The Athletic Agents Poll

[Brawndo]

The Athletic shared the results of Agents Poll. Some of the questions asked included the best and worst owners,  best and worse run franchises and how much Connor McDavid should make on his next deal.

Yes he was on the worst owner list, but came in at number two behind Tom Dundon

Carolina Hurricanes owner Tom Dundon ran away with this category — something that could raise some eyebrows, given the relative success of his organization.

What’s clear from agents’ comments is that this isn’t really about any specific business decision or issues with spending (a more common sentiment the last time we did this exercise in 2022). It’s more about Dundon’s communication and leadership style, with several describing him as overly involved.

“I don’t know how he has the time or the energy. He’s the de facto GM,” one agent said.

"A lot of people in our business hate it that Tom is so f---ing involved, and he is basically the manager and he has a lot of strong opinions, too, and he's not afraid to tell all of us privately those opinions."

"His GMs and assistant GMs ... have to ask him permission for anything," added another.

The idea that the owner’s involvement is affecting the culture was raised several times.

“They’ve got some smart people there, but you just feel their culture by not even working there, just being around it. And it’s not a great one.”

One agent joked: “The worst part of Dundon lapping the competition here is he’s probably proud of it.”

Buffalo’s Terry Pegula took the second spot in this category, but the comments were more focused on a perceived lack of involvement — and a lack of on-ice success.

“Buffalo has swung and missed a lot,” one agent noted.
 

He has not done anything,” another said of Pegula. “He’s in left field.”

 

The Sabres are at the top of worse run franchise list.

 

As most agents quipped at first, "This would have been easy a year ago — Arizona. Poor Billy (Armstrong) had his hands tied, but the rest was unstable as hell. Not anymore in Utah."

Forced to choose a new answer, most agents picked Buffalo due to more than a decade of struggles.

The Sabres haven’t made the playoffs since 2011. They haven’t won a playoff series since 2007. They’ve been rebuilding for what seems like forever. And they’re currently holding down last place in the Eastern Conference.

 

Buffalo has just decades of mediocrity and is just a mess,” one agent said.

[SwampD]

I would have killed for “mediocrity” this past decade.

[JustOneParade]

I found it interesting that the agent cites TP for a 'lack of involvement', which is completely opposite of the opinion of most on this board (myself included). 

Bigger picture is that the agents' poor opinion/perception of the Sabres organization is a huge problem. But I'm sure they will feel better if their clients sign here on an overpay.

[Flashsabre]

It’s almost like missing the playoffs for 14 straight years under one ownership forms a strong opinion from professional people in the league.😁

[Sidc3000]

I honestly never understood why everyone thought he was intimately involved in every single decision. 
 

Keeping the team as young as possible, hiring only first time GM’s/coaches, and having the GM’s on a very strict budget shows he doesn’t care much about the Sabres. His 100% focus is and will be always with the Bills. He knows that they can keep the Sabres fans believing enough that they will still pay so they can keep the lights on at the arena. 
 

 

 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, JustOneParade said:

I found it interesting that the agent cites TP for a 'lack of involvement', which is completely opposite of the opinion of most on this board (myself included). 

Bigger picture is that the agents' poor opinion/perception of the Sabres organization is a huge problem. But I'm sure they will feel better if their clients sign here on an overpay.

Lack of involvement can kinda mean the 'type' of involvement he has.  If he is not doing what other successful owners in the NHL are doing, then he's not involved enough (even though he may be involved, just in a different way.)

Not showing up to upper level meetings where you are constantly evaluating the people below you.  (We think he doesn't do that because he simply wants people to do what he says)

Not spending the time and effort to put together a well trained staff or simply hiring enough of them. (We think he doens't do that because he doesn't want to pay for that)

  He doesn't spend enough time with his 'hockey people', asking the right questions about the direction they are taking (We think that is becasue he set the direction and now he can sit back and let it go on autopilot, "no change" "the answers are in the room", no need to do anything)

He can not be involved enough in others eyes because he is not involved in the way most owners are....putting together complete staffs, making changes when needed, and demanding they excel at their jobs.  Why bother? if I critical decision needs to be made, he can just show up and ask his magic 8 ball himself.

Edited 1 hour ago by mjd1001

[JP51]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

I would have killed for “mediocrity” this past decade.

Mediocraty gets you in the playoffs most years as half of the teams make it.... more like abject ineptitude... 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

It’s almost like missing the playoffs for 14 straight years under one ownership forms a strong opinion from professional people in the league.😁

That's basically it. There are specific complaints about Dundon being too involved. But with Pegula it's "his team hasn't been good."

Curious about the "lack of involvement* comments about Terry 😂 considering how convinced some here are he's driving the bus. Maybe he needs to get MORE involved seeing how successful Tom Dundon is in NC. 🤪

[PromoTheRobot]

52 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Lack of involvement can kinda mean the 'type' of involvement he has.  If he is not doing what other successful owners in the NHL are doing, then he's not involved enough (even though he may be involved, just in a different way.)

Not showing up to upper level meetings where you are constantly evaluating the people below you.  (We think he doesn't do that because he simply wants people to do what he says)

Not spending the time and effort to put together a well trained staff or simply hiring enough of them. (We think he doens't do that because he doesn't want to pay for that)

  He doesn't spend enough time with his 'hockey people', asking the right questions about the direction they are taking (We think that is becasue he set the direction and now he can sit back and let it go on autopilot, "no change" "the answers are in the room", no need to do anything)

He can not be involved enough in others eyes because he is not involved in the way most owners are....putting together complete staffs, making changes when needed, and demanding they excel at their jobs.  Why bother? if I critical decision needs to be made, he can just show up and ask his magic 8 ball himself.

