Trump and Ukraine

[LGR4GM]

We need to split this off. Trump told Zelensky he would send troops to Ukraine if Zelensky turned over rights to 50% of the rare earth minerals Ukraine possesses. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trump-officials-us-owning-half-ukraine-rare-earth-minerals-rcna192325

Zelensky has declined. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/zelenskyy-tells-aides-reject-trump-pitch-ukraine-mineral-reserves-rcna192426

On top of that, European Leaders are having an emergency meeting because Trump is making deals with Putin without any input. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/european-macron-paris-trump-ukraine-zelenskyy-putin-war-peace-rcna192437

Quote

The talks come a day before U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is due to meet with Russian officials in Saudi Arabia in discussions that exclude Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who is currently in the neighboring United Arab Emirates on a scheduled trip to boost humanitarian support for Ukraine, officials said.

Quote

France's minister of foreign affairs indicated Sunday that discussions were underway on the deployment of French, British and Polish troops — the countries possess three of Europe's biggest armies — to guarantee a future ceasefire in Ukraine.

 

Edited Monday at 04:00 PM by LGR4GM

[Hank]

NATO forces in the Ukraine will be interesting. I'm intrigued. 

[LGR4GM]

Rumblings around the internet that Trump will concede to pull US forces out of the Balkans while there is also evidence that Putin plans to advance further west than Ukraine. Trump is currently employing the same poor negotiating tactic he used with the Taliban, where he starts by giving a bunch of stuff and then has no more leverage.

My best guess is that Trump won't get the 50% concession for rare earth minerals from Zelensky so he will instead agree to Putin's demands in order to get some sort of concession the mineral rights. The rare earth minerals and natural resources are really what Trump and Musk are after. 

[Hank]

32 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Rumblings around the internet that Trump will concede to pull US forces out of the Balkans while there is also evidence that Putin plans to advance further west than Ukraine. Trump is currently employing the same poor negotiating tactic he used with the Taliban, where he starts by giving a bunch of stuff and then has no more leverage.

My best guess is that Trump won't get the 50% concession for rare earth minerals from Zelensky so he will instead agree to Putin's demands in order to get some sort of concession the mineral rights. The rare earth minerals and natural resources are really what Trump and Musk are after. 

I agree with you on the bolded. 

[LGR4GM]

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-riyadh-talks-trump-putin-rubio-0c3beebfef5839e9d509ff58239a6bc5

“Should this conflict come to an acceptable end, the incredible opportunities that exist to partner with the Russians geopolitically on issues of common interest and frankly, economically on issues that hopefully will be good for the world and also improve our relations in the long term,” Rubio said."

See,  it's about money and resources. That's why the European and Ukrainian delegates weren't invited. 

[SABRES 0311]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-riyadh-talks-trump-putin-rubio-0c3beebfef5839e9d509ff58239a6bc5

“Should this conflict come to an acceptable end, the incredible opportunities that exist to partner with the Russians geopolitically on issues of common interest and frankly, economically on issues that hopefully will be good for the world and also improve our relations in the long term,” Rubio said."

See,  it's about money and resources. That's why the European and Ukrainian delegates weren't invited. 

Yes, the U.S. is positioning itself to reap post war benefits after providing $69 Billion supporting Ukraine. I think Ukraine needs to be a part of future peace talks.

With Ukraine losing ground Zelensky’s bargaining position is probably not strong. With the previous U.S. administration not doing much of anything diplomatically, these talks are at ground zero.

 

[LGR4GM]

9 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Yes, the U.S. is positioning itself to reap post war benefits after providing $69 Billion supporting Ukraine. I think Ukraine needs to be a part of future peace talks.

With Ukraine losing ground Zelensky’s bargaining position is probably not strong. With the previous U.S. administration not doing much of anything diplomatically, these talks are at ground zero.

 

Working with an aggressor to divide up the country they invaded and steal it from the ppl who live there is neither Democratic or what America should stand for. 

What should they have done? 

[SABRES 0311]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Working with an aggressor to divide up the country they invaded and steal it from the ppl who live there is neither Democratic or what America should stand for. 

What should they have done? 

Ukraine never got back Crimea after Russia annexed it during the Obama administration. Not saying Russia should be rewarded for what they have done but recent history indicates they are not getting that land back. 

