 

The way I read that article was that Terry doesn’t care much about the team. So much that the agents see how  much he doesn’t care. 

[Sidc3000]

9 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

This is interesting.

Where did we recently see it reported that Terry insists on staying closely involved in hockey ops?

Exactly, where. I have seen people constantly say that but I haven’t seen any proof of it other than maybe Paul Hamilton say Terry cares about the team. 

[tom webster]

9 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

I have no doubt in my mind that he was HEAVILY involved in GM and coaching searches and that is exactly why this organization is so terrible. I don't believe he has a hand in free agent and trade decisions but coaches and GMs...no wonder this team does not stand a chance.

I know this is almost universally accepted but as I have said numerous times, only the Adams hire was completely out of left field. Every other hire was someone that was considered a top candidate and most on the leagues “short list” of recommended hires. Krueger was the most “controversial “ hire and he was applauded by a significant portion of the league hierarchy, most of whom thought he got a raw deal in Edmonton.

There is no doubt it has been disaster, and I have my opinion why, but making unorthodox hires, is not what caused the lack of success.

[mjd1001]

11 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

This is interesting.

Where did we recently see it reported that Terry insists on staying closely involved in hockey ops?

Buffalo news for one.

They ran an article earlier this year (the offseason) where he was involved in hockey related decisions.

 

Edited Thursday at 01:01 PM by mjd1001

[That Aud Smell]

3 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

Exactly, where. I have seen people constantly say that but I haven’t seen any proof of it other than maybe Paul Hamilton say Terry cares about the team. 

Hmm. There was something fairly concrete recently -- where some of the chatter here was like: "huh. well there it is."

3 hours ago, tom webster said:

I know this is almost universally accepted but as I have said numerous times, only the Adams hire was completely out of left field. Every other hire was someone that was considered a top candidate and most on the leagues “short list” of recommended hires. Krueger was the most “controversial “ hire and he was applauded by a significant portion of the league hierarchy, most of whom thought he got a raw deal in Edmonton.

There is no doubt it has been disaster, and I have my opinion why, but making unorthodox hires, is not what caused the lack of success.

This is a fair and sober point. I get so frustrated at times - I lose sight of the forest. I recall the theory/inference -- perhaps from you @tom webster -- that the Sabres got Adams in part because Pegula felt let down/burned by following what conventional NHL wisdom advised him to do (several times) and that he wound up turning to someone he knew, liked, and trusted (a common theme for Pegula (and, if we're being honest, a lot of people)).

Edit: OTOH, reading Harrington's piece -- referenced below -- reminded me of how the entire organ-eye-zayshun is (arguably) understaffed and, to the extent it is staffed, it's staffed by people with limited and dubious credentials.

53 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Buffalo news for one.

They ran an article earlier this year (the offseason) where he was involved in hockey related decisions.

Edited Thursday at 01:55 PM by That Aud Smell

[That Aud Smell]

It was Harrington from late December that I had in mind:

The problem here, as hard as it may be to believe, is really not palm trees or taxes. That’s just the soundbite gaffe the GM made in an otherwise legitimate answer about the Sabres needing to earn their respect to recruit players.

... what’s missed is the most important takeaway from the news conference: Adams speaks to Pegula every day.

It’s well-known by those of us who cover this team but lots of you probably needed to hear that in the open. There’s your organizational red flag, the siren wailing to signify the real problem here.

Pegula loves hockey and loves the Sabres. Anyone who says he doesn’t care about them because he’s now an NFL owner doesn’t understand what makes him tick. Pegula is a season-ticket holder dating more than 40 years ago. Hockey − and not football − is his first love, even though he might be two months from winning a Super Bowl and doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in Orchard Park of winning a Stanley Cup anytime soon.

...

Pegula has long refused the model of having a president of hockey operations because he likes the direct line to the GM. The results say it’s a 14-year mistake he needs to rethink, even if he’s still spooked by whatever version of events you believe happened 11 years ago with Pat LaFontaine. Pegula needs more veteran hockey minds, just like his team needs more veteran players.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, tom webster said:

I know this is almost universally accepted but as I have said numerous times, only the Adams hire was completely out of left field. Every other hire was someone that was considered a top candidate and most on the leagues “short list” of recommended hires. Krueger was the most “controversial “ hire and he was applauded by a significant portion of the league hierarchy, most of whom thought he got a raw deal in Edmonton.