By that yardstick, is Terry Pegula a good football owner?

[Sidc3000]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

By that yardstick, is Terry Pegula a good football owner?

Good question. We don’t know. I believe he’s more visible with the Bills than the Sabres only because he’s seen at several games, he’s in the locker room for post game speeches, etc. 

 

[mjd1001]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

By that yardstick, is Terry Pegula a good football owner?

Football is much different. More complicated rosters, a lot more coaches, many more layers of management and coaches.

But to answer your question directly, I think he is better. Not a great owner, but better.  

The football organzation has so many more people in it, he had no choice but to fully staff it up.  Also, because it is a money-maker on a yearly basis (something the Sabres are likely not), he might mentally justify not cutting costs as much.

Oh, and with him wanting that new stadium, for the past few years he couldn't exactly run the organization on the cheap leading up to funding for it.

Finally, When the Sabres were his 'new toy' he spent money on them. He may not have known what he was doing, but he was spending money on renovating the KBC locker rooms, adding management pieces, bidding on Free agents.  Now that the Bills are his 'newer' toy, and the toy he gets more attention to....he spends money there, but most of those things he spent money on with the Sabres, not so much.

Everyone may not agree with this, but maybe he spends more 'time' talking to the GM about the roster and the players....as a substitute for spending money and hiring enough guys..or the right guys...to do it for him.  

4 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

Good question. We don’t know. I believe he’s more visible with the Bills than the Sabres only because he’s seen at several games, he’s in the locker room for post game speeches, etc. 

 

Yet at least early in each Sabres season, we video of him at Sabres practices sitting right next to Kevin Adams talking to him during practice.   Which goes back to my original point made above....it may not be HOW much attention he gives to each team, but is it the right kind of attention a good owner would give?

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, JustOneParade said:

I found it interesting that the agent cites TP for a 'lack of involvement', which is completely opposite of the opinion of most on this board (myself included). 

Bigger picture is that the agents' poor opinion/perception of the Sabres organization is a huge problem. But I'm sure they will feel better if their clients sign here on an overpay.

You can be “un-involved in the day to day”, but still put the franchise behind the eight ball.  For example TP tells his GM here is your internal salary cap, but allow the GM to spend it as he see fit.  

Another example could be simply saying the GM is not allowed to retain salary in any trades.  This isn’t day to day involvement, but it does handcuff the GM.

The two examples are how I feel TP meddles besides his terrible management hires, and so I think that’s what the agents mean.   Adams can make any hockey personnel decisions he wants in terms of contract $ and term and trade any prospect, player or pick as long as he doesn’t spend above x$ and doesn’t retain any salary to get the deals done.

 

[Sidc3000]

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Yet at least early in each Sabres season, we video of him at Sabres practices sitting right next to Kevin Adams talking to him during practice.   Which goes back to my original point made above....it may not be HOW much attention he gives to each team, but is it the right kind of attention a good owner would give?

Remember it was three years before he bought the Bills.

[mjd1001]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You can be “un-involved in the day to day”, but still put the franchise behind the eight ball.  For example TP tells his GM here is your internal salary cap, but allow the GM to spend it as he see fit.  

Another example could be simply saying the GM is not allowed to retain salary in any trades.  This isn’t day to day involvement, but it does handcuff the GM.

The two examples are how I feel TP meddles besides his terrible management hires, and so I think that’s what the agents mean.   Adams can make any hockey personnel decisions he wants in terms of contract $ and term and trade any prospect, player or pick as long as he doesn’t spend above x$ and doesn’t retain any salary to get the deals done.

 

I agree with most of what you said.   I also have an opinion that I have little to no proof for, but I sense its true.  I get the impression that Pegula is close to some players, he likes them personally, like the way a fan might really like a guy that he bought a jersey for.  And more than some 'business only' owners, Pegula wants things run by him and he is much more unlikely to approve a trade of guys who are his favorites.

Again, just a feeling, but I think some guys get a little more leeway for bad play, a little more is forgiven, because the 'guy upstairs' likes them.

[PromoTheRobot]

4 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree with most of what you said.   I also have an opinion that I have little to no proof for, but I sense its true.  I get the impression that Pegula is close to some players, he likes them personally, like the way a fan might really like a guy that he bought a jersey for.  And more than some 'business only' owners, Pegula wants things run by him and he is much more unlikely to approve a trade of guys who are his favorites.

Again, just a feeling, but I think some guys get a little more leeway for bad play, a little more is forgiven, because the 'guy upstairs' likes them.

There were numerous reports that he was close to Zemgus. 

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

There were numerous reports that he was close to Zemgus. 

And it appears Zemgus lasted here a lot longer than many fans thought/wanted. Also, I do beleive there was a report that they Sabres did try to bring him back, wasn't there an offer on the table for him to come back again, but he decided it was time to move on?

It is my feeling that he is that way with Cozens. I remember one of the last interviews he did a few years ago that I saw, he mentioned a bunch of players but Cozens kept being brought up over and over. I'm paraphasing here, but he was talking about the good young guys and he said someting like...Cozens and Dalin and Thompson and Cozens and our draft picks, and Cozens. (I'm exaggerating a bit but it felt like that). Eliotte Friedman was on one of the insider shows on 590 out of Toronto a couple years ago when I was driving home from work and he said his 'info' was the Pegula was a major force in getting Thompson and Cozens locked up to those 7 year deals...Plus I keep thinking back to the heritage classic and not only did Cozens stop by Pegula after being ejected but how they talked there for quite a bit of time.

Its not exactly Pegula 'meddling', but when the big boss who pays the bills wants something done, I guess you get it done or you don't mess with what he wants.