The previous administration didn't do a whole lot diplomatically. For the most part it was supply money and weapons. I would like to have seen more of a push for peaceful resolution. Aside from Japan's unconditional surrender after dropping nukes, I can't remember the last time the U.S. received an unconditional surrender, especially from an adversary like Russia. I get the feeling the Biden administration just wanted to get through the term without having to do anything requiring effort.  

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Ukraine never got back Crimea after Russia annexed it during the Obama administration. Not saying Russia should be rewarded for what they have done but recent history indicates they are not getting that land back. 

The previous administration didn't do a whole lot diplomatically. For the most part it was supply money and weapons. I would like to have seen more of a push for peaceful resolution. Aside from Japan's unconditional surrender after dropping nukes, I can't remember the last time the U.S. received an unconditional surrender, especially from an adversary like Russia. I get the feeling the Biden administration just wanted to get through the term without having to do anything requiring effort.  

They along with the rest of the world basically, put massive sanctions on Russia which has had large impacts on their economy. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60125659

I believe you are saying Russia should be rewarded or at least your attitude seems to be "oh well, sucks for them but wrap it up"

Trump is the first world leader of note to speak with Putin since his invasion began. Again, what do you want Trump to do? Accept where-ever the front is now and say "okay Putin, you can keep all that territory and cut us in for half the rare earth minerals and we are good"? because that is where we are headed. That gives Putin the time and space he wants to invade further west, such as Poland. I would bet he gets a concession from Trump that he won't backup NATO considering the rumor that withdrawing troops from the Balkans has already been heavily rumored. 

Edited Tuesday at 07:11 PM by LGR4GM

[SABRES 0311]

38 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

They along with the rest of the world basically, put massive sanctions on Russia which has had large impacts on their economy. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60125659

I believe you are saying Russia should be rewarded or at least your attitude seems to be "oh well, sucks for them but wrap it up"

Trump is the first world leader of note to speak with Putin since his invasion began. Again, what do you want Trump to do? Accept where-ever the front is now and say "okay Putin, you can keep all that territory and cut us in for half the rare earth minerals and we are good"? because that is where we are headed. That gives Putin the time and space he wants to invade further west, such as Poland. I would bet he gets a concession from Trump that he won't backup NATO considering the rumor that withdrawing troops from the Balkans has already been heavily rumored. 

What do you want Trump to do? Continue funding a losing war and authorizing ATTACMs and similar weapons to be fired into Russia.

It’s Ukraine’s land so they should be part of the conversations. I’m not disputing that. The U.S. has given a lot money and arms and they’re still reportedly losing ground. Putin doesn’t look like he will back down and give everything back. 

I believe what you are saying the conflict should continue and at some point progress into full war with U.S. forces.

BYW, Poland is a NATO country and Ukraine is not. If Putin is that dumb then we’ll be having a very different conversation. Until then the idea Russia will invade a NATO country knowing it will result in Article 5 invocation seems like a stretch. But if he is that dumb then he learns FAFO.

To answer the question I want Trump to mediate a peace deal that results in Crimea and eastern Ukraine returned to Ukraine. Then, I want Trump to get a deal where the U.S. can make back some of that $68 Billion. I doubt all of that happens.

Edited Tuesday at 07:51 PM by SABRES 0311

[JujuFish]

It's so amusing seeing conservatives simp for Putin.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

What do you want Trump to do? Continue funding a losing war and authorizing ATTACMs and similar weapons to be fired into Russia.

It’s Ukraine’s land so they should be part of the conversations. I’m not disputing that. The U.S. has given a lot money and arms and they’re still reportedly losing ground. Putin doesn’t look like he will back down and give everything back. 

I believe what you are saying the conflict should continue and at some point progress into full war with U.S. forces.

BYW, Poland is a NATO country and Ukraine is not. If Putin is that dumb then we’ll be having a very different conversation. Until then the idea Russia will invade a NATO country knowing it will result in Article 5 invocation seems like a stretch. But if he is that dumb then he learns FAFO.

To answer the question I want Trump to mediate a peace deal that results in Crimea and eastern Ukraine returned to Ukraine. Then, I want Trump to get a deal where the U.S. can make back some of that $68 Billion. I doubt all of that happens.