There is no doubt it has been disaster, and I have my opinion why, but making unorthodox hires, is not what caused the lack of success.

It's not the quantity of unorthodox hires that has plagued this franchise as it is that the most important hire in a hockey operation was an odd pick. That selection reverberates throughout the organization. When your top man is below the norm for the position---you can't escape from it. In pro sports, whether it is football, basketball or hockey, if you flub the GM selection you are handicapping your franchise. And that's what happened with the Sabres. I'm not suggesting that KA is a disaster because he has done some good things. However, what I'm comfortable in saying is that compared to the other GMs in the league, he is substandard. 

[Pimlach]

21 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

That's basically it. There are specific complaints about Dundon being too involved. But with Pegula it's "his team hasn't been good."

Curious about the "lack of involvement* comments about Terry 😂 considering how convinced some here are he's driving the bus. Maybe he needs to get MORE involved seeing how successful Tom Dundon is in NC. 🤪

Please no.  

After starting with a confusing and bloated hockey front office organization, one that included friends and family, Terry switched to an extremely streamlined FO, no hockey operations President or VP, and no executive hockey consultants.  Terry put his wife in charge.  Terry selects the GM.  Terry is involved in the selection of the HC. Terry sets the budget.  Terry told us about the EEE plan.  Terry demanded the ROR trade.  Terry pushed for a Skinner deal. Terry wanted Eichel out, no special surgery.  Terry wanted Ruff.  

Just because one random unnamed agent says he is not involved doesn’t make it true.  Not involved  could mean he doesn’t care.  That’s more believable. 

[PromoTheRobot]

38 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Please no.  

After starting with a confusing and bloated hockey front office organization, one that included friends and family, Terry switched to an extremely streamlined FO, no hockey operations President or VP, and no executive hockey consultants.  Terry put his wife in charge.  Terry selects the GM.  Terry is involved in the selection of the HC. Terry sets the budget.  Terry told us about the EEE plan.  Terry demanded the ROR trade.  Terry pushed for a Skinner deal. Terry wanted Eichel out, no special surgery.  Terry wanted Ruff.  

Just because one random unnamed agent says he is not involved doesn’t make it true.  Not involved  could mean he doesn’t care.  That’s more believable. 

I was kidding. 

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, tom webster said:

I know this is almost universally accepted but as I have said numerous times, only the Adams hire was completely out of left field. Every other hire was someone that was considered a top candidate and most on the leagues “short list” of recommended hires. Krueger was the most “controversial “ hire and he was applauded by a significant portion of the league hierarchy, most of whom thought he got a raw deal in Edmonton.

There is no doubt it has been disaster, and I have my opinion why, but making unorthodox hires, is not what caused the lack of success.

I do not accept that LaFontaine, a former Sabre, was ever a top candidate to run an NHL team.  Not after his short stint and bizarre time in NYI.    Murray was a LaFontaine hire and he also was boarder-line hire, and without his Uncle who was he?  Where is he today?   

Then he put his wife in charge and I don’t think she was any help, or got along with a crusty guy like Murray.  

Botterill was highly thought of, a former Sabre, and Terry listened to his Pittsburgh buddies on him, while passing on Bill Zito. 

Housley as a HC - like Boterill, being a former Sabre was one of his best attributes.   Krueger was a joke of a hire, applause around the league (if true) turned out to be unwarranted.   

Adam’s was a trusted person who would carry out the purging and the EEE, and the low cost draft and develop no blocker strategy.  

Rumor has it Terry “talked” to Briere.  

Lindy Ruff, a former Sabre, a friend of Terry, was the entire “exhaustive coaching search”.   

So in summary he took some advice from the league, some advice from “hockey friends”, he hired some former Sabres, and he has failed at every turn.   Boterill was his one and only “highly thought off” and “up and coming” hire. 