Tbh, I don't think Trump will defend Poland or all NATO countries. I think that could be part of the negotiations. "Hey, you can take Poland and the Balkans and we'll stay out of it as long as we get our rare earth minerals." 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Tbh, I don't think Trump will defend Poland or all NATO countries. I think that could be part of the negotiations. "Hey, you can take Poland and the Balkans and we'll stay out of it as long as we get our rare earth minerals." 

Poland has been spending more than the NATO minimums of their GDP on their military for several years now and in 2025, they’re expected to spend 5%. They are a people, like every Eastern European country, that remembers quite well their history of Russian tanks rolling across their homeland. 

Poland won’t wait for Russia to march across Ukraine on its way to their borders. They will not hesitate to go on the offensive at the first sign of more Russian aggression. And for good reason. And the Western Europe won’t hesitate to invoke Article 5 of the treaty.

Russia is a shadow of its former self as a military after years of Putin and the oligarchs he controls having bled their treasury for the last 25 years. Question is, is Putin too much of an megalomaniac to recognize it. 

[SABRES 0311]

3 hours ago, JujuFish said:

It's so amusing seeing conservatives simp for Putin.

Nobody is simping for Putin. A deeper understanding of the situation is required to see that.

[SABRES 0311]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Tbh, I don't think Trump will defend Poland or all NATO countries. I think that could be part of the negotiations. "Hey, you can take Poland and the Balkans and we'll stay out of it as long as we get our rare earth minerals." 

All I am saying is that there is more to the situation than simply saying Russia needs to get out of Ukraine. The areas where Russia has focused their operations has a bit of pro-Russian populace. If a third country goes in we are introducing a new variable. In Iraq/Afghanistan, foreign fighters from all over flocked into those countries to fight us. The U.S. is a magnet for state and non-state sponsored entities who want to fight. If the war in Ukraine gets to the point where the U.S. has to send in forces, especially on a large scale, I think we end up with an insurgency made up of foreign and Ukranian people.

On top of that, Russia would probably mass their forces. Ukranian forces would likely be fighting against their own pro-Russian countrymen. Essentially you have a civil war, insurgency, and increased threat of nuclear war. The preferable option is Russia leaves Ukraine and returns all of the land they took but does anyone think Putin will do that. That DOES NOT mean we bow down to Putin. This country has a proud history of taking the fight to guys like him.

If after all else fails, there is no other option then at least we know we tried to resolve this conflict and are using military force as it should be. Keep in mind it would be our children/grandchildren going into the aforementioned. So, if initial talks are not to our liking now that doesn't mean a final agreement will be that.

[JujuFish]

50 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Nobody is simping for Putin. A deeper understanding of the situation is required to see that.

Remind me again, who paid reparations after World War II? Was it our allies?

And we now have Trump blaming Ukraine for the war. As if it couldn't be any more obvious that he is completely corrupt and under Putin's thumb.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-ukraine-should-never-have-started-it-remarks-war-russia-rcna192710

[SABRES 0311]

1 minute ago, JujuFish said:

Remind me again, who paid reparations after World War II? Was it our allies?

Germany paid the bulk of reparations. Not seeing where you are going with that. If you think my take on the Ukraine war is wrong, try explaining it.

BTW, following WWII the west split Germany with Russia/Soviet Union who became our Cold War adversary. Today we maintain trade and diplomatic relations with China who is literally moving to supplant the U.S. as the world's superpower. They are also claiming land that is not theirs (sound familiar), dangerously harassing civilian vessels, and present a threat of invasion to Taiwan.

[JujuFish]

2 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Germany paid the bulk of reparations. Not seeing where you are going with that.

Oh, so we didn't get our allies to pay us for the money we spent on World War II? We got them from the aggressor nation instead? And you want to get reparations from Ukraine, not Russia?

 

And you say you're not simping for Russia?

 

Huh, odd. Could have fooled me.

[LGR4GM]

58 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

All I am saying is that there is more to the situation than simply saying Russia needs to get out of Ukraine. The areas where Russia has focused their operations has a bit of pro-Russian populace. If a third country goes in we are introducing a new variable. In Iraq/Afghanistan, foreign fighters from all over flocked into those countries to fight us. The U.S. is a magnet for state and non-state sponsored entities who want to fight. If the war in Ukraine gets to the point where the U.S. has to send in forces, especially on a large scale, I think we end up with an insurgency made up of foreign and Ukranian people.