With the Bills he first hired Rex Ryan, at the behest of Russ Brandon.   He scored big with McDermott the second time around, so for that I am grateful.   McD fit the description of “up and coming” and was on the NFL list of top coaching talent. 
 

 

Edited Thursday at 03:09 PM by Pimlach

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Housley as a HC - like Boterill, being a former Sabre was one of his best attributes.   Krueger was a joke of a hire, applause around the league (if true) turned out to be unwarranted.   

 

Wasn't Housley at the time of his hire highly thought of around the league as a somewhat older, but up-and-coming head coach?

I don't remember it that well, but I think I heard talk that it was thought he did such a good job as an assistant coach working with D-men (Nashville was it?) that even outside of Buffalo he was a 'hot candidate' for head coaching jobs.

[JustOneParade]

12 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

It absolutely matters whether and to what extent Pegula’s involved in hockey ops.

There were fairly recent reports intimating that Pegula was dug in deep on evaluating amateurs, prospects, and pro personnel. Now it’s being suggested he’s a miser who’s out to lunch.

Interesting stuff — for me.

Me too.

[JustOneParade]

17 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Wasn't Housley at the time of his hire highly thought of around the league as a somewhat older, but up-and-coming head coach?

I don't remember it that well, but I think I heard talk that it was thought he did such a good job as an assistant coach working with D-men (Nashville was it?) that even outside of Buffalo he was a 'hot candidate' for head coaching jobs.

That was my recollection as well. And, my goodness, did he ever loose that team by the end of his tenure.

[Pimlach]

34 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Wasn't Housley at the time of his hire highly thought of around the league as a somewhat older, but up-and-coming head coach?

I don't remember it that well, but I think I heard talk that it was thought he did such a good job as an assistant coach working with D-men (Nashville was it?) that even outside of Buffalo he was a 'hot candidate' for head coaching jobs.

Not really.  He had high school coaching experience, and coached Team USA juniors for a stint. 

He then landed an assistant coach job at Nashville for about 3 years and got good credit for their very good defense.   

Did he deserve a shot?  Sure.    Top hot candidate?   I don't recall that, maybe.   I don't know of anyone else interviewed by the Sabres when they hired Housley.  

After Housley they hired Kruger, I read from some folks at SabreSpace that "the league" supported that hire, but what does that really mean?   Does the NHL have a list of recommendations for top candidates?   Why would an older former coach, one that moved away from the game, be on such a list?   

The NFL actually has real support for teams making coaching and FO changes.  One reason is for diversity as it gives qualified people a fair shot, but this practice actually helps all coaches and FO candidates.   Movement of NFL assistant coaches to other teams happens a lot, and it is a sign of a strong coaching tree and good organizational health.  You will attract the best young assistant coaches when they can join a successful organization, learn for a top HC, and still have a path to promotion, even it is with another team.  

Edited Thursday at 03:45 PM by Pimlach

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

Pegula has long refused the model of having a president of hockey operations because he likes the direct line to the GM. The results say it’s a 14-year mistake he needs to rethink, even if he’s still spooked by whatever version of events you believe happened 11 years ago with Pat LaFontaine. Pegula needs more veteran hockey minds, just like his team needs more veteran players.

@tom webster  The above quote is the missing ingredient. TM and Jbot were not out of left field hires like Adams, but they were also 1st time GMs without a proper veteran hockey person to consult with.  

[That Aud Smell]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@tom webster  The above quote is the missing ingredient. TM and Jbot were not out of left field hires like Adams, but they were also 1st time GMs without a proper veteran hockey person to consult with.  

there was some member of the old guard from Pittsburgh who was floating around early on. i remember seeing him at a STH event. i can't recall his name. he was a hockey guy. he always seemed lightly engaged.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

there was some member of the old guard from Pittsburgh who was floating around early on. i remember seeing him at a STH event. i can't recall his name. he was a hockey guy. he always seemed lightly engaged.

When he bought the team he hired Teb Black as team president (he worked for the Penguins) and Ken Sawyer (also from the Penguins), but both were financial guys.

I think I found what you were remembering.  In Jan 2014 they hired Craig Patrick as a special advisor.  He lasted a year.

Edited Thursday at 05:57 PM by GASabresIUFAN