On top of that, Russia would probably mass their forces. Ukranian forces would likely be fighting against their own pro-Russian countrymen. Essentially you have a civil war, insurgency, and increased threat of nuclear war. The preferable option is Russia leaves Ukraine and returns all of the land they took but does anyone think Putin will do that. That DOES NOT mean we bow down to Putin. This country has a proud history of taking the fight to guys like him.

If after all else fails, there is no other option then at least we know we tried to resolve this conflict and are using military force as it should be. Keep in mind it would be our children/grandchildren going into the aforementioned. So, if initial talks are not to our liking now that doesn't mean a final agreement will be that.

I personally think trump will bow down to putin because he doesn't care, he just wants the mineral rights and more money. 

I also reject your insurgency claim. If there are pro Russian Ukrainians, they are already fighting for Russia and should be considered Russians. We'd already be seeing evidence of a insurgency all over Ukraine. It's different than Afghanistan. 

Edited Wednesday at 12:57 AM by LGR4GM

[K-9]

25 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I personally think trump will bow down to putin because he doesn't care, he just wants the mineral rights and more money. 

I also reject your insurgency claim. If there are pro Russian Ukrainians, they are already fighting for Russia and should be considered Russians. We'd already be seeing evidence of a insurgency all over Ukraine. It's different than Afghanistan. 

Another big difference is that, unlike in Afghanistan where much of the populace saw us as invaders, the vast majority of Ukrainian people would see us as liberators. But I have a hunch other NATO countries won’t wait on us, especially those four that share a border with Ukraine. Like I said before Europeans, especially Eastern Europeans, know their history well. And our military advisers, along with those of other countries have, been in Ukraine since before Russia invaded. 

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Another big difference is that, unlike in Afghanistan where much of the populace saw us as invaders, the vast majority of Ukrainian people would see us as liberators. But I have a hunch other NATO countries won’t wait on us, especially those four that share a border with Ukraine. Like I said before Europeans, especially Eastern Europeans, know their history well. And our military advisers, along with those of other countries have, been in Ukraine since before Russia invaded. 

My understanding is the Polish hate the Russians. 

[SABRES 0311]

48 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I personally think trump will bow down to putin because he doesn't care, he just wants the mineral rights and more money. 

I also reject your insurgency claim. If there are pro Russian Ukrainians, they are already fighting for Russia and should be considered Russians. We'd already be seeing evidence of an insurgency all over Ukraine. It's different than Afghanistan. 

That is 100% incorrect. Once the U.S. puts ground forces in Ukraine foreign fighters will make their way there.

[SABRES 0311]

21 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Another big difference is that, unlike in Afghanistan where much of the populace saw us as invaders, the vast majority of Ukrainian people would see us as liberators. But I have a hunch other NATO countries won’t wait on us, especially those four that share a border with Ukraine. Like I said before Europeans, especially Eastern Europeans, know their history well. And our military advisers, along with those of other countries have, been in Ukraine since before Russia invaded. 

It’s not the European citizens that would produce an insurgency. Russia maintains strong ties with Iran who is a state sponsor of extremist organizations such Hezbollah and the Muslim Brotherhood.

If anyone thinks Russia wouldn’t leverage that when things go south against the west then I believe they’re wrong.

[LGR4GM]

He's going to sell Ukraine out and is already blaming Ukraine for the war Russia started. It's literally a Russian talking point. If Russia goes the ***** home, the war ends. Trumps going to give away tons to appeasement. Won't be surprised if we see an invasion of Poland within 2 years. 

 

 

[SABRES 0311]

2 hours ago, JujuFish said:

Oh, so we didn't get our allies to pay us for the money we spent on World War II? We got them from the aggressor nation instead? And you want to get reparations from Ukraine, not Russia?

 

And you say you're not simping for Russia?

 

Huh, odd. Could have fooled me.

I don’t think you understand what reparations are. Reparations are payments made as a result of damage. Leveraging $69 Billion spent supporting another country’s war effort to strike a deal for access to rare earth metals is a trade agreement. 

It’s funny how you delete the other half of my quoted post to support your claim I support Russia. By your apparent definition the U.S. has been “simping” for China for decades. We maintain diplomatic and economic ties with the country who intends on supplanting the U.S. But I guess leaving that in doesn’t help your false narrative on me. 😂